SPECTRE "car chase" - SPOILERS!!!!

edited October 2015 in SPECTRE News & Spoilers Posts: 4,599
OK, this seems to be a hot topic and, for me, is a focus point on why the tone of the movie does not work. Mods feel free to delete if felt to specific and already covered.
Many have pointed out that that the Bond series evolves and reflects the values and norms within the time frame it was made and this is a perfect example. He is driving a mega expensive prototype in Rome, chased by a guy who has just popped someones eyes out. Rather than focus all his skills and time on that task, he decides to phone a colleague (much like so many drivers on the roads these days), the topic of the call is not urgent in comparison the the car chase. (he could have put a call in to Q to find out what the buttons did?). Moneypenny takes the call and, whilst trying to deal with it, realises she is peckish and searches the fridge for a snack (working from home, flexibe hours, multi-tasking). Being a traditionalist, the car chase for me is an opportunity for exciting stunts, tension and for our characters to be stretched in their abilities (the French Connection school of car chases) so its a done deal that I would would at least raise an eyebrow to the phone call. But I fully realise that others would think that this fits in with the "Roger Moore" light tough, hence the opportunity to discuss.
«1

Comments

  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    Even though I was a tad disappointed I did enjoy the chase at the time.

    But in the cold light of day and reading your comments it is quite difficult to defend the phone call.

    I did remember thinking during the scene that it seemed more like they were just following each other round the city and I was watching a Top Gear segment rather than a high octane dramatic Bond chase.

    I did like the bit where Bond smashes through the roof of a parked car and it did get better when they moved onto the river but overall I was expecting something much more like the QOS chase only on a bigger scale and with decent editing.
  • Posts: 1,098
    Eh!......what car chase?.......i've seen Spectre...........but i do remember 2 cars following each other at night around the streets of Rome, with no one around, and Bond was on the telephone most of the time....and oh yes something did happen at the end.........but this was no car chase.........for a car chase go see the film 'Ronin', and you will see what i mean.
  • Posts: 4,599
    title of thread amended out of respect for that last very fair comment
  • aaron819aaron819 Switzerland
    Posts: 1,208
    I know many of you won't agree with me but I think the car chase was great.
    I actually think it fitted in perfectly with the Rome scenes - for me it shouldn't have been more action pumped - it was plenty. I loved the intercuts with MP. The music goes great for the chase.
    But then we have Mexico and Austria which are really pumped with action.
  • Posts: 1,098
    aaron819 wrote: »
    I know many of you won't agree with me but I think the car chase was great.
    I actually think it fitted in perfectly with the Rome scenes - for me it shouldn't have been more action pumped - it was plenty. I loved the intercuts with MP. The music goes great for the chase.
    But then we have Mexico and Austria which are really pumped with action.

    Yes.............the car scene in Rome was fine, BUT it probably wasn't what most people were expecting.......thats all!

  • Posts: 94
    I liked it, it was 'fun' and sometimes I think that's a concept that people forget about.I was expecting a QoS style intense chase but was pleasantly surprised by something a little different it'd be pretty dull if every chase was the same.
  • DariusDarius UK
    edited October 2015 Posts: 354
    One thing about the Rome car chase is that it is relatively short. It's become a stalwart Bond staple ever since DAF, and, like Hitchcock's famous cameo, is now expected in every Bond movie. One can almost picture the scriptwriters saying: "Hey, we haven't got a car chase! Where can we fit one in?"

    Without wishing to commit heresy here, I think that the car chase as a dramatic spectacle has become overused and done to the point where nothing really thrills or spills like it used to any more because almost every action/adventure movie since 1968's Bullitt has been there, done that and got the T shirt as far as car chases are concerned. At least in SP, they chose to gently send the car chase up without descending into burlesque (like they did with TMWTGG's slide whistle and MR's winking pigeon). For me, this made a refreshing change. We have Bond weaving his way through the expected motions of the chase while calmly carrying on a phone conversation with Moneypenny in a gesture that clearly says: "Ho-hum, just another day at the office".

