SPECTRE Production Timeline

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  • JamesPageJamesPage Administrator, Moderator, Director
    edited March 2014 Posts: 1,380
    If that's true than the producers are complete morons when it comes to the soundtrack. How much of the GE theme was incorporated in the soundtrack of the movie? How about DAD, QOS, TND etc. etc.??? How much James Bond theme did CR or QOS have??? Do the producers have selective memories or are they getting senile? I love what they have done with the Bond franchise since 2006 but that doesn't mean I will agree with their every decision.

    They had to bring in someone else to rescore the GE tank chase as Serra wasn't using the Bond theme enough.

    Give the audiences what they want.

    CR deliberately didn't use the Bond theme for obvious reasons:
    http://www.mi6-hq.com/sections/articles/interview_david_arnold_cr2_jbtheme.php3

    The other reasons why the song wasn't woven more in to the soundtrack was simply studio interference in selecting the song/artist late in the game.
  • doubleoegodoubleoego #LightWork
    Posts: 11,139
    Also, CR used motifs and cues from not only YKMN but the actual Bond theme too and QoS used cues from the Bond theme also. Arnold managed to expertly convey in those 3 films how to keep the soundtrack distinctively Bondian without having to explicitly use the theme every 3 mins.
  • edited March 2014 Posts: 5,745
    doubleoego wrote:
    Also, CR used motifs and cues from not only YKMN but the actual Bond theme too and QoS used cues from the Bond theme also. Arnold managed to expertly convey in those 3 films how to keep the soundtrack distinctively Bondian without having to explicitly use the theme every 3 mins.

    Precisely. CR and QoS are excellent film scores even outside of the Bond world. Looking back at TND through DAD you can not even tell they're the same composer. I think Arnold perfectly matched the tone the producers wanted with their re-booted franchise. A splash of the Bond theme but ultimately a new and fantastic sound for the films. That's also why the hired him for TND. Something new with a dash of old.

    Does 'something new with a splash of the past' not perfectly describe their goals with Skyfall? It was Arnold's film to score.
  • edited March 2014 Posts: 2,015
    If that's true
    It's been said publicly by persons involved that Newman and the producers ended not talking directly, but with Mendes as a mediator.
    Note also that the only person to my knowledge who acknowledged publicly there was budget cuts during the shooting is not back (Deakins).

    On the set on one of the biggest French movie where I was demonstrating some previz prototypes, I saw the director just 1/4 of a second away from punching the assistant director in the face, the fist was closed and the motion almost started. Officially, all was fine...
  • Posts: 5,767
    I would have loved to see Barbara Brocolli's & Michael G. Wilson's faces when Skyfall received an Oscar nomination in the 'Best Achievement in Music Written for Motion Pictures, Original Score' category! :)) =)) :bz
    Two words: Halle Berry.

  • SandySandy Somewhere in Europe
    Posts: 4,012
    I like keeping the production news on one thread, I think it is actually easier to get to to stay current and to go back and see the entire line of news as it develops.

    I respect your opinion; you did not enjoy Arnold, that is understood. Plenty of people enjoyed Arnold's work, though. And this is not confirmed news yet, though it looks more likely. They could bring in a totally new composer at the last moment. However, I am happy with Arnold if he does come back.

    For the record, I just asked Arnold, though I doubt I'll get an answer :-\"
  • edited March 2014 Posts: 2,107
    Newman score was good in some parts. But I think Arnold did it better as a whole. His scores kept coming better from movie to a movie.
  • SandySandy Somewhere in Europe
    edited March 2014 Posts: 4,012
    Update on the Arnold affair, he answered me back:

    "I haven't heard those rumours.im assuming as it's Sam Mendes again,it'll be Tom Newman."
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    Thanks, @Sandy. I liked the Newman score, it suited the film and even though he is no Barry, he did well. Would not mind Arnold either. His last two scores were quite good. We shall know soon enough who it is.
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    Posts: 12,459
    Well. I am taken aback a bit by Arnold's response. Of course we ALL assume it would be Newman because of Mendes (or nearly all of us). That answer could be just a brilliant way to be nice, polite, unable to confirm it. It really is the obvious answer if he cannot say that he is coming back yet - and it is the obvious answer if he really has not been contacted yet about returning. Hmmm indeed.

