Not crazy about Mendes and Logan's return.

BirdlesonBirdleson San Jose, CAModerator
edited January 2016 in Bond 26 & Beyond Posts: 30,499
I'm probably being repetitive with this post, there's a lot on here already, but I don't mean to be. I can't read through all of it. I am not thrilled about Mendes's return. I liked SKYFALL okay (it ranks 11 on my Bond list), but I would have wiped out the entire section in Scotland. All I want to know about Bond's childhood is that he didn't come from wealth and that his parents were killed in a climbing accident. I don't care for the whole Bruce Wayne Bond thing, complete with Wayne Manor, Alfred and a Batcave.
From what I've read we're looking at further building on what was established in SKYFALL. In a positive sense, it could mean that we're going to get a Bond film where all of the pieces are in place, and we can finally get back to some classic adventures. But, I fear that once again EON productions sees success and will mistakenly glut a follow up with all of the wrong aspects of it's predecessor (i.e., THE SPY WHO LOVED ME to MOONRAKER). I fear more origin nonsense and more of Moneypenny in the field and more endless automatic weapons fire. Anyone more optimistic out there?
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Comments

  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 16,258
    Birdleson wrote:
    Anyone more optimistic out there?

    Oh I'd venture to say most of us are, even those like myself that don't hold SK in such high standing.
  • Posts: 12,198
    Their are all manner of opinions on this? Personally I enjoyed SF but I do not need a straight continuation though. I wish to see another cracking instalment involving the return of Quantum, with an entertaining story, drama and action! Just give us some fine actors and actresses to add to the usual line up of talent!
  • edited February 2014 Posts: 11,425
    I also was not a huge fan of SF. However, I appreciated some of what Mendes was trying to do. I remain confident that Mendes and Logan can do something better with Bond 24. I sincerely hope that the worst plotline elements of SF were down to Purvis and Wade and that Logan will be working much harder with Bond 24 to deliver a quality plot.

    The other thing that gives me hope is that I am pretty certain that Mendes, Logan and Craig will absolutely not be interested in making another SF. This is not how Mendes works - he'll be looking to do something very different. I do worry that it'll be another MI6 kitchen sink drama, with the focus on internal domestic issues, but I am still hopeful that the overall direction will be quite different.

    I am also epxecting Logan to construct Bond 24 and 25 so that there are strong links between the two films. Not necessarily sequels, but definitely they will be connected in some way. That doesn't mean they can't 'stand alone', but that some things will carry through.
  • Mendas said he wanted to "build on" Skyfall, so I don't take that to mean that he wants it to be a direct sequel. Skyfall was arguably the best looking Bond film, so i'm excited for Bond 24.
  • WalecsWalecs On Her Majesty's Secret Service
    Posts: 3,157
    The only problem I have with Mendes returing is that Newman will likely do the score.

    Skyfall had a good score, but not a great one.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 19,416
    Walecs wrote:
    Skyfall had a good score, but not a great one.

    Correct, but then the last great score in a Bond film was arguably delivered in '87...



  • MrcogginsMrcoggins Following in the footsteps of Quentin Quigley.
    Posts: 3,138
    DarthDimi wrote:
    Walecs wrote:
    Skyfall had a good score, but not a great one.

    Correct, but then the last great score in a Bond film was arguably delivered in '87...


    Hear hear.

  • QBranchQBranch Always have an escape plan. Mine is watching James Bond films.
    edited February 2014 Posts: 11,259
    I'm pretty excited for Mendes return, not just because he's a superb director, but because we haven't seen consecutive directing since LTK. Therefore, it sure will be interesting to see how B24 contrasts against SF, and how B24 turns out now that Mendes has apparently done what he wants to do with a Bond film (although, maybe he had some leftover ideas that can be used this time around). As for Logan- I can't really comment on the man other than I hope he directs some focus into more plausible plot points, as although instances such as Silva's magical escape wasn't completely obvious to me at first, after repeated viewings it just comes across as lazy writing. Other than that, looking forward to what the team can bring to the table. Roll on 2015!
  • WalecsWalecs On Her Majesty's Secret Service
    Posts: 3,157
    DarthDimi wrote:
    Walecs wrote:
    Skyfall had a good score, but not a great one.

    Correct, but then the last great score in a Bond film was arguably delivered in '87...



