EoN sells up - Amazon MGM to produce 007 going forwards (Heyman and Pascal confirmed as producers)

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  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited 10:22am Posts: 17,997
    echo wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    GE modernised the Bonds at that point and brought in a bit more of a dramatic feel here and there, it's hard to imagine Roger doing the statue park confrontation or 'keeps you alone' bits, or the M scene, even though it's possible to think of him being comfortable with some other parts of the film. It's a progression and a gentle slope to Craig.
    I remember being pretty stunned in the cinema after seeing TWINE as it felt much more dramatic and emotional than Bond had ever done before and like it had really pushed the boundaries, nowadays it's quite hard to notice much difference between that and TND.

    GE feels like more care was taken with it, after six years of no Bond. That's why it has a "greatest hits" feel to me, that United Artists had to be careful and not fail.

    Yeah, and I suspect that's probably where we'll be going with B26 too to some extent for much the same reason. It'll feel fresh but I'd surprised if they try and scare the horses much on a CR kind of scale.
    echo wrote: »
    TWINE I liked at the time, more or less, but its drama got eclipsed by the Craig era storylines, which were done better. The sloppy second-unit action sequences and bad performances in TWINE jump out at me now, after Craig, and make TWINE all but unwatchable.

    Yes it feels much tamer now, like a sort of proto attempt at a Craig but just falling between two stools and being neither an old school Bond or something new and dramatic.
    I always think, when folks are shocked and appalled at Bond having a daughter or dying, or a lady having the 007 number, or him having blond hair etc. and go on about it being an unacceptable change to the formula, that it's easy to forget that something like LALD or TWINE or OHMSS even were big shakeups of what had come before, doing stuff Bond had never done previously and which felt pretty seismic at the time, and yet nowadays with hindsight we don't even notice. They're each just another Bond film in the series.
  • SecretAgentMan⁰⁰⁷SecretAgentMan⁰⁰⁷ Lekki, Lagos, Nigeria
    edited 10:20am Posts: 2,551
    I agree with @007HallY & @mtm on GoldenEye. @DEKE_RIVERS for me, Eric Serra's score also added to making GE more dark and dramatic. So you mean an 18yr boy won't find Onatopp unsettling? Plus, isn't that the age when a man's body gets too hyper-sensitive? Also, in real life as a man, the sort of women you once liked in your teens, aren't the sort you later like in your 30s or as you get older. So you could be sub-consciously looking at Onatopp from your present day.
  • Posts: 1,934
    007HallY wrote: »
    I don't know, I saw GE when I was almost 20. I didn't find Xena that dark.

    And Bond didn't f* with her which made it pointless.

    Ok… 😂 not sure it was advisable for Bond to do so seeing where that went for her victims.

    She’s a very macabre character. Her method of killing is pretty outrageous, but it’s in the precedent of Jaws’ metal teeth or Oddjob’s hat. That said she’s definitely more on the psychopathic side compared to other secondary Bond villains, and it’s something the film leans into. She seems to take pleasure (seemingly sexual) in mowing down a roomful of innocents, or suffocating a man to death. Actually she’s one of the darkest Bond henchmen/women of the series in that way, and the film really leans into that violence.

    Well, It's a Bond movie. It's exactly what he should have done.

    It's like having a car with gadgets and not using it... oh, wait
    ;)

    It feels like a very watered-down version of Basic Instinct.
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    Posts: 6,690
    007HallY wrote: »
    I don't know, I saw GE when I was almost 20. I didn't find Xena that dark.

    And Bond didn't f* with her which made it pointless.

    Ok… 😂 not sure it was advisable for Bond to do so seeing where that went for her victims.

    She’s a very macabre character. Her method of killing is pretty outrageous, but it’s in the precedent of Jaws’ metal teeth or Oddjob’s hat. That said she’s definitely more on the psychopathic side compared to other secondary Bond villains, and it’s something the film leans into. She seems to take pleasure (seemingly sexual) in mowing down a roomful of innocents, or suffocating a man to death. Actually she’s one of the darkest Bond henchmen/women of the series in that way, and the film really leans into that violence.

    Well, It's a Bond movie. It's exactly what he should have done.

    It's like having a car with gadgets and not using it... oh, wait
    ;)

    It feels like a very watered-down version of Basic Instinct.

    That's a good observation about Basic Instinct.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 17,997
    Like an over-strong version of GE? Yeah, good description ;)
  • edited 10:30am Posts: 5,184
    007HallY wrote: »
    I don't know, I saw GE when I was almost 20. I didn't find Xena that dark.

    And Bond didn't f* with her which made it pointless.

    Ok… 😂 not sure it was advisable for Bond to do so seeing where that went for her victims.

