No Time To Die: Production Diary

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  • Goldeneye0094Goldeneye0094 Conyers, GA
    Posts: 464
    Perhaps the announcement will drop tomorrow
  • jake24jake24 Sitting at your desk, kissing your lover, eating supper with your familyModerator
    Posts: 10,584
    Perhaps the announcement will drop tomorrow
    Do not expect an announcement the second May hits.
  • Posts: 14,781
    If we're still on track for November 2019, I'd say we should get some solid news sooner than later.
    Craig did recently say Bond was up next for him, so I doubt we're looking at a delay.
  • jake24jake24 Sitting at your desk, kissing your lover, eating supper with your familyModerator
    edited April 2018 Posts: 10,584
    ToTheRight wrote: »
    If we're still on track for November 2019, I'd say we should get some solid news sooner than later.
    Craig did recently say Bond was up next for him, so I doubt we're looking at a delay.
    Good point. Surely Craig knew of the impending pregnancy during that interview. What worries me most is the lack of distributor. What the hell is going on?
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    jake24 wrote: »
    ToTheRight wrote: »
    If we're still on track for November 2019, I'd say we should get some solid news sooner than later.
    Craig did recently say Bond was up next for him, so I doubt we're looking at a delay.
    Good point. Surely Craig knew of the impending pregnancy during that interview. What worries me most is the lack of distributor. What the hell is going on?
    It's most likely linked to a potential sale. These sort of deals take time to work out due to the due diligence. We'll get the big announcement eventually once they sort it out, if a sale or not.
  • DonnyDB5DonnyDB5 Buffalo, New York
    Posts: 1,755
    At this rate, we’d be lucky if we get an announcement in May & that is very sad.
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 6,523
    FoxRox wrote: »
    patb wrote: »
    Its interesting to look back at when I was fifteen and think about who were the main movie heroes and what were the big series? I was a big Bond fan back then as were my friends (I remember trying to make a golden gun out of a gold pen and cigar lighter and sticky tape borrowed from my dad !). Star Wars had just started and Raiders was made when I was sixteen.

    Now my son is fifteen. From his perspective, there is so much more going on. So many movies to see and more series (Star Wars, MI, Marvel, Jurrasic, any Rock movies etc etc)
    Looking at his social media chat etc, Marvel is THE series that is being discussed.

    IF my son is representative of future movie fans, the EON should be concerned. The whole legacy that we love to discuss in minute detail means nothing to him and his friends.

    I feel like Bond is becoming less and less relevant in the modern era. SF was a hit, granted, but from SP onwards the excitement for it has died down tremendously, and many seem quite tired of Bond. For whatever reason, Bond is less of a big deal than it used to be. Could be after SP many people, myself included, felt like the series was running out of energy and fresh ideas. I’m hopeful Bond 25 can be a hit and restore the hype and excitement Bond used to bring to the masses.

    When you say "many seem quite tired of Bond", who are the "many"? I mean, apart from a vocal minority on this site?

    Bond has, and will always have a (mainly) different audience than Marvel.

    Apart from this site-- which seems to have a small group suffering the same, collective sickness-- where is the excitement for Bond dying down?

    In fact, in the last 40 years, when has Bond risen to a fever-pitch in between films???

    When B25 is released, there will be a healthy excitement in the general audiences again (they won't remember SP. Only we here obsess over the failures of that film; the general audience won't remember squat, other than it being a Bond film).

    SP went for something and didn't quite make it. But it still made over $800 million.

    And when 25 is released, most of those same groups will see this new film too.

    As for Bond being less of a big deal, where have we heard this before? In the 70s, where 007 wouldn't get out alive? Or the 90s where he was no longer relevant (oh, wait...)

    Bond survived major blows.

    SP was a hiccup in comparison.

    Everything is fine, and when 25 is released, everyone on this site who may be ringing hands or are overly critical will STILL line up to watch it five or six times in the theatre-- along with the general audience who will always watch a new Bond film (coz it's embedded and passed down from generation to generation unlike any other franchise (that isn't named Star Wars... and even then...))