    I guess that's subjective, but David Arnold's scores were solid, Newman's score wasn't.
  • doubleoegodoubleoego #LightWork
    edited February 2014 Posts: 11,090
    Agreed @Walecs. Newman had a few interesting tracks but it lacked the overall Bondian razzmatazz and I believe that Arnold with CR had found new inspiration and wholly reignited his dexterity. I think being away for SF and missing out on the series' landmark coupled with Newman's mediocre effort getting an Oscar nom, if Arnold were to return I'm convinced he won't be getting any Oscar noms but he'll give us something truly magnificent as evidenced by his last 2 efforts. That being said, Arnold isn't the only suitable choice out there, I just don't want Newman back.
  • MurdockMurdock Mr. 2000
    Posts: 16,035
    I'd aim for bringing Arnold back or if he isn't available hire Michael Giacchino. His work for The Incredibles is more than enough to convince me he's right for the job.
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded Dancing at midnight under the BeBop Moon
    edited February 2014 Posts: 11,772
    QBranch wrote:
    I'm pretty excited for Mendes return, not just because he's a superb director, but because we haven't seen consecutive directing since LTK. Therefore, it sure will be interesting to see how B24 contrasts against SF, and how B24 turns out now that Mendes has apparently done what he wants to do with a Bond film (although, maybe he had some leftover ideas that can be used this time around). As for Logan- I can't really comment on the man other than I hope he directs some focus into more plausible plot points, as although instances such as Silva's magical escape wasn't completely obvious to me at first, after repeated viewings it just comes across as lazy writing. Other than that, looking forward to what the team can bring to the table. Roll on 2015!

    Well, I am in complete agreement with you on this, @QBranch. Well said. :)
  • SuperheroSithSuperheroSith SE London
    Posts: 578
    DarthDimi wrote:
    Walecs wrote:
    Skyfall had a good score, but not a great one.

    Correct, but then the last great score in a Bond film was arguably delivered in '87...

    To be perfectly honest, I loved David Arnold's scores. I may even take Casino Royale's score over my favourite John Barry score, From Russia With Love.
  • Posts: 1,052
    According to a story on Den of Geek today John Logan will definitley not be working on Bond 24.
  • Samuel001Samuel001 Moderator
    edited February 2014 Posts: 13,289
    Do you mean Roger Deakins @identigraph?
  • According to a story on Den of Geek today John Logan will definitley not be working on Bond 24.

    I just checked out the site and don't see anything about that. I doubt that's true as they are going to start shooting the movie at the end of the year and a script should be well along at this point.
  • SandySandy Somewhere in Europe
    Posts: 4,012
    According to a story on Den of Geek today John Logan will definitley not be working on Bond 24.

    I just checked out the site and don't see anything about that. I doubt that's true as they are going to start shooting the movie at the end of the year and a script should be well along at this point.

    There is a story about Deakins not working on B24 there, so I think @Samuel001 is right.
  • BirdlesonBirdleson San Jose, CAModerator
    Posts: 30,499
    Sandy wrote:
    According to a story on Den of Geek today John Logan will definitley not be working on Bond 24.

    I just checked out the site and don't see anything about that. I doubt that's true as they are going to start shooting the movie at the end of the year and a script should be well along at this point.

    There is a story about Deakins not working on B24 there, so I think @Samuel001 is right.

    That's what I've read, Deakins. I though Logan wrote this script a while back. Or at least an outline.
  • edited February 2014 Posts: 4,622
    Birdleson wrote:
    I'm probably being repetitive with this post, there's a lot on here already, but I don't mean to be. I can't read through all of it. I am not thrilled about Mendes's return. I liked SKYFALL okay (it ranks 11 on my Bond list), but I would have wiped out the entire section in Scotland. All I want to know about Bond's childhood is that he didn't come from wealth and that his parents were killed in a climbing accident. I don't care for the whole Bruce Wayne Bond thing, complete with Wayne Amnor, Alfred and a Batcave.
    From what I've read we're looking at further building on what was established in SKYFALL. In a positive sense, it could mean that we're going to get a Bond film where all of the pieces are in place, and we can finally get back to some classic adventures. But, I fear that once again EON productions sees success and will mistakenly glut a follow up with all of the wrong aspects of it's predecessor (i.e., THE SPY WHO LOVED ME to MOONRAKER). I fear more origin nonsense and more of Moneypenny in the field and more endless automatic weapons fire. Anyone more optimistic out there?

    No, I see no hope for B24. I have no reason to be optimistic. The last two efforts I have found to be very disappointing. I don't like the general faux dramatic tone of these "Bond" films.
    The whole SF backstory was tedious in the extreme. Bond's childhood does not interest in the slightest. It didn't interest Fleming much and certainly not the first 40 years of filmmakers. What does make movie-Bond real interesting, is his doublo-0 agent persona.
    Based on track record I have no reason for optimism.
    That said, I will still make efforts to enjoy B24 for what it is, even if it won't be what I want, ie an old-time stylish unselfconscious exciting Bond adventure, with gun barrel at front.
    Craig and Mendes are obsessed with drama, notably character drama. There is no reason to believe anything will change, until the Craig era is done.
    Leopards, spots. It is what it is.
  • Bradford4Bradford4 Banned
    edited February 2014 Posts: 152
    Amen @Timmer Skyfall is one of the most well made (cinematography, etc) Bond movies in recent memory but also one of the worst-written. It was a completly old, tired, cliche-filled techno thriller plot that would have been interesting back in 1998. Completely throw out the creative side of the team and bring in some young, fresh and hungry talent (I know there are literally hundreds of screenwriters in hollywood who have fresh ideas that would knock our socks off).
  • WalecsWalecs On Her Majesty's Secret Service
    Posts: 3,157
    doubleoego wrote:
    Agreed @Walecs. Newman had a few interesting tracks but it lacked the overall Bondian razzmatazz and I believe that Arnold with CR had found new inspiration and wholly reignited his dexterity. I think being away for SF and missing out on the series' landmark coupled with Newman's mediocre effort getting an Oscar nom, if Arnold were to return I'm convinced he won't be getting any Oscar noms but he'll give us something truly magnificent as evidenced by his last 2 efforts. That being said, Arnold isn't the only suitable choice out there, I just don't want Newman back.

