No Time To Die: Production Diary

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  • SeanCraigSeanCraig Germany
    Posts: 732
    I have been reading here for quite a while but it's my first posting.

    Like all of us here I am very curious what Daniel Craig will (most likely) tell about his Bond future in this upcoming interview. In terms of timing I am sure he will have made his mind up by now if he will make one more movie in 2017/2018 or not - preproduction will likely start full steam next year and they need to know where they are going.

    What bugged me the most in SP is that it had really great elements (PTS, Mr.White Scenes, Q-Scenes) and just (IMHO) screwed it up so badly ... mostly in the 3rd act. Like many said within this thread or forum is that it did not require much to make SP a better film. Reason for this post is that I also read here (and elsewhere), fans of the Craig-Era (I am one of them) don't want some elements from the "old formula" defined by Connery in the 60s to come back. But I don't think that's true. As much as I liked CR (and it is #3 on my 007 Top 5) I definitely appreciated they brought back Moneypenny and especially Q and the way they did - in a modernized or "New Formula"-adjusted way that worked with Craig very well.

    That is why I greatly appreciate SF (even it's quite experimental in many ways) while I am a bit unhappy with Spectre: SF just worked and I find it highly rewatchable. The elements they brought back just work - while they did not in SP. In SP on the one hand they went back to the old formula too much.

    One example: When Bond adjusts his cufflinks in the PTS of SF, that is just perfect - the way we (I think all) like James Bond to be. This whole thing worked for me being something from the "old formula" but still fitting the new one. While this scene worked so wonderful, the couch-scene from SP just did not. It was too much in my opinion and felt ... not right.

    Same with the half-brother thing: They tried too hard to re-play something from SF (more background story to Bond) but it was just too much. I appreciated the background information added from Fleming elements about Hannes Oberhauser - but making Blofeld his evil half-brother is just too much. Same with the example above it is just "too much of the new formula" - they tried "too hard".

    I definitely want one more Craig movie to be made - but I would, like many, want to get rid of these "over the hill" elements and play them down a bit again - without losing them completely. The Q scenes for example worked well in SP as well as the little gag with the FIAT driver in Rome. I like the extended Bond/Moneypenny relationship as much as the new M: All is well in this area. But the nemesis must be refined and definitley need a script in quality of CR.

    I do hope for at least one more Craig 007 Film (I am not sure how long we will be able to keep up doing them so physically demanding like he defined the role) with Fleming novel elements from OHMSS (I would definitely use Madeleine as a new Tracy), Moonraker (Gala Brand as well as the "Hideaway Basis") and less but more explored locations like they did in movies like DN, TB and other early ones. QoS had such great places they went to - but some of them are wasted somehow. I generally like QoS btw - I just purely hate the editing plus find the showdown a bit weak - but I like it (much) better than SP actually.
  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    Posts: 7,982
    barryt007 wrote: »
    w2bond wrote: »
    Actually I think 2019 wouldn't be a bad time. The 50th anniversary of OHMSS, a prized jewel of the franchise. Plus the extra wait might get people excited for Bonds return. If my theory is correct they would start filming around December of 2018. That sounds about right to me.

    Please, no more anniversaries and tributes. 2002. Blatant references in 2008. 50th anniversary in 2012. Nostalgic elements in 2015. Please make the 25th a stand alone mission which looks to the future, not the past.

    Do any celebrations and tributes outside of the movie

    That's what I mean. The celebrations for OHMSS and the release of B25 will coincide.

    I'm not sure I like the idea of Bond not being on screen for nearly 4 years.
    He could lose his momentum during that period,and would definitely lose out to Bourne and Hunt in MI.

    Surely that's a good thing if it forces EON to be bold and reprove to the world why Bond is best a la CR and Goldeneye.
  • edited September 2016 Posts: 19,339
    Great post and I agree with the majority of the points too..good to have you on bond @SeanCraig !
  • Posts: 4,325
    tanaka123 wrote: »
    tanaka123 wrote: »
    tanaka123 wrote: »
    doubleoego wrote: »
    EoN really need to not get distracted from the job they have to do. They own the rights to all of Fleming's work and they need to take serious advantage of that.

    The only thing EoN need to look at Marvel for is the involvement Feige has over the films and even then, it's only looking to serve as a reminder that Cubby and Harry largely had it right in their stewardship of the films when they were in charge. Feige is similar as a sort of modern day Cubby and Harry but with greater creative and business strengths. EoN need to have tighter control over their films and be more stringent about what they want. (Newman's refusal to use the Bond theme should have activated an automatic dismissal and a replacement broufht in stat). However, but at the same time they need to move away from some of their outdated policies that limit the pool of talent they could get working on these films.