  • Posts: 4,541
    I think it's easy to assume that Bond is passed from generation to generation but, in my personal experience, I see no evidence of this. I do wonder if EON have done any research regarding how younger movie fans percieve Bond. My gut reaction is that the franchise is regarded as being old, "fuddy duddy" and uncool by young fans who prefer the lighter action, wit and fun of other series. And I'm not sure if this will be helped by an actor over 50 playing the key role.

    The idea that an "audience will always watch a new Bond film" is exactly the type of arrogance that competitors will lap up. If Bond is to survive, it has to grab the imagination and engage young fans.
  • Posts: 14,781
    patb wrote: »
    I think it's easy to assume that Bond is passed from generation to generation but, in my personal experience, I see no evidence of this. I do wonder if EON have done any research regarding how younger movie fans percieve Bond. My gut reaction is that the franchise is regarded as being old, "fuddy duddy" and uncool by young fans who prefer the lighter action, wit and fun of other series. And I'm not sure if this will be helped by an actor over 50 playing the key role.

    The idea that an "audience will always watch a new Bond film" is exactly the type of arrogance that competitors will lap up. If Bond is to survive, it has to grab the imagination and engage young fans.

    Well said. Engage young fans, yet not alienate the older fans as well. When the films are released on a regular schedule, they can gradually, and more naturally achieve that.
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 6,523
    I'm sorry for sounding arrogant, @patb . Of course, Bond will need to craft a great story, that goes without saying. They will not be able to serve us something that stinks. But you see, they already know that.

    EoN historically always seems to learn from their mistakes.

    I have faith that the professionals on this job will deliver 25 as something better than you, me, and everyone on this site could ever deliver.

    But again, that's just a guess on my part..

  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 6,523
    what worries me about appealing to the "young fans" can be found in the poster on this site, advertising the screening of TB:

    https://avrovulcan.com/events/secret-cinema-at-the-vulcan

    Talk about the Disney-fication of 007. Wow, just wow... No... 007 has been passed down generationally (I've seen Bond films in different cities: young, old, male and female are always comfortably present).

    Bond doesn't need to chase youth outside of how it's been done since the beginning... Telling great stories of escapism...
  • edited May 2018 Posts: 2,115
    From 2015: The family model (Eon) vs. the corporate model (Marvel).

    https://spycommandfeatures.wordpress.com/the-family-model-eon-vs-the-corporate-model-marvel/

    And:
    Marvel Studios and the Cubby Broccoli playbook.

    https://hmssweblog.wordpress.com/2015/04/24/marvel-studios-and-the-cubby-broccoli-playbook/
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded Riding a white swan to Matera
    Posts: 12,436
    I don't want Marvel touching Bond. If and when ths series is sold off, I don't want it going to comic superhero franchise outfits.
  • BennyBenny Classified Administrator, Moderator
    Posts: 13,110
    Bond is still an event movie. It's a unique series, the likes of which produce a wide fan base.
    People will go and see a Bond film because it's a 'Bond film'
    Maybe the longer delays between films is to help make the next film more of an event.
  • ClarkDevlinClarkDevlin Martinis, Girls and Guns
    Posts: 15,423
    The only thing I'd like from the Bond franchise is for them to go back to their two-year schedule. No, I don't want Danjaq churning out three Bond films per a year until it becomes boring. Bond is not a superhero franchise. He's only in his own universe that doesn't share any events with other franchises, so let's leave it at that. But, I don't want them releasing only two or perhaps even one Bond film per a decade. Like Marvel did in the 2000s, they should craft a set of storylines and plan a decade ahead in order to keep things going. They have been suffering through this dilemma since the 1980s when they ran out of Fleming novels/titles to adapt.
  • MurdockMurdock Mr. 2000
    Posts: 16,183
    +1
  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe Given the circumstances
    Posts: 7,346
    The beauty of Bond is that you don't need to craft the storylines in advance. How could you anticipate the trends anyway? Octopussy has a strong influence of Indiana Jones to it, but if the script was written in 1973 there would be no way of predicting Indiana Jones would happen. Bond is best when it's capturing the moment.
  • ClarkDevlinClarkDevlin Martinis, Girls and Guns
    Posts: 15,423
    The beauty of Bond is that you don't need to craft the storylines in advance. How could you anticipate the trends anyway? Octopussy has a strong influence of Indiana Jones to it, but if the script was written in 1973 there would be no way of predicting Indiana Jones would happen. Bond is best when it's capturing the moment.
    I disagree. You can craft Bond storylines ahead of its time, as some have been evidenced before. The biggest example is that of The Quasimodo Gambit, a Bond comic that was written in 1989 but wasn't published until 1996, which was incredibly relevant for its time. Bond doesn't have to play with the current geopolitical climate whatsoever. They should craft a main story treatment including the MacGuffin, the characters and the outcomes, then adjust them to the times they are set to deliver the things in.
  • MurdockMurdock Mr. 2000
    Posts: 16,183
    I disagree. You can craft Bond storylines ahead of its time, as some have been evidenced before. The biggest example is that of The Quasimodo Gambit, a Bond comic that was written in 1989 but wasn't published until 1996, which was incredibly relevant for its time. Bond doesn't have to play with the current geopolitical climate whatsoever. They should craft a main story treatment including the MacGuffin, the characters and the outcomes, then adjust them to the times they are set to deliver the things in.