    Yes, I'd like to hear someone else as well, not necessarily Arnold (though he's my top choice for the moment), but definitely not Newman.
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,432
    timmer wrote:
    Craig and Mendes are obsessed with drama, notably character drama.

    Is that a bad thing?
  • BirdlesonBirdleson San Jose, CAModerator
    Posts: 30,499
    It's bad in that everything becomes personal for Bond, and M, and becomes character driven, rather than mission driven. It's like Geoff Johns' Green Lantern run, no crisis arises that the GLs or Guardians themselves did not give rise to.
  • Bradford4 wrote:
    Amen @Timmer Skyfall is one of the most well made (cinematography, etc) Bond movies in recent memory but also one of the worst-written. It was a completly old, tired, cliche-filled techno thriller plot that would have been interesting back in 1998. Completely throw out the creative side of the team and bring in some young, fresh and hungry talent (I know there are literally hundreds of screenwriters in hollywood who have fresh ideas that would knock our socks off).

    Skyfall would not have been "filled with cliches" in 1998 but it was in 2012?

    I also have to disagree with those that didn't like the third-act that takes place in Scotland. Bond's background was never really explored before and it was an interesting place to take the series. Craig's Bond is also now a lot more fleshed-out because his roots were explored. Plus, those quite, sparse scenes in Scotland with Bond's abandoned, haunted Skyfall manor was really captivating and cool, IMHO.
  • Samuel001Samuel001 Moderator
    edited February 2014 Posts: 13,289
    RC7 wrote:
    timmer wrote:
    Craig and Mendes are obsessed with drama, notably character drama.

    Is that a bad thing?

    Today, no drama would have a sector of the fans up in arms over the film being nothing more than a paint-by-numbers box ticker and demanding more. You can not win.
  • BirdlesonBirdleson San Jose, CAModerator
    Posts: 30,499
    I disagree. BondCcave, BondManor, Alfred proxy and "when he came out he was no longer a boy". Too much trying to hang onto Nolan's/Batman's coattails. And it's not conjecture, Mendes has cited the Nolan Batman films as a big influence. I have always loved the sparse and simple info that Fleming gave us on Bond's background. He did not come from privilege.
  • Samuel001 wrote:
    RC7 wrote:
    timmer wrote:
    Craig and Mendes are obsessed with drama, notably character drama.

    Is that a bad thing?

    Today, no drama would have a sector of the fans up in arms over the film being nothing more than a paint-by-numbers box ticker and demanding more. You can not win.

    Nope.

    No matter what the film looks like some people will always find something to complain about. Not that there isn't room for criticism.

  • BirdlesonBirdleson San Jose, CAModerator
    Posts: 30,499
    Samuel001 wrote:
    RC7 wrote:
    timmer wrote:
    Craig and Mendes are obsessed with drama, notably character drama.

    Is that a bad thing?

    Today, no drama would have a sector of the fans up in arms over the film being nothing more than a paint-by-numbers box ticker and demanding more. You can not win.

    The answer isn't "no drama" (and I disagree that today's audiences are more discriminating, I feel that the opposite is true). It's where the drama is focused.
  • Posts: 1,052
    Samuel001 wrote:
    Do you mean Roger Deakins @identigraph?

    Apologies for the confusion, meant Deakins, damn work getting in the way, making me type the wrong thing!
  • SandySandy Somewhere in Europe
    Posts: 4,012
    Samuel001 wrote:
    Do you mean Roger Deakins @identigraph?

    Apologies for the confusion, meant Deakins, damn work getting in the way, making me type the wrong thing!

    No worries @identigraph, I know how you feel.
    Samuel001 wrote:
    RC7 wrote:
    timmer wrote:
    Craig and Mendes are obsessed with drama, notably character drama.

    Is that a bad thing?

    Today, no drama would have a sector of the fans up in arms over the film being nothing more than a paint-by-numbers box ticker and demanding more. You can not win.

    Nope.

    No matter what the film looks like some people will always find something to complain about. Not that there isn't room for criticism.

    Exactly, no matter what there will always be people complaining because people are drawn to Bond films for a variety of reasons. I personally couldn't be any happier about the Craig tenure and I'm very excited about the return of Mendes and Logan. But then again, it's got to do with how I like my Bond ;)
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