When not reading Fleming - I would recommend ?

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  • Bentley wrote:
    Dear Emilbertillo,
    Your choice of Desmond Cory's "Johnny Fedora" intrigues me.
    I've never read any of Cory's books but there are numerous comparisons made with Bond.
    Given that the first was published in 1951 the accusation that Fleming was more than inspired by Cory is constantly made.
    Are there any parallels and are the Fedora books worth reading today?
    I'd love you to elaborate.
    Regards,
    Bentley

    I find it amusing that people compare Johnny Fedora to James Bond, really. Let's see: they're both orphans, they came from wealthy families, they both worked for the Crown even though they're not really British (Johnny Fedora's actually Spanish-Irish), though Johnny worked freelance... but that's where the similarities end as far as I can see. Whereas James Bond was ahead of his time, and as a lamentation to the declining power of the British Empire after WWII, Johnny doesn't want to move on from WWII. In the first novel "Secret Ministry", Nazis smuggled drugs to Britain to destabilize the nation. The Nazis continue to become the antagonists until "Undertow" (the first of five novels pitting him against his archenemy, Feramontov) came in. If there ever is a thinking man's James Bond, it has to be one of the other spies Michael Caine portrayed in film: Len Deighton's Unnamed Spy, or Harry Palmer in the films. As for Johnny Fedora's availability, I'm afraid that he's rarely published anymore, though I read somewhere that they were available for download as e-books.
    Speaking of Len Deighton, I am now re-reading his excellent Game, Set, Match Trilogy featuring Bernard Samson. I just finished "Berlin Game" and is currently halfway through "Mexico Set". Bernard Samson trumped Napoleon Solo as my fourth favorite fictional spy.

  • Posts: 267
    Bentley wrote:
    Dear Emilbertillo,
    Your choice of Desmond Cory's "Johnny Fedora" intrigues me.


    I find it amusing that people compare Johnny Fedora to James Bond, really. Let's see: they're both orphans, they came from wealthy families, they both worked for the Crown even though they're not really British (Johnny Fedora's actually Spanish-Irish), though Johnny worked freelance... but that's where the similarities end as far as I can see. Whereas James Bond was ahead of his time, and as a lamentation to the declining power of the British Empire after WWII, Johnny doesn't want to move on from WWII. In the first novel "Secret Ministry", Nazis smuggled drugs to Britain to destabilize the nation. The Nazis continue to become the antagonists until "Undertow" (the first of five novels pitting him against his archenemy, Feramontov) came in. If there ever is a thinking man's James Bond, it has to be one of the other spies Michael Caine portrayed in film: Len Deighton's Unnamed Spy, or Harry Palmer in the films. As for Johnny Fedora's availability, I'm afraid that he's rarely published anymore, though I read somewhere that they were available for download as e-books.
    Speaking of Len Deighton, I am now re-reading his excellent Game, Set, Match Trilogy featuring Bernard Samson. I just finished "Berlin Game" and is currently halfway through "Mexico Set". Bernard Samson trumped Napoleon Solo as my fourth favorite fictional spy.

    Dear Ermibertillo,
    Interesting points about Fedora albeit Moonraker's Hugo Drax was a Nazi! That said, I take your point and as there is a good selection of Fedora books available on Kindle so I think I'll give him a go.
    With regard to Deighton, I couldn't agree with you more about Bernard Sampson, those three trilogies and "Winter" are fantastic and rank as all time classics. In fact, in 2009 The UK's Guardian paper reported that Quentin Tarantino was interested to develop "Samson" as a rival film franchise to "Bond". Personally I see them as two quite different animals and if Quentin is serious about taking on Bond, after eon declined his "Casino Royale" plan, he'd be much better advised to do it with the "Blaise" series. In my opinion, Deighton is closer to Le Carre than Fleming and merits a very different film treatment.
    As fare as "The Unnamed Spy/Palmer" series, I loved "The Ipcress File" and "Horse Under Water" but found the rest of the series very uneven.
    Regards,
    Bentley.
  • Posts: 1,817
    0013 wrote:
    By the way, what other authors do you like?

    Spy fiction wise, or just in general?

    In general.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    0013 wrote:
    0013 wrote:
    By the way, what other authors do you like?

    Spy fiction wise, or just in general?

    In general.

    Arthur Conan Doyle detective-smiley-emoticon.gif
    Alexandre Dumas
    Roald Dahl (childhood nostalgia)
    Ian Fleming
    Vince Flynn
    Stieg Larsson
    Robert Louis Stevenson
    Ray Bradbury
    Kenneth Grahame
    Richard Castle ;)

    Writers I want to get into:
    Victor Hugo
    Dashiell Hammett
    Raymond Chandler
    Jules Verne

  • Posts: 1,817
    0013 wrote:
    0013 wrote:
    By the way, what other authors do you like?

