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EoN sells up - Amazon MGM to produce 007 going forwards (Steven Knight to Write)

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  • CommanderRossCommanderRoss The bottom of a pitch lake in Eastern Trinidad, place called La Brea
    Posts: 9,033
    Mendes4Lyfe wrote: »
    I think someone said it right with TLD/GE Bond should return. Personally I think Dalton in TLD might be my favourite version of Bond, he is cynical and burnt out, but crucially we don't see much behind the mask. He is carried along on the Breeziness of the adventure that we only see his rage boiling under the surface in moments. I think OHMSS and CR work well as films where the specific goal is to look behind the mask and delve into Bonds character, but otherwise I think just getting a flavour of it, and being too caught up in the story and action is much preferred. It's the same with Bruce Willis in the Diehard series, obviously he is a man with a lot of issues to do with family, his past, addiction, and he would be quite a tragic figure if we stopped and took a deeper look into his home life, but it just so happens that he's caught up with saving new York city that we don't have time for that, so we just glimpse at aspects of his personal side like like shining torches into a dark, deep cave system.

    oddly enough, QoS brings this in spades, a stoic hero who puts his inner turmoil aside to fulfill his mission, and is highly criticised for it as beeing a 'revenge' film, whilst the opposite is true.
    But yes, that's one of the reasons it sits up somewhere on top of the list-i-prefer-not-to-make.
  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe Edward Berger for Bond 27
    Posts: 9,400
    007HallY wrote: »
    I’d say Dalton’s the Bond who made an overt attempt to highlight Bond’s inner conflict if anything. It’s very much there in his performance - look at how he reacts after Saunders’ death/the anger on his face (he even turns away from Kara to face us, the audience, in the moments after, with us seeing his expression). He’s not carried along by the ‘breeziness of the adventure’, he doesn’t follow through with an order to kill a woman, and from there senses something is wrong. He’s doing his duty in the way he sees as right. It’s all very comparable to CR if anything!

    Yeah, that's what I said, hes a very Fleming cynical Bond but the story is brisk enough that we don't get the opportunity to see behind the mask, besides in brief moments such as Saunders death. He is forced into keeping composed as a result of his circumstance, whether it be his passion for avenging his fallen 00's, playing the role of the Koskovs' friend for Kara's benefit, or putting on a smug, unbothered persona to hide his desperation when captured in Afghanistan (another moment where the cynical Bond bubbles to the surface "we're inside a bloody Russian airbase!")

  • 007HallY007HallY
    edited 1:54pm Posts: 6,324
    Mendes4Lyfe wrote: »
    007HallY wrote: »
    I’d say Dalton’s the Bond who made an overt attempt to highlight Bond’s inner conflict if anything. It’s very much there in his performance - look at how he reacts after Saunders’ death/the anger on his face (he even turns away from Kara to face us, the audience, in the moments after, with us seeing his expression). He’s not carried along by the ‘breeziness of the adventure’, he doesn’t follow through with an order to kill a woman, and from there senses something is wrong. He’s doing his duty in the way he sees as right. It’s all very comparable to CR if anything!

    Yeah, that's what I said, hes a very Fleming cynical Bond but the story is brisk enough that we don't get the opportunity to see behind the mask, besides in brief moments such as Saunders death. He is forced into keeping composed as a result of his circumstance, whether it be his passion for avenging his fallen 00's, playing the role of the Koskovs' friend for Kara's benefit, or putting on a smug, unbothered persona to hide his desperation when captured in Afghanistan (another moment where the cynical Bond bubbles to the surface "we're inside a bloody Russian airbase!")

    The 'horses arse' scene also to mind as a genuine moment where Bond seems very human and his front slips in front of Kara. It's a sense you get which the film is trying to play up with Kara/Bond's relationship, particularly in regards to his deception towards her. Bond's mask is very much taken off when he decides to tell Kara the truth! Honestly though, I don't think it's all that dissimilar to CR. The whole point of that film is that Bond puts up that 'front' when doing his job and until he tells Vesper he's ready to retire (and of course the reaction to her death) he maintains that mask.

