NO TIME TO DIE (2021) - First Reactions vs. Current Reactions

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Comments

  • monitorblownmonitorblown Providence, RI
    Posts: 7
    The dialogue in that opera scene in QoS - "Is this project worth the attention of Quantum?" - could be understood as "is this project worth the attention of South American branch?" Even back in 2008 I was in opinion that if EON gains the rights to SPECTRE Quantum could easily be explained as its subsidiary.

    I believe Quantum also discusses their Canadian plot at the opera meeting, so I always thought of them as maybe the "Extortion" branch. Less regional, and more about the SPECTRE acronym.
  • echo wrote: »
    In various drafts for Spectre, the final line was "We have all the time in the world", which was clearly some gloomy foreshadowing instead of two lovers just riding off. And, not surprisingly, one of the first lines from NTTD turns out to be "We have all the time in the world".

    And, for one time, the production company actually delivered on being named Everything or Nothing. They didn't compromise on the story they wanted to tell. They went all in, even if some people hate the end result.

    I agree. And now I understand why Craig didn't say "We have all the time in the world" at the end of SP. It would have been way too foreboding. It was to give Craig the opportunity to exit, gracefully and definitively, after SP if he wanted.

    Eon and the creative team are to be commended for this: NTTD ended on a very brave note. Unlike, say, the last Nolan Batman which tried to eat its cake and have it too.

    I know some diehard Batman fans that were upset at the ending of TDKR; Batman would more likely sacrifice himself for Gotham City, certainly not just leave it and live peacefully somewhere else, so I agree with you here. I'm glad NTTD at least made a definitive choice with it's ending.
    I've been thinking about this TDKR comment for a bit and even went and found this article - https://thefilmstage.com/why-the-ending-of-the-dark-knight-rises-fails-the-trilogy/ - from 2012 that even calls the ending "James Bond-y." Ouch.

    I originally wanted a TDKR ending with Bond popping up in Matera or something and then later found myself willing to accept any form of ambiguity once I was officially spoiled. Having seen it, I'm with you on being pleased that it was definitive. No form of ambiguity would work in what we were given as it would cheapen everything that happens in the last few minutes from the story to Zimmer's score to Craig's acting. For Bond to survive, the final act and maybe even much of the movie would arguably have to have been changed. There's something to be said about writers/producers giving the character what the story demands and what the character wants versus what the audience wants for the character. Now I'm wondering if a revisit to Nolan's trilogy would make me feel differently about TDKR's ending I previously enjoyed.

    On a different note, the juxtaposition of Bond's facial expression while watching Madeleine move away on the train the last time he sees her in the PTS with his facial expression while he watches her and Mathilde move away on the raft the last time he ever sees them is a lovely bookend touch. A lot of thought went into this movie.
  • sandbagger1sandbagger1 Sussex
    Posts: 686
    The best heroes eventually die. Hercules (or if you prefer, Heracles) died. King Arthur died.
    Those two didn't really die: Heracles died... only to be transformed into a god by his father Zeus and taken to live on as an immortal on Mount Olympus. King Arthur didn't die, he was wounded, but taken away to be healed by a group of maidens and is said to be sleeping in a hollow hill until he is needed again.

  • MinionMinion Don't Hassle the Bond
    Posts: 1,165
    The best heroes eventually die. Hercules (or if you prefer, Heracles) died. King Arthur died.
    Those two didn't really die: Heracles died... only to be transformed into a god by his father Zeus and taken to live on as an immortal on Mount Olympus. King Arthur didn't die, he was wounded, but taken away to be healed by a group of maidens and is said to be sleeping in a hollow hill until he is needed again.

    Bond died... only to be back a few years later as some other fellow. See, the same principal applies. ;)
  • 00Heaven00Heaven Home
    Posts: 573
    Given the rumour that's knocked about that they supposedly filmed three endings (no idea where that came from though) then it's a possibility there may be alternate endings on the bluray/dvd release? I remember those were a thing back when DVDs first came out. No idea if they still are and to be honest it's not something that's really appealed to me with movies.