    Agreed. Plus today's current events don't really leave much to desire in terms of a good Bond story. Craig's era has tried to cover relevant current events but didn't really do anything with them. Quantum wants Bolivia's water? Oh killing Greene will stop that! Or not? We never really find out.

    Oh no Spectre wants to watch over the world. Blowing up the base in Morocco and hacking Denbighs computer stopped that! Or not? We never really find out.
  • ClarkDevlinClarkDevlin Martinis, Girls and Guns
    Posts: 15,423
    Murdock wrote: »
    I disagree. You can craft Bond storylines ahead of its time, as some have been evidenced before. The biggest example is that of The Quasimodo Gambit, a Bond comic that was written in 1989 but wasn't published until 1996, which was incredibly relevant for its time. Bond doesn't have to play with the current geopolitical climate whatsoever. They should craft a main story treatment including the MacGuffin, the characters and the outcomes, then adjust them to the times they are set to deliver the things in.

    Agreed. Plus today's current events don't really leave much to desire in terms of a good Bond story. Craig's era has tried to cover relevant current events but didn't really do anything with them. Quantum wants Bolivia's water? Oh killing Greene will stop that! Or not? We never really find out.

    Oh no Spectre wants to watch over the world. Blowing up the base in Morocco and hacking Denbighs computer stopped that! Or not? We never really find out.
    +1. Thank you!

    Very well said.
  • MurdockMurdock Mr. 2000
    Posts: 16,183
    My pleasure good man.
  • marketto007marketto007 Brazil
    edited May 2018 Posts: 3,273
           
  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe Given the circumstances
    Posts: 7,346
    Nice, but we probably won't get a press conference until December AT THE EARLIEST.
  • Posts: 4,541
    People saying they dont want Bond to be owned by Marvel and Bond is not a super hero have perhaps missed the point. Its nothing to do with the that. It's the way the content is managed and presented to the public.

    Consumers today have a short attention span and we live in a culture that moves fast with the online media having an appetite for constant titbits to keep the momentum going. This applies not only to movies but other products and brands.

    I think any brand is making things really hard for themselves: to effective drop off of the radar and then have to rebuild the interest every 4 or 5 years. Compared to an alternative business model where you never actual leave the media arena.

    When you consider that Iron Man came out in 2008 and, in ten years, they have done a superb job of building the brand to the point where it now outguns Star Wars in terms of opening weekend.

    Put it another way: If you had a brand new movie series to launch and manage, which team would you rather handle your product? The team at Marvel or EON?

  • Posts: 1,162
    peter wrote: »
    what worries me about appealing to the "young fans" can be found in the poster on this site, advertising the screening of TB:

    https://avrovulcan.com/events/secret-cinema-at-the-vulcan

    Talk about the Disney-fication of 007. Wow, just wow... No... 007 has been passed down generationally (I've seen Bond films in different cities: young, old, male and female are always comfortably present).

