A question to those who care not for Brosnan's Bond

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  • Dragonpol wrote:
    I'm eagerly awaiting the next actor's casting, the ensuing backlash against Craig, and the emergence of a multitude heretofore silent individuals who never liked Casino Royale and Skyfall and Craig in the first place.

    I'm confident as well that the regard for GoldenEye (and Brosnan as a whole) will increase once more, although presumably not to the heights that it reached during Brosnan's era. I image that Casino Royale and Skyfall especially will have a similar arc to GoldenEye in terms of fan reaction.

    Well said, sire. My thoughts exactly. Brosnan was a very popular Bond at the time. Many Bond fans seem to have forgotten this fact with the advent of the Bond films. These things seem to go round in cycles.

    It's interesting to see the evaluations and re-evaluations of the different Bonds through lens of history. I'm young and new at the Bond thing, so correct me if I have anything wrong.

    It seems that Connery was beloved at the time and never got his backlash because he's Sean Connery and the films were the innovators of the series & genre and the biggest thing in movies at the time. The closest thing there is currently to a backlash is that Goldfinger has been getting shafted in favor of From Russia With Love and even Thunderball in Craig's era.

    Lazenby never had a chance, and On Her Majesty's Secret Service was left to languish at the bottom of Bond listings until very recently. Lazenby was a punchline and shorthand for "unsuccessful successor". Recently, On Her Majesty's Secret Service has been rightly roundly recognized as a classic, and even Lazenby's performance is being reevaluated, probably because Craig has a similar human touch.

    Moore got his backlash while he was Bond, as there was no backlash for Connery, and there was no initial positive reception for Lazenby. This was only exacerbated by Never Say Never Again. By Brosnan's era, he was seen as one of the two archetypes for Bond, and in Craig's era he's been able to settle into his place as the lighthearted one who went on a bit too long.

    Dalton was initially received somewhat positively, but when Licence to Kill's relative failure was compounded by legal issues (with which I am not familiar, somebody please explain this to me), he was viewed as having almost killed the series. Since Craig's take on the character is similarly dark, he is seen as ahead of his time.

    Brosnan was introduced to be the between the two archetypes, Connery and Moore, and provide financial stability and rebirth to a series that had just escaped a brush with death. He was very popular and was hailed as the 2nd best Bond. Then Die Another Day and Daniel Craig happened. Now that Craig is Bond, the backlash is in full swing, and the criticisms range from the sensible to the frankly absurd (like saying he was a worse actor than Lazenby. I mean, come on. Have you watched their movies? Have you seen Lazenby try act cool, smooth, or generally Bondian? Sorry. Rant over)

    Craig is currently Bond and most everyone loves him. Two of his films are in the "instant classic" sphere, one is in the awful-average sphere. He has two more films left to cement/tarnish his legacy.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,687
    Just finished watching Goldeneye, and while I loved it, as always, I have to say that it kind of paled after Dalton's two a bit. I still like TND better.
    Bottom line here is that Brosnan was GREAT, not as great as Dalton, and IMO Craig is close, being almost as true to the character as Dalton, yet not as cool or fun to watch as Brosnan. Although Connery rocked in DN through YOLT...

    Final thought: Dalton is King, Broz, Connery & Craig are Princes, and Moore & Lazenby are Princes-in-waiting. :))
  • Posts: 5,634
    With regard to the title, it's not about 'not caring'. I care about any actor that has the great honor of playing James Bond, regardless of how good or bad a job they make of it. Brosnan was, and is, a well recognized and established actor of caliber, but I just never really took to him as Bond. Just didn't have the feel of Bond, as License to Kill doesn't have the feel of a real Bond movie. I don't hate Brosnan as Bond, I don't hate any Bond actor, there's no real distaste, just at times, you watch the Irishman in the part, and you think to yourself "Shouldn't you be somewhere else and not portraying this iconic figure"

    Brosnan enthusiasts won't be pleased to hear it, but can never really change that thinking

