SKYFALL: Is this the best Bond film?

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  • edited May 14 Posts: 720
    Some of the blue screen and compositing in MR is spotty, but on the whole I think it’s a fantastically visual Bond film where the money is really on screen in a number of aspects that in some respects were never topped. The sheer amount of big-name location shots and massive Ken Adam sets make it a romp that’s as impressive as it is silly. I’ve really come around on MR. That said, I certainly don’t think it’s better than TSWLM.
    The cinematography is definitely like top 5 Bond for me.

    I can't imagine what it must've been like to hear that amazing John Barry score in the movie theater.
  • AnotherZorinStoogeAnotherZorinStooge Bramhall (Irish)
    edited May 15 Posts: 726
    Some of the blue screen and compositing in MR is spotty, but on the whole I think it’s a fantastically visual Bond film where the money is really on screen in a number of aspects that in some respects were never topped. The sheer amount of big-name location shots and massive Ken Adam sets make it a romp that’s as impressive as it is silly. I’ve really come around on MR. That said, I certainly don’t think it’s better than TSWLM.
    The cinematography is definitely like top 5 Bond for me.

    I can't imagine what it must've been like to hear that amazing John Barry score in the movie theater.

    Top one.

    Just wish they'd put similar focus on plot, character and men with hats
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 18,389
    I went back and listened to the Empire interview with Purvis & Wade about SF; one little tidbit I can't quite remember if it's come up since is that in one draft Silva's island (which they vaguely modelled after Blofeld's castle in Fleming's YOLT) was going to be a prison in which he'd been incarcerated, but he'd become the ruler of.
  • mtm wrote: »
    I went back and listened to the Empire interview with Purvis & Wade about SF; one little tidbit I can't quite remember if it's come up since is that in one draft Silva's island (which they vaguely modelled after Blofeld's castle in Fleming's YOLT) was going to be a prison in which he'd been incarcerated, but he'd become the ruler of.

    If they had done that the movie would get Dark Knight Rises comparisons in addition to all the Dark Knight comparisons!
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 18,389
    Oh does that happen in Dark Knight? That's funny, especially considering how it's already accused of that, you're right! I can't remember it.
  • Posts: 5,519
    That's interesting. Never knew that! It works and reinforces what Silva can do, but it may have added a bit too much unnecessary story to the plot. I also remember reading at one point they considered adapting the brainwashing scene from TMWTGG. Same issue probably, it was probably too much.
  • AnotherZorinStoogeAnotherZorinStooge Bramhall (Irish)
    Posts: 726
    Rewatched TWINE and, against my better judgment, DAD recently and saw so much of Skyfall in both films, the latter especially.
  • edited June 30 Posts: 5,519
    Oh yeah, there’s a lot of TWINE in SF. It’s one of the many times Bond echoes itself.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,749
    There’s definitely some elements in Brosnan’s films that turn up in Craig’s it just took better filmmakers to be able to execute them.
  • mtm wrote: »
    Oh does that happen in Dark Knight? That's funny, especially considering how it's already accused of that, you're right! I can't remember it.

    Bane essentially rules over the underground pit prison that he escaped from in his past.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 18,389
    007HallY wrote: »
    That's interesting. Never knew that! It works and reinforces what Silva can do, but it may have added a bit too much unnecessary story to the plot. I also remember reading at one point they considered adapting the brainwashing scene from TMWTGG. Same issue probably, it was probably too much.

    Oh yes, I forgot they mentioned that too.
  • AnotherZorinStoogeAnotherZorinStooge Bramhall (Irish)
    edited June 30 Posts: 726
    There’s definitely some elements in Brosnan’s films that turn up in Craig’s it just took better filmmakers to be able to execute them.

    It's a strange one

    SF has the better screenplay but TWINE has a tidier plot and whilst Renard is the better villain, Bardem gave the better performance.

    Gustav Graves is a prototype of Silva, albeit with added snarl.