    Spy fiction wise, or just in general?

    In general.

    Arthur Conan Doyle detective-smiley-emoticon.gif
    Alexandre Dumas
    Roald Dahl (childhood nostalgia)
    Ian Fleming
    Vince Flynn
    Stieg Larsson
    Robert Louis Stevenson
    Ray Bradbury
    Kenneth Grahame
    Richard Castle ;)

    Writers I want to get into:
    Victor Hugo
    Dashiell Hammett
    Raymond Chandler
    Jules Verne

    I recommend you to add some Italian and Latin American authors into your wish list (they are my favorites).
  • Posts: 267
    Fellow Agents,
    Given the late, great John Gardner's association with Bond, I was wondering how many of you aficionados have read his terrific Boise Oakes novels?
    In 1966 I was seduced by the first in the series, "The Liquidator", when it was published by Corgi with great cover art featuring a particularly phallic bullet tied in red ribbon. This, together with the jacket blurb soon had me reaching for my hard earned 2/6.
    At that time, the market was awash with new spy heroes but Gardner's Oakes books were different. Not only did they thrill, they were laugh out loud funny!
    The novels featured a rich cast of characters but at the centre of the action was one Brian Ian Oakes (aka Boise) , a coward, a wimp, a would be cad who has been mistakenly recruited from civi street to be MI6's new top assassin. Boise looked the part, the women love and he quickly finds himself completely intoxicated with the high life and desperate to hang on to the perks but can't face the work. The solution is simple — he subcontracts his hits to an undertaker called Griffin!
    Fabulous stuff, you will be sweating and laughing in equal measure. I'm pleased to say they are hugely politically incorrect and amongst other things involve a character called Mostyn, the greasiest deputy head of Mi6 to ever walk the corridors of Whitehall.
    Back in the day, the "Oakes" books sold like hot cakes and were undoubtably the previous work experience that got Gardner the Bond gig.
    In total, between '64 & '75, he published eight Oakes books. The best were the first (The Liquidator), the third (Amber Nine) and the fourth (Madrigal).
    If you haven't read any of them you are in for a treat and I'm delighted to say that "Top Notch Thrillers" have republished "The Liquidator" and it is available from Amazon uk.
    For the rest, doubtless they'll be available in e-book form soon but in the interim, the internet is probably the only way.
    Regards,
    Bentley.
  • oo7oo7
    Posts: 1,068
    Mickey Spillane
  • Posts: 267
    oo7 wrote:
    Mickey Spillane

    Dear 007,
    Why?
    Regards,
    Bentley
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    0013 wrote:
    0013 wrote:
    0013 wrote:
    By the way, what other authors do you like?

    Spy fiction wise, or just in general?

    In general.

    Arthur Conan Doyle detective-smiley-emoticon.gif
    Alexandre Dumas
    Roald Dahl (childhood nostalgia)
    Ian Fleming
    Vince Flynn
    Stieg Larsson
    Robert Louis Stevenson
    Ray Bradbury
    Kenneth Grahame
    Richard Castle ;)

    Writers I want to get into:
    Victor Hugo
    Dashiell Hammett
    Raymond Chandler
    Jules Verne

    I recommend you to add some Italian and Latin American authors into your wish list (they are my favorites).
    Any recommendations?
  • @Bentley Bravo Two Zero is a great book. If you're intrested another SAS soldier turned author Chris Ryan wrote his account of what happened in a different book, The One That Got Away. Ryans book also tells the story of how he escaped on foot after the others were captured, took him 8 days.

    They're turning one of the Stone books into a film too. Jason Statham (who seems like a great choice) is rumoured to be starring in it.
  • St_GeorgeSt_George Shuttling Drax's lovelies to the space doughnut - happy 40th, MR!
    Posts: 1,699
    If you enjoy the playboy adventure of Fleming and don't mind a tongue-in-cheek but historically informed reading, then I'd certainly recommend George MacDonald 'Octopussy' Fraser's Flashman series of novels.

    Be warned, they're far, far from PC; full of (often mock-) racism and sexism, but very funny. His ability to conjure up time and place in the exotic Victorian colonies is second to none too...
  • Posts: 1,817
    0013 wrote:
    0013 wrote:
    0013 wrote:
    By the way, what other authors do you like?

    Spy fiction wise, or just in general?

    In general.

    Arthur Conan Doyle detective-smiley-emoticon.gif
    Alexandre Dumas
    Roald Dahl (childhood nostalgia)
    Ian Fleming
    Vince Flynn
    Stieg Larsson
    Robert Louis Stevenson
    Ray Bradbury
    Kenneth Grahame
    Richard Castle ;)

    Writers I want to get into:
    Victor Hugo
    Dashiell Hammett
    Raymond Chandler
    Jules Verne

    I recommend you to add some Italian and Latin American authors into your wish list (they are my favorites).
    Any recommendations?