    I highly doubt there's any substance in that rumour and maybe wishful thinking though. I think we may be lucky to see a deleted scene montage. Did they do that for QOS or was it only for CR? There was nothing that way for SF or SP was there?
  • VenutiusVenutius Yorkshire
    edited October 2021 Posts: 2,895
    BlondeBond wrote: »
    On a different note, the juxtaposition of Bond's facial expression while watching Madeleine move away on the train the last time he sees her in the PTS with his facial expression while he watches her and Mathilde move away on the raft the last time he ever sees them is a lovely bookend touch. A lot of thought went into this movie.

    True. A lot of the mirrorings in NTTD are delivered a bit more clearly than those in SP - for example, I must've watched SP half a dozen times before it dawned on me that Madeleine ends the interview when Bond mentions L'Americain, just as Bond had ended the interview when the MI6 psychologist mentioned Skyfall in SF. Couldn't believe it'd taken me that long to spot it. Does make me wonder how many I've missed in my limited (two) viewings of NTTD, though.
  • BMWTREKPSEBMWTREKPSE Colorado
    Posts: 105
    Listening to 'Final Ascent' (the final song) makes me sad all over again. So amazing!!!


  • sandbagger1sandbagger1 Sussex
    edited October 2021 Posts: 686
    00Heaven wrote: »
    Given the rumour that's knocked about that they supposedly filmed three endings (no idea where that came from though) then it's a possibility there may be alternate endings on the bluray/dvd release? I remember those were a thing back when DVDs first came out. No idea if they still are and to be honest it's not something that's really appealed to me with movies.

    As long as Tim Curry pops up in one of the alternate endings to tell us that "Communism was just a red herring", I'm all for it.
  • Posts: 490
    BMWTREKPSE wrote: »
    Listening to 'Final Ascent' (the final song) makes me sad all over again. So amazing!!!



    The beginning of the song playing while Safin tells Bond his fate is sealed and he is truly doomed is one of the most powerful scenes I've ever seen in a movie. The last 15 years converged on that moment.

    "You made me do this you see. This was your choice", and that evil smirk on Safin's face right before Bond coldly executes him hit me so freaking hard.

    Despite not really showing up until the end of the film I thought Safin was an excellent villain and a worthy adversary for this final chapter.
  • Venutius wrote: »
    BlondeBond wrote: »
    On a different note, the juxtaposition of Bond's facial expression while watching Madeleine move away on the train the last time he sees her in the PTS with his facial expression while he watches her and Mathilde move away on the raft the last time he ever sees them is a lovely bookend touch. A lot of thought went into this movie.

    True. A lot of the mirrorings in NTTD are delivered a bit more clearly than those in SP - for example, I must've watched SP half a dozen times before it dawned on me that Madeleine ends the interview when Bond mentions L'Americain, just as Bond had ended the interview when the MI6 psychologist mentioned Skyfall in SF. Couldn't believe it'd taken me that long to spot it. Does make me wonder how many I've missed in my limited (two) viewings of NTTD, though.

    Oh, nice catch! I hadn't noticed that one myself. I did think Madeleine's seemingly desolate location in Austria mirrored Bond's empty flat.

    This particular one from NTTD I didn't catch until a repeat viewing but it's really quite nice as it showcases his emotional journey in the film.
  • The best heroes eventually die. Hercules (or if you prefer, Heracles) died. King Arthur died.
    King Arthur didn't die, he was wounded, but taken away to be healed by a group of maidens and is said to be sleeping in a hollow hill until he is needed again.

    Oh, then my understanding of the word "Morte" (as in Le Morte d' Arthur) must be wrong.
  • 00Heaven00Heaven Home
    Posts: 573
    00Heaven wrote: »
    Given the rumour that's knocked about that they supposedly filmed three endings (no idea where that came from though) then it's a possibility there may be alternate endings on the bluray/dvd release? I remember those were a thing back when DVDs first came out. No idea if they still are and to be honest it's not something that's really appealed to me with movies.

    As long as Tim Curry pops up in one of the alternate endings to tell us that "Communism was just a red herring", I'm all for it.

    :))
  • Posts: 490
    I noticed on my second viewing that Safin is playing with a strand of Madeline's hair when he's first in her office. This clicked when he mentions taking a strand of her hair to make the poison at the end.