    Bond doesn't need to chase youth outside of how it's been done since the beginning... Telling great stories of escapism...

    Still the fact remains that no era featured less escapism then this one. Not to mention the quality of the last two scripts. Not to mention a star who looks to many youngsters like their grandfather.
  • RC7RC7
    edited May 2018 Posts: 10,512
    patb wrote: »
    People saying they dont want Bond to be owned by Marvel and Bond is not a super hero have perhaps missed the point. Its nothing to do with the that. It's the way the content is managed and presented to the public.

    Consumers today have a short attention span and we live in a culture that moves fast with the online media having an appetite for constant titbits to keep the momentum going. This applies not only to movies but other products and brands.

    I think any brand is making things really hard for themselves: to effective drop off of the radar and then have to rebuild the interest every 4 or 5 years. Compared to an alternative business model where you never actual leave the media arena.

    When you consider that Iron Man came out in 2008 and, in ten years, they have done a superb job of building the brand to the point where it now outguns Star Wars in terms of opening weekend.

    Put it another way: If you had a brand new movie series to launch and manage, which team would you rather handle your product? The team at Marvel or EON?

    The studios have made ‘Brand’ and $$$ so central to their M.O. that they’ve (very cleverly) fooled fans into becoming brand prophets, who don’t only tow the party line, but actively spread the word. You’re a good example. The argument between fans now is about social media ‘buzz’, opening weekends, brand diversification, spin offs, crossovers...

    This used to be the domain of brand managers, but they’ve now brainwashed people like yourself into doing it for them. For some fans it’s now less and less about the personal experience and more about the shared, (perceived) success. Targets have been hit, the $$$ are rolling in, everything has been wrapped up in a nice little bow and we can all celebrate a mediocre film cleverly masquerading as a great film, because there’s so much going on to divert attention.

  • edited May 2018 Posts: 4,541
    Well we are moving from Bond into the specifics of marketing but, anyone who invests in a brand by default, becomes a brand representative. Thats the whole essence of branding. Most of the time this works and there is no reason why Bond as a brand should be excluded from this.

    Yes, building up excitement for "event movies" does work and thats why they keep doing it. But, I also think that there needs to be substance to keep the momentum going. Kermode writes about this in one of his books. There is not reason why event movies cant also be great movies. They are not mutually exclusive.

    TLJ was a good example of a massive event movie but, eventually, people realised that the content did not live up to expectations (same with SP). I was the exact opposite of a brand profit for TLJ, my anger is still strong. Thats the danger when you create a strong brand. The fans become so emotionally invested that, if you make a mistake (or a perceived one), its blows up in your face (Coke recipe change for example)

    Hard cold cash is not perceived success. It is success. Obviously, we all have our opinons re the artistic merit of a movie. That is where the perception comes in.

    I know many hate the hype and marketing around movies but, it works. But, in the long term, the hype dies away and a movie either stands or falls on it's own merits. This applies to all movies IMHO.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited May 2018 Posts: 23,883
    Box office is one thing. If a film resonates with the majority of the viewing public, then it will create outsize gross (even if not net) returns. Sometimes it can even be a phenomenon. SF is a perfect example of this. The film became a cultural event of sorts at the end of 2012 going into 2013. Does every Bond film need to be an SF, or to generate SF type grosses? No, I don't think so. That shouldn't be a requirement. Why? Well, it's difficult to maintain that level of success. If that becomes what one is shooting for, then two things are going to inevitably happen. Either one will fail to achieve that result (witness SP), and the film will be considered a disappointment, or one will be forced to tailor the films to accommodate the widest possible viewing audience, thereby risking diluting the essence in order to make a return. Thankfully that hasn't happen with Bond yet, although certain PC driven signals in recent films are distressing for this viewer.