  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,687
    "Shouldn't you be somewhere else and not portraying this iconic figure"
    I could apply that to any actor that is not Connery or Dalton....
    :-?
  • Posts: 820
    Well one who doesn't care of Brosnans Bond. You can't bring him back to role like was Sean Connery. Casting him in Casino Royale will never look good that why I hate Quentin Tornio & his movies. I was glad Timothy Dalton got in 1986. So his Bond films are crap. I prefer Daniel Craig to him. So I can say Brosnan Bond is over for good.
  • Posts: 5,634
    @Chrisisall No only Brosnan really applies. All hair and grins and ill advised humor. Moore at least every now and again, took it seriously amid the laughs and even Lazenby did a fine job of it. Craig, has hitherto done a tremendous job of things, with sometimes criminal material to work with, as we say again, can't get close to Tim Dalton or Sean just yet. Maybe his time will come one day, but that's going off course a little as this thread is about the one Bond in Pierce Brosnan, and one last time, just didn't really take off for me. He's a great actor for sure - but unfortunately it didn't quite work out as 007
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,687
    Craig, has hitherto done a tremendous job of things, with sometimes criminal material to work with, as we say again, can't get close to Tim Dalton or Sean just yet.
    No one will IMO. But both Broz & Craig have been excellent.
  • pachazopachazo Make Your Choice
    Posts: 7,314
    Agent7F wrote:
    Casting him in Casino Royale will never look good that why I hate Quentin Tornio & his movies.

    You hate Tarantino's movies because of a possible casting decision that never happened? Wow, tough crowd.
  • Posts: 5,634
    He's probably never seen Pulp Fiction or Jackie Brown then. Missing out there..
  • Posts: 135
    I love every James Bond equally, but always I find myself in Brosnan. The man. The legend. He is almost like my grandfather- perchance my uncle. I could almost classify him as something of a father, but all things being equal, I will just say this: he is I; I am him. Any and all other Bonds need not apply, despite applying to their respecting films. Therefore, each Bond is applicable in his or her own films.
  • BigGayIslandBigGayIsland Banned
    edited August 2013 Posts: 56
    YEAH I got a question for people who don't like Brosnan WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOU?? :))
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 23,447
    YEAH I got a question for people who don't like Brosnan WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOU?? :))

    Right back at you, @BigGayIsland. If this is the best you can produce, maybe you need to learn some discussion skills. But then your username is enough to indicate that your only intention is to provoke.

  • MrcogginsMrcoggins Following in the footsteps of Quentin Quigley.
    Posts: 3,144
    DarthDimi wrote:
    YEAH I got a question for people who don't like Brosnan WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOU?? :))

    Right back at you, @BigGayIsland. If this is the best you can produce, maybe you need to learn some discussion skills. But then your username is enough to indicate that your only intention is to provoke.
    Perhaps it's time for a spring clean !
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    edited August 2013 Posts: 17,727
    With regard to the title, it's not about 'not caring'. I care about any actor that has the great honor of playing James Bond, regardless of how good or bad a job they make of it. Brosnan was, and is, a well recognized and established actor of caliber, but I just never really took to him as Bond. Just didn't have the feel of Bond, as License to Kill doesn't have the feel of a real Bond movie. I don't hate Brosnan as Bond, I don't hate any Bond actor, there's no real distaste, just at times, you watch the Irishman in the part, and you think to yourself "Shouldn't you be somewhere else and not portraying this iconic figure"

    Brosnan enthusiasts won't be pleased to hear it, but can never really change that thinking

    "Oh, right I get you now, it's because he's Irish is it?"
    Taken from a Northern Ireland sketch show and spouted by a little male character dressed as a leprechaun (though of course he said "...because I'm Irish..."), but very true, as all good comedy ultimately is in the end.

    In all seriousness, I do think Pierce Brosnan WAS James Bond - the man was born to play the part, for sure. At times, he was a little strangely off as an actor (he was otherwise great) I did feel - especially in some of his confrontational scenes with Elektra King, though I rate TWINE very highly as a Bond film and general precursor to what they did in CR. There, I said it and will defend it to my last man.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,687
    Dragonpol wrote:
    There, I said it and will defend it to my last man.
    I got your back here, Dave!
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    edited August 2013 Posts: 17,727
    chrisisall wrote:
    Dragonpol wrote:
    There, I said it and will defend it to my last man.
    I got your back here, Dave!