    Also noticed that Bond has newspaper clippings of Blofeld's arrest in the secret drawer at his house in Jamaica .
  • ertert wrote: »
    BMWTREKPSE wrote: »
    Listening to 'Final Ascent' (the final song) makes me sad all over again. So amazing!!!



    The beginning of the song playing while Safin tells Bond his fate is sealed and he is truly doomed is one of the most powerful scenes I've ever seen in a movie.
    The last 15 years converged on that moment.

    "You made me do this you see. This was your choice", and that evil smirk on Safin's face right before Bond coldly executes him hit me so freaking hard.

    Despite not really showing up until the end of the film I thought Safin was an excellent villain and a worthy adversary for this final chapter.

    Yes, same for me. One of the most powerful viewing experiences I've had in the cinema. I think that moment is Craig's finest acting in the entire run.
  • Posts: 490
    BlondeBond wrote: »
    ertert wrote: »
    BMWTREKPSE wrote: »
    Listening to 'Final Ascent' (the final song) makes me sad all over again. So amazing!!!



    The beginning of the song playing while Safin tells Bond his fate is sealed and he is truly doomed is one of the most powerful scenes I've ever seen in a movie.
    The last 15 years converged on that moment.

    "You made me do this you see. This was your choice", and that evil smirk on Safin's face right before Bond coldly executes him hit me so freaking hard.

    Despite not really showing up until the end of the film I thought Safin was an excellent villain and a worthy adversary for this final chapter.

    Yes, same for me. One of the most powerful viewing experiences I've had in the cinema. I think that moment is Craig's finest acting in the entire run.

    Yeah. Bond is so angry but he also cares so little about Safin he just executes him like a pest while barely looking at him. All he cares about is his family. Safin was a pathetic nuisance who was able to use Bond's family as leverage against him. Malek played that part so well.
  • HildebrandRarityHildebrandRarity Centre international d'assistance aux personnes déplacées, Paris, France
    Posts: 467
    It's amazing that, even if he didn't star in as many iconic entries as Connery (I'd say that Casino Royale and Skyfall will stay as classics, and that NTTD will be about as divisive as OHMSS, and both QoS and Spectre are very flawed, in different ways), Craig has now sealed his place as the equal to Connery in being the definitive Bond, by having a clear arc to his character that people can relate to.
  • RyanRyan Canada
    Posts: 692
    I've mentioned in other threads, but I found Safin to be a satisfying villain in a Michael Myers sort of way. We don't always see him, but his presence is consistently felt and he was played brilliantly by Malek. Cold and spooky.
  • TripAcesTripAces Universal Exports
    edited October 2021 Posts: 4,548
    BlondeBond wrote: »
    echo wrote: »
    In various drafts for Spectre, the final line was "We have all the time in the world", which was clearly some gloomy foreshadowing instead of two lovers just riding off. And, not surprisingly, one of the first lines from NTTD turns out to be "We have all the time in the world".

    And, for one time, the production company actually delivered on being named Everything or Nothing. They didn't compromise on the story they wanted to tell. They went all in, even if some people hate the end result.

    I agree. And now I understand why Craig didn't say "We have all the time in the world" at the end of SP. It would have been way too foreboding. It was to give Craig the opportunity to exit, gracefully and definitively, after SP if he wanted.

    Eon and the creative team are to be commended for this: NTTD ended on a very brave note. Unlike, say, the last Nolan Batman which tried to eat its cake and have it too.

    I know some diehard Batman fans that were upset at the ending of TDKR; Batman would more likely sacrifice himself for Gotham City, certainly not just leave it and live peacefully somewhere else, so I agree with you here. I'm glad NTTD at least made a definitive choice with it's ending.
    I've been thinking about this TDKR comment for a bit and even went and found this article - https://thefilmstage.com/why-the-ending-of-the-dark-knight-rises-fails-the-trilogy/ - from 2012 that even calls the ending "James Bond-y." Ouch.