    Quality of a film is a different thing entirely, and that of course is in the eye of the beholder. It's not so much an objective assessment, although even there one can use certain metrics (e.g. RT aggregate data) to assess if a film has hit a spot with critics and even viewers. Word of mouth and recommendations after the fact (and after the hype has died down) is another way to determine quality. There are some films which viewers here think highly of and even today comment positively on. The Dirty Harry films are a perfect example, and have their own thread. There are other examples of course.

    Regarding Marvel, I can only speak for myself: I'm not all that concerned about how much money those films make. It's a useful statistic. That's all. I like numbers, so I'm interested in how they perform at a cursory level. I'm not an MCU fanatic and I don't have the same passion for the franchise as I do for Bond. Not by a long shot. However, I am very impressed with the creativity that they have shown. They are succeeding for me (despite my increasingly high expectations) because they are delivering a quality product - a product which brings to life the characters from the comics, and focuses on developing those characters in an authentic fashion which resonates with me. So while I wasn't entirely enthused with their roster before they started, I have increasingly become so. That is a sign of a team that knows what it's doing, because I can be quite critical of rubbish. Am I a fan of everything they do? Not really. I thought BP was alright but a part of me can't understand the success it's received. Having said that, I can't fault it as a film. It just wasn't entirely for me.

    I am not as enthused for the upcoming Bond film based on what I know at present. Of course I'll still go and see it. I've been a life long fan since I was about 8 & he's my favourite character and franchise. However, I am more looking forward to what comes after the next one. Why? Well, I just think it's time. This continuity infested iteration has run its course in my view. It's played out imho. I can appreciate that his fans disagree, and that's fine. To each their own. For me it's not just a question of recasting, although that's a large part of it. Rather, it's a matter or reimagining. 'Soft rebooting' if you will. I think that is essential to Bond's continued appeal and success. Discarding the old and bringing in the new. That, more than anything, is what they do better than anyone else. Better than Marvel too (to date at least). After all, who here thinks that they will be able to find a Stark to replace RDJ or a Cap to replace Evans? I'm not confident of that because there is no history of them having done it successfully yet. Solo? Please. I have no such concerns with James Bond. One day he will return, and my enthusiasm will be restored.
  • BennyBenny Classified Administrator, Moderator
    Posts: 13,110
    The beauty of Bond is that you don't need to craft the storylines in advance. How could you anticipate the trends anyway? Octopussy has a strong influence of Indiana Jones to it, but if the script was written in 1973 there would be no way of predicting Indiana Jones would happen. Bond is best when it's capturing the moment.

    Where are the strong influences of Indiana Jones in Octopussy?
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    patb wrote: »
    Well we are moving from Bond into the specifics of marketing but, anyone who invests in a brand by default, becomes a brand representative. Thats the whole essence of branding. Most of the time this works and there is no reason why Bond as a brand should be excluded from this.

    Yes, building up excitement for "event movies" does work and thats why they keep doing it. But, I also think that there needs to be substance to keep the momentum going. Kermode writes about this in one of his books. There is not reason why event movies cant also be great movies. They are not mutually exclusive.

    TLJ was a good example of a massive event movie but, eventually, people realised that the content did not live up to expectations (same with SP). I was the exact opposite of a brand profit for TLJ, my anger is still strong. Thats the danger when you create a strong brand. The fans become so emotionally invested that, if you make a mistake (or a perceived one), its blows up in your face (Coke recipe change for example)

    Hard cold cash is not perceived success. It is success. Obviously, we all have our opinons re the artistic merit of a movie. That is where the perception comes in.

    I know many hate the hype and marketing around movies but, it works. But, in the long term, the hype dies away and a movie either stands or falls on it's own merits. This applies to all movies IMHO.

    Note I said Brand ‘prophet’, not representative. I’m talking of those with an unshakeable faith in a system. A system that doesn’t necessarily work for all.

    Also you miss my point about ‘perceived’ success. I’m talking about those for whom the value of box office, buzz, likes, shares etc... can outweigh (or mask) the merits of the film itself. The thrill is about the ‘product’ and the shared experience. It’s about a bigger canvas.

    A lot of Marvel hits this sweet spot - and good for them - but it’s not a long term strategy that would work for Bond Imo.
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