  • SandySandy Somewhere in Europe
    Posts: 4,012
    Well. I am taken aback a bit by Arnold's response. Of course we ALL assume it would be Newman because of Mendes (or nearly all of us). That answer could be just a brilliant way to be nice, polite, unable to confirm it. It really is the obvious answer if he cannot say that he is coming back yet - and it is the obvious answer if he really has not been contacted yet about returning. Hmmm indeed.

    I think he was very clear, also he answered very quickly without hesitation. I was hoping for an ambiguous answer or no answer at all but this direct answer took be aback as well.
  • edited March 2014 Posts: 4,619
    boldfinger wrote:
    Two words: Halle Berry.

    What do you mean by that??? All I'm saying is that it's funny that the producers loved all the Arnold scores yet none of them received an Oscar nomination. Then the first score they are not happy with since GoldenEye gets the first Academy Award nomination for a Bond score since 1977!
    Note also that the only person to my knowledge who acknowledged publicly there was budget cuts during the shooting is not back (Deakins)

    I hope you don't believe that was the reason for Deakins not returning. Even if they knew about Deakins talking to the public about budget cuts and even if they were mad at him for doing that there is no way that had anything to do with his departure from the franchise. I don't think he ever wanted to work on more than one Bond film.

    By the way, there is absolutely no reason for them to hide the budget cuts ever since the movie had it's premiere. They should be proud of making a movie far superior to QOS for probably far less money.
    Sandy wrote:
    Update on the Arnold affair, he answered me back:
    "I haven't heard those rumours.im assuming as it's Sam Mendes again,it'll be Tom Newman."

    So it turnes out all that JamesPage knows is that there was friction between Newman and the producers. He just assumes Newman won't be back and he also just assumes that if Newman won't be back then surely Arnold would return. The fact that they had no talks with Arnold so far speaks volumes.
  • Posts: 1,452
    I've never heard any suggestions that the producers were not happy with Newman's score. Has anyone?

    So Newman had a few creative disagreements, big deal, that's the name of the game, that's filmmaking.

    I'm betting Newman will be back working with Mendes. Deakins clearly feels, from what he's expressed that we know about, that he's done Bond now and he wants to pursue other creative avenues, and no doubt, he's already deeply involved in another film project which might, quite possibly, clash with Bond 24 in terms of filming schedule.
  • Posts: 9,730
    Newman's back really.... sigh this kind of depresses me not gonna lie
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,328
    Risico007 wrote:
    Newman's back really.... sigh this kind of depresses me not gonna lie

    Me too. Though I liked about half of Newman's score. There wasn't enough Bond theme! Dammit, It's a James Bond movie USE THE DAMN THEME! I'm sick of this generic Hans Zimmer sound alike crap.
  • Posts: 4,619
    Murdock wrote:
    Me too. Though I liked about half of Newman's score. There wasn't enough Bond theme! Dammit, It's a James Bond movie USE THE DAMN THEME! I'm sick of this generic Hans Zimmer sound alike crap.

    The Bond theme was used often enough in Skyfall. Seriously, how much more Bond theme do you want? If the composer uses the theme as often as it was used in TND for example then it completely loses it's impact. Why are you so sure Arnold would use the Bond theme more often in Bond 24 anyway? He barely ever used it in CR and QOS...

    I don't care about the Bond theme. All I care about is that the director gets to choose the composer without the producers interfering.
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,328
    The Bond theme was used often enough in Skyfall. Seriously, how much more Bond theme do you want? If the composer uses the theme as often as it was used in TND for example then it completely loses it's impact. Why are you so sure Arnold would use the Bond theme more often in Bond 24 anyway? He barely ever used it in CR and QOS...

