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Who had more pull in the franchise: Cubby or Saltzman?

Aziz_FekkeshAziz_Fekkesh Royale-les-Eaux
edited December 2012 in Bond Movies Posts: 403
Obviously Cubby was in charge of the series after Saltzman left in '74, but I've oftern heard remarks that the latter had better ideas and that he had more influence over the style of the early films. Not really sure where I stand on this, but they were definately a force to be reckoned with combined.

Comments

  • Agent007391Agent007391 Up, Up, Down, Down, Left, Right, Left, Right, B, A, Start
    Posts: 7,854
    It's always seemed to me as though Cubby was pretty much the brains of the operation, and that a lot of times, Harry Saltzman would just go on spending money the pair didn't have.
  • Goldeneye95Goldeneye95
    edited December 2012 Posts: 546
    Obviously Cubby. He knew what us James Bond fans wanted.
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    Posts: 5,979
    Not sure, although at some point they creatively parted ways. Cubby was responsible for LALD and Saltzman for TMWTGG.
  • RogueAgentRogueAgent
    Posts: 12,506
    I think it has to be Cubby! From what i know which is not alot! Harry was a hot headed kid of guy, where as Cubby could see the bigger picture if you will excuse the pun. ;))
  • myworldisenoughmyworldisenough
    Posts: 1,143
    Cubby is the second most important factor in the history of Bond after Fleming. Saltzman was influential in the early years but became a liability. Thankfully Cubby bought him out and reenergised the film series after the lacklustre TMWTGG.
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    To be fair Harry did come up with a lot of good ideas in the early days. I'm not sure he gets the credit he deserves though when compared with Cubbys efforts.
  • thelivingroyalethelivingroyale
    Posts: 12,837
    I read that OHMSS basically Saltzmans film. Not sure how accurate that is but if it was I think he deserves lots of credit.
  • MrBondMrBond Station S
    Posts: 2,044
    An old saying says that " the winner writes the history ". We do always hear from Babs and Michael what Cubby did. But we do not hear so often what Harry did. He is the lost producer in a way.
  • St_GeorgeSt_George Shuttling Drax's lovelies to the space doughnut - happy 40th, MR!
    edited December 2012 Posts: 1,699
    I believe from OHMSS onwards the pair took 'lead on-set producer' reins on an individual, every-other-film basis (so Harry was front and centre on OHMSS, Cubby on DAF, Harry on LALD and Cubby on TMWTGG). I read somewhere that was as much down to the slow disintegration of their working relationship as much as anything else, but how true that is, well, is anyone's guess.

    I've also read that Harry, coming as he did from a theatre impresario background, was a great ideas man - as Wizard points out, this was crucial early on - but on the later films he a good number of his ideas weren't so inspired. Who knows? Methinks it's fair to say, though, that behind-the-scenes (certainly in terms of the movie business muscle) they were both pivotal and critical forces behind Bond - and it would be difficult and maybe unfair to measure which of them 'more important' in this regard - until the relationship finally hit the buffers for the reasons we all know following Golden Gun...
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    St_George wrote:
    I believe from OHMSS onwards the pair took 'lead on-set producer' reins on an individual, every-other-film basis (so Harry was front and centre on OHMSS, Cubby on DAF, Harry on LALD and Cubby on TMWTGG). I read somewhere that was as much down to the slow disintegration of their working relationship as much as anything else, but how true that is, well, is anyone's guess.

    I've also come across this from numerous sources. There is certainly a big difference in quality if you look at these two pairs of films. How indicative it is of Harry's contribution it's difficult to say but I would say that in the mid sixties he also delivered the 3 Harry Palmer films (which vary in quality but Ipcress is a very solid film) and Battle of Britain which whilst not great has some astonishing aerial footage. He proved himself both with Bond and elsewhere that he was a man who had great ability and as pointed out above history is written by the Broccolis.

    There again he did say GF was an awful song and the only reason he didn't axe it was because there was no time so his judgement could be suspect as borne out by his later financial dealings.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 23,551
    This isn't news.

    and...

    There's a thread for questions: http://www.mi6community.com/index.php?p=/discussion/2843/the-james-bond-questions-thread/p13
  • oorogersoorogers
    Posts: 122
    Harry Saltsman at the start was the drive to bring Bond to screen but cubby had more commitment to the films as time went on and got family involved the films became more his as time went on. But Harry did have good ideas in the early years but he was more of a business man then having passion for film making and it was only creative differences that drove them apart. But it as turned out for the best because its cubbys family have continued where cubby left off with the same drive and passion that the series had at the start and its cubby and his family that we can thank for what we got today. But we got to thank both cubby and harry for having the balls to take on a film unlike anything before they took a massive risk doing something unlike any thing around at the time and it was the sixties people was not as open to change like we are to day. And doing what they did took guts and we all glad they did.
  • bondsumbondsum
    edited December 2012 Posts: 3,333
    echo wrote:
    Not sure, although at some point they creatively parted ways. Cubby was responsible for LALD and Saltzman for TMWTGG.
    Other way round, LALD was Saltzman's baby and TMWTGG was Cubby's. I was sad to see Saltzman go as most of the good ideas went with him. Let's not forget that Saltzman also produced the grounded Ipcress File without Cubby.
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