Was the SPECTRE reveal or the windsurfing and invisible car worse in your mind?

13»

Comments

  • Posts: 676
    Nothing ever will beat "Mommy was...verybad."
    Nothing.
    Ever.
    And second the rat speech which is the low point in the whole series.

    You mean in Skyfall? That was an awesome speech! I thought it was one of the highlights of Skyfall.
    Agreed.
    CountJohn wrote: »
    It's obviously the DAD stuff. It's pretty easy to ignore the brother reveal, whereas it's pretty much impossible to ignore a guy surfing in a tsunami.
    The actual reveal doesn't last too long, but what about all the references to the connection between Bond and Blofeld? The photos, Blofeld's speech in Rome, Moneypenny researching Oberhauser, Bond talking to Q at the clinic, Blofeld taunting Bond in MI6 ruins... I find it hard to ignore.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 I've missed you all.
    Posts: 28,417
    Milovy wrote: »
    Nothing ever will beat "Mommy was...verybad."
    Nothing.
    Ever.
    And second the rat speech which is the low point in the whole series.

    You mean in Skyfall? That was an awesome speech! I thought it was one of the highlights of Skyfall.
    Agreed.
    CountJohn wrote: »
    It's obviously the DAD stuff. It's pretty easy to ignore the brother reveal, whereas it's pretty much impossible to ignore a guy surfing in a tsunami.
    The actual reveal doesn't last too long, but what about all the references to the connection between Bond and Blofeld? The photos, Blofeld's speech in Rome, Moneypenny researching Oberhauser, Bond talking to Q at the clinic, Blofeld taunting Bond in MI6 ruins... I find it hard to ignore.

    Most of those moments aren'r there to point out the brother angel, though. Blofeld is burned from the photo, and it's only a visual to show that Bond knew Hannes as a child (who is the only other one visible there). Blofeld's speech in Rome is simply about he and Bond meeting again, as is the crater bit, and he says that because he was waiting for Bond to appear after so many years of colliding via Quantum, etc. Moneypenny researching Oberhauser is there to show us that Franz may not be dead, not that he and Bond had a history, and Bond and Q's talk at the clinic has the purpose of connecting the dots between the Quantum agents and SPECTRE, showing they are one and the same. The ending at the ruins is once again Blofeld torturing Bond, as he's a sadist and power hungry guy. He makes a comment about brothers pressing buttons, but that's the second and last mention of it beyond the throwaway line Blofeld tells Madeleine during Bond's torture chair incident. It's a pretty small size of a big pie.

    I think the script would've been better if the simple angle of Blofeld revenging himself on Bond for stopping Quantum was used, but at the same time I don't lose much sleep over it and it doesn't stop me from enjoying the film. Blofeld has never been iconic, so he's not this untouchable thing so many make him out to be. The best effort we got was with Savalas in OHMSS, but even that one isn't liable to be remembered by anyone but the fans. Goldfinger is the iconic one on a wide pop culture scale, as he's known for his actual personality and not just his appearance. People only know Blofeld via Austin Powers' parody of him, and even then all they know about him is the scar and the cat. Who he is as a character falls on deaf ears, and he doesn't even have a quotable line like Goldfinger's, "I expect you to die," to make him stay in your head. Not my definition of iconic, surely, and not untouchable.

