The Syrian Refugee Crisis

DragonpolDragonpol Schloss Drache
edited September 2016 in General Discussion Posts: 13,106
syrian-refugee.jpg

I thought that it was time that we had a thread on this major humanitarian crisis of our times. I find it very interesting, along with the fight against ISIS and the so-called Islamic State. I think the source of the problem in Syria needs to be dealt with as a matter of urgency by the international community.

I hope that this will be an interesting discussion and that it can be conducted with the bare minimum of moderator supervision.

Comments

  • stagstag In the thick of it!
    edited September 2016 Posts: 943
    Personally I think the problem & all its facets are beyond the comprehension of most ordinary folks & indeed governments. Just on the point of ISIS, if we were to defeat them (is defeating a terror organisation which is embedded in many countries using a traditional military approach possible?) then something else will spring up to take its place. It's a bit like playing whack a mole. If a purely military solution is not a viable option then how is the issue to be approached?

    Until the situation is settled (if it ever will) then the ordinary peoples of those countries affected will continue to suffer.
  • edited September 2016 Posts: 932
    I still think Obama should've bombed the hell out of Bashar al-Assad's military targets (and maybe ground troops sent in to fight Islamic State), but Obama chickened out--I think he wants to be known as the "Peace President", and I'm an American who voted for the guy. Yeah, the argument was, which nasty people would fill the vacuum left by Assad if you take him out, and who could the U.S. trust there. Still, sometimes doing something is better than doing nothing. That might've reduced some of the emigrees from Syria--in most of the last year or more, about 47% of refugees were Syrian. As to people killed in Syria, one report is that, during much of last year, Assad’s forces killed about 8,000 people, while Islamic State killed less, about 1,100. Yes, countries can open their borders to the flood of refugees, but overcrowding can cause problems, and I know it played a role in the Brexit. But, as destructive and tragic as war and military conflict can be, done well it can sometimes prevent future suffering. Even a year ago, they found traces of chemical weapons in Syria that Assad had not previously declared, so who knows if they still have some.
  • edited September 2016 Posts: 382
    I think we should have backed Assad. I'm all for dictators in Islamic countries who keep fundamentalist Islam at bay. Democracy is incompatible with most Islamic interpretations and with shia and sunnis killing each other over who was the last prophet, what is the hell is going to happen when the dictator falls. But we already know this; Iraq, Libya, Egypt all far better off (and Europe) pre toppling.

    More and more, the 'refugees' are from Africa now. Rescue boats ferry them across to Italy when they're only a few miles off the Libya coast. I understand these people wanting a better life, but that does not mean I think they should be doing this and relying on the infinite goodwill of the people who rescue them. We should save these people but not take them to Europe, take them back to Libya. Meanwhile destroy all these 'vessels' that are being used. Colonise Libya if necessary. It's an absolute wreck partly thanks to the vanity of Mr Cameron and we should help rebuild it.
  • I think we live in the "Now", and we have to stick our heads together and start coming up with a solution. It is no good to kick this discussion off with heavily fingerpointing to other governments and a lot of flashback analysis of what has been done wrong in the past. We live in the present.

    Regarding solutions, I think the Syria (refugee) crisis is now, at this very moment, entirely complex. There are no simple solutions anymore. What I do wish to point out, is the fact that an Arab Spring happened. And not as something out of the blue. Regardless of backing Muslim autocracies and dictatorships in the Middle-East, sooner or later they will fall anyway. If those dictators and autocratic sheiks and kings do not invest in a long-term vision that includes education and prosperity for the young people, another Arab Spring will happen...with or without Western aide.

    Back to a solution...wars never have easy solutions. One side will evntually prevail

  • Another article that only tries to find the blaim for all this, and that doesn't start looking at the future and how the current mess can be resolved.
  • I'm guessing another conspiracy theory? Sick of that crap.
  • DragonpolDragonpol Schloss Drache
    Posts: 13,106
    I'm guessing another conspiracy theory? Sick of that crap.

    It certainly reads that way. What we need most of all is the real, honest, unvarnished truth.

  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    I'm guessing another conspiracy theory? Sick of that crap.

    It certainly reads that way. What we need most of all is the real, honest, unvarnished truth.
    I'm afraid geopolitics precludes that. Therefore it will be up to the individual to draw his/her own conclusions based on the competing stories and narratives, and look for patterns over a period of time.
  • DragonpolDragonpol Schloss Drache
    Posts: 13,106
    bondjames wrote: »
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    I'm guessing another conspiracy theory? Sick of that crap.