    It most certainly did not. TND had perfect use of the Bond theme. It never lost it's impact, That's silly. I care about the theme because it's a James Bond movie. I want theme, not themeless background music.
  • doubleoegodoubleoego #LightWork
    Posts: 11,139
    It's not just the Bond theme being used so explicitly. The SF soundtrack has no real sense of overall identity. Look to CR, look to QoS, both those scores wipe it's behind with the SF soundtrack and I'm sorry Newman getting an Oscar nom means eff all. The Oscars are a joke, flaunting their conspicuous political agendas. If any category deserved an Oscar for all the nominations SF got, it should have been Deakins but he lost out to a film that had no business being in the same category so that says it all.
    Furthermore, nothing is confirmed. We don't know if Newman is coming back but I'll say this, if he can't adhere to the simple requirement of incorporating the title theme as part of his score and make appropriate use of the Bond theme, then he should decline to return; it's as simple as that. These are Bond movies, a distinct sub genre in it's own right.
  • Posts: 4,619
    You can say that the Oscars are a joke but the fact is that the nominees for a Best Original Score Oscar are selected by the Music Branch of the Academy of Motion Picture Arts and Sciences. The Music Branch has 232 members as of know and they are all highly accomplished composers, songwriters and music editors.

    The fact is that these composers, songwriters and music editors thought that the score of Skyfall was one of the five best scores of 2012 and they did not think that any of the scores by David Arnold was good enough for a nomination.
  • Posts: 9,730
    Terrific should we base ALL our decisions on the academy Awards?
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    Risico007 wrote:
    Terrific should we base ALL our decisions on the academy Awards?
    Also considering the fact that nominees who have lost out for years are sometimes given "freebies," instead of it being a fair contest for who truly gave the best performance. Every year it honestly becomes harder for me to tune in to the show. The politics of it all, the flat and cringe-worthy attempts at comedy and all the stupid bull that they make the "famous" actors and actresses spew about other professionals or films in the running that they may not have even seen and don't genuinely mean are just some examples of why the show has suffered. How hard would it be for the presenting actors and actresses to just give an improvised and convincing performance instead of choppily reading off a teleprompter? I mean, they get paid for it for crying out loud!
  • doubleoegodoubleoego #LightWork
    Posts: 11,139
    You can say that the Oscars are a joke but the fact is that the nominees for a Best Original Score Oscar are selected by the Music Branch of the Academy of Motion Picture Arts and Sciences. The Music Branch has 232 members as of know and they are all highly accomplished composers, songwriters and music editors.

    The fact is that these composers, songwriters and music editors thought that the score of Skyfall was one of the five best scores of 2012 and they did not think that any of the scores by David Arnold was good enough for a nomination.

    Yes, the same people that denied John Barry for almost 30 years; very credible.

  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    edited March 2014 Posts: 40,372
    Risico007 wrote:
    Terrific should we base ALL our decisions on the academy Awards?
    Also considering the fact that nominees who have lost out for years are sometimes given "freebies," instead of it being a fair contest for who truly gave the best performance. Every year it honestly becomes harder for me to tune in to the show. The politics of it all, the flat and cringe-worthy attempts at comedy and all the stupid bull that they make the "famous" actors and actresses spew about other professionals or films in the running that they may not have even seen and don't genuinely mean are just some examples of why the show has suffered. How hard would it be for the presenting actors and actresses to just give an improvised and convincing performance instead of choppily reading off a teleprompter? I mean, they get paid for it for crying out loud!

    Paid for what? Celebrities don't get paid to attend the Academy Awards. They may receive pricy gift bags, but they don't receive a check for attending/presenting, just the hosts do.
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    Creasy47 wrote:
    Risico007 wrote:
    Terrific should we base ALL our decisions on the academy Awards?
    Also considering the fact that nominees who have lost out for years are sometimes given "freebies," instead of it being a fair contest for who truly gave the best performance. Every year it honestly becomes harder for me to tune in to the show. The politics of it all, the flat and cringe-worthy attempts at comedy and all the stupid bull that they make the "famous" actors and actresses spew about other professionals or films in the running that they may not have even seen and don't genuinely mean are just some examples of why the show has suffered. How hard would it be for the presenting actors and actresses to just give an improvised and convincing performance instead of choppily reading off a teleprompter? I mean, they get paid for it for crying out loud!