    The Craig era has put a spin on many aspects of Bond, and this is just another one of those. I like this take on Blofeld as far as who he is as a character, so the personal angle won't soil that. I've been far more "offended" in the past at what Bond was been written to be like, or how the tone of a particular film was realized. But Blofeld? Not important enough to get me flamed. That aspect of SP has been largely ballooned and over-exaggerated, anyway. Bond stayed with Hannes for a short time after his parents died and left him orphaned, then off he went. The way people talk, you'd think the movie was telling us Bond and Blofeld each shared a teat coming out of the womb.
  • Posts: 676
    Hey Brady! Time for us to do the Spectre dance again! Let's get to it!
    Most of those moments aren'r there to point out the brother angel, though. Blofeld is burned from the photo, and it's only a visual to show that Bond knew Hannes as a child (who is the only other one visible there). Blofeld's speech in Rome is simply about he and Bond meeting again, as is the crater bit, and he says that because he was waiting for Bond to appear after so many years of colliding via Quantum, etc. Moneypenny researching Oberhauser is there to show us that Franz may not be dead, not that he and Bond had a history, and Bond and Q's talk at the clinic has the purpose of connecting the dots between the Quantum agents and SPECTRE, showing they are one and the same. The ending at the ruins is once again Blofeld torturing Bond, as he's a sadist and power hungry guy. He makes a comment about brothers pressing buttons, but that's the second and last mention of it beyond the throwaway line Blofeld tells Madeleine during Bond's torture chair incident. It's a pretty small size of a big pie.
    Hmm, I'm not sure I buy this. Yeah okay the photo indicates Bond and Blofeld knew each other as children... And why's that? Because they were step brothers! Perhaps you can interpret Blofeld's comments about "reunions" and "it's been a long time" and all that crap as Blofeld anticipating a "reunion" after Bond disrupted Quantum's plans in the past. But what about Bond's insistence to MP and Q that he knows Oberhauser? That is a direct reference to their childhood together. The only reason Bond knows Oberhauser is... wait for it... they were step brothers. It's not a minor point in the film, it's a major part of Bond's investigation into Oberhauser.
    I think the script would've been better if the simple angle of Blofeld revenging himself on Bond for stopping Quantum was used, but at the same time I don't lose much sleep over it and it doesn't stop me from enjoying the film.
    Agreed. For example in FRWL, SPECTRE wants to get personal revenge on Bond for interfering with Dr. No's operation. That would have been completely sufficient for the "personal" angle in SP.
    Blofeld has never been iconic, so he's not this untouchable thing so many make him out to be.
    Eh, I think many Bond fans would disagree with you (check out all the replies in this thread).
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    Milovy wrote: »
    Hey Brady! Time for us to do the Spectre dance again! Let's get to it!
    Most of those moments aren'r there to point out the brother angel, though. Blofeld is burned from the photo, and it's only a visual to show that Bond knew Hannes as a child (who is the only other one visible there). Blofeld's speech in Rome is simply about he and Bond meeting again, as is the crater bit, and he says that because he was waiting for Bond to appear after so many years of colliding via Quantum, etc. Moneypenny researching Oberhauser is there to show us that Franz may not be dead, not that he and Bond had a history, and Bond and Q's talk at the clinic has the purpose of connecting the dots between the Quantum agents and SPECTRE, showing they are one and the same. The ending at the ruins is once again Blofeld torturing Bond, as he's a sadist and power hungry guy. He makes a comment about brothers pressing buttons, but that's the second and last mention of it beyond the throwaway line Blofeld tells Madeleine during Bond's torture chair incident. It's a pretty small size of a big pie.
    Hmm, I'm not sure I buy this. Yeah okay the photo indicates Bond and Blofeld knew each other as children... And why's that? Because they were step brothers! Perhaps you can interpret Blofeld's comments about "reunions" and "it's been a long time" and all that crap as Blofeld anticipating a "reunion" after Bond disrupted Quantum's plans in the past. But what about Bond's insistence to MP and Q that he knows Oberhauser? That is a direct reference to their childhood together. The only reason Bond knows Oberhauser is... wait for it... they were step brothers. It's not a minor point in the film, it's a major part of Bond's investigation into Oberhauser.

    They weren't step brothers. Oberhauser Snr. was Bond's temporary guardian for two winters. He wasn't his step brother, he wasn't his half brother (as I've heard people say) he wasn't even his foster brother, although you could argue semantics if you really felt the need to. The issue here is that they knew each other at all, that's the unpalatable element, but regards the specifics let's be accurate. We're supposed to know our onions.
  • Posts: 676
    I used the wrong word, I meant foster brothers.
  • Posts: 4,325
    Are we talking about Austin Powers? :)
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 I've missed you all.
    Posts: 28,417
    @Milovy, Blofeld has his moments, don't get me wrong, but he's never really been as big as he well should be, nor is he even Fleming faithful. This talk of him being the Moriarty of Bond's life really pumps him up to be something he has never really been, though I know I would've loved to see it. Moriarty wasn't even Holmes' Moriarty, for Christ's sake!