    I originally wanted a TDKR ending with Bond popping up in Matera or something and then later found myself willing to accept any form of ambiguity once I was officially spoiled. Having seen it, I'm with you on being pleased that it was definitive. No form of ambiguity would work in what we were given as it would cheapen everything that happens in the last few minutes from the story to Zimmer's score to Craig's acting. For Bond to survive, the final act and maybe even much of the movie would arguably have to have been changed. There's something to be said about writers/producers giving the character what the story demands and what the character wants versus what the audience wants for the character. Now I'm wondering if a revisit to Nolan's trilogy would make me feel differently about TDKR's ending I previously enjoyed.

    On a different note, the juxtaposition of Bond's facial expression while watching Madeleine move away on the train the last time he sees her in the PTS with his facial expression while he watches her and Mathilde move away on the raft the last time he ever sees them is a lovely bookend touch. A lot of thought went into this movie.

    Indeed. There is so much to unpack in NTTD...

    ertert wrote: »
    BMWTREKPSE wrote: »
    Listening to 'Final Ascent' (the final song) makes me sad all over again. So amazing!!!



    The beginning of the song playing while Safin tells Bond his fate is sealed and he is truly doomed is one of the most powerful scenes I've ever seen in a movie. The last 15 years converged on that moment.

    "You made me do this you see. This was your choice", and that evil smirk on Safin's face right before Bond coldly executes him hit me so freaking hard.

    Despite not really showing up until the end of the film I thought Safin was an excellent villain and a worthy adversary for this final chapter.

    The theme of choice and free will and the consequences of our choices (or choices made for us) ran through the entire narrative arc.
  • Posts: 490
    Minion wrote: »
    Safin is a much more effective adversary than some may (mis)lead you to believe. Its bewildering to me that some posters claim he has no motivation when he spells it all out during his back and forth with Bond at the island base.

    Yeah it worked for me. I didn't need him to draw up a powerpoint presentation. I was much more invested in Malek's performance and his relationship to the other characters. I do wish he was in more scenes but I understand that the main focus of the film was supposed to be the drama between Bond and Madeline. Everything else was secondary.

    I thought he came across very well as a bitter, delusional, and damaged man. I absolutely love how Madeline's assistant said "you have a new patient...he's weird".


  • DoctorKaufmannDoctorKaufmann Can shoot you from Stuttgart and still make it look like suicide.
    Posts: 1,261
    slide_99 wrote: »
    DonnyDB5 wrote: »
    I don’t understand why people are making such a huge deal about continuity. I dragged a couple of my friends to see NTTD with me & they are definitely not hardcore Bond fans like I am. They seemed to understand the concept just fine. Craig’s Bond story has concluded. The next story will be a clean slate. None of them seemed disappointed that this is the end of James Bond altogether, because it is t. It’s the end of Daniel Craig’s James Bond. Alternative timeline.

    Like someone said above regarding Halloween. Same Michael Myers, just alternative timeline ignoring all the old sequels. Easy, easy concept, and a popular trend in cinema nowadays.

    Why does the next film have to be a clean slate to begin with? Was anyone confused when Moore took over after Connery? Dalton after Moore? Brosnan after Dalton? Has there ever been a clean slate to begin with? Brosnan had Llewellyn's Q. Even Craig had Dench's M. NTTD's ending doesn't tidy anything up, it only further confuses everything. The Bond franchise only works across multiple eras because Bond doesn't ever die onscreen.

    Well, bad news for you. Connery and Moore are permanetly unavailable, as are Bernard Lee, Desmond Llewelyn and Lois Maxwell.
  • Posts: 490
    TripAces wrote: »
    BlondeBond wrote: »
    echo wrote: »
    In various drafts for Spectre, the final line was "We have all the time in the world", which was clearly some gloomy foreshadowing instead of two lovers just riding off. And, not surprisingly, one of the first lines from NTTD turns out to be "We have all the time in the world".

    And, for one time, the production company actually delivered on being named Everything or Nothing. They didn't compromise on the story they wanted to tell. They went all in, even if some people hate the end result.

    I agree. And now I understand why Craig didn't say "We have all the time in the world" at the end of SP. It would have been way too foreboding. It was to give Craig the opportunity to exit, gracefully and definitively, after SP if he wanted.

    Eon and the creative team are to be commended for this: NTTD ended on a very brave note. Unlike, say, the last Nolan Batman which tried to eat its cake and have it too.