    Good to know. Thanks, Chris!
  • Posts: 14,798
    Dragonpol wrote:
    With regard to the title, it's not about 'not caring'. I care about any actor that has the great honor of playing James Bond, regardless of how good or bad a job they make of it. Brosnan was, and is, a well recognized and established actor of caliber, but I just never really took to him as Bond. Just didn't have the feel of Bond, as License to Kill doesn't have the feel of a real Bond movie. I don't hate Brosnan as Bond, I don't hate any Bond actor, there's no real distaste, just at times, you watch the Irishman in the part, and you think to yourself "Shouldn't you be somewhere else and not portraying this iconic figure"

    Brosnan enthusiasts won't be pleased to hear it, but can never really change that thinking

    "Oh, right I get you now, it's because he's Irish is it?"
    Taken from a Northern Ireland sketch show and spouted by a little male character dressed as a leprechaun (though of course he said "...because I'm Irish..."), but very true, as all good comedy ultimately is in the end.

    In all seriousness, I do think Pierce Brosnan WAS James Bond - the man was born to play the part, for sure. At times, he was a little strangely off as an actor (he was otherwise great) I did feel - especially in some of his confrontational scenes with Elektra King, though I rate TWINE very highly as a Bond film and general precursor to what they did in CR. There, I said it and will defend it to my last man.

    Funny, I too consider TWINE a precursor of CR, however flawed it was. It was like the series was at a cross road, being utterly undecided where to go, and then took the wrong route with DAD.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,687
    Ludovico wrote:
    It was like the series was at a cross road, being utterly undecided where to go, and then took the wrong route with DAD.
    It was...
    Time... for... a station break.
    b-(
  • doubleoegodoubleoego #LightWork
    Posts: 11,139
    Brosnan could have been better and he's not as good as Connery or Craig imo BUT part of Brosnan's appeal as Bond was that, he was mostly fun to watch and brought a cool and exciting dynamic to the character that I feel the Craig era can benefit more from. I don't want to watch Bond films where 007 feels largely burdened by his job; it should be a labour of love and that's part of the fantasy that is integral in making the character and movies exciting.
  • Posts: 6,396
    You're only as good as the scripts that are written for you and on that basis I think Brosnan did considerably well. I would say though that whilst GE remains my favourite of the four films, it is by far his weakest performance. He played it far too safe in my eyes and didn't take any risks in giving us an edgier performance. Something he would do to greater effect later on in TWINE.

    Unfortunately he was badly let down by the writers when it came to DAD. I suspect he originally read the first few pages of the script he must have been cock-a-hoop at the notion of Bond being captured and tortured for fourteen months, only to turn the next page to find the writers had bottled it entirely and had settled on a by-the-numbers Bond bonanza with zero character arc and formulaic plotting.

    I expect he's looked at DC with great envy given the scripts he's had to work with so far.
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    edited August 2013 Posts: 17,727
    You're only as good as the scripts that are written for you and on that basis I think Brosnan did considerably well. I would say though that whilst GE remains my favourite of the four films, it is by far his weakest performance. He played it far too safe in my eyes and didn't take any risks in giving us an edgier performance. Something he would do to greater effect later on in TWINE.

    Unfortunately he was badly let down by the writers when it came to DAD. I suspect he originally read the first few pages of the script he must have been cock-a-hoop at the notion of Bond being captured and tortured for fourteen months, only to turn the next page to find the writers had bottled it entirely and had settled on a by-the-numbers Bond bonanza with zero character arc and formulaic plotting.

    I expect he's looked at DC with great envy given the scripts he's had to work with so far.

    Agreed on this, too, especially on the DAD cop-out. Now, that was criminal! I think that there is much expedient Brosnan-bashing and sheer revisionism that does not accurately tally with the facts by the bigger of the Craig nuts. I suppose something similar happened to Tim Dalton once Brosnan became Bond, but I for one can't remember it. Don't get me wrong, I think Craig is great too, but does this greatness have to be at the expense of another actor in the role, namely Pierce Brosnan? I think not, but others have their views as I know from a tour of all the main Bond forums, and I must say I find it all a little bit showy and bandwagon clambering in intent and style.