    Sure, from Latin America the short stories of Jorge Luis Borges are simply masterpieces of world literature, beautifully written and with limiteless imagination. The novels of Mario Vargas Llosa are also very good too.
    In Italian literature, Umberto Eco is my favorite author of all time and The Name of the Rose and Foucault's Pendulum are most complex and interesting. Italo Calvino is another of my favorites.
    There's also a very good series of a Sicilian detective, by Andrea Camilleri, called Inspector Montalbano. There's also a TV series of the books (more than 20, a good rival for Bond). But the translations in English might lose the rich content of the Sicilian dialect and culture.
  • Posts: 267
    St_George wrote:
    If you enjoy the playboy adventure of Fleming and don't mind a tongue-in-cheek but historically informed reading, then I'd certainly recommend George MacDonald 'Octopussy' Fraser's Flashman series of novels.

    Be warned, they're far, far from PC; full of (often mock-) racism and sexism, but very funny. His ability to conjure up time and place in the exotic Victorian colonies is second to none too...

    Dear St_George,
    You are clearly a man of great taste.
    The "Flashman" novels were terrific. Laugh, you needed oxygen when reading and as you say they are historically very well informed.
    It's interesting that he wrote the "Octopussy" movie because although it's a mocherey of a Bond film, the only saving grace is it's humour and those moments had good old George's fingerprints all over them.
    The other thing that has a George connection of course is that his hero's monicar has been adopted as our current PM's nick name. It brings on images of "Flashman" on a police horse, chasing a flame haired nubile editor through the Chipping Norton country side with his riding crop at the ready!
    Regards,
    Bentley

  • NicNacNicNac Administrator, Moderator
    Posts: 7,567
    I'm a big Flashman fan and am disappointed that GMF didn';t live to fill all the gaps in. I think there are another dozen books that could have happened.
    The American civil war, the Australina gold rush I remember are incidents Flashman was involved in that never got told.

    Maybe his estate will ask someone to carry on the Flashman saga? May prove controverial but who knows.
  • Posts: 267
    Fellow Agents,
    Fresh from my viewing of the fabulous "Skyfall" I can't help but reflect on the importance of a good story.
    No doubt, Sam Mendes is an amazing director that understands completely the formula for a 007 cocktail and he had a good story to work with. Please note I say a good story, not a great story.
    If a fabulous film can come from a good story - what could come from a great story?
    I pose the question because whilst eon struggle for good scripts for a great franchise it is ironic that the great Blaise franchise which has so many ready made great stories remains completely unexploited - hopefully the success of Mendes' Skyfall will persuade Tarantino to exploit his rights - if he still has them?
    I live in hope.
    Regards,
    Bentley
  • Posts: 59
    I know it's probably sacrilege but my fave books are by Robert Ludlum, then the Fleming novels, The Bourne Identity novel is my No1 thriller of all time, read it at school in the early 80's, still read it once a year too. I read the Fleming's at school too, and they come close but no cigar to toppling Ludlum's approach to thriller writing
  • St_GeorgeSt_George Shuttling Drax's lovelies to the space doughnut - happy 40th, MR!
    Posts: 1,699
    Bentley wrote:
    St_George wrote:
    If you enjoy the playboy adventure of Fleming and don't mind a tongue-in-cheek but historically informed reading, then I'd certainly recommend George MacDonald 'Octopussy' Fraser's Flashman series of novels.

    Be warned, they're far, far from PC; full of (often mock-) racism and sexism, but very funny. His ability to conjure up time and place in the exotic Victorian colonies is second to none too...

    Dear St_George,
    You are clearly a man of great taste.
    The "Flashman" novels were terrific. Laugh, you needed oxygen when reading and as you say they are historically very well informed.
    It's interesting that he wrote the "Octopussy" movie because although it's a mocherey of a Bond film, the only saving grace is it's humour and those moments had good old George's fingerprints all over them.
    The other thing that has a George connection of course is that his hero's monicar has been adopted as our current PM's nick name. It brings on images of "Flashman" on a police horse, chasing a flame haired nubile editor through the Chipping Norton country side with his riding crop at the ready!
    Regards,
    Bentley

    Good points all, sir, but personally I wouldn't exactly refer to Rebekah Brooks as 'nubile'... ;)
  • I'm currently reading "Mission To Paris" by Alan Furst and I would thoroughly recommend it.
    The guy (Furst) writes great thrillers set either in or just before WWII. In truth he's probably closer to Eric Ambler or Graham Greene than Fleming but I'm sure that Bond fans will dig him.
    By the way, who's this Rebekah Brooks chic that Bentley mentions?
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    Villiers53 wrote:
    I'm currently reading "Mission To Paris" by Alan Furst and I would thoroughly recommend it.
    The guy (Furst) writes great thrillers set either in or just before WWII. In truth he's probably closer to Eric Ambler or Graham Greene than Fleming but I'm sure that Bond fans will dig him.
    By the way, who's this Rebekah Brooks chic that Bentley mentions?

