› ›

Jason Bourne (2002 - present)

1…394041424345»

Comments

  • VenutiusVenutius Yorkshire
    edited November 13 Posts: 3,403
    After Doug Liman hired Tony Gilroy to work on the Bourne Identity script, Gilroy read Ludlam's book and came back unimpressed, saying that 'it's not about people, it's about running to airports'! Liman had spent five years trying to get the film rights before Ludlam sold them to him personally, not to Universal, and at that point he was the sole producer on the film so he could hire whoever he wanted. The Bourne Identity was clearly a personal pet project of Liman's, so it's always struck me as odd that he went to all that effort to get the rights and then hired a writer who didn't even like the source material.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 19,593
    I watched Supremacy and Ultimatum again a few weeks ago after not seeing them in years, and they still pack a punch. I prefer the Greengrasses a bit, as Identity starts really well but I've always felt hits a bit of a flat spot in the third act or so. I was surprised to spot though, after seeing it a few times before, that there's a pretty big plot point in Supremacy which is never really made clear in the film, but one of the deleted scenes actually explains; namely how Brian Cox's character is connected to the oligarch character and why exactly they had Nesky killed in the first place. But funnily enough you never really notice this detail is missing: it's just murky stuff going on.

    I think Supremacy is my favourite. Obviously killing Marie is a bit of a duff bit of fridging, but the idea that the baddies are framing Bourne for a crime to cover their own steps is a brilliant idea for a sequel, and linking it in with Bourne's amnesiac past, making it him who conducted the original assassination which started the whole scheme off, is really lovely story work. Plus you've got great scenes like Bourne tracking Pam Landy's hotel and operation with ease, and the proper pulse-pounding car chase finale which still packs a punch. Ultimatum is very exciting but I could never shake the feeling that they didn't really have as great an idea for extending the story and it feels more like a collection of set pieces to me.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 25,043
    I would rank the films as follows:

    1) Ultimatum
    2) Supremacy
    3) Identity
    4) Legacy
    5) Identity (TV movie)
    6) Jason Bourne
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited November 13 Posts: 19,593
    Must admit I haven't seen Legacy or Jason Bourne since they came out so I don't know which I'd put over the other, I didn't love either.

    One fun thing is that the police bike Bourne rides in Athens in Jason Bourne is on show at a motor museum I did some work at a few months back; my mate I was working with can read Greek, and apparently the text on the front of the bike says 'GREEK POLICE' :D

    jason-bourne-matt-damon-on-bike.jpg?fit=1200%2C650&ssl=1

    I expect they probably do say Greek Police in real life, but it just seemed like a nicely Naked Gun-style bit of literal Hollywood prop making!
  • 007ClassicBondFan007ClassicBondFan
    Posts: 2,751
    mtm wrote: »
    Must admit I haven't seen Legacy or Jason Bourne since they came out so I don't know which I'd put over the other, I didn't love either.

    One fun thing is that the police bike Bourne rides in Athens in Jason Bourne is on show at a motor museum I did some work at a few months back; my mate I was working with can read Greek, and apparently the text on the front of the bike says 'GREEK POLICE' :D

    jason-bourne-matt-damon-on-bike.jpg?fit=1200%2C650&ssl=1

    I expect they probably do say Greek Police in real life, but it just seemed like a nicely Naked Gun-style bit of literal Hollywood prop making!

    Wasn’t big on Legacy or Jason Bourne either - in fact the latter is one of the few films where I actively fell asleep when viewing for the first time!
  • LudovicoLudovico
    Posts: 16,229
    Venutius wrote: »
    After Doug Liman hired Tony Gilroy to work on the Bourne Identity script, Gilroy read Ludlam's book and came back unimpressed, saying that 'it's not about people, it's about running to airports'! Liman had spent five years trying to get the film rights before Ludlam sold them to him personally, not to Universal, and at that point he was the sole producer on the film so he could hire whoever he wanted. The Bourne Identity was clearly a personal pet project of Liman's, so it's always struck me as odd that he went to all that effort to get the rights and then hired a writer who didn't even like the source material.

    Interesting. It's also odd that Liman was happy stray so much from the source material. I have to agree with at least some of Gilroy's assessment. I'm enjoying the novel do far, but there's just too many words. There's a lot of fillers.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 19,593
    Doug Liman is a funny old character, he’s currently at war over the Road House sequel:
    https://www.empireonline.com/movies/news/doug-liman-and-ilya-naishuller-potentially-set-for-duelling-road-house-sequels/
  • DEKE_RIVERSDEKE_RIVERS
    edited 11:49am Posts: 2,540
    Venutius wrote: »
    After Doug Liman hired Tony Gilroy to work on the Bourne Identity script, Gilroy read Ludlam's book and came back unimpressed, saying that 'it's not about people, it's about running to airports'! Liman had spent five years trying to get the film rights before Ludlam sold them to him personally, not to Universal, and at that point he was the sole producer on the film so he could hire whoever he wanted. The Bourne Identity was clearly a personal pet project of Liman's, so it's always struck me as odd that he went to all that effort to get the rights and then hired a writer who didn't even like the source material.

