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Indiana Jones and the Dial of Destiny (30th June 2023)

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Comments

  • thedovethedove hiding in the Greek underworld
    Posts: 4,982
    Good point @MakeshiftPython I am basing my comments on what some of the reviewers has said. I can't wait till next week then I shall make up my own mind.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 14,986
    talos7 wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    thedove wrote: »
    I am really wondering if the re-shoots or re-edits screwed up a better film? Seems like Waller-Bridge's character is a sore spot, not for how it is played but written. I wonder if down the road we get a directors cut of this film to fill in some of gaps in character. I was especially hurt to hear that they had something with the two characters and they just leave it unexplored. From what I know of the director I can't see this type of "hole" or lost opportunity being something he is responsible for.

    There weren't any reshoots, the stories about those are bogus. I'm sure they edited the film but there's been no sign that it changed significantly in that process.

    I scoffed at the ideas of reshoots and defended what Mangold was saying that there were none; but recent quotes from Ford , one’s that he is on video saying, is causing me doubt. I do think there were reshoots; to what extent I don’t know.

    What did he say?
    MakeshiftPython wrote: »
    Reshoots or additional shooting is typical of Hollywood productions, and is usually done hand in hand with the desire to improve on what they’ve seen in the rough cut.

    It is, so I'm not aware of any cases where a director has actively lied about it. Previous Indy films have notably featured them of course, like the bike chase in Last Crusade, where everyone's hair grows an inch in a couple of seconds!
  • talos7talos7 New Orleans
    Posts: 7,982
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited June 2023 Posts: 14,986
    Just to warn anybody before they click on it, that contains spoilers for the ending. Which I wouldn't have minded knowing about before clicking myself, but too late now. You really could have warned me.

    He says he did a little work on the ending, which could easily mean as part of the main shoot. The YouTubers very much take 'reshoot' to mean that everyone was called back to reshoot significant parts because of the complaints they made about too many women being in it etc.
  • talos7talos7 New Orleans
    Posts: 7,982
    You specifically ask, “ what did he say? “ , not , ‘ does it contain spoilers’?
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited June 2023 Posts: 14,986
    Why would I ask that? The normal thing is to assume that everyone wants to avoid spoilers unless they say otherwise. That's why we have spoiler tags.
    I'll be seeing this film before you will, should I come in here and type out the plot, and then say 'well you didn't ask me not to' when anyone complains? I won't do that of course, I'll be mindful that folks want to enjoy it for themselves.
  • talos7talos7 New Orleans
    Posts: 7,982
    Again, you asked “ what did he say? “ Be careful what you ask for .
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited June 2023 Posts: 14,986
    Again, why would I think that what he said includes spoilers? As you already knew what he said, the nice thing to do would be to mention it. That's all, you don't have to do anything now, I'm just saying it's what I would have done. I wasn't expecting to have to 'be careful'- I thought we were all friends here.
    If everyone else thinks I'm wrong and we should specify 'no spoilers please' with everything, then I'll accept I'm wrong.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,025
    He’s got a point talos. Just say “warning, spoilers” next time.
  • thedovethedove hiding in the Greek underworld
    Posts: 4,982
    Lets see, either the narrative thread was lost by very talented people, or there were re-shoots or re-edits. What difference does it make that a narrative thread was lost or at least not followed up on.

    I love how people say they don't watch YouTubers but then freely quote or say they are saying a certain thing. Re-shoots can happen for many reasons, preview audience feedback, some sort of omission that needs to be addressed. Re-shoots have been around for a long time. Films that go into production hell often will have many either due to audience previews, or producer pressure, or studio pressure.

    One week to see for ourselves what kind of movie this is! I remain forever hopeful that this can be a great sendoff for a pop culture icon!
  • jetsetwillyjetsetwilly
    Posts: 3,279
    Univex wrote: »
    Oh boy...again



    The things these guys are saying...well, they resonate with me. I'll form my own opinion, but these don't bode well for the film.

    I think it's fair to say, even at this stage before I've seen a single frame, that this film is going to be bad.

    I'm predicting I'm going to enjoy the first 20 minutes, then despise everything that follows, because all the criticisms that are being thrown at this film are everything that I hate about modern Hollywood these days - Marvel action, too much CGI, PC box ticking, feminists taking over, male hero turning old and miserable, script by committee.

    Tom Cruise is the only saviour left these days, such is the sad state Hollywood finds itself in now.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited June 2023 Posts: 14,986
    thedove wrote: »
    I love how people say they don't watch YouTubers but then freely quote or say they are saying a certain thing.

