Bond vs Bond

2

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  • BondJasonBond006BondJasonBond006 on fb and ajb
    edited January 2017 Posts: 9,020
    =)) at the thread's title (which was Craig vs Dalton and has been changed since)

    TIMOTHY DALTON RULEZ™ vs ole blue swim trunks

    @MajorDSmythe as a mod you should prevent such threads to happen :D being impartial can only go so far, wouldn't you think :P
  • MajorDSmytheMajorDSmythe "I tolerate this century, but I don't enjoy it."Moderator
    Posts: 13,894
    No, I like to keep these threads open as a reason for me to preach the word of 'Our Lord & Saviour Timothy Dalton'.
  • Posts: 1,165
    TLD + CR
    LTK > QOS

    +1 to Dalton.
  • Posts: 19,339
    Well it was to narrow it down to the last 3 Bonds contributions as they are more contraversial bu hey ho......@TR007 is the man....
  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    Posts: 8,110
    barry, please calm. I love your thread ideas, your contributions are very valuable and creative. It won't help it to react badly.
  • Posts: 1,165
    Thank you @mendes4lyfe
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 23,561
    A bloke can't get a quiet ponder on the porcelain any more without facing another battle of the Bonds upon his return. ;-)

    Dalton or Craig? I love them both as Bond so I can't really decide. Dalton wouldn't have worked in the 2000s, much like Craig wouldn't have worked in the 80s. But in their respective era's, they are much needed to alleviate the pain from the previous actor's final outing. Both AVTAK and DAD had left their superstar in a bad place - and for the record, that was not said stars' fault. But Dalton and Craig's introductions both feel like taking a fresh shower after two weeks of swimming in your own sweat. They both bring the Fleming, and the physicality (though Dalton was arguably much less challenged in that department than Craig); they are both careful not to overdo their comedic bits and they both look amazing in a suit. Unconventional but far more adventurous Bonds, that is how I'd describe them.

    Honestly, Dalton or Craig? I think both are amazing Bonds.
  • GoldenGunGoldenGun Per ora e per il momento che verrà
    Posts: 6,791
    For me it's crystal clear that Tim blows Craig out of the water. Craig does what Tim did but without the finesse or the style of a classy gentleman.

    It's basically professional agent with style, class and sophistication (Tim) against random professional agent (Craig).

    I tend to blame the over-pretentious nature of the Mendes films though. In QOS Craig gave a very Bondian performance, but SF and SP made him way too unsophisticated. Mendes doesn't seem to understand that you can't make up for this working class kind of hero just by putting him in a DB5.

    If we want to include Pierce into the debate, I must say I prefer him to Craig but not to Dalton. Pierce was definitely a very elegant Bond. Look at the way he moves, at his gestures, it's all there. Some pretty terrible dialogue drags him down a bit though.

    1. Tim
    2. Pierce
    3. Dan
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    DarthDimi wrote: »

    Honestly, Dalton or Craig? I think both are amazing Bonds.

    And they both beat Brosnan easily.
  • MajorDSmytheMajorDSmythe "I tolerate this century, but I don't enjoy it."Moderator
    Posts: 13,894
    GoldenGun wrote: »
    For me it's crystal clear that Tim blows Craig out of the water. Craig does what Tim did but without the finesse or the style of a classy gentleman.

    It's basically professional agent with style, class and sophistication (Tim) against random professional agent (Craig).

    I tend to blame the over-pretentious nature of the Mendes films though. In QOS Craig gave a very Bondian performance, but SF and SP made him way too unsophisticated. Mendes doesn't seem to understand that you can't make up for this working class kind of hero just by putting him in a DB5.

    If we want to include Pierce into the debate, I must say I prefer him to Craig but not to Dalton. Pierce was definitely a very elegant Bond. Look at the way he moves, at his gestures, it's all there. Some pretty terrible dialogue drags him down a bit though.

    1. Tim
    2. Pierce
    3. Dan

    I am so close to agreeing with you, @GoldenGun. I do believe that with Spectre, Craig finally gets to play James Bond (rather than the Bourne copy he'd been playing previously). Seeing Bond step out onto the balcony (accompanied by the Bond theme), and effortlessly swaggering (the first time Craig was swaggered and it not come off as a desperate attempt to mimick Connery) across the rooftops, a quick adjust of his cuffs, followed by putting the ear piece in and readying his gun, I had such a big smile on my face. That was exactly what I wanted to see from Craig at the beginning of his run. Unfortunately, being a Mendes Bond film, Spectre isn't able to escape the pretentious attitude of Skyfall. The less said about the godawful Bond - Blofeld connection the better.

    I do agree with the ranking, though. If Craig had started with an altered Spectre, and continued from there, he would be up with Dalton and Lazenby. But that isn't the way that it worked out, so he is dead last in my ranking.

    1. Dalton
    2. Lazenby
    3. Connery
    4. Moore
    5. Brosnan
    6. Craig
  • edited March 2017 Posts: 19,339
    I think we better keep the Dalton v Brosnan debate in here peeps,the other thread is now waaaaay off topic !

