Is SPECTRE actually the Illuminati?

edited July 2016 in SPECTRE Posts: 4,400
Considering SPECTRE are returning in the latest Bond film, I thought the time is ripe to discuss what type of role the organisation will have in a modern context.

In the earlier Connery films, SPECTRE had a rather large ambit but in the most part where a terrorist organisation. For the time they were used as a proxy to essentially avoid making the Bond films overly political. Opposed to having the Russians appear as the villains time and time again, SPECTRE presented themselves as an apolitical threat. Will SPECTRE still serve this function?

I see the organisation going one of two ways:

1. I don't think the version of SPECTRE used in those films would be correct in a modern more opaque political and social climate. Furthermore, I think Christopher Nolan's Dark Knight films already went down this route of presenting a modern day terrorist group wrecking chaos in 'Batman Begins' and 'The Dark Knight Rises' with The League of Shadows. In many ways the League were a take on groups like Al Quadia; where there leaders are essentially zealots with ideological motives and their followers have a religious devotion to their cause. In comparison SPECTRE from those early Fleming novels and the films are a little more quaint, so should the modern SPECTRE evolve and become a League of Shadows type group? Possibly with Blofeld worshipped by the members as a God?

2. The other option I see available is the possibility that SPECTRE are not a terrorist group and instead a long-standing secret organisation that have been manipulating the world order from behind closed doors for a while. There has always been talk that such groups exist and have there own rituals and ceremonies like the Freemasons or the Illuminati. The Illuminati of course have their known iconography with the eye in the pyramid and SPECTRE have their Octopus rings - this would lead some credence to the idea. Could SPECTRE be such a group? Much like in Stanley Kubrick's 'Eyes Wide Shut' the organisation could be depicted as a powerful group of elite people, big CEOs, world leaders etc who are in control and can manipulate current affairs to there own satisfaction. In this sense Blofeld would we the chief architect of the group. Furthermore, if the do go down this route I don't think SPECTRE will be the type of organisation who make demands on world leaders or hollow out volcanoes as anonymity would be the name of there game. In this sense the head of the British secret service could have ties to such a group.

What do we think?
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Comments

  • Something along these lines

  • 007InVT007InVT Classified
    edited April 2015 Posts: 893
    I like your second hypothesis. In the modern age, SPECTRE could easily be a cabal of shadowy bankers manipulating the markets, military and industrial hacking and probably some pretty unsavory personal stuff. They'd be judges, political leaders, hackers, royalty and even religious figures.
  • 007InVT007InVT Classified
    edited April 2015 Posts: 893
    Professor James Chapman made a good point in his article: http://theconversation.com/new-bond-film-promises-to-raise-the-spectre-of-ian-fleming-35069
    The three Daniel Craig Bond films so far have given us a banker to the world’s terrorists (Le Chiffre in Casino Royale), a multi-national corporation involved in destabilising governments for profit (Quantum of Solace) and a cyber-terrorist with a personal vendetta against the British Secret Service (Skyfall). None of these villains had a pool of piranhas or a giant henchman with steel teeth.
  • suavejmfsuavejmf Harrogate, North Yorkshire, England
    Posts: 5,131
    Bring back the Shark Pools!
  • Posts: 1,478
    Just bring back the old style gratuitous sex and violence. I'm tired of this overthinking the 'new SPECTRE.' I like the SC style of Bond of films. Not ridiculous like the RM years, but a little fanciful, just enough to strain credulity, but fun. After all, Bond is a fictional character who lives in a fictional world. Again, when in doubt, return to the source material.
  • DannyBoy1994DannyBoy1994 Wales
    Posts: 21
    Personally, I'm not in favour of SPECTRE being a new world order, illuminati, Templar etc style organisation, as I believe it's become a bit of a cliche in the current era. It becomes a bit repetitive when you have all these organisations all striving for world domination. Their methods may be different, but all strive for the same thing. They all essentially see humanity as corrupt and incapable of doing things for themselves and believe they, as the elite, can run things better. It just gets sooooooo boring (it also gives conspiracy theorists more things to complain about).
    I would much prefer it if they went back to the books and made SPECTRE as Fleming intended: a secret organisation that does the things it does simply because it can, not because of any ideology or dream of a new world order. SPECTRE would become the middle man for the real terrorist groups of world, providing weapons, stealing intelligence and selling to the highest bidder, kidnapping and extortion, assassination ect.
    The CEO's, criminal masterminds and whatever other people that would be control of this SPECTRE wouldn't be working towards a NWO, but instead doing it for themselves and simply because they could.
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    Personally, I'm not in favour of SPECTRE being a new world order, illuminati, Templar etc style organisation, as I believe it's become a bit of a cliche in the current era. It becomes a bit repetitive when you have all these organisations all striving for world domination. Their methods may be different, but all strive for the same thing. They all essentially see humanity as corrupt and incapable of doing things for themselves and believe they, as the elite, can run things better. It just gets sooooooo boring (it also gives conspiracy theorists more things to complain about).
    I would much prefer it if they went back to the books and made SPECTRE as Fleming intended: a secret organisation that does the things it does simply because it can, not because of any ideology or dream of a new world order. SPECTRE would become the middle man for the real terrorist groups of world, providing weapons, stealing intelligence and selling to the highest bidder, kidnapping and extortion, assassination ect.
    The CEO's, criminal masterminds and whatever other people that would be control of this SPECTRE wouldn't be working towards a NWO, but instead doing it for themselves and simply because they could.