    Paid for what? Celebrities don't get paid to attend the Academy Awards. They may receive pricy gift bags, but they don't receive a check for attending/presenting, just the hosts do.

    I think he means they are paid to 'act', so why the need for badly delivered lines, courtesy of a teleprompter.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,372
    @RC7, ahh, makes sense. I still tune in to the Academy Awards every year, and every year there are always grave disappointments and I realize more and more how it's all based around money. Such a shame, it was always very entertaining when I was younger.

    Apologies for riding slightly off topic there.
  • edited March 2014 Posts: 4,619
    Risico007 wrote:
    Terrific should we base ALL our decisions on the academy Awards?

    No. All I'm saying is that to claim that the Oscars are a joke and they don't mean anything is ridiculous.
    doubleoego wrote:
    Yes, the same people that denied John Barry for almost 30 years; very credible.

    John Barry? Do you mean the 5 time Academy Award winner John Barry?
  • Posts: 2,483
    Murdock wrote:
    Me too. Though I liked about half of Newman's score. There wasn't enough Bond theme! Dammit, It's a James Bond movie USE THE DAMN THEME! I'm sick of this generic Hans Zimmer sound alike crap.

    The Bond theme was used often enough in Skyfall. Seriously, how much more Bond theme do you want? If the composer uses the theme as often as it was used in TND for example then it completely loses it's impact. Why are you so sure Arnold would use the Bond theme more often in Bond 24 anyway? He barely ever used it in CR and QOS...

    I don't care about the Bond theme. All I care about is that the director gets to choose the composer without the producers interfering.

    Yep. Two or three instances per film is totally sufficient.

  • Posts: 2,483
    Murdock wrote:
    The Bond theme was used often enough in Skyfall. Seriously, how much more Bond theme do you want? If the composer uses the theme as often as it was used in TND for example then it completely loses it's impact. Why are you so sure Arnold would use the Bond theme more often in Bond 24 anyway? He barely ever used it in CR and QOS...

    It most certainly did not. TND had perfect use of the Bond theme. It never lost it's impact, That's silly. I care about the theme because it's a James Bond movie. I want theme, not themeless background music.

    TND was probably the worst score ever in a Bond film. I'm not completely down on Arnold, BTW, but why anybody thinks this techno-hackery is a good score is beyond me.

  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,328
    Murdock wrote:
    The Bond theme was used often enough in Skyfall. Seriously, how much more Bond theme do you want? If the composer uses the theme as often as it was used in TND for example then it completely loses it's impact. Why are you so sure Arnold would use the Bond theme more often in Bond 24 anyway? He barely ever used it in CR and QOS...

    It most certainly did not. TND had perfect use of the Bond theme. It never lost it's impact, That's silly. I care about the theme because it's a James Bond movie. I want theme, not themeless background music.

    TND was probably the worst score ever in a Bond film. I'm not completely down on Arnold, BTW, but why anybody thinks this techno-hackery is a good score is beyond me.

    Major disagreement PK! TND's score is very light on the techno. In an interview with Arnold, he broke down how he scored it. PTS to London. (Bond is Back, traditional Bond music. Orchestral typical Bond stuff. Hamburg (Non heavy techno elements.) Then once they get to Saigon to the very end. (Asian instrumentation with heavy orchestra stuff for the climax on the stealth boat.) TND does not have the worst Bond soundtrack! The only time DA went overboard with the techno was in TWINE. If you want bad Bond soundtracks, I suggest you listen to TSWLM's score.
  • Logan's right, we ain't seen nothing yet? Plot holes aplenty, style aplenty, beautiful photography aplenty, DC watchable aplenty, no Bond aplenty though...

    Logan give me a Bond filM, give DC his FRWL he's always wanted and don't give that Notting Hill pseudo action director an excuse to make another SF.

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