    She’s a very macabre character. Her method of killing is pretty outrageous, but it’s in the precedent of Jaws’ metal teeth or Oddjob’s hat. That said she’s definitely more on the psychopathic side compared to other secondary Bond villains, and it’s something the film leans into. She seems to take pleasure (seemingly sexual) in mowing down a roomful of innocents, or suffocating a man to death. Actually she’s one of the darkest Bond henchmen/women of the series in that way, and the film really leans into that violence.

    Well, It's a Bond movie. It's exactly what he should have done.

    It's like having a car with gadgets and not using it... oh, wait
    ;)

    It feels like a very watered-down version of Basic Instinct.

    I wouldn’t say it always should happen, especially with the henchwoman (in fact in this case you’re hoping Bond doesn’t fall into the same trap the poor admiral did). The BMW stinger missiles are such a missed opportunity, agreed!

    To each their own. I think she’s one of the weirdest, twisted, but memorable secondary villains of the series. And I have no issue with Basic Instinct or Bond taking inspiration from it! Even if they’re very different.
  • Posts: 15,613
    echo wrote: »
    A Bond film based in Africa would be interesting.

    I'd love a Bond film set extensively South Africa. With Pearl Thusi as a Bond girl. And/or Chiedza Mhende.
    I believe the Augustus Trevelyan version was originally meant for Anthony Hopkins.

    I'm of two minds about this. An older Trevelyan depicted as a twisted mentor figure of Bond would have given the character gravitas and authority, but I can't see Hopkins (or Rickman) being much of a credible physical challenge in the climax. Unless Trevelyan had been split into two: the leader of Janus and the henchman who goes against Bond mano a mano. Come to think of it, it might have been interesting: say the head of Janus personally trained Bond AND said henchman.
  • edited 11:19am Posts: 500
    I don't know if Mission Impossible Final Reckoning will be a big hit, Mission Impossible Dead Reckoning underperformed considerably at the box office, but if MI 8 does NTTD box office it may put pressure on Amazon. How do you top Tom Cruise hanging on to a real plane? It's going to be very tough to cast a new Bond actor and do green screen action when Cruise raised the action bar.

    I think the next Bond actor should do one real stunt. Maybe hanging on the side of a car or some jump. It doesn’t have to be some crazy stunt but just convincing enough to make you know the actor did it for real. Nothing too dangerous. For example the actor is hanging 50 feet in the air then it's cgi'ed a bit in post production to make it look he's much higher up. Real but then exaggerated in post production.
  • Posts: 15,613
    But Bond is more than his action scenes. It's also the quiet moments that must stand out. Atmosphere, dialogues, they matter a lot.
  • edited 11:22am Posts: 500
    Well yes but the big stunts defined the franchise in the 70s and 80s. The Spy Who Loved Me opening was the moment the franchise changed. It set a new standard in action, in what was possible.
  • SecretAgentMan⁰⁰⁷SecretAgentMan⁰⁰⁷ Lekki, Lagos, Nigeria
    Posts: 2,551
    bondywondy wrote: »
    I don't know if Mission Impossible Final Reckoning will be a big hit, Mission Impossible Dead Reckoning underperformed considerably at the box office, but if MI 8 does NTTD box office it may put pressure on Amazon. How do you top Tom Cruise hanging on to a real plane? It's going to be very tough to cast a new Bond actor and do green screen action when Cruise raised the action bar. I think the next Bond actor should do one real stunt. Maybe hanging on the side of a car.

    Yeah. I don't think hanging on moving vehicles is new in movies, though. For MI, I'm sure the difference would be the camera angles, higher altitude and all that. But we'll see. But all in all, it isn't entirely new. Except Chris adds something new to it.
    In TLD, Bond parachuting out of a plummeting jeep was really inventive. Yeah, so I think even if Bond stunts go bombastic too, there's always that element of inventiveness that makes them standout.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 17,997
    Yeah I want big stunts, there's nothing wrong with that at all. I don't mind if the actor doesn't do them, that's extremely unusual, but hopefully they'd do enough action to convince it's them. Craig and Dalton got it right I think.
  • edited 11:29am Posts: 5,184
    I don’t think it’ll matter as we’re a bit away from Bond 26 anyway. Bond has always financially outperformed MI too at the box office, and that was with Tom Cruise scaling large buildings and doing crazy stunts. MI also has quite a soft fanbase at the best of times compared to Bond, and it’s a major reason why the latest underperformed to the extent it did in 2023 with specific competition (there was little excitement or incentive to see it in the cinema. Very much an element of ‘I can catch this in a month or two’. Still not seen it myself!)