    I know it's annoying, but TLD is a major reason we have CR ;) I don't get the sense you'd particularly enjoy a Bond 26 that drew heavily upon TLD. Personally, I certainly don't mind a Bond film giving us a sense of his struggles or conflict in the story. Just depends on how it's done.
  • FrankXavierFrankXavier
    Posts: 758
    DEKE_RIVERS wrote: »
    There are people who grew up with the Brosnan era and they just want that. Obviously, they're not going to get it. There will always be some kind of update, whether it's the tone, storytelling, or whatever.
    You spoke some truth.

  • 007HallY007HallY
    Posts: 6,324
    FrankXavier wrote: »
    DEKE_RIVERS wrote: »
    There are people who grew up with the Brosnan era and they just want that. Obviously, they're not going to get it. There will always be some kind of update, whether it's the tone, storytelling, or whatever.
    You spoke some truth.

    Probably true, yes!

    I dunno, I think it's ironic that despite this longing for a GE or TLD for Bond 26, those are the two films which played a major role in giving us the Craig films! GE with its themes of Bond's relevancy in the modern world, a villain who comes back from the dead and operates in 'the shadows', the references to Bond's childhood. And of course TLD with Bond going against MI6 (or indeed 'rogue') to get the job done etc.

    Again, I doubt some here will be happy with anything we get. It is what it is ;)
  • 007ClassicBondFan007ClassicBondFan
    Posts: 2,734
    Who is asking for a return to the Brosnan era though? I mean yeah there are the fancasts with him coming back as an older Bond but other than that I don’t see anyone suggesting a return to the tone/style of his era. I think we’re all pretty much in the same boat in thinking that an update is needed.
  • 007HallY007HallY
    Posts: 6,324
    I think it's a minor subset of fans within a subset who'd want that. I do agree the majority want an update, although no one has any concept of what that could mean at this point!

    Anyway, we'll see.
  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe Edward Berger for Bond 27
    Posts: 9,400
    007HallY wrote: »
    Mendes4Lyfe wrote: »
    007HallY wrote: »
    I’d say Dalton’s the Bond who made an overt attempt to highlight Bond’s inner conflict if anything. It’s very much there in his performance - look at how he reacts after Saunders’ death/the anger on his face (he even turns away from Kara to face us, the audience, in the moments after, with us seeing his expression). He’s not carried along by the ‘breeziness of the adventure’, he doesn’t follow through with an order to kill a woman, and from there senses something is wrong. He’s doing his duty in the way he sees as right. It’s all very comparable to CR if anything!

    Yeah, that's what I said, hes a very Fleming cynical Bond but the story is brisk enough that we don't get the opportunity to see behind the mask, besides in brief moments such as Saunders death. He is forced into keeping composed as a result of his circumstance, whether it be his passion for avenging his fallen 00's, playing the role of the Koskovs' friend for Kara's benefit, or putting on a smug, unbothered persona to hide his desperation when captured in Afghanistan (another moment where the cynical Bond bubbles to the surface "we're inside a bloody Russian airbase!")

    The 'horses arse' moment also to mind as a genuine moment where Bond seems very human. It's a sense you get which the film is trying to play up with Kara/Bond's relationship, particularly in regards to his deception towards her. Bond's mask is very much taken off when he decides to tell Kara the truth! Honestly though, I don't think it's all that dissimilar to CR. The whole point of that film is that Bond puts up that 'front' when doing his job and until he tells Vesper he's ready to retire (and of course the reaction to her death) he maintains that mask.

    I know it's annoying, but TLD is a major reason we have CR ;) I don't get the sense you'd particularly enjoy a Bond 26 that drew heavily upon TLD. Personally, I certainly don't mind a Bond film giving us a sense of his struggles or conflict in the story. Just depends on how it's done.

    That's why I used the example of John McClane in Die Hard. you could say his mask is off in a similar fashion to Dalton in that he is at a low ebb professionally and personally. If you were to take John McClane out of the context of saving New York he would doubtless become a very sad figure very quickly. likewise, if you were to take Dalton in TLD aside and have an frank conversation he would probably be a mess of psychological issues and loneliness. but the point is, and this is crucial, we are witnessing it from the outside looking in. that's what I mean by not seeing behind the mask, I think you may have misunderstood slightly. we witness Dalton developing feelings for Kara, but he doesn't bare his soul in the same way that Bond does falling for Vesper or Tracy.
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