    Blofeld has alway been at his best when he's doing nothing, sitting in a chair and stroking a cat. When it's time for him to come out and play, EON never seem to know what to do with him, and in every appearance he has there's always a distracting element that detracts from so much of the momentum he could've had. In YOLT we get a bland meeting with he and Bond that missed the mark entirely, in OHMSS the continuity is lost and the result is an awkward head scratcher as he fails to notice Bond in front of him, in DAF there's the absence of any Tracy talk or overt revenge based motivation, and in SP it's the personal angle. We can talk about how SP ruined this and that, but what was there to begin with, really? As I said, he's known for the scar and cat, and that's pretty much it. He couldn't even take the final shot at Tracy. Outside of Savalas' take, YOLT Blofeld is outclassed by the villains of his own era on a major scale, and with Gray he goes out on an absolute whimper in a spinning mini-sub. I think it's a case of legend, and things reading better than they live. Blofeld has great moments, but most of those are when he's behind glass or cut off via the picture box. Most everything else is a lot of missed opportunity.

    That's why I can still enjoy Waltz's take, and not feel like anything was lost. He's just playing a character, and for my money, a far more fleshed out one than the others we've seen besides Savalas, who thankfully had more to work with. I don't mean fleshed out as in the personal stuff either, I simply mean who he is as a villain. The hushed tones he causes when he walks in a room, the way he has a drone-like command over his agents, how he tinkers at torture mechanisms like a scientist, etc. I truly feared him, and I haven't ever feared Blofeld before. I've felt he was an arrogant prick, sure, but fearsome? Not until SP.

    People can pick at SP's failures to their heart's content, but every Blofeld has that stupid moment or aspect to their character, some very bad, others benign enough, that really stand out as odd. With Pleasence in YOLT, we have to watch him meekly holding a gun at Bond for what feels like hours without firing, and watch as Bond does nothing to stop any of it in what is the single lamest villain/hero face-off in the series, in OHMSS we have to listen to him tell a woman that he taught her to love the flesh of chickens (?!) and in DAF he dresses up in drag because no other disguise would've worked as well, apparently (and let's not use the camp defense to excuse it). In SP, I don't think Waltz is that different from the rest of the Blofelds, not only in personality, but in some of what the script saddles them with. I'll take him knowing Bond for a few seasons over some of the above, but that's just me.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited May 2017 Posts: 23,883
    Milovy wrote: »
    I think the script would've been better if the simple angle of Blofeld revenging himself on Bond for stopping Quantum was used, but at the same time I don't lose much sleep over it and it doesn't stop me from enjoying the film.
    Agreed. For example in FRWL, SPECTRE wants to get personal revenge on Bond for interfering with Dr. No's operation. That would have been completely sufficient for the "personal" angle in SP.
    Indeed it would have. There was also no need to bring Vesper's death into it so heavy handedly. We would have figured that out for ourselves (if we cared enough) and I'm sure some of us would have been explaining the subtext in detail here after the film was released.

    All they needed to do was make an engaging story about this head of the largest criminal organization (which they had already set up nicely in QoS) and show us why he is someone to be feared. They failed in this respect, at least for this viewer. Failed on account of poor writing, lacklustre direction and disengaged acting by all of the major participants.
    Milovy wrote: »
    Blofeld has never been iconic, so he's not this untouchable thing so many make him out to be.
    Eh, I think many Bond fans would disagree with you (check out all the replies in this thread).
    If he wasn't before (and I think he was, at least on account of the Austin spoof which everyone knew was making fun of that Bond villain with the cat), he certainly is now and for all the wrong reasons. He's iconic for being the villain that authored all of Bond's pain and caused a lot of Bond fans (this one included) to look forward to a recast and another reboot.
  • ShardlakeShardlake Leeds, West Yorkshire, England
    edited May 2017 Posts: 4,043
    Ok he wasn't his brother but the childhood connection can't be denied and I'm sorry but I thought that the Craig era was here to brush away the Austin Powers comparisons, the Broz era didn't really try.

    We have 3 films that mostly serious and yes some plot holes but then we get a fourth that bugger me is riffing on Austin Powers.

    I can assure you people outside the fan base saw this and that is why the film in some circles is a laughing stock.
  • Posts: 4,325
    SPECTRE reveal.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 I've missed you all.
    Posts: 28,417
    Shardlake wrote: »
    Ok he wasn't his brother but the childhood connection can't be denied and I'm sorry but I thought that the Craig era was here to brush away the Austin Powers comparisons, the Broz era didn't really try.