    I know some diehard Batman fans that were upset at the ending of TDKR; Batman would more likely sacrifice himself for Gotham City, certainly not just leave it and live peacefully somewhere else, so I agree with you here. I'm glad NTTD at least made a definitive choice with it's ending.
    I've been thinking about this TDKR comment for a bit and even went and found this article - https://thefilmstage.com/why-the-ending-of-the-dark-knight-rises-fails-the-trilogy/ - from 2012 that even calls the ending "James Bond-y." Ouch.

    I originally wanted a TDKR ending with Bond popping up in Matera or something and then later found myself willing to accept any form of ambiguity once I was officially spoiled. Having seen it, I'm with you on being pleased that it was definitive. No form of ambiguity would work in what we were given as it would cheapen everything that happens in the last few minutes from the story to Zimmer's score to Craig's acting. For Bond to survive, the final act and maybe even much of the movie would arguably have to have been changed. There's something to be said about writers/producers giving the character what the story demands and what the character wants versus what the audience wants for the character. Now I'm wondering if a revisit to Nolan's trilogy would make me feel differently about TDKR's ending I previously enjoyed.

    On a different note, the juxtaposition of Bond's facial expression while watching Madeleine move away on the train the last time he sees her in the PTS with his facial expression while he watches her and Mathilde move away on the raft the last time he ever sees them is a lovely bookend touch. A lot of thought went into this movie.

    Indeed. There is so much to unpack in NTTD...

    ertert wrote: »
    BMWTREKPSE wrote: »
    Listening to 'Final Ascent' (the final song) makes me sad all over again. So amazing!!!



    The beginning of the song playing while Safin tells Bond his fate is sealed and he is truly doomed is one of the most powerful scenes I've ever seen in a movie. The last 15 years converged on that moment.

    "You made me do this you see. This was your choice", and that evil smirk on Safin's face right before Bond coldly executes him hit me so freaking hard.

    Despite not really showing up until the end of the film I thought Safin was an excellent villain and a worthy adversary for this final chapter.

    The theme of choice and free will and the consequences of our choices (or choices made for us) ran through the entire narrative arc.

    I really got this vibe with Safin. Mr. White killed his family and he felt it took away all his options in life and set him on the course to terrorize White's daughter. He had no other choice.

    The notion of unintended consequences is one of the bigger themes of the era.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited October 2021 Posts: 14,861
    BlondeBond wrote: »
    echo wrote: »
    In various drafts for Spectre, the final line was "We have all the time in the world", which was clearly some gloomy foreshadowing instead of two lovers just riding off. And, not surprisingly, one of the first lines from NTTD turns out to be "We have all the time in the world".

    And, for one time, the production company actually delivered on being named Everything or Nothing. They didn't compromise on the story they wanted to tell. They went all in, even if some people hate the end result.

    I agree. And now I understand why Craig didn't say "We have all the time in the world" at the end of SP. It would have been way too foreboding. It was to give Craig the opportunity to exit, gracefully and definitively, after SP if he wanted.

    Eon and the creative team are to be commended for this: NTTD ended on a very brave note. Unlike, say, the last Nolan Batman which tried to eat its cake and have it too.

    I know some diehard Batman fans that were upset at the ending of TDKR; Batman would more likely sacrifice himself for Gotham City, certainly not just leave it and live peacefully somewhere else, so I agree with you here. I'm glad NTTD at least made a definitive choice with it's ending.
    I've been thinking about this TDKR comment for a bit and even went and found this article - https://thefilmstage.com/why-the-ending-of-the-dark-knight-rises-fails-the-trilogy/ - from 2012 that even calls the ending "James Bond-y." Ouch.

    I originally wanted a TDKR ending with Bond popping up in Matera or something and then later found myself willing to accept any form of ambiguity once I was officially spoiled. Having seen it, I'm with you on being pleased that it was definitive. No form of ambiguity would work in what we were given as it would cheapen everything that happens in the last few minutes from the story to Zimmer's score to Craig's acting. For Bond to survive, the final act and maybe even much of the movie would arguably have to have been changed. There's something to be said about writers/producers giving the character what the story demands and what the character wants versus what the audience wants for the character. Now I'm wondering if a revisit to Nolan's trilogy would make me feel differently about TDKR's ending I previously enjoyed.

