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Robert Donat and the 39 Steps - prototype Bond?

GetafixGetafix
edited August 2012 in General Discussion Posts: 11,425
Much is often made about FRWL's borrowings from NBNW, but what about Hitch's other mistaken identity/chase classic, The 39 Steps? With its espionage themed story and excellent train sequence it surely has as much right to be regarded as an influence on Bond. Not only that but it is hard not to imagine that John Buchan might have been an influence on Fleming. Add in the fact that Robert Donat captures so much of the insouciance, dash and charm that we've come to associate with Bond and (IMO) it's difficult not to see it as a significant precursor and influence upon the early Bond movies.

Comments

  • boldfingerboldfinger
    edited August 2012 Posts: 5,767
    John Buchan might have had influence on the film Bond, but rather less on Fleming.

    As for the influences on the creation of the films, there is at least as much in it from Dashiell Hammett´s Continental Op and from some Hitchcock films as there is from Fleming. I don´t know if it was intentional or not, but it´s there. And one could probably find various other sources of influence too if one were a bit more educated than I am ;-). So, to say The 39 might have been a prototype Bond is a bit too all-inclusive IMO, but it certainly left its mark on the Bond makers.
  • GetafixGetafix
    Posts: 11,425
    I guess part of what I'm trying to say is that for the generation that made the early Bonds, films like The 39 Steps were reference points. I definitely see the mix of action, romance, high drama and humour in the T39Ss as proto-Bond.
  • RisicoRisico
    Posts: 97
    That's a really interesting idea, and The 39 Steps is one of my favourite films of all time! If we're talking about the literary Bond, Fleming said directly that his concept was essentially 'Bulldog Drummond meets Fu Manchu'. The way I see Fleming's Bond (in terms of Fleming's influences) is as a wartime (1940s) SOE agent operating in 1950s peace-time, fighting 1930s pulp villains. On that basis, I wouldn't necessarily agree that Donat's Hannay is an influence on Bond as much as the literary Hannay may have been, but I do think Professor Jordan could certainly be regarded as something of a proto-Bond villain.

    Regarding Chandler, I also love how in the later books some of that Chandleresque melancholy and introspection starts to come out in OO7. Wonderful stuff.
  • SaintMarkSaintMark
    Posts: 7,653
    boldfinger wrote:
    John Buchan might have had influence on the film Bond, but rather less on Fleming.

    A rather bold statement and not quite correct as John Buchans books would most probably have been read by Ian Fleming as a teenager. There is a book "The Dureable desperadoes by William Vivian Butler" in which is written about the inspirations of mr Fleming by some durable heroes like Buldog drummond, Simon Templar, The Toof, Blackshirt, Norman Conquest. Fleming more than once said that his original intention had been to produce an updated version of Bulldog Drummond and similar pre-war thriller series.

    As for the influences on the creation of the films, there is at least as much in it from Dashiell Hammett´s Continental Op and from some Hitchcock films as there is from Fleming. I don´t know if it was intentional or not, but it´s there. And one could probably find various other sources of influence too if one were a bit more educated than I am ;-). So, to say The 39 might have been a prototype Bond is a bit too all-inclusive IMO, but it certainly left its mark on the Bond makers.

    Well I would say that you are wrong, Fleming has always admitted to being influenced by pre-war writers. The gentleman heroes and desperadoes, that aim to do right whatever the personal cost. Hitchcocks The 39 Steps is a visual and exciting movie well made far before Fleming started writing his 007 tales. In some aspects Simon Templar, the Saint, has many aspects in the books that have been used by the producers of the movies to create the movie version of 007. The tv and movie Saint is a lesser powerhouse than the pre-war Saint from the books. He is perhaps a far better example of prototype movie-Bond, in manner of British, dressing, lethalness, sense of humour, style, etc. Not so much my opinion as a fact.

  • boldfingerboldfinger
    Posts: 5,767
    Getafix wrote:
    I guess part of what I'm trying to say is that for the generation that made the early Bonds, films like The 39 Steps were reference points. I definitely see the mix of action, romance, high drama and humour in the T39Ss as proto-Bond.
    Agreed.