    We have 3 films that mostly serious and yes some plot holes but then we get a fourth that bugger me is riffing on Austin Powers.

    I can assure you people outside the fan base saw this and that is why the film in some circles is a laughing stock.

    The Craig era has been the big experiment, it never does what is expected. It's why we saw Bond actually getting his 00 license, watched him grieve for one and a half films over one woman (realizing what DAF couldn't) and why a film showed an M actually die in an era that switched up certain elements of what a Bond film looks and feels like, attaching arty and also A-list talent that made the films very distinct from those that came before in major ways. Gone were the happy endings with Bond and his woman wrapped in each other's arms, as were the standalone missions, the opening gun barrels, Bond's ability to leave fights unscathed, and the rather one-dimensional action hero persona he'd worn for so long. In short, a gigantic shake-up. Not every choice was ideal or as well executed as some would want across the board, but the era has consistently been about reinvention and deconstruction. The use of Blofeld is just another extension of that, taking what you know and twisting it into something new.

    As for people outside the fan base, I think they'd actually have to know or care enough about Blofeld to view any of SP's story as a laughing stock move. And as I've said, I don't think we have to worry about people knowing who he really is. Casuals went into the theater, saw the film and went out. They either said, "Hey, that was fun," or "I didn't feel it." They may've been caught off guard by Blofeld as a character or the connection, but they certainly wouldn't lose sleep over it for nights on end, or call for EON's downfall on forums all across the internet, if they knew who the guy was at all. He's just not that big a deal.
  • GBFGBF
    Posts: 2,977
    I think the foster brother issue alone is not the problem. It is also less obviously stupid compared to the wind surfing scene. I know some people who enjoy watching Bond films but do not care for the details so very well. They watch the films as standalone adventures and even did not even remember the foster brother part. They just thought: "Oh yes this Blofeld, what a great idea to bring back some of the traditions...."

    Those who know the films better of course have a different view on it.

    The biggest problem that I have with SP is that it tries to be so very serious by putting the loose ends of the Craig era together in a way that is much too simple. The idea of having Blofeld taking revenge on Bond for something that happened in his childhood is bad enough but since they try to make use of this bad idea as an explanation for the villains' motivation of the previous Bond films is probably the biggest crime in the history of Bond films.

    The wind surfing scene is horrible, however, it has neither had a direct impact on any future Bond film nor does it refers to anything that happened in the earlier Bond films.

    Blofeld's backstory in SP is, however, set in stone now and cannot be ignored in future films so easily. So its negative impact on the Bond franchise is certainly bigger...
  • Posts: 4,325
    GBF wrote: »
    I think the foster brother issue alone is not the problem. It is also less obviously stupid compared to the wind surfing scene. I know some people who enjoy watching Bond films but do not care for the details so very well. They watch the films as standalone adventures and even did not even remember the foster brother part. They just thought: "Oh yes this Blofeld, what a great idea to bring back some of the traditions...."

    Those who know the films better of course have a different view on it.

    The biggest problem that I have with SP is that it tries to be so very serious by putting the loose ends of the Craig era together in a way that is much too simple. The idea of having Blofeld taking revenge on Bond for something that happened in his childhood is bad enough but since they try to make use of this bad idea as an explanation for the villains' motivation of the previous Bond films is probably the biggest crime in the history of Bond films.

    The wind surfing scene is horrible, however, it has neither had a direct impact on any future Bond film nor does it refers to anything that happened in the earlier Bond films.

    Blofeld's backstory in SP is, however, set in stone now and cannot be ignored in future films so easily. So its negative impact on the Bond franchise is certainly bigger...