    It's funny because this perfectly describes the sequels.

    Bourne lost his humanity after Marie's death in the second movie.
  • LucknFateLucknFate 007 In New York
    Posts: 2,238
    DEKE_RIVERS wrote: »
    Venutius wrote: »
    After Doug Liman hired Tony Gilroy to work on the Bourne Identity script, Gilroy read Ludlam's book and came back unimpressed, saying that 'it's not about people, it's about running to airports'! Liman had spent five years trying to get the film rights before Ludlam sold them to him personally, not to Universal, and at that point he was the sole producer on the film so he could hire whoever he wanted. The Bourne Identity was clearly a personal pet project of Liman's, so it's always struck me as odd that he went to all that effort to get the rights and then hired a writer who didn't even like the source material.

    It's funny because this perfectly describes the sequels.

    Bourne lost his humanity after Marie's death in the second movie.

    There is a lot of humanity shared between him and Pam Landy, and she comes in the second film. "Someone to sleep with" does not define one's humanity.
  • DEKE_RIVERSDEKE_RIVERS
    Posts: 2,540
    LucknFate wrote: »
    DEKE_RIVERS wrote: »
    Venutius wrote: »
    After Doug Liman hired Tony Gilroy to work on the Bourne Identity script, Gilroy read Ludlam's book and came back unimpressed, saying that 'it's not about people, it's about running to airports'! Liman had spent five years trying to get the film rights before Ludlam sold them to him personally, not to Universal, and at that point he was the sole producer on the film so he could hire whoever he wanted. The Bourne Identity was clearly a personal pet project of Liman's, so it's always struck me as odd that he went to all that effort to get the rights and then hired a writer who didn't even like the source material.

    It's funny because this perfectly describes the sequels.

    Bourne lost his humanity after Marie's death in the second movie.

    There is a lot of humanity shared between him and Pam Landy, and she comes in the second film. "Someone to sleep with" does not define one's humanity.


    I think he becomes robotic and invincible as the series progresses. Maybe he did need to sleep with someone after all.
  • LucknFateLucknFate 007 In New York
    Posts: 2,238
    DEKE_RIVERS wrote: »
    LucknFate wrote: »
    DEKE_RIVERS wrote: »
    Venutius wrote: »
    After Doug Liman hired Tony Gilroy to work on the Bourne Identity script, Gilroy read Ludlam's book and came back unimpressed, saying that 'it's not about people, it's about running to airports'! Liman had spent five years trying to get the film rights before Ludlam sold them to him personally, not to Universal, and at that point he was the sole producer on the film so he could hire whoever he wanted. The Bourne Identity was clearly a personal pet project of Liman's, so it's always struck me as odd that he went to all that effort to get the rights and then hired a writer who didn't even like the source material.

    It's funny because this perfectly describes the sequels.

    Bourne lost his humanity after Marie's death in the second movie.

    There is a lot of humanity shared between him and Pam Landy, and she comes in the second film. "Someone to sleep with" does not define one's humanity.


    I think he becomes robotic and invincible as the series progresses. Maybe he did need to sleep with someone after all.

    I think you're just a sad little individual. Please get a job, or a second job, or an hobby, and devote more time to not being miserable.
  • DEKE_RIVERSDEKE_RIVERS
    Posts: 2,540

    My ranking would be by release date. The first one would be the best, followed closely by the second. The rest are somewhat redundant.

    It's a bit like John Wick, when I think about it.
  • LudovicoLudovico
    Posts: 16,229
    DEKE_RIVERS wrote: »
    Venutius wrote: »
    After Doug Liman hired Tony Gilroy to work on the Bourne Identity script, Gilroy read Ludlam's book and came back unimpressed, saying that 'it's not about people, it's about running to airports'! Liman had spent five years trying to get the film rights before Ludlam sold them to him personally, not to Universal, and at that point he was the sole producer on the film so he could hire whoever he wanted. The Bourne Identity was clearly a personal pet project of Liman's, so it's always struck me as odd that he went to all that effort to get the rights and then hired a writer who didn't even like the source material.

    It's funny because this perfectly describes the sequels.

    Bourne lost his humanity after Marie's death in the second movie.

    I always thought it was a terrible decision to just fridge her like that.