    They need to focus on establishing a creative direction and sticking with it until it is necessary to restrategise. In the mean time have writers come in and pitch ideas as to where the story and characters are going. A shortlist of the best ones get turned into draft screenplays and the best one of that gets put forward to be worked on until the script is complete in which EoN are regularly given progress reports and not the crap that happened with Logan RE: SP.

    Newman refused to use the Bond theme? Sure it's in both Skyfall and Spectre.
    Very rarely, however, just to remind us it's a Bond film.

    The iconic guitar part of the Bond theme has been played only once outside of the end credits in the Craig era - the DB5 reveal in SF.
    Some don't want the "cliches" of the old films and formula to come back, @DaltonCraig007. Such as the use of The James Bond Theme, the cufflink/tie adjustment, the suave and cool chap Bond as well as supervillains. Go figure. ;)

    Is Fleming's Bond cool and suave?
    The cinematic Bond isn't completely defined by the literary character.

    I think that was my point.
    Well, if you're hoping they're down to adapt the Fleming character completely from head to toe, you shouldn't expect that in the hands of Eon Productions. They haven't done it 50 years ago and onward, they certainly won't do now. The best we can hope for it is elements of it, which is seen in Dalton and Craig's tenures, so far. They've created a new character once they released his cinematic debut. The latter is the character the average cinemagoer knows and watches.

    Absolutely.
  • SeanCraigSeanCraig Germany
    Posts: 732
    barryt007 wrote: »
    Great post and I agree with the majority of the points too..good to have you on bond @SeanCraig !
    Thanks! Great forum here.

  • edited September 2016 Posts: 4,325
    tanaka123 wrote: »
    doubleoego wrote: »
    tanaka123 wrote: »
    doubleoego wrote: »
    EoN really need to not get distracted from the job they have to do. They own the rights to all of Fleming's work and they need to take serious advantage of that.

    The only thing EoN need to look at Marvel for is the involvement Feige has over the films and even then, it's only looking to serve as a reminder that Cubby and Harry largely had it right in their stewardship of the films when they were in charge. Feige is similar as a sort of modern day Cubby and Harry but with greater creative and business strengths. EoN need to have tighter control over their films and be more stringent about what they want. (Newman's refusal to use the Bond theme should have activated an automatic dismissal and a replacement broufht in stat). However, but at the same time they need to move away from some of their outdated policies that limit the pool of talent they could get working on these films.

    They need to focus on establishing a creative direction and sticking with it until it is necessary to restrategise. In the mean time have writers come in and pitch ideas as to where the story and characters are going. A shortlist of the best ones get turned into draft screenplays and the best one of that gets put forward to be worked on until the script is complete in which EoN are regularly given progress reports and not the crap that happened with Logan RE: SP.

    Newman refused to use the Bond theme? Sure it's in both Skyfall and Spectre.

    He didn't want to use it and apparently he didn't want to weave cues from Adele's SF theme. Someone else was brought in iirc to add bits of the Bond theme. In any case, we didn't get a full Bond theme within the movie itself and that, I find unacceptable.

    The criticisms over his use of the Bond theme are somewhat nonsensical: the theme was all over the Skyfall score, not always overtly but certainly creatively, and that approach very much applies to Spectre, which in-keeping with the movie's central notion of the past catching up is closely tied into Skyfall's musical ideas. In fact, it's surprising to hear how much of Skyfall's material is referenced in Spectre; at the same time, Newman is far too accomplished a composer to use said ideas as a crutch. Instead, it's best to see both scores as two sides of the same Bondian coin: a musical depiction of the past, present and future.

    When it comes to Spectre itself, the Bond theme first makes a forceful, brassy appearance in the opening "Los Muertos Vivos Estan", subsequent applications ranging from the slyly knowing bass flute intonations in the opening moments of "The Eternal City" to the spine-tingling choral interpretation midway through "Backfire", the steady build-up of "Safe House" and the relentlessly exciting statement in "Snow Plane". Surely its biggest crowd-pleasing moment comes in the hugely dramatic "Westminster Bridge" whose squealing horns recall John Barry at his finest. What Newman does brilliantly is avoid using the theme as a glib, predictable signifier of something heroic: instead he deploys it very carefully, looking to see how it can extend the emotional impact of a given track in the most memorable way possible.