    And I have to say that whenever the inevitable car chase commences, this is exactly what I find myself thinking. I daresay the scriptwriters wept when they realised that there were no more car chase worlds left to conquer (without it becoming completely ridiculous), so they decided to satirise it rather than expect the audience to take it too seriously.
  • Posts: 1,068
    I think the Aston sequence is enough and helps the story move on from that amazing meeting. So what do people want? A tricked out Aston could've sliced the Jag if it had been 'loaded' as this particular Jaguar didn't have it's own arsenal and counter measures. A gratuitous scream for ages around the centre of Rome would've been more excuse for even more Moore? I think on revisiting it the 'chase' for Bond was just a run for cover to take stock and digest the intelligence he's just learned a point made by M in the film. No point cutting one of the serpents off Medusas head Bond needs to find the neck.
  • Posts: 1,098
    andmcit wrote: »
    I think the Aston sequence is enough and helps the story move on from that amazing meeting. So what do people want? A tricked out Aston could've sliced the Jag if it had been 'loaded' as this particular Jaguar didn't have it's own arsenal and counter measures. A gratuitous scream for ages around the centre of Rome would've been more excuse for even more Moore? I think on revisiting it the 'chase' for Bond was just a run for cover to take stock and digest the intelligence he's just learned a point made by M in the film. No point cutting one of the serpents off Medusas head Bond needs to find the neck.

    I think people's somewhat disappointment arises form the fact that so much was made of the Aston Martin DB10 by the media, in the months leading upto the films release.

    I also remember quite a lot was made of the BMW in Goldeneye............but in the film itself, it was barely used!

  • Posts: 485
    patb wrote:
    He is driving a mega expensive prototype in Rome, chased by a guy who has just popped someones eyes out. Rather than focus all his skills and time on that task, he decides to phone a colleague (much like so many drivers on the roads these days), the topic of the call is not urgent in comparison the the car chase. (he could have put a call in to Q to find out what the buttons did?).
    Even though I was a tad disappointed I did enjoy the chase at the time.

    But in the cold light of day and reading your comments it is quite difficult to defend the phone call.

    Look upon it this way...he's just discovered his deceased foster brother is alive and well and running a terrorist organisation. Only natural he wants answers fast!
  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy My Secret Lair
    Posts: 13,384
    He should have called Jeremy Kyle. :D
  • I haven't seen the movie yet but from what I am reading, I am still looking forward to this sequence. Probably more than before. I rather agree with @Darius, "the car chase" has become this thing where it has to be dramatic tension and just become a staple of most of the Bond series, and from what I read I like that they didn't just focus on the chase, it was Bond taking it easy while being chased, literally as if it was another day at the office.

    I also agree that most people probably got hyped up because the scene was really played up during the making of the film, especially since before they started filming when they introduced the DB10.
  • Posts: 1,314
    My main gripe was that the chase was made up of s series of handbrake turns and little else.
  • Posts: 4,599
    "Ho-hum, just another day at the office".
    All well and good but it undermines any threat that Hinx is meant to bring to the movie and when you start using such gestures (I don't think they did, I think is just badly done ), where do you draw the line? "Ho-hum, just another torture scene"
    "Ho-hum, just another count down" etc etc. If Bond is blaze about the situation he finds himself in, then why should the audience not feel the same?
    Excitement is a cornerstone of Bond and if you can't get excited about an Aston and Jag chasing around the streets of Rome, then when is the audience meant to get excited. I agree the car chase is a bit of a cliche so either do it in an unusual way (the tank in GE for example) or just don't have one. But trying to subvert cliches by being ironic is not the way to go as it undermines everything that Bond movies stand for.
  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy My Secret Lair
    Posts: 13,384
    Although I've noticed most of the humour is in the first half of the film, including
    the car chase, but in the second half. It gets a little more serious, no laughs on the
    Train, or in the villains lair, or in the final showdown. Or at least a lot less humour.
  • Posts: 485
    It was a combination of a car chase, an info dump to advance the plot and an opportunity for some comedy. I fail to see why it exasperates some people so.