    Reading more of it. I have to agree with the criticism of Gilroy more and more. Bourne is overall rather bland as a character. I often find the other characters more interesting, like that alcoholic English doctor, so far the best in the novel. And on the positive side, Carlos makes for a great shadowy antagonist.
  • VenutiusVenutius Yorkshire
    edited 2:27pm Posts: 3,403
    When Liman was asked to name a film that 'made him want to spit', he said The Bourne Supremacy 'because they took a character that I lovingly created and changed his backstory' and that it wasn't the film he would've made. While he didn't elaborate on how much would've been different, the backstory was the Nesky assassination so neither that nor any of the fallout from it would've been there. Although I guess Liman may have simply taken it from the book instead, where a present-day assassination was pinned on Bourne with no connection to one he'd supposedly done in the past. Brian Cox said that he ran into Liman in an airport years later and Doug said 'For what it's worth, I wouldn't have killed you off', so Abbott would've survived too. Sounds like a completely different film, tbh.
  • LucknFateLucknFate 007 In New York
    Posts: 2,238
    Or just a bitter guy telling people what he wants to hear, and maybe what he thinks they want to hear.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited 3:00pm Posts: 19,593
    Venutius wrote: »
    When Liman was asked to name a film that 'made him want to spit', he said The Bourne Supremacy 'because they took a character that I lovingly created and changed his backstory' and that it wasn't the film he would've made. While he didn't elaborate on how much would've been different, the backstory was the Nesky assassination so neither that nor any of the fallout from it would've been there. Although I guess Liman may have simply taken it from the book instead, where a present-day assassination was pinned on Bourne with no connection to one he'd supposedly done in the past. Brian Cox said that he ran into Liman in an airport years later and Doug said 'For what it's worth, I wouldn't have killed you off', so Abbott would've survived too. Sounds like a completely different film, tbh.

    That's interesting, I've not heard that before. I guess he must mean the Nesky thing yeah, although I don't feel like that substantially changes Bourne's story does it? We knew he killed people. I think it's a top film though (although I do agree with the fridging comments) so I can't quite get behind his comments. He does seem like a tricky character, wasn't he sort of blacklisted for a few years because he's so spiky?
    The Brian Cox thing is funny because I've always felt they just sort of replaced him like-for-like in the next film with Albert Finney! I wish I ran into Brian Cox in airports...
  • VenutiusVenutius Yorkshire
    edited 5:15pm Posts: 3,403
    LucknFate wrote: »
    Or just a bitter guy telling people what he wants to hear, and maybe what he thinks they want to hear.
    Yeah, maybe. By all accounts, Liman's more of a contrary pain in the arse than a yes-man, though, and Cox isn't remotely fussed that he was killed off, so not much to gain by buttering him up, really. But yes, Liman was certainly bitter about being blackballed from directing the sequels. Can't really blame him, tbh, as he's the only reason that the cinematic Bourne exists at all. Still, Mr. and Mrs. Smith made far more at the box office than The Bourne Supremacy did, so I guess he had the last laugh on Universal in that sense. Not that box office takings = a better film, obvs.

  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 19,593
    Yeah I had a look, and maybe 'blacklisted' is too strong, but he certainly brings headaches with him it seems and Bourne Identity went wrong enough for Frank Marshall to feel he had to get the movie finished himself in some way:
    https://www.rogerebert.com/features/doug-liman-roadhouse

    He's certainly an interesting Hollywood character!
  • VenutiusVenutius Yorkshire
    Posts: 3,403
    Yes, Liman himself thought he was being blacklisted and was only saved by Brad Pitt - apparently, Pitt was told that he could make Mr. and Mrs. Smith with any director he chose 'except Doug Liman'. So he went straight to Liman and offered him the gig. Pretty funny, tbf. Although, Pitt ended up falling out with him too...but not as much as Sean Penn did on Fair Game. I'm spotting a pattern...
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 19,593
    Heh! That's great, thanks, I hadn't heard that story. I think I'm going to look into Liman more, he sounds very entertaining! The ongoing Road House sequel(s) story is wonderfully bonkers.
  • LudovicoLudovico
    Posts: 16,229
    I guess that might be why Liman was interested about Bourne in the first place: he felt a kinship with him, one man versus a system bound to get him.
  • VenutiusVenutius Yorkshire
    edited 5:20pm Posts: 3,403
    Ludovico wrote: »
    I guess that might be why Liman was interested about Bourne in the first place: he felt a kinship with him, one man versus a system bound to get him.
    Yeah, I think there's something in that - when an American magazine interviewed Liman at home in 2004, the nameplate on his doorbell was 'Bourne, J.' ! Liman's father was the chief counsel on the Senate committee in the Iran-Contra case, which is maybe where Bourne's instinct to oppose a corrupt system comes from, I guess.
    mtm wrote: »
    Heh! That's great, thanks, I hadn't heard that story. I think I'm going to look into Liman more, he sounds very entertaining! The ongoing Road House sequel(s) story is wonderfully bonkers.
    Yeah and he's still grizzling about it, even now. Mind you, at one point when he was having all that public grief with Universal, Liman actually tried to use eBay to auction off his director's credit for The Bourne Identity! Bloke's a nutter...
  • LudovicoLudovico
    Posts: 16,229
    I really think they should do a new tv series of The Bourne Identity. There's so much material that wasn't used in the movie. And terrorism is maybe even more topical nowadays than it was in the 80s.
Sign In or Register to comment.