    Funnily enough I'm almost thinking that a happy ending like you mention might've made it similarly difficult, possibly even more difficult, to do Bond 26. We know that Bond has a happy ending so there's no jeopardy? :)
    With the added problem that people will be asking if Craig is coming back for the next one, maybe he can team up with this new Bond etc. etc.
    The best heroes eventually die. Hercules (or if you prefer, Heracles) died. King Arthur died.
    Those two didn't really die: Heracles died... only to be transformed into a god by his father Zeus and taken to live on as an immortal on Mount Olympus. King Arthur didn't die, he was wounded, but taken away to be healed by a group of maidens and is said to be sleeping in a hollow hill until he is needed again.

    Robin Hood did though: I remember him dying when he looked just like James Bond :)

    MV5BOWY3MTNjMjgtOTAwOC00ODc2LTk1YzMtOGRmMWM4MTdmNGU5XkEyXkFqcGdeQXVyNjUwNzk3NDc@._V1_.jpg
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 14,861
    It's amazing that, even if he didn't star in as many iconic entries as Connery (I'd say that Casino Royale and Skyfall will stay as classics, and that NTTD will be about as divisive as OHMSS, and both QoS and Spectre are very flawed, in different ways), Craig has now sealed his place as the equal to Connery in being the definitive Bond, by having a clear arc to his character that people can relate to.

    Yep, I think you're spot-on there.
  • edited October 2021 Posts: 1,314
    If everyone knows reboots are so common then it does raise the question, “what’s the point of killing him”. So we can carry on in 4 years like it didn’t happen? Better that it didn’t happen in the first place.

    I just don’t understand how something being emotionally sad and people saying “I cried” ad Naseum equates to something being any good.
  • The best heroes eventually die. Hercules (or if you prefer, Heracles) died. King Arthur died.
    Those two didn't really die: Heracles died... only to be transformed into a god by his father Zeus and taken to live on as an immortal on Mount Olympus. King Arthur didn't die, he was wounded, but taken away to be healed by a group of maidens and is said to be sleeping in a hollow hill until he is needed again.

    Robin Hood did though: I remember him dying when he looked just like James Bond :)

    MV5BOWY3MTNjMjgtOTAwOC00ODc2LTk1YzMtOGRmMWM4MTdmNGU5XkEyXkFqcGdeQXVyNjUwNzk3NDc@._V1_.jpg[/quote]

    :) Indeed.

    Robin Hood at least had a pretty cool death scene. Heracles' death is really pretty yucky, wearing a blood-drenched cloak & all. They've ruined him for me, I'm never going to watch a Heracles movie ever again so there.
  • SeveSeve The island of Lemoy
    edited October 2021 Posts: 357
    Except the movie also established that White helped build SPECTRE with Blofeld for 20 years.

    I recall Purvis & Wade went onto say they that they regarded Quantum as a branch that focused on operations in South America run by Dominic Greene. When Mr. White was sent to kill Dominic Greene out in the desert, Quantum was effectively shut down.

    IMO, anything to deemphasize Quantum is a plus for me, because I absolutely loathe their name (which is only mentioned twice in passing in QOS, interestingly). They should have just left the organization unnamed in QOS so that the revelation of the name SPECTRE would have at least been a smoother transition.

    But then the audience would have been left wondering what the significance of the title of the movie was

    Even so, at the time, a number of casual Bond viewers I know asked me what it meant, and that was after seeing the movie
    The dialogue in that opera scene in QoS - "Is this project worth the attention of Quantum?" - could be understood as "is this project worth the attention of South American branch?" Even back in 2008 I was in opinion that if EON gains the rights to SPECTRE Quantum could easily be explained as its subsidiary.

    I believe Quantum also discusses their Canadian plot at the opera meeting, so I always thought of them as maybe the "Extortion" branch. Less regional, and more about the SPECTRE acronym.

    I believe you are over thinking it.