    I'm dying to have a further Bond car chase where he has a Bond Girl by his side to make quips to like GF, DAF, TSWLM. Probably haven't had this since TLD so him chatting to Moneypenny was a nice contrast to the QOS chase.
  • DariusDarius UK
    Posts: 354
    patb wrote: »
    "Ho-hum, just another day at the office".
    All well and good but it undermines any threat that Hinx is meant to bring to the movie and when you start using such gestures (I don't think they did, I think is just badly done ), where do you draw the line? "Ho-hum, just another torture scene"
    "Ho-hum, just another count down" etc etc. If Bond is blaze about the situation he finds himself in, then why should the audience not feel the same?
    Excitement is a cornerstone of Bond and if you can't get excited about an Aston and Jag chasing around the streets of Rome, then when is the audience meant to get excited. I agree the car chase is a bit of a cliche so either do it in an unusual way (the tank in GE for example) or just don't have one. But trying to subvert cliches by being ironic is not the way to go as it undermines everything that Bond movies stand for.

    I didn't mean irony, as there isn't any in this sequence. I said satire, which is entirely different. At least it's not burlesque, like in MR and TSWLM.

    Surely though, if Bond movies are about excitement, we can find other ways to achieve this without having to come up with different non-car vehicles to have the inevitable chase in. Take CR, for instance. This movie generates plenty of excitement (by means of sheer character conflict, tension and suspense) -- enough excitement, in fact, to make the top of many people's "Best of Bond" lists -- and yet it does not feature a car chase, except for a brief pursuit lasting scant seconds that is entirely essential to the plot and not merely thrown in gratuitously because it is expected.

    What I am saying is that a car chase is not really exciting when it isn't really needed by the plot and the audience are aware that it is included just because it has become a staple ingredient.
  • edited October 2015 Posts: 4,599
    So you are saying that the car chase in SP is satirical? It seems to be over-thinking an action movie to me. When you have such an amazing back drop, amazing cars, a great henchman etc, leave the phone calls and fridge checks out and create a thrilling, exciting car chase.
    Please don't think I am having a go at you personally Darius as I always respect and enjoy your posts. But this could be an example of fans wanting to enjoy the movie so much , they want it both ways. If the car chase had been fantastic and up in the same league as Ronin, Bulitt etc, SP fans rightly would have praised it. But rather than accept the fact that its just not in that league, it becomes "satirical" and , therefore was not even trying to be an exciting sequence within the movie. So it wins either way and is exempt from critique
    PS (sorry) if the chase was between 2 fiat 500s or a couple of wrecks then I can see that, but when they are two serious supercars (that have been marketed to death) , they deserve a serious chase scene.
  • DariusDarius UK
    edited October 2015 Posts: 354
    @patb

    Likewise.

    Yes, indeed, two wonderful supercars do need hyping, but it at least makes a change to see such hyping treated in a slightly different way.

    At least in not going OTT for a car chase to rival or surpass Bullitt or Ronin, the naysayers can't accuse Bond of becoming a parody of itself.
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    Matt007 wrote: »
    My main gripe was that the chase was made up of s series of handbrake turns and little else.

    Indeed. It felt more like watching the Stig trying to set a time round a Rome street circuit.

    Even in Roger's comedy car chases with racist stereotyped Louisiana Sherrifs and French taxi drivers there were still some amazing stunts in there.

    I know Remy Julienne must be on his last legs (is he even still alive?) but is L'Equipe Julienne still going in some way? They always came up with something original.
  • doubleoegodoubleoego #LightWork
    Posts: 11,139
    He should have called Jeremy Kyle. :D

    Bond would need to have some serious aftercare with Graham

    :))
  • AVBAVB
    Posts: 97
    The phone call was a 'fun' touch on paper but probably not worth the way it decimated all of the tension in the 'chase'. It was essentially two VERY expensive cars trying not to get a scratch. Very uninventive and risk averse, like much of the action in this one.

    The best moments in this film weren't the dull set pieces at all, but rather, off the top of my head;

    The PTS tracking shot - wonderful!
    Bond snooping on Sciarra meeting and then shooting them.
    Bond/Bellucci at her villa.
    Bond/White scene - fantastic!
    L'Americain scene.
    The torture scene
    Waltz showing Madelaine cctv footage of Bond and White's showdown.
    Fight with Hinx on the train, which was the first time I actually thought Bond was going to lose - very well done and perhaps could have been longer.