    It certainly reads that way. What we need most of all is the real, honest, unvarnished truth.
    I'm afraid geopolitics precludes that. Therefore it will be up to the individual to draw his/her own conclusions based on the competing stories and narratives, and look for patterns over a period of time.

    You're probably right on that and we're no doubt far too close to events to get to the real objective "truth" of the matter.
  • edited September 2016 Posts: 11,119
    I'm guessing another conspiracy theory? Sick of that crap.

    Agreed. Sadly, not many individuals these days have the education nor the expertise to draw nuanced conclusions and look for patterns.
  • I'm guessing another conspiracy theory? Sick of that crap.

    Agreed. Sadly, not many individuals these days have the education nor the expertise to draw nuanced conclusions and look for patterns.

    I think that's a rather elitist view. Often the best wisdom comes from the man on the street.
  • DragonpolDragonpol Schloss Drache
    Posts: 13,106
    I'm guessing another conspiracy theory? Sick of that crap.

    It could be Assad/Putin-backed propaganda against the Western democracies as well.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger regnifrednuhT
    Posts: 34,684
    Hasn t the west allegedly dropped 40 000 bombs on the IS ? Doesn t look like it had any effect...
  • DragonpolDragonpol Schloss Drache
    Posts: 13,106
    Hasn t the west allegedly dropped 40 000 bombs on the IS ? Doesn t look like it had any effect...

    "Boots on the ground" may be the answer, but it's a complicated area, with Assad, the Russians and the Western democracies all involved.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited September 2016 Posts: 23,883
    Assad has a very well armed military. This war has been going on for 5+ years. Has anyone asked where the other side got their arms from? Where they continue to get their arms from?

    With war, don't start it or exacerbate it/support it unless you can finish it quickly, because the longer it drags on, the more casualties and catastrophe ensue.

    At the present time, Assad is entrenched. Those hoping for his overthrow should reconsider, in the near term at least, until the humanitarian situation can be stabilized. Then a discussion can be had about how to replace him in a way that suits all the various 'powers'. The status quo (pre-2011) did not have this kind of loss of life or crisis.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger regnifrednuhT
    Posts: 34,684
    Right. The biggest and most advanced military machine on the planet cannot fight a bunch of bearded savages. Tells me something.
  • DragonpolDragonpol Schloss Drache
    Posts: 13,106
    So the Arab Spring of 2011 is to blame for all of this then?
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger regnifrednuhT
    Posts: 34,684
    Spring?
  • DragonpolDragonpol Schloss Drache
    Posts: 13,106
    Spring?

    In believe that is what it is called.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 17,248
    I'm not sure I like this thread. It's going well... now. But how about in five or ten pages from now? Ah well, we'll see.
  • "What is Aleppo?" - Gary Johnson
  • DragonpolDragonpol Schloss Drache
    edited September 2016 Posts: 13,106
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    I'm not sure I like this thread. It's going well... now. But how about in five or ten pages from now? Ah well, we'll see.

    That's why I put that proviso in the OP. I hope our members will bear this in mind when posting to keep the debate going.

    I think that there are fascinating aspects of espionage in the Syrian Refugee Crisis too and I hope to touch on these soon.
  • MrcogginsMrcoggins Following in the footsteps of Quentin Quigley.
    Posts: 3,133
    Be carefull what you touch Draggers less your fingers get burnt .
  • DragonpolDragonpol Schloss Drache
    Posts: 13,106
    Mrcoggins wrote: »
    Be carefull what you touch Draggers less your fingers get burnt .

    Yes, I know that it's a sensitive subject but I don't want to shy away from it just because of that.

  • DragonpolDragonpol Schloss Drache
    edited September 2016 Posts: 13,106
    There's a 45 minute news special on BBC Radio 4 now on the Syrian Refugee Crisis if anyone is interested in hearing it.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger regnifrednuhT
    Posts: 34,684
  • DragonpolDragonpol Schloss Drache
    Posts: 13,106
    I wonder what the situation is with the refugee crisis is now?

    Sadly the fickle rolling news media seems to have moved on from this story but I assume that the humanitarian crisis is is going and still in need of a solution?
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