    The wind-surfing scene is brilliant! Pure James Bond cheese at its finest!
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited May 2017 Posts: 23,883
    GBF wrote: »
    Blofeld's backstory in SP is, however, set in stone now and cannot be ignored in future films so easily. So its negative impact on the Bond franchise is certainly bigger...
    Thankfully I am able to ignore it completely in prior entries (including Connery's, Laz's, Moore's and Craig's). So my enjoyment of all that has come before hasn't been spoiled. In fact, it is enhanced by ignoring the latest entry. So my preference is that EON ignore it going forward. An expensive misfire from my perspective. It happens. Now move on.
  • QsAssistantQsAssistant All those moments lost in time... like tears in rain
    Posts: 1,795
    I don't know how anyone could ignore the SPECTRE reveal. It's dumb and in your face. Don't get me wrong I really like SP, it's my second favorite in the Craig era, but that was the worst thing to happen in Craig's era.
  • Posts: 7,644
    DAD IS RIDICULOUS AND FUN, SP ON THE OTHER HAND STARTS OF AS FUN AND BECOMES BORING AND PRETENTIOUS WITH ACTIONSCENES THAT ARE SO POOR THAT THEY ACTUALLY ARE OFFENDING TO THE WHOLE 007 FRANCHISE.
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    What do people consider to be the 'reveal' that is oft mentioned?
  • CommanderRossCommanderRoss The bottom of a pitch lake in Eastern Trinidad, place called La Brea
    Posts: 7,026
    What I don't get is that people accept the Vanquish! Talking about lazy writing! this is sleepwalking! 'Tiny camera's on all sides project the image they see on the other'? Really? On the windows, tires, everything? Come on! Thankfully the car drives in the snow so you can't see the tracks at all... oh... wait.... So the guards can't see the car, but it's tracks they can but they conveniently don't, and a V12 engine is as quiet as the come, while tiny camera's project from the back-end on the windscreen. Gooed the still manage to run into it. It all makes perfect sense. They even had to get the car to fail because the chase wouldn't be much fun otherwise..... Thankfully it's restored at the exact same moment the Aston gets stuck.

    It's way worse then the para surfing, glacier hanging and brother-gate combined, with a moving-from-side-to-side in an alley on top.

    And on that brother-gate: as @Brady rightfully pointed out, they only knew eachother for two winters. I think I'd remember people from my childhood as well. So does Bond and he's so certain of himself he tells Moneypenny to keep on looking after she'd proclaimed him dead. That's not that strange. This wacko himself gives more credence to himself then Bond with his brother stories and 'I'm the author of all your pain'. That's just intimidation, and it clearly doesn't work. Bond doesn't come over as beeing in revenge mode, more like annoyed this pest knows too much and talks too much. It shows best when they're looking at the meteorite. 'we're meant to be impressed' or something in that order. As in'let him talk, i can't give a rat's ar*e'.

    The only thing I really don't like about this Blofeld is that he isn't a genius, hasn't got a master plan and has no apparent reason for his setup. That is the biggest 'piss' on the Fleming material. If you ask me Purvis and Wade are really, really running out of steam these days.

  • QsAssistantQsAssistant All those moments lost in time... like tears in rain
    edited May 2017 Posts: 1,795
    What I don't get is that people accept the Vanquish! Talking about lazy writing! this is sleepwalking! 'Tiny camera's on all sides project the image they see on the other'? Really? On the windows, tires, everything? Come on! Thankfully the car drives in the snow so you can't see the tracks at all... oh... wait.... So the guards can't see the car, but it's tracks they can but they conveniently don't, and a V12 engine is as quiet as the come, while tiny camera's project from the back-end on the windscreen. Gooed the still manage to run into it. It all makes perfect sense. They even had to get the car to fail because the chase wouldn't be much fun otherwise..... Thankfully it's restored at the exact same moment the Aston gets stuck.

    It's way worse then the para surfing, glacier hanging and brother-gate combined, with a moving-from-side-to-side in an alley on top.

    Who the hell has accepted the Vanquish??? That's the first I've heard of it.
    I also wouldn't call it lazy writing, just silly writing.
    And of course the cloak failed. They had to get an action scene with the spy car. A scene which I quite enjoy. So what if it got restored at that point? A bunch of action movies do things like that. So you can't shit on DAD for that.
  • CommanderRossCommanderRoss The bottom of a pitch lake in Eastern Trinidad, place called La Brea
    Posts: 7,026
    Well the question above states 'Was the SPECTRE reveal or the windsurfing and invisible car worse in your mind?'and everybody keeps on going about Bolofeld or the windsurfing, the Vanish isn't mentioned in this thread at all (until I did).