    I don't think the revamped organisation will be too dissimilar, regard it's objectives and aims, to the one of old. I see them being about power and control. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if they retroactively make or imply that Silva is a SPECTRE agent, or affiliate. His talk of 'Destabilising a multi-national by manipulating stocks, interrupting spy satellites, rigging elections, all to the highest bidder' strike me as actions easily attributable to a new, modern SPECTRE.
  • DannyBoy1994DannyBoy1994 Wales
    Posts: 21
    I don't think the revamped organisation will be too dissimilar, regard it's objectives and aims, to the one of old. I see them being about power and control. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if they retroactively make or imply that Silva is a SPECTRE agent, or affiliate. His talk of 'Destabilising a multi-national by manipulating stocks, interrupting spy satellites, rigging elections, all to the highest bidder' strike me as actions easily attributable to a new, modern SPECTRE.
    I agree, from what we've seen already this appears to be the case. With regards to Silva being in SPECTRE or an affiliate, it would certainly help to explain some of the plot details of Skyfall in the London scenes of the movie. Silva, in exchange for providing his services to SPECTRE, is rewarded with their resources to help him eliminate M. They provide the men and their police uniforms, the details of MI6s underground base and the planting of bombs in the tube to create a diversion. I could definitely see it working.
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    I don't think the revamped organisation will be too dissimilar, regard it's objectives and aims, to the one of old. I see them being about power and control. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if they retroactively make or imply that Silva is a SPECTRE agent, or affiliate. His talk of 'Destabilising a multi-national by manipulating stocks, interrupting spy satellites, rigging elections, all to the highest bidder' strike me as actions easily attributable to a new, modern SPECTRE.
    I agree, from what we've seen already this appears to be the case. With regards to Silva being in SPECTRE or an affiliate, it would certainly help to explain some of the plot details of Skyfall in the London scenes of the movie. Silva, in exchange for providing his services to SPECTRE, is rewarded with their resources to help him eliminate M. They provide the men and their police uniforms, the details of MI6s underground base and the planting of bombs in the tube to create a diversion. I could definitely see it working.

    This wouldn't surprise me. They must be well aware that a lot of fans had issues with this particular aspect and it would go some way to rectifying it, although it's still a head-scratcher when you take is as a standalone film. I think it's fair to say that the organisation must've been in operation for some time, at least as far back as CR.
  • DannyBoy1994DannyBoy1994 Wales
    Posts: 21
    I think it's fair to say that the organisation must've been in operation for some time, at least as far back as CR.
    Again, I completely agree. As I'm sure you're aware, in CR Mr. White refers to his organisation on 2(?) occasions. I suspect the original plan was to introduce SPECTRE in the sequel or at least refer to it as "the organisation" again, but as we know the Mcclory dispute was ongoing and we ended up with Quantum and QofS.
  • Posts: 14,799
    Personally, I'm not in favour of SPECTRE being a new world order, illuminati, Templar etc style organisation, as I believe it's become a bit of a cliche in the current era. It becomes a bit repetitive when you have all these organisations all striving for world domination. Their methods may be different, but all strive for the same thing. They all essentially see humanity as corrupt and incapable of doing things for themselves and believe they, as the elite, can run things better. It just gets sooooooo boring (it also gives conspiracy theorists more things to complain about).
    I would much prefer it if they went back to the books and made SPECTRE as Fleming intended: a secret organisation that does the things it does simply because it can, not because of any ideology or dream of a new world order. SPECTRE would become the middle man for the real terrorist groups of world, providing weapons, stealing intelligence and selling to the highest bidder, kidnapping and extortion, assassination ect.
    The CEO's, criminal masterminds and whatever other people that would be control of this SPECTRE wouldn't be working towards a NWO, but instead doing it for themselves and simply because they could.