    Newman scored the whole film. You're thinking of GoldenEye where John Altman was brought in to bring the Bond theme into the tank chase.

    IMO the complaints on Newman are very much correct.

    Until we hear the Bond theme like these from him...







    ... he is under-using the Bond theme. Me and @ClarkDevlin are aware the Bond theme is used his both his soundtracks, but we are talking about a huge, bombastic version of the Bond theme during an action sequence or Bond doing something cool. Which simply has not happened outside of the DB5 reveal in Craig's era.

    But that's so passé - we need the series taking forward not backward.
  • ClarkDevlinClarkDevlin Martinis, Girls and Guns
    Posts: 15,423
    See what I mean, @DaltonCraig007?
  • w2bondw2bond is indeed a very rare breed
    edited September 2016 Posts: 2,252
    Then give us a modern rendition of the Bond theme. Not...whatever this is
    https://youtu.be/Qd4jGdHYTH8?t=16m25s
  • Posts: 15,785
    barryt007 wrote: »
    w2bond wrote: »
    Actually I think 2019 wouldn't be a bad time. The 50th anniversary of OHMSS, a prized jewel of the franchise. Plus the extra wait might get people excited for Bonds return. If my theory is correct they would start filming around December of 2018. That sounds about right to me.

    Please, no more anniversaries and tributes. 2002. Blatant references in 2008. 50th anniversary in 2012. Nostalgic elements in 2015. Please make the 25th a stand alone mission which looks to the future, not the past.

    Do any celebrations and tributes outside of the movie

    That's what I mean. The celebrations for OHMSS and the release of B25 will coincide.

    I'm not sure I like the idea of Bond not being on screen for nearly 4 years.
    He could lose his momentum during that period,and would definitely lose out to Bourne and Hunt in MI.

    Surely that's a good thing if it forces EON to be bold and reprove to the world why Bond is best a la CR and Goldeneye.

    Problem is every time a four year wait occurs- EON once again has to PROVE Bond is still relevant in this day and age- and show audiences what a James Bond film apparently is. Hence more tacky references: dialogue referencing Bond or MI6 being out of date, and worst of all, an obviously undecided approach on where and how to take the series leading to very mixed up films.
  • edited September 2016 Posts: 19,339
    Re the Bond theme,rather than derailing this thread any more ,I have opened up a new one,as I feel this is a topic in need of discussion and debate .
  • Posts: 19,339
    ToTheRight wrote: »
    barryt007 wrote: »
    w2bond wrote: »
    Actually I think 2019 wouldn't be a bad time. The 50th anniversary of OHMSS, a prized jewel of the franchise. Plus the extra wait might get people excited for Bonds return. If my theory is correct they would start filming around December of 2018. That sounds about right to me.

    Please, no more anniversaries and tributes. 2002. Blatant references in 2008. 50th anniversary in 2012. Nostalgic elements in 2015. Please make the 25th a stand alone mission which looks to the future, not the past.

    Do any celebrations and tributes outside of the movie

    That's what I mean. The celebrations for OHMSS and the release of B25 will coincide.

    I'm not sure I like the idea of Bond not being on screen for nearly 4 years.
    He could lose his momentum during that period,and would definitely lose out to Bourne and Hunt in MI.

    Surely that's a good thing if it forces EON to be bold and reprove to the world why Bond is best a la CR and Goldeneye.

    Problem is every time a four year wait occurs- EON once again has to PROVE Bond is still relevant in this day and age- and show audiences what a James Bond film apparently is. Hence more tacky references: dialogue referencing Bond or MI6 being out of date, and worst of all, an obviously undecided approach on where and how to take the series leading to very mixed up films.

    Exactly,they try to hard...they cram too much in,in their determination to show Bond is back.

    If it wasn't the standard 2 year gap then things would be much easier and not forced.

    As Bond would then say,as in QOS : " I never left....."

  • WalecsWalecs On Her Majesty's Secret Service
    Posts: 3,157
    tanaka123 wrote: »
    doubleoego wrote: »
    EoN really need to not get distracted from the job they have to do. They own the rights to all of Fleming's work and they need to take serious advantage of that.