    And yes I can, as it was the most lazy action sequence in history: i push this button, then he pushes that one, and it explodes in the middle. Wow. Amazing. Got the ejectionseat tribute in there as well. Very subtle. It doesn't even feel like a chase to me. and to be honest, with all that weaponry on board, why does Bond run in the first place? He's got more firepower then the guards together!
  • Posts: 19,339
    But the car wasnt actually 'invisible',it had reflective built in mirrors,which apparantly is possible..so compared to the stupid CGI and total abuse of an iconic character,i would say 'they' are the lazy calls.
  • Posts: 7,644
    Well the question above states 'Was the SPECTRE reveal or the windsurfing and invisible car worse in your mind?'and everybody keeps on going about Bolofeld or the windsurfing, the Vanish isn't mentioned in this thread at all (until I did).

    And yes I can, as it was the most lazy action sequence in history: i push this button, then he pushes that one, and it explodes in the middle. Wow. Amazing. Got the ejectionseat tribute in there as well. Very subtle. It doesn't even feel like a chase to me. and to be honest, with all that weaponry on board, why does Bond run in the first place? He's got more firepower then the guards together!

    That said as a car chase it trumps the one in SP easily even adding a whistle in the DAD chase would not have made the one form SP anything less than pedestrian.
  • The key thing is that they're a very different kind of bad. I don't quite know how to compare a story beat that falls completely flat despite the meaning they intended to hold compares with an offensively poorly conceived and executed stunt.
  • RichardTheBruceRichardTheBruce I'm motivated by my Duty.
    Posts: 9,569
    SPECTRE reveal: I wouldn't have chosen it, similar to the way I wouldn't choose a female M or a black actor as Leiter. In execution, those things work fine-to-great in the films.

    Invisible car: absolutely no problem with this. It was served up as comic relief, explained by Q-Branch, and on screen it's presented well visually. I like how it plays out as amusing, mildly useful, then fails and OO7 is back on his own to get the mission done.

    Windsurfing: egregious, embarrassing, I blame the producers for this failure in judgment and taste that made it into the final cut. I understand brainstorming, it's a mildly interesting concept, and in execution it clearly fails. Nice try, should have ended up on the cutting room floor--a simple jump cut from Bond hanging perilously off the ice cliff to Bond clothes-lining the snow machine operator would work fine.

    And so: worst for me is clearly the glacial-tsunami-CGI-parasailing. But it's also one of those quick, unnecessary, illogical quick-passing moments of silliness in Bond films standard pretty much from 1971-2002. I was used to it.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 I've missed you all.
    Posts: 28,417
    What I don't get is that people accept the Vanquish! Talking about lazy writing! this is sleepwalking! 'Tiny camera's on all sides project the image they see on the other'? Really? On the windows, tires, everything? Come on! Thankfully the car drives in the snow so you can't see the tracks at all... oh... wait.... So the guards can't see the car, but it's tracks they can but they conveniently don't, and a V12 engine is as quiet as the come, while tiny camera's project from the back-end on the windscreen. Gooed the still manage to run into it. It all makes perfect sense. They even had to get the car to fail because the chase wouldn't be much fun otherwise..... Thankfully it's restored at the exact same moment the Aston gets stuck.

    It's way worse then the para surfing, glacier hanging and brother-gate combined, with a moving-from-side-to-side in an alley on top.

    And on that brother-gate: as @Brady rightfully pointed out, they only knew eachother for two winters. I think I'd remember people from my childhood as well. So does Bond and he's so certain of himself he tells Moneypenny to keep on looking after she'd proclaimed him dead. That's not that strange. This wacko himself gives more credence to himself then Bond with his brother stories and 'I'm the author of all your pain'. That's just intimidation, and it clearly doesn't work. Bond doesn't come over as beeing in revenge mode, more like annoyed this pest knows too much and talks too much. It shows best when they're looking at the meteorite. 'we're meant to be impressed' or something in that order. As in'let him talk, i can't give a rat's ar*e'.

    The only thing I really don't like about this Blofeld is that he isn't a genius, hasn't got a master plan and has no apparent reason for his setup. That is the biggest 'piss' on the Fleming material. If you ask me Purvis and Wade are really, really running out of steam these days.