    The YouTubers who go on and on about hating all this recent stuff but watch and analyse it relentlessly?
    Being aware of what someone says because it’s quoted in this very thread is not the same as avidly watching all of their output. It’s a logical fallacy to think that awareness of something one doesn’t like somehow undermines that opinion. I’m aware of what Trump says, that doesn’t mean I support him or watch all of his rallies.

    thedove wrote: »
    Re-shoots can happen for many reasons, preview audience feedback, some sort of omission that needs to be addressed. Re-shoots have been around for a long time. Films that go into production hell often will have many either due to audience previews, or producer pressure, or studio pressure.

    They can, but the director said they didn’t do any, there’s no reason to disbelieve him. We do know that the original shoot lasted about a week longer than expected, maybe they did revisit a scene or two during that, it’s not unusual.

    Anyway, here’s a lovely music video for that Williams piece from DoD. I did actually stop watching this as it’s full of nice clips from the film, and I decided I didn’t want to see any more of them! But you don’t mind as much then it’s a nice watch:

  • Fire_and_Ice_ReturnsFire_and_Ice_Returns I am trying to get away from this mountan!
    Posts: 23,395
    I am under no illusion I never thought DOD would be anywhere near as good as the trilogy it may even not be as good as the fourth film, nevertheless I know I will enjoy it its the nostalgia I am going in for.

    Regarding the original ending from what I have read and heard I am grateful they changed it.
  • bondywondybondywondy Uk
    Posts: 303
    thedove wrote: »
    On one hand @bondywondy I find this elephant to be somewhat ageist. Too often stars are thrown in the scrap heap when they reach a certain age. The actor might be talented and still able to act but because of their age they are now only suitable for the "grumpy old" parts. The comedic sidekick to the young hero but not the main character.

    However, you have hit on something that all movies face. The act of taking an audience out of the story. We will know that Harrison is not doing all the stunts and we will have to suspend our disbelief. If the story is engrossing and the action believable then this becomes an easier task. On my first watch of SF I was so caught up in the story Silva's breakout was not questioned, however on subsequent views I started to see how non-sensical it was. However if our hero is riding a horse into a subway and that hero is clearly a stunt person, then we are taken out of the action in the moment.

    People are critical of Waller-Bridge being in the movie, but a younger sidekick was always going to be needed for this movie to help bring some reality to the action situations. Much like Mutt was supposed to be that guy for the last movie. However people don't come to watch the sidekick swing from vines, they come to see Indy do it. It will be fascinating to see how this movie pulls off the young side kick. All reviews I have seen say that her role is underdeveloped and changes within the movie itself. Much like Mutt it seems that people are resentful of Ford sharing the stage.

    As you have stated Hollywood is a business and while it has a creative side to it, the big studios are really only concerned with making money. It is up to the talent to make a story that is engaging, interesting and worthy of investment. In this case the studio is clearly pushing the chips in on a last adventure. They are milking the cow and we can debate whether the cow is dead. Will the milk taste sweet and be plentiful? Or will it be curdled and a trickle? Time shall tell, early signs are somewhere in between.

    I say lets ride with Indy one last time. Or at least the Indy played by Ford. Because at some point a studio head will say "you know we could recast the role and have another actor play the part". When that day comes a new discussion will arise, but for now lets watch our fedora wearing hero get the send-off he deserves!

    All of the big stars in Hollywood are getting old. Cruise/Pitt/Depp/Reeves are approaching 60 or over 60.

    Cruise is looking a bit worn out. Photo from London premiere of MI 7

    2023-06-24-12-27-44.jpg

    Cruise arguably looks 10 years younger (he's 61 next month) but you can't stop time. I hope he isn't making MI films into his 70s but Stallone has just made Expendables 4 (out late summer) and he's 76.
    Sylvester-Stallone.jpg

    His face looks strange.


    I guess what I'm saying is maybe it's better to quit the action film genre in your 50s?