    I have never read Furst, but have seen some great Q&As and writing videos with his as the focus on YouTube. Very sharp guy, it seems.
  • edited November 2012 Posts: 2,594
    DB5 wrote:
    I'm currently reading Frederick Forsyth's "The Day of the Jackal." Can't put it down! For those of you who haven nver seen the 1973 Fred Zinnemann film by the same name this is IMHO one of the best movies ever made! I'd recommend watching the film first, then reading the book.

    Agreed but I prefer the book to the film. Love 'Eye of the Needle' too. Both books are superior to the films. Casting Donald Sutherland as Henry Saber was a splendid choice. I've read many spy novels but for the life of me I can't remember the name of them nor who wrote them. I'm hopeless with names. Desmond Bagley is one of them though. Don't know why I remember his name.

  • NicNac wrote:
    @Bentley, is this not a little too similar to your Who Out Bonded Bond thread? That was also a thread to recommend alternatives to Fleming.

    If you feel it's different then please explain, otherwise we will limit this to one thread. I won't close until you give feedback.

    Cheers ;-)

    Whats this guy talking about?
    Anyway Bentley, thanks to you I'm reading Rain and he rocks. Definitely this generation's Bond!

  • Bentley wrote:
    Fellow Agents,
    I have to confess, I don't find a lot to like in Ludlum's work.
    Probably "The Bourne Identity" was his best but even that I found way too long and convoluted and I have to say, I found his literary skills somewhat limited.

    Ludlum was very hit or miss for me, but I thought The Matarese Circle was excellent.



  • Another author I'd recommend is Alex Berenson and his John Wells series. Enjoyable stuff.
  • NicNacNicNac Administrator, Moderator
    Posts: 7,567
    Villiers53 wrote:
    NicNac wrote:
    @Bentley, is this not a little too similar to your Who Out Bonded Bond thread? That was also a thread to recommend alternatives to Fleming.

    If you feel it's different then please explain, otherwise we will limit this to one thread. I won't close until you give feedback.

    Cheers ;-)

    Whats this guy talking about?
    Anyway Bentley, thanks to you I'm reading Rain and he rocks. Definitely this generation's Bond!

    I don't think I was addressing the question to you, and Bentley left weeks ago. So what are you talking about?
  • NicNac wrote:
    Villiers53 wrote:
    NicNac wrote:
    @Bentley, is this not a little too similar to your Who Out Bonded Bond thread? That was also a thread to recommend alternatives to Fleming.

    If you feel it's different then please explain, otherwise we will limit this to one thread. I won't close until you give feedback.

    Cheers ;-)

    Whats this guy talking about?
    Anyway Bentley, thanks to you I'm reading Rain and he rocks. Definitely this generation's Bond!

    I don't think I was addressing the question to you, and Bentley left weeks ago. So what are you talking about?

    Sorry mate but I thought this was a forum?
    Anyway I like this thread and if I understand correctly the idea is to share good authors that would appeal to Fleming fans.
    One I like a lot is Philip Kerr who writes the Bernie Gunther books. They are great and another good writer is Charles Cumming who has just won the Ian Fleming "Silver Dagger" for Foreign Country (a great read with a female head of Mi6). What I like about Cumming is that he is a sought of cross between Fleming and Le Carre and probably writes the sought of stuff that Ian would have wrote if he'd been around today.
    By the way, were's Bentley left for? He was writing the best threads on this site.

  • Also want to re-iterate my recommendation for Bill Granger's November Man series from the 80s/90. Really, really fantastic stuff.
  • Thanks for this Jim.
    "November Man'' looks fantastic. It's out of print in the UK but I've got a used one on the way. The reviews are great and maybe you already know but there's a movie in the hopper starring Dominic Cooper and guess who? 007 himself - Mr.Pierce Brosnan!
    I
  • edited December 2012 Posts: 803
    Double post

  • NicNacNicNac Administrator, Moderator
    Posts: 7,567
    Phil Rickman. Great author who writes crime novels with the hint of the supernatural.
  • Also want to re-iterate my recommendation for Bill Granger's November Man series from the 80s/90. Really, really fantastic stuff.


    What a book- It arrived on Saturday and I read it in two sittings.
    I can't thank you JimThompson45 enough for the recommendation.
    This guy was a hell of a writer and I can't understand why he isn't better known.
    I'm trying to get my hands on as much of his stuff as possible.

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