    The helicopter fight was bizarrely empty and fake looking, the car chase pointless, The plane/car chase bland, the morocco base escape easy - no sense of danger there - Bond just pinged them off like he was playing COD. The London finale was crap. There's alot to like about the film in parts but whatever tension and mystery Mendes built, however good Craig and Seydoux were, it was largely undone by a boring set piece that looked cheap anyway, or Mendes playing for laughs. If those moments were shorter or cut we could have had more interesting things like the ones mentioned, or more hand to hand combat scenes which are always a joy.
  • Posts: 4,599
    yes, humour is good and many wanted it back but its not just the quality of the one liner but the placement and context,
    the car chase came directly after the SPECRE meeting scene which for me, was one of the best with genuine tension and fear (you can see it in Bonds face) so escaping that fear via the car chase could have carried on that tension etc instead of going for a lighter touch. This is an example of the variable tone that some , including myself, have struggled with
  • doubleoegodoubleoego #LightWork
    Posts: 11,139
    Had the car chase had the serious tone of QoS' PTS then that would have paved the way for me to abuse the rewind button when this thing comes out on home release.

    From Lucia arriving home to Bond making his escape and doing a running and jumping diving roll to get to his db10 was just spectacular stuff.

    I actually really like the db10/jaguar chase and it's really more enjoyable after the 3rd viewing but still, like all things that can be improved, it would have been better for me had the chase had the same intensity as the PTS to QoS.
  • AVBAVB
    Posts: 97
    The QoS chase was ferocious, warts and all. I don't actually think the setting and context warranted that intensity, but for sure it should have been more. Some episodes of Top Gear have more intensity!

    I might have preferred a clever little cat and mouse chase instead, but alas.
  • CraigMooreOHMSSCraigMooreOHMSS Dublin, Ireland
    Posts: 8,009
    I agree, I think a straighter approach to the chase would have been better. There's humour and then there's stupidity and it crossed over into the latter a bit too much.

    I also think it would have been so much better if we didn't know White was The Pale King before we got to the snowy cabin. I know we had already seen it in the trailer but it would still have built some anticipation for the following sequence.

    Going back to the chase though - all in all, pretty pointless. I am not a fan of phonecalls during action sequences in general. An email with The Pale King's location would have been fine.
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    edited October 2015 Posts: 9,117
    AVB wrote: »
    The QoS chase was ferocious, warts and all. I don't actually think the setting and context warranted that intensity, but for sure it should have been more. Some episodes of Top Gear have more intensity!

    I might have preferred a clever little cat and mouse chase instead, but alas.

    Well you got the mouse later on at least. What are you moaning about?

    I do agree with most of your points in your earlier posts above regarding most of the action scenes. By far the best was the Hinx fight in which Craig's Bond for once looks in serious trouble. For me it spoiled it somewhat that it was Madeline that saved the day. I would have preferred it if Bond had some how dug himself out of it with his wits.

    Better fight than FRWL? Not quite. Second best of the series? I'd need to see it a few more times yet. It might be but at the moment I still feel the bloody brutality of the CR stairwell fight just shades it into third. Despite taking a pasting Bond is not bleeding and quite fit to get stuck into Madeline 2 minutes afterwards. Probably better than the CR PTS, GE Alec v Bond and TLD Necros v Green 4 which are the other standout fights of the series for me.

  • MyNameIsMyBondRnMyNameIsMyBondRn WhereYouLeastExpectMeToBe
    Posts: 221
    The only thing with the car chase that was a little over the top, was the number of slides, actually; the tyres needed to be at a certain temperature to do the slides at ease, in relation to the actual speed of the cars, and the surface on the road, it was wet and slippery and probably needed some retakes to fit in nicely.
  • SatoriousSatorious Brushing up on a little Danish
    Posts: 231
    After such an intense set-up with the meeting, I feel we needed more of an intense car chase also (perhaps in the vein of the second Bourne movie or Ronin as already suggested), rather than a return to Roger Moore era humour. Would you really find time for a chummy conversation with one of your colleagues if a brutal assassin was trying to take you down? The editing was also somewhat ponderous - I was reminded of TWINE's uninspired action editing during this sequence - some of the B roll footage looked far more exciting.
Sign In or Register to comment.