    Clearly, when QoS was being made Quantum was intended to be the Craig era equivalent of Spectre, but that film didn't go over so well and the evil organisation itself in particular took the blame. The villain's were criticised for being too "grey", the evil scheme to corner the market in water was not dramatic enough for a Bond movie etc

    So they were dropped entirely for the next film, while the Bond creative team considered their options

    Then they came up with the idea of reimagining Quantum as a subsidiary of Spectre after the fact (just as they retrospectively linked Silva to Spectre) in order to give the impression they they knew what they were doing all along and it had always been part of the infallible Craig-Bond masterplan story arc.

    But we all know better than that. By all means, respect the way they adapted to changing circumstances and came up with a neat solution if you will, and but there is no need rewrite the history behind it.
  • 9IW9IW
    Posts: 59
    Seve wrote: »
    Except the movie also established that White helped build SPECTRE with Blofeld for 20 years.

    I recall Purvis & Wade went onto say they that they regarded Quantum as a branch that focused on operations in South America run by Dominic Greene. When Mr. White was sent to kill Dominic Greene out in the desert, Quantum was effectively shut down.

    IMO, anything to deemphasize Quantum is a plus for me, because I absolutely loathe their name (which is only mentioned twice in passing in QOS, interestingly). They should have just left the organization unnamed in QOS so that the revelation of the name SPECTRE would have at least been a smoother transition.

    But then the audience would have been left wondering what the significance of the title of the movie was

    Even so, at the time, a number of casual Bond viewers I know asked me what it meant, and that was after seeing the movie
    The dialogue in that opera scene in QoS - "Is this project worth the attention of Quantum?" - could be understood as "is this project worth the attention of South American branch?" Even back in 2008 I was in opinion that if EON gains the rights to SPECTRE Quantum could easily be explained as its subsidiary.

    I believe Quantum also discusses their Canadian plot at the opera meeting, so I always thought of them as maybe the "Extortion" branch. Less regional, and more about the SPECTRE acronym.

    I believe you are over thinking it.

    Clearly, when QoS was being made Quantum was intended to be the Craig era equivalent of Spectre, but that film didn't go over so well and the evil organisation itself in particular took the blame. The villain's were criticised for being too "grey", the evil scheme to corner the market in water was not dramatic enough for a Bond movie etc

    So they were dropped entirely for the next film, while the Bond creative team considered their options

    Then they came up with the idea of reimagining Quantum as a subsidiary of Spectre after the fact (just as they retrospectively linked Silva to Spectre) in order to give the impression they they knew what they were doing all along and it had always been part of the infallible Craig-Bond masterplan story arc.

    But we all know better than that. By all means, respect the way they adapted to changing circumstances and came up with a neat solution if you will, and but there is no need rewrite the history behind it.
    Writing yourself into a corner is easy. Writing your way out not so much and the tendency is to do too much rather than just enough.
  • Posts: 526
    Except the movie also established that White helped build SPECTRE with Blofeld for 20 years.

    I recall Purvis & Wade went onto say they that they regarded Quantum as a branch that focused on operations in South America run by Dominic Greene. When Mr. White was sent to kill Dominic Greene out in the desert, Quantum was effectively shut down.

    IMO, anything to deemphasize Quantum is a plus for me, because I absolutely loathe their name (which is only mentioned twice in passing in QOS, interestingly). They should have just left the organization unnamed in QOS so that the revelation of the name SPECTRE would have at least been a smoother transition.

    I didn’t know that White killed Greene. Is there a QOS deleted scene that shows this?
  • 9IW9IW
    Posts: 59
    Birdleson wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    It's amazing that, even if he didn't star in as many iconic entries as Connery (I'd say that Casino Royale and Skyfall will stay as classics, and that NTTD will be about as divisive as OHMSS, and both QoS and Spectre are very flawed, in different ways), Craig has now sealed his place as the equal to Connery in being the definitive Bond, by having a clear arc to his character that people can relate to.

    Yep, I think you're spot-on there.

    Don't you think we need to wait 20 to 30 years to make that call?

    Agree. Awful early for the finality of “sealed” and “definitive.” And Craig is my personal favorite Bond.
  • Posts: 14,799
    echo wrote: »
    Why did they have to kill Dou Dou?!? I'm never going to see a Bond film EVER AGAIN!

    I feel the same about it. It's just wrong!
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