    I am all for a return to Fleming's SPECTRE and I think this is what we will have. That said, I think there will be a hint of Eyes Wide Shut's sex cult in it. At least symbolically.
  • edited April 2015 Posts: 462
    I think it's fair to say that the organisation must've been in operation for some time, at least as far back as CR.
    Again, I completely agree. As I'm sure you're aware, in CR Mr. White refers to his organisation on 2(?) occasions. I suspect the original plan was to introduce SPECTRE in the sequel or at least refer to it as "the organisation" again, but as we know the Mcclory dispute was ongoing and we ended up with Quantum and QofS.

    But White himself never stated that he worked for QUANTUM. Whose to say that White hasn't been playing both sides?

  • Posts: 14,799
    CrzChris4 wrote: »
    I think it's fair to say that the organisation must've been in operation for some time, at least as far back as CR.
    Again, I completely agree. As I'm sure you're aware, in CR Mr. White refers to his organisation on 2(?) occasions. I suspect the original plan was to introduce SPECTRE in the sequel or at least refer to it as "the organisation" again, but as we know the Mcclory dispute was ongoing and we ended up with Quantum and QofS.

    But White himself never stated that he worked for QUANTUM. Whose to say that White hasn't been playing both sides?

    Or simply that Quantum is a proto SPECTRE like in the novels SMERSH was. Or a sort of puppet club. Or merely a parallel organization shating some of the same members. Whose to say Quantum was the only group of villains to have the same idea.
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,328
    This is purely speculation, but I like to think that Blofeld was unhappy with Quantum's failures in CR and QOS so he took it upon himself and enacted a hostile takeover and took over Quantum and changed it into SPECTRE.
  • M_BaljeM_Balje Amsterdam, Netherlands
    edited April 2015 Posts: 4,416
    He said the people he work with trust be more inportent then money. My opnion isn't changed: Historie wil be repeat in those days. Closer to second option with a bit of first. But i prefer to reference to OHMSS and TMND then TDK.
  • Posts: 48
    The movie is named as Spectre but the head of this fictional terrorist organization is not in the movie, it is not strange ? Christoph Waltz admitted that rumors going around regarding his portrayal Blofeld is untrue!
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,328
    Alexedward wrote: »
    The movie is named as Spectre but the head of this fictional terrorist organization is not in the movie, it is not strange ? Christoph Waltz admitted that rumors going around regarding his portrayal Blofeld is untrue!
    He could just be lying.
  • Posts: 14,799
    Murdock wrote: »
    Alexedward wrote: »
    The movie is named as Spectre but the head of this fictional terrorist organization is not in the movie, it is not strange ? Christoph Waltz admitted that rumors going around regarding his portrayal Blofeld is untrue!
    He could just be lying.

    Just like Naomie Harris did about Moneypenny.

    Also, Waltz as Blofeld makes sense. It certainly is a more inspired choice than what many suggested in these forums, which often seemed to be the entire cast of Breaking Bad.
  • Posts: 48
    I wish he play the character of Bond's old school villain Blofeld, if not then the name of the movie doesn't make any sense to me at all.
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    Posts: 17,727
    Alexedward wrote: »
    I wish he play the character of Bond's old school villain Blofeld, if not then the name of the movie doesn't make any sense to me at all.

    Perhaps he will only be a spectre at our shoulder?
  • edited May 2015 Posts: 2,594
    I watched a couple of videos where a man and a woman in separate videos analysed the trailers which were enjoyable to watch but then speculated that the head of SPECTRE could be Bond's brother, suggesting that this person is the chap on the right side of the photograph whose face had been burnt out by the Skyfall fire. My god, I hope this is not the case. I'm all for more character movement in Bond films but that doesn't mean they have to bring family members into the fold and make them a part of criminal organisations. This is just taking things too far - exaggerated bollocks. I don't even want Hans to be the head of SPECTRE.

    Infact, I hope we don't meet this head man or woman until Bond 25 or Bond 26. Every Connery film dealt with SPECTRE with the exception of Goldfinger which I felt was somewhat overkill. I hope Craig will do Bond 26 (won't be getting my hopes up for this one though) and that no.25 will actually be a standalone film like Goldfinger with nothing to do with SPECTRE, and that 26 will wrap up SPECTRE, or at least give us a fairly stable conclusion regarding their demise but with some room for resurrection and continuation perhaps when the new half Chinese/African man ;) takes over as Bond and continues a couple of battles with SPECTRE, albeit a SPECTRE with possibly somewhat of an achilles heel due to Craig's Bond inflicting some major damage to it's tentacles but certainly still an organisation that is capable of holding their own.