    The only thing EoN need to look at Marvel for is the involvement Feige has over the films and even then, it's only looking to serve as a reminder that Cubby and Harry largely had it right in their stewardship of the films when they were in charge. Feige is similar as a sort of modern day Cubby and Harry but with greater creative and business strengths. EoN need to have tighter control over their films and be more stringent about what they want. (Newman's refusal to use the Bond theme should have activated an automatic dismissal and a replacement broufht in stat). However, but at the same time they need to move away from some of their outdated policies that limit the pool of talent they could get working on these films.

    They need to focus on establishing a creative direction and sticking with it until it is necessary to restrategise. In the mean time have writers come in and pitch ideas as to where the story and characters are going. A shortlist of the best ones get turned into draft screenplays and the best one of that gets put forward to be worked on until the script is complete in which EoN are regularly given progress reports and not the crap that happened with Logan RE: SP.

    Newman refused to use the Bond theme? Sure it's in both Skyfall and Spectre.
    Very rarely, however, just to remind us it's a Bond film.

    The iconic guitar part of the Bond theme has been played only once outside of the end credits in the Craig era - the DB5 reveal in SF.

    It also briefly appeared in Time to get out and Trip Fields.
  • jake24jake24 Sitting at your desk, kissing your lover, eating supper with your familyModerator
    Posts: 10,586
    45 new comments, I thought maybe we had gotten somewhere (news wise). Oh well...
  • WalecsWalecs On Her Majesty's Secret Service
    Posts: 3,157
    barryt007 wrote: »
    w2bond wrote: »
    Actually I think 2019 wouldn't be a bad time. The 50th anniversary of OHMSS, a prized jewel of the franchise. Plus the extra wait might get people excited for Bonds return. If my theory is correct they would start filming around December of 2018. That sounds about right to me.

    Please, no more anniversaries and tributes. 2002. Blatant references in 2008. 50th anniversary in 2012. Nostalgic elements in 2015. Please make the 25th a stand alone mission which looks to the future, not the past.

    Do any celebrations and tributes outside of the movie

    That's what I mean. The celebrations for OHMSS and the release of B25 will coincide.

    I'm not sure I like the idea of Bond not being on screen for nearly 4 years.
    He could lose his momentum during that period,and would definitely lose out to Bourne and Hunt in MI.

    =)) :))
  • Posts: 1,296
    Bond 25 won't happen until 2019 at the earliest.
    Thank you yes, in the meantime, we can get to know each other. :)
  • ClarkDevlinClarkDevlin Martinis, Girls and Guns
    Posts: 15,423
    IGUANNA wrote: »
    Bond 25 won't happen until 2019 at the earliest.
    Thank you yes, in the meantime, we can get to know each other. :)
    Nice to meet you, I'm Batman. (Extends his hand)
  • edited September 2016 Posts: 382
    I agree with those saying the gaps are too big. Bond could be finished sooner rather than later if the complacency and lassez faire attitude continues. Just need an actor who will actually commit to the part and get back to a film every 2 years which they did for the best part of 40 years. No reason why they can't go back to that.
  • Posts: 1,296
    IGUANNA wrote: »
    Bond 25 won't happen until 2019 at the earliest.
    Thank you yes, in the meantime, we can get to know each other. :)
    Nice to meet you, I'm Batman. (Extends his hand)
    Nice, Can I see your abs? :)
  • Posts: 19,339
    I agree with those saying the gaps are too big. Bond could be finished sooner rather than later if the complacency and lassez faire attitude continues. Just need an actor who will actually commit to the part and get back to a film every 2 years which they did for the best part of 40 years. No reason why they can't go back to that.

    Exactly what I have been saying,Count....totally agree,there is no reason not to revert to this...

  • ClarkDevlinClarkDevlin Martinis, Girls and Guns
    Posts: 15,423
    IGUANNA wrote: »
    IGUANNA wrote: »
    Bond 25 won't happen until 2019 at the earliest.
    Thank you yes, in the meantime, we can get to know each other. :)
    Nice to meet you, I'm Batman. (Extends his hand)
    Nice, Can I see your abs? :)
    I sold it to George Clooney.
  • RC7RC7
    edited September 2016 Posts: 10,512
    Ed83 wrote: »
    That's just illogical, though. Just because you plan to do something a decade down the line doesn't mean that won't change. In all likelihood, it will. This whole discussion is a bit of a non sequitur - SF was a hugely successful standalone movie, both critically and financially. The 'misstep' that is at the heart of this argument was born out of the giddiness to include the SP organisation at the earliest opportunity and the decision to retcon. Had those two things been handled differently, or even abandoned completely, we would likely not be having this conversation. The issue people have is not with forward planning (they've just convinced themselves of this because of Disney/Marvel), the issue is with general decision making at the pre-production stage.