  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,749
    Renard wasn’t the villain.
  • edited June 30 Posts: 5,519
    mtm wrote: »
    007HallY wrote: »
    That's interesting. Never knew that! It works and reinforces what Silva can do, but it may have added a bit too much unnecessary story to the plot. I also remember reading at one point they considered adapting the brainwashing scene from TMWTGG. Same issue probably, it was probably too much.

    Oh yes, I forgot they mentioned that too.

    I can see the instinct to do it, and it's not unreasonable for EON, Logan, Mendes and Purvis/Wade - who all know their Fleming- to contemplate going there. But I think it was much more impactful seeing Bond choose to go into his little alcoholic exile after his injuries. It also makes it more impactful seeing him decide to return in the name of duty to MI6. It's completely his choice ultimately and makes that changing point much more concise (I believe SF's 'inciting incident' in this way comes relatively late in the script/film we have anyway - the 20 minute mark - so dawdling and setting up a brainwashed Bond and his recovery would have dragged anyway and made it a slower film). Take that away and it's not as big a character moment. It makes him less Bondian ironically. It's a reason I always say adapting Fleming directly isn't in itself always a good thing to do.

    Having Silva pull the strings and try to make Bond kill M kills the similarities they share too. In the film we get they're weirdly kindred spirits and go through similar experiences with M. The only difference is Bond maintains his loyalty and a sense of duty, while Silva becomes consumed with revenge and anarchy and pays for it. In this early version Silva also ultimately fails to get the brainwashed Bond to kill M. In the SF we have it's clear he wants to kill M by his own hand, and it's even his undoing in that ironic way because he's so obsessed with doing so. I think the version we got was much better, and it's interesting that they developed it the way they did. I think they did a fantastic job with this script.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 18,389
    007HallY wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    007HallY wrote: »
    That's interesting. Never knew that! It works and reinforces what Silva can do, but it may have added a bit too much unnecessary story to the plot. I also remember reading at one point they considered adapting the brainwashing scene from TMWTGG. Same issue probably, it was probably too much.

    Oh yes, I forgot they mentioned that too.



    Having Silva pull the strings and try to make Bond kill M kills the similarities they share too. In the film we get they're weirdly kindred spirits and go through similar experiences with M.

    Yeah one bit in the interview they talk about Silva sees himself and Bond as kindred spirits, and yet they aren't really and Bond doesn't quite know what he's on about! :)
  • edited June 30 Posts: 5,519
    mtm wrote: »
    007HallY wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    007HallY wrote: »
    That's interesting. Never knew that! It works and reinforces what Silva can do, but it may have added a bit too much unnecessary story to the plot. I also remember reading at one point they considered adapting the brainwashing scene from TMWTGG. Same issue probably, it was probably too much.

    Oh yes, I forgot they mentioned that too.



    Having Silva pull the strings and try to make Bond kill M kills the similarities they share too. In the film we get they're weirdly kindred spirits and go through similar experiences with M.

    Yeah one bit in the interview they talk about Silva sees himself and Bond as kindred spirits, and yet they aren't really and Bond doesn't quite know what he's on about! :)

    Yes. It's bit like TMWTGG's lunch scene. Or to a lesser extent Travelyan during the graveyard scene in GE. The villain sees Bond as basically being a parallel to him, and Bond outright rejects it. In truth Bond is probably not unlike these villains (especially Silva). But his steadfast devotion to duty keeps him from evil despite his flaws and vices.

    Brainwashing would probably overcomplicate that. Can't imagine a SF with that subplot!
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited June 30 Posts: 18,389
    Yes, apparently they first considered Silva to be based on Fleming's Scaramanga, but in Blofeld's situation in YOLT. The Blofeld angle I guess remains as he kind of is an equivalent of YOLT Blofeld in the finished thing: he's in exile (in Japan! Or is it China in the film? It's a bit unclear) on an island after being effectively beaten by MI6, where he's since retreated and built himself a new empire.
    007HallY wrote: »
    Brainwashing would probably overcomplicate that. Can't imagine a SF with that subplot!

    Yeah I guess it was a very early version where they considered that!
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