    @CommanderRoss, you hit a salient point I have tried to argue many times here, about Blofeld's stories about Bond and his motivations being far more exaggerated by him than Bond. Blofeld has created so many delusions in his head, not only of his power and amazing ability to do everything, but also his ego-based hatred of Bond. Bond was taught by Hannes to do some survival stuff, hunting, fishing, etc and that's it, which he did out of sympathy for an orphan child. Blofeld took those events that are very benign and what you'd expect a guardian to do for a child staying with them, and ballooned them through his soft ego into something larger than it ever could've been. Out of Bond and Hannes' very simple and short time together, Blofeld created his very own villains in Bond and his father that he could fight as the hero of his own story. All of this simply points to his very dangerous ego, and how unsettled he is when he is opposed. This edge and certain unstableness are well replicated by Waltz, as you can see him telling himself stories in his head, to justify his actions and balloon his views of himself.

    This sense we get of Blofeld, of him essentially making things bigger than they are, extends to the moment at the crater where he has the audacity to take credit for literally everything that has happened to Bond. This was quite clearly a part of his ego and overall character to me, where he was so jealous/envious of the acts that Le Chiffre, White and Silva were able to create in Bond's life, that he couldn't help but make it seem like he was the one that pulled all the triggers, so to speak, to hurt 007. He was no doubt a boss to some of the men who hurt Bond, and he at least financed/supported Silva, but it's quite obvious to me, and it seems to Bond too, that he's bullshitting and exaggerating facts. He knows Bond is soft on Vesper and M, and makes it out that he was the one that pressed the red button on both of them to get him on edge and believe his fables. Those of us who know the films, however, know that it was White who was the main organizer behind Vesper's manipulation, and her death was of her own volition, and not an act of assassination like Blofeld seems to make out that he ordered. With M, Blofeld's financed crusade of Silva's against her was noted, but the man was still a very independent operator and it was a simple lone gunman that shot M in Skyfall, something that Blofeld couldn't have ever planned for and that he simply rushes to claim as his own personal assassination. As is the usual Blofeld behavior, he keeps his hands clean on the whole and lets everyone else work for him. They do all the work, and he takes all the credit. So instead of being the self-professed "author" of all Bond's pain, he's far closer to the plagiarist of the tragedy that Bond has experienced.

    In conclusion, I think your views are quite astute on all this, and refreshing to read as they match my own. So much of Blofeld's character is based on him telling tales, and taking facts to spin them into warped realities that exist only in his head. Watching Dan's Bond in the film, you can see him on numerous occasions almost saying, "Oh Christ, are you speaking again?" He knows that Blofeld is using his past to get him on edge, wrapping truths in lies while also making him seem like the most dangerous man on the planet, all so Blofeld can prove to him and Madeleine (as well as everyone else) just how special he is. His need for power is evident all over the film, in how he forces his agents to push in his chair, push a speaker his way, turn at his every word and all the rest, including the meteorite he's claimed ownership of that he compares to his own life story by saying that they were both out in the darkness for years, waiting to strike with a dramatic impact. But inside Blofeld has always been that bastard little kid, craving attention and the need to be worshipped. The fact that he devised a massive network of operations where so many of his agents fear him and his control is not only a perfect and logical pursuit of his, in many ways it was inevitable. Without that feeling of power, he's nothing. Of course, the minute Bond rolls around he's reminded all over again just how impotent and worthless he is.

    Bond is the fly in the ointment, the rust in the machine that spits in Blofeld's face, calls him a loon and shows everyone that he's a paper tiger. I never once think Bond believes his bullshit or falls for his manipulations, and he goes out of his way to ensure Madeleine doesn't believe him either, as with the White video. He knows the type of man Blofeld is, as he's been around shades of that personality before. In many ways, Bond is a vessel for my own feelings on Blofeld in the movie as well. Watching Blofeld yammer on and on about himself I think in my head, "You're impressed with yourself, aren't you?" Bond's constant emasculation of Blofeld and his strategic ruination of his very masturbatory self narratives of his own divinity in the fine 007 tradition dating back to the 60s serve to show us all who holds the true power, and which of the two is full of it.
  • Bond is the fly in the ointment, the rust in the machine that spits in Blofeld's face, calls him a loon and shows everyone that he's a paper tiger.
    you've had a way with words @double0brady0matic!
    very masturbatory self narratives

Sign In or Register to comment.