    Anyway,as we were saying,you only have to look at the films Brosnan has done post-Bond to see he is still as popular as ever,compared to Dalton.
  • Posts: 11,189
    I think Dalton is more of a stage or serious tv actor than he is a film actor.
  • Posts: 19,339
    Indeed...he hasn't fronted a film since Bond I don't think...his highest profile is probably Penny Dreadful.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited March 2017 Posts: 23,883
    I just watched TLD last night, inspired by the ongoing Dalton/Brosnan debate that we've been having here lately. I have new found appreciation for Dalton's performance in the film (and D'Abo's too surprisingly), although my criticisms remain.

    I'll try to view Brosnan's TND shortly before making any further comparisons between them, as this is another 'run of the mill' adventure as far as I'm concerned (which instead draws direct inspiration from Roger's best rather than Sean's) and they both are similarly ranked for me.
  • Posts: 11,189
    TLD is better than TND.
  • Posts: 19,339
    BAIN123 wrote: »
    TLD is better than TND.

    No its not.

  • Posts: 11,189
    I don't rank TLD as highly as a lot on here but I think there is more class to this film than TND.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    To my mind, they both open very strongly and then disintegrate precipitously towards tedium at the end. Both feature rather forgettable leading ladies as well (again imho).
  • Posts: 11,189
    Dies is almost too much of a shoot-em-up. TLD is a bit dull at times but they at least try to make it more of a proper spy-thriller.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    BAIN123 wrote: »
    Dies is almost too much of a shoot-em-up. TLD is a bit dull at times but they at least try to make it more of a proper spy-thriller.
    That is true, but TND is less of a machine gun fest in the earlier half (in fact, it's quite a thriller up to Asia as I recall) and TLD descends into as much of a gun-toting explosion ridden adventure (my biggest criticism) towards the end as the later film. I find it difficult to distinguish between it and Indy in Afghanistan.
  • GamesBond007GamesBond007 Golden Grotto
    Posts: 66
    I certainly prefer Brosnan over others but at the end of the day Dalton is the superior actor in the role. He just lacks a bit of charm and the swagger that Connery/Brosnan/Craig have.

    Either way though, Connery wins. He may not be my favourite but he is the best and comes in at a VERY close second for me.

  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited March 2017 Posts: 23,883
    I just finished TND and was reasonably impressed with Brosnan in this film. I watched TLD yesterday, and was quite impressed with Dalton in that film as well.

    As was mentioned on another thread where these two were discussed yesterday, Brosnan is far more slick & stylish as Bond, while Dalton is more sincere & real. In TND, Brosnan gives a decent performance, and for the most part he avoids his acting tics (pain face, exaggerated facial expressions). One of the issues I've always had with his Bond though is that he seems quite slight, even though he's quite a tall chap. There's something rather unthreatening about his physique, voice and manner. Dalton on the other hand is a more sinister presence, and is more credible as a hardened agent.

    I can't really pick one actor over the other. They both bring different strengths, & I find in both cases that what one lacks the other delivers. Neither actor is fully convincing to me but both are quite watchable as Bond.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    TLD looms far above TND.
  • Posts: 4,325
    TLD looms far above TND.

    Yes.
  • Posts: 6,822
    Absolutely. TLD is a classic Bond whereas TND is tedious film with no story, padded out with long tedious action scenes!
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited March 2017 Posts: 23,883
    Both start off wonderfully, with TLD recalling classic Sean in FRWL & TND conjuring up memories of classic Roger from TSWLM. Sadly, I find that both films decline precipitously about 2/3 in, and both have very disappointing finales.

    Additionally, neither film comes close to matching the premise or quality of the earlier entries which inspire them and which they seek to evoke. Such is the risk with attempting to draw inspiration from the past.
  • Posts: 6,822
    I do think TLD after a lull picks itself back up gain for the airport battle (Love the plane avoiding a head on collision with an incoming plane, done much better than TND lame repeat in its pre-titles!) and am i the only one who loves the final shootout with Whitaker in his war room?
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    Mathis1 wrote: »
    I do think TLD after a lull picks itself back up gain for the airport battle (Love the plane avoiding a head on collision with an incoming plane, done much better than TND lame repeat in its pre-titles!) and am i the only one who loves the final shootout with Whitaker in his war room?
    I'm not a fan of that war room sequence I'm afraid. A bit too low budget tv-like for my liking. I agree that the end of the Afghan section is great, especially when Bond takes control of the plane, but up until then I find myself nodding off.
  • Posts: 11,189
    I wouldn't quite call TLD "classic Bond". Parts of it are a little dull and I kind of agree with one comment I once heard that "the plot is a mere excuse for globe trotting".

    However there's certainly a handful of classic scenes in it.
  • Jazz007Jazz007 Minnesota
    Posts: 257
    There are some good moments in the war room fight - the toy cannon firing at bond has a very legitimately creepy feel to it - but the sequence does feel a bit off at the same time. It does have a strange 'low budget tv-like' feel as @bondjames mentioned; plus, Bond should have been smart enough to know that shots to the head weren't working because of the armor and that Whitaker's legs, arms and torso are clearly exposed. There's also something about a grown man playing with toy soldiers that takes me out of the movie for a second. A Spaceballs-like moment.

    Still, Joe Don Baker was a better Whitaker than Wade.
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