    I wasn't so much talking about mapping out the next 10-15 years, but instead extending pre production planning of the next film to run simultaneous to the production cycle of the current film. This would allow more time for ideas to mature and bad elements to be dismissed earlier in the process. This might help hit the 3 year release window a bit better.

    The problem is, unless the entire team is consistent there's no benefit to be had from this approach. What you’re talking about is a serial model, where you have a creative team under the stewardship of Showrunner, plotting the course in tandem with production. Bond works more successfully in an episodic framework. The disadvantage is that, depending on the team you assemble, the finished product is going to vary (as we've seen) across films, but I don't think we're ever going to go back to a situation where a journeyman churns out 3, 4, or 5 in a row.

    The key is to bring in a writing team who can maintain some level of consistency and hire directors who are happy to work within a pre-defined (although loose enough) framework. EON are constantly tossing about ideas re. Where to take the series next, but given their relative size it makes sense to channel all focus into the film they’re making when they’re in production. They all had an idea of where Bond might go post CR, but it’s not something you need to set in stone way before time. Ideas change, they stagnate, and teams lose focus. When I get writer’s block, I toy with Bond treatments that go back and forth with a partner. The ideas immediately post-SP are wildly different from those we’d cook up now. Spending years developing is one of the hardest processes – especially when you have something as malleable as Bond to play with. The process has to keep moving and evolving.

    The reason I think SP didn’t satisfy some is because it was in many ways shackled by what came before. Some people enjoy the threads of continuity, but I do wonder if that is merely down to an OCD type need for order and symmetry more than it is a satisfying story. If they had freed themselves of the past, figuratively and literally, I believe the story might’ve moved into more fertile territory.

    That’s why, for me, it’s always important for them to feel they can do anything going forward, without having to adhere to any pre-written rules or arcs they may have implemented. It should be a blank canvas, with a strong leader at the helm to keep the crew in check.

  • walter1985walter1985 Rotterdam
    Posts: 91
    Daniel is ready for Bond 25. good shape, nice hair.
    ad_217523115.jpg?w=748&h=1024&crop=1 :D
  • While we wait, here's a great send-up of the Daniel Craig era in a random Adobe marketing ad. It's tone perfect. Pretty incredible, really. It's not just a generic Bond or superspy spoof, like normal. This is the Craig era, right down to the soundtrack. Check it out:
  • Posts: 1,296
    John Logan had Bond undercover as a cage fighter, and that look seals the deal sweetmeat.
  • Posts: 4,599
    Who ever produced that Adobe advert musty be a real Bond fan, its very clever. The pastal shades and setting for the chase are very SF and so is the music. There is a lot of love gone into that, thanks for sharing.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    Who's the girl? Get her in the next Bond film asap please.
  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    Posts: 7,982

    HAHA! The first time I read that I thought you said "Adele ad", then I watched the video expecting to see Adele pop up.
  • Posts: 1,296
    It cut away just before we could see the goon hanging on the hook, just like Sam Mendes would do. :)
  • ClarkDevlinClarkDevlin Martinis, Girls and Guns
    Posts: 15,423
    The man playing the spy does behave like Daniel Craig, even when he's waiting for the receptionist to get back to him.
  • Red_SnowRed_Snow Australia
    Posts: 2,494
    Idris Elba reveals he wants to do a comedy film...leaving his rumoured James Bond role in question

    'It is always quite grumpy characters, so I wouldn’t mind having a bit of a laugh and maybe a bit of romance to spread it about a bit.'

    Idris' comments comes after he claimed the possibility of him stepping into Daniel Craig's Bond shoes was the 'wildest rumour in the world'.

    Asked about the never ending speculation, Idris admitted: 'If I'm really honest, man, I think I'm too old for that, I can't be running around in cars and ladies and martinis – who wants to do that? It sounds terrible!' he laughed.

    Idris added that it will be people power that secures him the coveted part if it does happen.

    'If it were to happen, it would be the will of a nation, because there's not been talks of me in the studios about any of that. But everywhere I go, people want that to happen,' he added.

    Idris has been batting away the rumours for years, admitting in 2015 that he blamed his pal and current Bond Daniel for starting the speculation.

    'Daniel Craig actually set the rumour off,' he said at the time.

    'About four years ago he said "Idris Elba would be a great Bond", and then it started to creep. I blame Daniel.'
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