    Maybe - and I'm a hypocrite for saying this.. a 70 plus year old Pierce Brosnan Bond film - Bond recalled to the 00s - could have potential but as a one off film. Never repeated. But overall I don't want to see Indiana Jones/Ethan Hunt/Jean Luc Picard, John Wick/Jason Bourne/Batman etc old.
  • Fire_and_Ice_ReturnsFire_and_Ice_Returns I am trying to get away from this mountan!
    edited June 2023 Posts: 23,395
    INDIANA JONES AND THE DIAL OF DESTINY Movie Review

    There are plot spoilers in this review, they both gave a 7/10 rating.
  • goldenswissroyalegoldenswissroyale Switzerland
    Posts: 4,398
    I'm optimistic that I will enjoy it much more than the negative reviews try us to convince. However, two things could really lower my enjoyment: A lot of (obvious) CGI and the ending.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,025
    I don’t care about CGI, as long as it’s good.
  • Scaramanga1974Scaramanga1974
    Posts: 665
    who gives a monkeys about reviews？ i cant wait for next week. film looks fabulous. i form my own opinion.
  • j_w_pepperj_w_pepper Born on the bayou. I can still hear my old hound dog barkin'.
    Posts: 8,700
    Scaramanga1974 wrote: »
    who gives a monkeys about reviews？ i cant wait for next week. film looks fabulous. i form my own opinion.
    Fully with you here. I'm sure I'm going to enjoy it.
  • shimplyshocking007shimplyshocking007
    Posts: 110
    Ah, fuck it, tiny Tom Cruise for the next Indy.
  • j_w_pepperj_w_pepper Born on the bayou. I can still hear my old hound dog barkin'.
    Posts: 8,700
    shimplyshocking007 wrote: »
    Ah, fuck it, tiny Tom Cruise for the next Indy.
    No thanks. Let him play Gollum in a Harry Potter spinoff.

  • UnivexUnivex
    edited June 2023 Posts: 6,677
    One time I said a member was behaving autistically (he still is) and I got berated. I guess one can come here and call people fat, for example, and that would merit a scoulding. But we can make fun of people’s size. Tiny Tom? Gollum? Really?

    Also, personally I have no problem with the f word, but in the forums?

    Grow up, people.
  • talos7talos7 New Orleans
    Posts: 7,982
    Univex wrote: »
    One time I said a member was behaving autistically (he still is) and I got berated. I guess one can come here and call people fat, for example, and that would merit a scoulding. But we can make fun of people’s size. Tiny Tom? Gollum? Really?

    Also, personally I have no problem with the f word, but in the forums?

    Grow up, people.

    +1
  • shimplyshocking007shimplyshocking007
    Posts: 110
    Apologies for the swearing!
  • delfloriadelfloria
    Posts: 1,708
    Saw it last night. I was actually not disappointed and had a good time. There was a moment right in the middle where it began to feel a little long but then it picked up again and was fine. I'm glad I went in knowing as little as I could about the plot so as to really enjoy the surprises. It got a huge round of applause at the end.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 14,986
    Thanks, that sounds good. I'm definitely steeling myself for the idea that it flags a bit as it does seem quite long, but I must admit with Indy I feel a bit different to most films. This is the last Harrison Indy we'll have, and I know I'll return to it on Blu Ray plenty of times, so I don't mind it playing a bit long because that just means more time to spend with the character before he's gone.
  • delfloriadelfloria
    Posts: 1,708
    mtm wrote: »
    Thanks, that sounds good. I'm definitely steeling myself for the idea that it flags a bit as it does seem quite long, but I must admit with Indy I feel a bit different to most films. This is the last Harrison Indy we'll have, and I know I'll return to it on Blu Ray plenty of times, so I don't mind it playing a bit long because that just means more time to spend with the character before he's gone.

    That's the way I feel about Indy and Bond...........more the better. Even so, you still feel it when the pacing is off for both. Regardless, I look forward to seeing it again.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited June 2023 Posts: 14,986
    This is an enjoyable little featurette about the action:



  • BennyBenny In the shadowsAdministrator, Moderator
    Posts: 14,882
    Another great featurette, as always thanks for sharing @mtm
    You're on fire with the Indy stuff.
    It really looks like they had fun making this film. Sometimes that translates to the screen, even if there are negative reviews (like there always will be) I wouldn't be surprised if the film isn't a hit with a more general audience. After a couple of years of doom and gloom across the globe, sometimes we need a feel good adventure from a trusted, and beloved character. Indiana Jones might well be one of those people to let people just have some fun at the movies.
    I guess we'll see.
  • PDJamesBondPDJamesBond
    Posts: 669
    From what I have seen from the Indy fans posting reviews, you have to lower your expectations and understand that this movie was never going to be on par with the original trilogy. Just go in expecting a later-day Ford on one last fun adventure - another episode with our favorite explorer. I think if we do that, we'll all have a good time.
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