    I have always meant to write a lengthy defence of Pierce Brosnan and in so doing tell the story of his loss of the role in 2004-2005 and I may indeed do that yet.
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    Posts: 17,727
    Ludovico wrote:
    Dragonpol wrote:
    With regard to the title, it's not about 'not caring'. I care about any actor that has the great honor of playing James Bond, regardless of how good or bad a job they make of it. Brosnan was, and is, a well recognized and established actor of caliber, but I just never really took to him as Bond. Just didn't have the feel of Bond, as License to Kill doesn't have the feel of a real Bond movie. I don't hate Brosnan as Bond, I don't hate any Bond actor, there's no real distaste, just at times, you watch the Irishman in the part, and you think to yourself "Shouldn't you be somewhere else and not portraying this iconic figure"

    Brosnan enthusiasts won't be pleased to hear it, but can never really change that thinking

    "Oh, right I get you now, it's because he's Irish is it?"
    Taken from a Northern Ireland sketch show and spouted by a little male character dressed as a leprechaun (though of course he said "...because I'm Irish..."), but very true, as all good comedy ultimately is in the end.

    In all seriousness, I do think Pierce Brosnan WAS James Bond - the man was born to play the part, for sure. At times, he was a little strangely off as an actor (he was otherwise great) I did feel - especially in some of his confrontational scenes with Elektra King, though I rate TWINE very highly as a Bond film and general precursor to what they did in CR. There, I said it and will defend it to my last man.

    Funny, I too consider TWINE a precursor of CR, however flawed it was. It was like the series was at a cross road, being utterly undecided where to go, and then took the wrong route with DAD.

    I thank you for your agreement and support. I think it is an outstanding film, possibly even Brosnan's best but it gets little love on Bond forums for some reason. There is definitely a "connect" with CR there, but just whisper it for the minute while I hold off the wolves.
  • edited August 2013 Posts: 3,494
    Am I one of those wolves per chance?

    Sorry fellas, but I can't agree with TWINE (a bottom fiver for me) and would like to hear what the connect is with CR past another round of corpse kissing. And please don't try to convince me that the ham fisted melodrama that was Bond's romance with Elektra even began to approach what we saw in CR. I honestly laughed so hard yesterday that my gut still hurts.

    TWINE I will always remember for the beautiful Sophie (her in that red casino dress is the stuff of erotic dreams for men of all ages), the return of Robbie Coltrane as Zukovsky, and sadly the last film for the beloved Desmond Llewellyn as Q. Good PTS that got the movie off to a great start. That's about all that stood out as above average. I thought Pierce reached his pinnacle in TND and from there it was all mostly forgettable until CR for me became easily the best film released since the Dalton era.
  • Posts: 135
    Ludovico wrote:
    Dragonpol wrote:
    With regard to the title, it's not about 'not caring'. I care about any actor that has the great honor of playing James Bond, regardless of how good or bad a job they make of it. Brosnan was, and is, a well recognized and established actor of caliber, but I just never really took to him as Bond. Just didn't have the feel of Bond, as License to Kill doesn't have the feel of a real Bond movie. I don't hate Brosnan as Bond, I don't hate any Bond actor, there's no real distaste, just at times, you watch the Irishman in the part, and you think to yourself "Shouldn't you be somewhere else and not portraying this iconic figure"

    Brosnan enthusiasts won't be pleased to hear it, but can never really change that thinking

    "Oh, right I get you now, it's because he's Irish is it?"
    Taken from a Northern Ireland sketch show and spouted by a little male character dressed as a leprechaun (though of course he said "...because I'm Irish..."), but very true, as all good comedy ultimately is in the end.

    In all seriousness, I do think Pierce Brosnan WAS James Bond - the man was born to play the part, for sure. At times, he was a little strangely off as an actor (he was otherwise great) I did feel - especially in some of his confrontational scenes with Elektra King, though I rate TWINE very highly as a Bond film and general precursor to what they did in CR. There, I said it and will defend it to my last man.

    Funny, I too consider TWINE a precursor of CR, however flawed it was. It was like the series was at a cross road, being utterly undecided where to go, and then took the wrong route with DAD.
    TWINE was released to general cinemas in 1999; CR in 2005. As you state the influence is obvious. In my esteemed opinion, the only method for improving upon TWINE would have been the insertion of Daniel Craig within the film's protagonist's role: yes, as Mr. Bond himself.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 23,447
    @SirHenryLeeChaChing, I'm with you concerning TWINE. It may be my least favourite of the Bonds, perhaps second to AVTAK. Yes, even DAD works better IMO. At least DAD seems to realise how big a joke it is. It doesn't apply layers of overcomplicated drama to conceal that fact. TWINE, for me, peaks during the PTS and shifts to a problematic play after that. First it builds mystery surrounding that cheque Elektra dropped off at Valentin's, then we find out... it's the submarine driving nephew of Valentin's who needed a payment in this terribly convoluted fashion. I suppose we should be happy that Dominic Greene didn't turn out to be Camille's cousin once-removed or that Bond is actually Fields' uncle. There's also the nonsensical concept of the magic bullet, one so dumb it makes the Warren Report blush. And whatever goes on during the climax aboard the sub, heck even the novelist, Raymond Benson, couldn't figure out the mechanics behind that switchboard. The script never allowed him to build any tension in the novelization. Instead, he goes on describing all sorts of gizmos that seem to somehow allow Bond to somehow defeat Renard... sort of... somehow... I guess. But then I'm a little rusty on my nuclear submarine mechanics.