    After this, maybe they could resurrect themselves after a number of years but following a decent break. Or maybe Craig's Bond should just bring them to an end in his era. Hmmm.... This maybe could be a bit too rushed though, particularly with a supposedly strong, well spread outfit like these people. Afterall, Gardner resurrected them in For Special Services (my favourite Gardner Bond book) if I remember correctly.

    If the head of the organisation is Blofeld, I hope he'll be referred to by his full name, Ernst Stavro Blofeld and not merely called by his surname. Nor do I hope that the name is used too often - maybe just once or twice. I don't really care too much if the head is not named E.S.Blofeld but I guess it would be a kind of nice and a desirable hark back to the old school days.

    I'm not against a modern take of SPECTRE but I would like some of the gothic, sinister elements to remain there like the garden of death in YOLT, the book, and the piranhas in the very loose film adaptation. Infact , I think it's time to introduce Barracuda's to the cinema side of Bond's world. We've had them in the books but never in the films.

    Whether Eon have actually thought this far into the future and consulted the crystal ball, who knows... :)
  • edited May 2015 Posts: 2,594
    Something along these lines


    Fantastic scene. Have seen this film several times. It would be cool if SPECTRE was somewhat gothic and surreal like this what with the Venice carnival costumes and masks but that won't happen as they're essentially a business organisation, and probably not appropriate in the context anyway. Also, you can just imagine how Mendes would be accused unrelentlessly of ripping off Kubrick. The master in the clip has the perfect voice for the new Blofeld or whatever the name of the head of SPECTRE will be, presuming there is even one.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    Make them as close to reality as possible. Make those conspiracy "theorists" look like wackos. It is all just fiction. They have it from films, know what I mean? (For the record, I am sold, Illuminati). :)
  • Posts: 14,799
    Bounine wrote: »
    Something along these lines


    Fantastic scene. Have seen this film several times. It would be cool if SPECTRE was somewhat gothic and surreal like this what with the Venice carnival costumes and masks but that won't happen as they're essentially a business organisation, and probably not appropriate in the context anyway. Also, you can just imagine how Mendes would be accused unrelentlessly of ripping off Kubrick. The master in the clip has the perfect voice for the new Blofeld or whatever the name of the head of SPECTRE will be, presuming there is even one.

    I love that scene too (and the whole movie, an underrated masterpiece IMO). I thought that the meeting scene in the trailer was clearly reminiscent of it.
  • Posts: 48
    I don't think that this movie will finish Spectre organization
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    Alexedward wrote: »
    I don't think that this movie will finish Spectre organization

    If it does, get lost EON.
  • edited May 2015 Posts: 2,594
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Bounine wrote: »
    Something along these lines


    Fantastic scene. Have seen this film several times. It would be cool if SPECTRE was somewhat gothic and surreal like this what with the Venice carnival costumes and masks but that won't happen as they're essentially a business organisation, and probably not appropriate in the context anyway. Also, you can just imagine how Mendes would be accused unrelentlessly of ripping off Kubrick. The master in the clip has the perfect voice for the new Blofeld or whatever the name of the head of SPECTRE will be, presuming there is even one.

    I love that scene too (and the whole movie, an underrated masterpiece IMO). I thought that the meeting scene in the trailer was clearly reminiscent of it.


    Me too. I immediately thought of 'Eyes Wide Shut' when I first saw the trailer.

    On second thought, I definitely don't want SPECTRE to end with the Craig era. Having said that I don't want them to appear in every film either. I hope that Silva proves to have nothing to do with SPECTRE. I'd like to think that Skyfall was a stand alone film with nothing to do with these criminal organisations - Quantum/Spectre. If Craig does two more flicks following SPECTRE, the next should have nothing to do with SPECTRE/Quantum and the last should deal with a temporary wrapping up of Spectre, only to have them resurrect themselves in the future with a new Bond, however, not in the first Bond film with the new actor.

  • Posts: 14,799
    I think three is a good number of films for SPECTRE to appear in. Or four, a tetralogy.
  • edited May 2015 Posts: 2,594
    Yes, but not consecutive films.
  • Posts: 14,799
    Bounine wrote: »
    Yes, but not consecutive films.

    Yes. I'd say: three or four all in all.
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