  • boldfingerboldfinger
    Posts: 5,767
    SaintMark wrote:
    A rather bold statement and not quite correct as John Buchans books would most probably have been read by Ian Fleming as a teenager. There is a book "The Dureable desperadoes by William Vivian Butler" in which is written about the inspirations of mr Fleming by some durable heroes like Buldog drummond, Simon Templar, The Toof, Blackshirt, Norman Conquest. Fleming more than once said that his original intention had been to produce an updated version of Bulldog Drummond and similar pre-war thriller series.

    Well I would say that you are wrong, Fleming has always admitted to being influenced by pre-war writers. The gentleman heroes and desperadoes, that aim to do right whatever the personal cost. Hitchcocks The 39 Steps is a visual and exciting movie well made far before Fleming started writing his 007 tales. In some aspects Simon Templar, the Saint, has many aspects in the books that have been used by the producers of the movies to create the movie version of 007. The tv and movie Saint is a lesser powerhouse than the pre-war Saint from the books. He is perhaps a far better example of prototype movie-Bond, in manner of British, dressing, lethalness, sense of humour, style, etc. Not so much my opinion as a fact.
    As my name so are my statements ;-).
    It seems my research didn´t suffice. I happily stand corrected.

  • MichaelDMichaelD
    Posts: 3
    The new Bond film Skyfall seems to have been influenced by Buchan, though Fleming was not involved. Buchan's final Hannay novel, "Island of Sheep" features the following:
    - Central figure is Richard Hannay who, like Bond, is a senior military officer with Scottish roots and sophisticated tastes
    - Hannay has the task of protecting "Haraldsen" who, like M, is being pursued with deadly intent by a ruthless villain because of a perceived injustice in the deep past.
    - Hannay takes Haraldsen to a secluded mansion on an island off Scotland, set in a barren, treeless northern landscape
    - The mansion is named "Sea Fell" - perhaps the inspiration for Skyfall?
    - As the villains approach the mansion across the open downs, Hannay sends Haraldsen down an escape tunnel to safety.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    edited February 2013 Posts: 28,694
    MichaelD wrote:
    The new Bond film Skyfall seems to have been influenced by Buchan, though Fleming was not involved. Buchan's final Hannay novel, "Island of Sheep" features the following:
    - Central figure is Richard Hannay who, like Bond, is a senior military officer with Scottish roots and sophisticated tastes
    - Hannay has the task of protecting "Haraldsen" who, like M, is being pursued with deadly intent by a ruthless villain because of a perceived injustice in the deep past.
    - Hannay takes Haraldsen to a secluded mansion on an island off Scotland, set in a barren, treeless northern landscape
    - The mansion is named "Sea Fell" - perhaps the inspiration for Skyfall?
    - As the villains approach the mansion across the open downs, Hannay sends Haraldsen down an escape tunnel to safety.

    The parallels are insane! Someone investigate to see if Logan or P&W are big Buchan fans.
  • NapoleonPluralNapoleonPlural
    Posts: 512
    Yes, that's interesting.

    Of course, the banter between Hannay and the blonde in the back of the police car is similar to Bond and Triple X in the back of Jaws' van. (And Claire Danes and the guy in the back of The Terminator's vehicle in Term 3.)
  • GetafixGetafix
    Posts: 11,425
    I am sure that Mendes had the 39 steps partly in mind when developing the end of SF. It would have been nice if there had been a bit more of Bond and M travelling through the Highlands IMO. Even though it's very long I feel like there are key scenes missing from SF.
  • thelivingroyalethelivingroyale
    Posts: 12,837
    I think The 39 Steps feels more like Bond than NBNW does. Although I haven't seen NBNW for a long time.
  • GetafixGetafix
    edited February 2013 Posts: 11,425
    thelivingroyale wrote:
    I think The 39 Steps feels more like Bond than NBNW does. Although I haven't seen NBNW for a long time.

    Hitch's 39 Steps is such a great movie. It feels so modern and Donnat is excellent. It is definitely proto Bond but so is NBNW.
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