    Did I mention "He knew exactly where to huuuuuurt me" and similar lines so terribly delivered? Oh, I'm not referring to the infamous Brosnan pain faces; they truly are the least of my concerns. I'm instead referring to things like "Tanner!". He makes such an angry face, it feels like he got a test back with an F written on it. The other fellas could play angry with ease. And even Brosnan managed... in other films. TWINE didn't exactly bring out the best in Brosnan I reckon. It's got a messy script and it failed to elicit great performances from its actors.
  • Posts: 6,396
    @DarthDimi I don't believe for one moment that DAD is played for laughs, which is just a really scary thought that it is taking itself that seriously. I'm not a great lover of TWINE either and it has many flaws, most of which you have mentioned but I'll add to that the really dull and insipid set pieces - the ski chase, the underground facility, the caviar factory, which features a special effect so hideously bad (when the second helicopter is destroyed), and the climax aboard the submarine. It's such a common thing to say, but it does look like so much of the budget was blown on the chase along the Thames that there was very little money or creativity for the other action sequences.

    In terms of PB's acting, I'm not adverse to it here but he is considerably better in The Thomas Crown Affair, released in the same year as TWINE. Apart from the one scene when he and Rene Russo are in the back of a limousine and he puts on this very odd laugh.

    And I've previously made mention of his peculiar accent in DAD "the same person who set me up then has just set me up again. So I'm going after him". It's impossible to know what sort of accent it is.
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    edited August 2013 Posts: 12,459
    My favorite Brosnan film was TND; he had many fine scenes and very well played.
    TWINE is not my favorite. Goldeneye is my second fav of Brosnan's. He came into his own with TND and really was a great Bond in that one.

    Americanisms or scripts ... these things get in the way, sure. But Brosnan didn't let me down as Bond, not at all. I still to this day enjoy his Bond, very much so.

    And yes, The Thomas Crown Affair was superb! I love that movie.

    His accent, what accent, what way of speaking - never stood out to me as a negative or something that took away from the lines. I am always surprised how many people pick up on those things.

    Anyway, that's my contribution today stating that again I have no qualms about Pierce Brosnan as Bond and I enjoyed his Bond very much. TWINE, after the splendid PTS, unwound not in a good way for me. And DAD was a dud, although I enjoy the first half much better than the second and I think Brosnan was fine in all of it. I sincerely wish (as I think he surely must, too) that he had gone out on a fifth film that was of high quality, not the doom of DAD.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    edited August 2013 Posts: 17,687
    DarthDimi wrote:
    @SirHenryLeeChaChing, I'm with you concerning TWINE. It may be my least favourite of the Bonds, perhaps second to AVTAK. Yes, even DAD works better IMO.
    There are times when I avoid TWINE, and other times when I really like it. TWINE is *just like* SF in that it is thinks it's way more important & better written than it is, and also on a purely dramatic level, when it works, it works well IMO.
    My favorite Brosnan film was TND; he had many fine scenes and very well played.
    He came into his own with TND and really was a great Bond in that one.
    Agreed totally.
  • I'm going to watch Pierce long with Salma Hayek tonight (love that woman) in 2004's "After The Sunset" where they star as 2 retired jewel thieves.

    TCA is one of Brosnan's best roles, I only wish he'd played Bond more like Thomas Crown.

  • Posts: 6,396
    I'm going to watch Pierce long with Salma Hayek tonight (love that woman) in 2004's "After The Sunset" where they star as 2 retired jewel thieves.

    TCA is one of Brosnan's best roles, I only wish he'd played Bond more like Thomas Crown.

    Ironically he won the EMPIRE Best Actor award for TWINE when really he should have won for Thomas Crown.
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