    I’m sure the next one will do better than the last. I’m not sure how high its ceiling goes though, even if they’re well regarded. I must admit, I have no interest in paying for a ticket to see this one (MI can be very hit or miss for me. Not a Tom Cruise fan either if I’m honest).
  • edited 11:35am Posts: 500
    The end train sequence in MI7 was cgi. Cruise/Paramount are clever in selling one scene that is clearly real or real with limited cgi (the bi-planes in Final Reckoning). The rest of the action can be cgi/fake backgrounds etc. It's hard to go back to all practical/real stunts in the era of cgi and now AI.
  • edited 11:45am Posts: 5,184
    Oh, all stunts in cinematic history has used some form of SFX (so more practically done ‘fake stuff’ - think the back projections we get a lot in older Bond movies), if not VFX and CGI. Tom Cruise scaling a large building is a great marketing asset (although again, I find it just adds a bit to Cruise’s weirdness), but ultimately his safety harness and wires are going to be edited away, VFX will be used for the backgrounds, and CGI will be incorporated to create a big sandstorm for story purposes.
  • Posts: 15,613
    007HallY wrote: »
    I don’t think it’ll matter as we’re a bit away from Bond 26 anyway. Bond has always financially outperformed MI too at the box office, and that was with Tom Cruise scaling large buildings and doing crazy stunts. MI also has quite a soft fanbase at the best of times compared to Bond, and it’s a major reason why the latest underperformed to the extent it did in 2023 with specific competition (there was little excitement or incentive to see it in the cinema. Very much an element of ‘I can catch this in a month or two’. Still not seen it myself!)

    I’m sure the next one will do better than the last. I’m not sure how high its ceiling goes though, even if they’re well regarded. I must admit, I have no interest in paying for a ticket to see this one (MI can be very hit or miss for me. Not a Tom Cruise fan either if I’m honest).

    Worrying about action sequences is a bit cart before horse at the moment: first they need an idea for the next movie, characters, a plot, casting...
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 17,997
    bondywondy wrote: »
    The end train sequence in MI7 was cgi.

    Well, some is, some isn't. There's enough real stuff in there to sell it, and at points the actors are clearly on top of a real train. At other points they have to use effects, I don't mind that.
  • Posts: 386
    Tom Cruise uses plenty of green screen, they've been called out for lying about it.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 17,997
    Yes of course, several bits of the train are obviously comped; like when he ducks for the tunnel etc. When have they lied about it?
  • edited 5:19pm Posts: 5,184
    Has he ever lied about it? The sense I've gotten is him doing the stunts is put at the forefront of the advertisements for these films (which makes sense). But you can search on YouTube and find videos from Industrial Light and Magic openly showing what they did in terms of VFX for these films. So they've certainly not swept anything under the rug.

    But for sure it's a common misconception I've heard - that's to say everything in MI is 'real' and there's no VFX. It's something I liked about NTTD's advertisements - you heard from the SFX, VFX and stunt leads in certain promos, and it really gives a sense of how big the team is making those films (and it's not just the lead actor jumping off of bridges!) That said I'm sure MI has something like that, even if Cruise's 'action man' image is played up more.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 17,997
    I think they said stuff for Maverick like 'no vfx', which is obviously bobbins, and a bit disrespectful to the vfx workers who do amazing work; they shouldn't say that- just say we went up in the planes for real.
    As you say, you can see the vfx reels online (although weirdly apparently even behind the scenes shots in EPKs get touched up with effects now- lots of blue screens visible in those shots get tinted to grey to make them less obvious, very rum) and they're quite happy to show that in the much-vaunted HALO jump in Fallout, Tom really did jump out of the plane, but they also shot stuff on the ground in a wind turbine thing like they did for QoS.
  • edited 6:04pm Posts: 5,184
    mtm wrote: »
    I think they said stuff for Maverick like 'no vfx', which is obviously bobbins, and a bit disrespectful to the vfx workers who do amazing work; they shouldn't say that- just say we went up in the planes for real.
    As you say, you can see the vfx reels online (although weirdly apparently even behind the scenes shots in EPKs get touched up with effects now- lots of blue screens visible in those shots get tinted to grey to make them less obvious, very rum) and they're quite happy to show that in the much-vaunted HALO jump in Fallout, Tom really did jump out of the plane, but they also shot stuff on the ground in a wind turbine thing like they did for QoS.

    Didn't know that about Maverick. Yes, that's definitely a film with VFX work even with its well done aircraft work (about 2,500 shots worth more or less of VFX, at least last time I checked).

    I mean, VFX, SFX, and practical stuntwork are really not separate. Go back to Buster Keaton and Charlie Chaplin and you get these guys doing very real jumps, rolls, routines, even putting themselves in dangerous positions, while cinematic 'tricks' are utilised to create the finished scene. We've always had studio work in films too, even if the technology has advanced. It's all just part of filmmaking and the 'magic' of it.
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