NO TIME TO DIE (2021) - First Reactions vs. Current Reactions

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  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,102
    bondywondy wrote: »
    Sure, it's just a film

    Exactly.
  • Posts: 6,690
    Oh my, I've just caught SP on the telly...

    ...the L'Américain scene...up until the train bit...and the Rolls...

    Oh my, ... I think I prefer it to anything in NTTD.

    And I didn't like SP much. But I think that was down to the music and most of the cinematography. The brother gate just doesn't bother me as before. I wonder why?...
  • ProfJoeButcherProfJoeButcher Bless your heart
    Posts: 1,705

    Where was the loaded Fleming material in NTTD, other than a garden with some poisonous plants?

    Well, it would be fruitless to point it out you haven't noticed anything else. But only a couple pages ago someone complained about the Jack London quote that was used in the film and in Ian Fleming's You Only Live Twice, because they felt they had a better idea that would be more in line with Ian Fleming's Bond, because they didn't know very much about Ian Fleming or his work.

    That's simply not an accurate assessment of people's grievances with the film. It's a total straw man argument. I am not as against the film as many on here, but not one person has made that claim. For one thing, grimacing and punching people in the neck is the thing Craig's Bond does more than anything else.

    I meant that in a general way. Many fans tend to think Fleming is really dark and gritty and superserious. It is not. They think Bond in CR06 is Fleming's Bond. They don't recognize Fleming when they see references.

    Not a Bond fan, then?

    Oh man, you nailed it. :))

    But seriously, there are loads of people around here who think only two good Bond films have come out in the last 30 years. People who love plots about hypnotized babes with chicken allergies complaining about silly elements in the new films. People who are clearly unfamiliar with Fleming who would certainly hate his ideas if they thought they came from Purvis and Wade. These people are indeed fans, but as a guy who thinks Michael and Barbara have done a great job, and who loves Spectre and Die Another Day, their moaning does not put me off a film.

    I--honestly--sympathize with them of course. I wouldn't be a happy camper if I hated 60% of the movies released since Dalton left. I do get the frustration.

  • Interesting critic consensus on Rotten Tomatoes.

    "It isn't the sleekest or most daring 007 adventure, but No Time to Die concludes Daniel Craig's franchise tenure in satisfying style"

    Not the most daring? Holly crap you wonder if they've actually seen it, You mean apart from killing Bond, Leiter, Blofeld & he's got a kid. Whisky-Tango-Foxtrot
  • BelinusBelinus Scotland
    Posts: 48
    First post here and I’ll make it short but have to get it off my chest… the first Bond film I saw in the cinema was Moonraker. I’ve been a massive fan ever since. I have loved the Daniel Craig films and the Bond that he’s portrayed but having now seen No Time To Die I feel betrayed. I loved the pre titles scene and enjoyed the first two hours. I like the Madeleine character and was happy that in DC’s last film that Bond had a child however the last part of the film killed any love for that film I could ever have. To me, it was an ego trip for Daniel Craig and it has not only killed this version of Bond but soured a lot of the love I have for the whole franchise. I am totally devastated at the ending, I maybe naively never saw it coming but for Bond to not only die but to do so by simply giving up is unforgivable. I may change my mind over time but for the moment I am not sure I could even watch another Bond film again. I get that’s over dramatic but it’s how I feel. Rant over :)
  • edited October 2021 Posts: 12
    Does anyone else feel like it was good that Ana de Armas had a small role because she had such strong screen presence to the point Bond/Daniel Craig was lucky she didn't get to take all attention away ?

    For a more 'fun' and less personal Bond movie it would have been great to have her as the main bond girl though.
  • DenbighDenbigh UK
    edited October 2021 Posts: 5,885
    To be honest, and this is in no detriment to the film or the ending, I was more emotionally impacted by Vesper’s death than anything this film had done. Although I was 10 at the time…

    The part that nearly got me was when Bond was telling Q: “Its alright. It’s alright.”
  • imranbecksimranbecks Singapore
    Posts: 972
    patb wrote: »
    Yes, again, very clumky writing
    "how do we get her to escape and find her mum?"
    " I know, she bites him on the hand and he let's her go"
    "Brilliant"
    Considering his special connection with Mads, it just made zero sense. the kid was, at the very least, a huge bargaining chip. It tends to undermine any threat and menace with the character. Imagine trying to escape from Darth Vader or Thanos using that method. (or Dr No !!)

    Lol I totally forgot about that part. That was pretty dumb when he just let her wander off on her own. Why even take her in the first place I wondered hahaha
  • edited October 2021 Posts: 2,400
    Denbigh wrote: »
    While I personally enjoyed it, I can understand your hesitancies with a child in a James Bond movie. I myself am not usually a fan of children in most films, unless the story is actually about them. When I was hearing the rumours about the inclusion of Mathilde, I was definitely worried - but I think it surprisingly worked for me.

    The one aspect I didn't like was when she bit Safin, which was fine, but I was slightly confused by him being like "Ok, just go." I was left a bit perplexed by that.

    I was too in the moment, thought it seemed a touch silly, but as the ending progressed I actually came to think it was him scheming to bring Bond down in the end. He has to spend time rescuing his daughter, sending her and Madeleine to safety, and THEN open the blast doors. All the meanwhile, Safin can either complete the handoff of the weapons, or he can have his confrontation with Bond and force him into an impossible situation. No matter what happens, Safin either completes his plan or has a decent chance to ruin Bond.
  • Posts: 1,314
    Ok now I’ve processed it a little more I think I need to see it again. Going this week. I know what’s coming at the end so it will be less of a shock and I might be able to enjoy the final act a little more.

    Just wish bond had escaped holding a weather balloon 😕. Also think safin could have died in a more ironic way. Maybe dying via his own weapon….
  • Posts: 4,602
    Its wonderful that, in the era of CGI, huge stunts etc etc, you still cant beat pure star quality. It's impossible to really describe, she really does have the "X factor" The lightness she brought instantly took be back to TSWLM vibe. You cant help but wonder the potential with her as the main Bond girl.
  • Posts: 3,293

    Where was the loaded Fleming material in NTTD, other than a garden with some poisonous plants?

    Well, it would be fruitless to point it out you haven't noticed anything else.
    Sorry, you still have given no explanation of loaded Fleming material in NTTD. To me, loaded Fleming material accurately done, even if not taken directly as an adaptation from the novel, would be something like LTK. That film has a few adapted scenes, and feels very Fleming throughout.

    Had NTTD given us not just the garden of death, but then Bond escaping the island with amnesia, not knowing anymore who he is, or that he has a child, and sailing off to Russia because it sounds familiar to him - then yes. I would call NTTD having some Fleming material.

    And oh boy would that ending have been more satisfying than the one they gave us instead. It would still be a tragic ending, but they wouldn't be going for a cheap shock tactic to keep the Marvel fans happy.
  • DCisaredDCisared Liverpool
    Posts: 1,329
    I didn't even clock that she bit him during my first viewing (not sure how I missed it) :))
  • sandbagger1sandbagger1 Sussex
    Posts: 833
    Stark wrote: »
    I have a question for those who have seen it. Like Spectre, does the film have a much less interesting second part than the first ? Is the climax really impressive or disappointing ?
    I think there is no good answer to this one - the second half of the film is either where the film really picks up, or where the film starts to lose you, depending on how successfully it pushes your emotional buttons. I'm in the camp that feels the film goes downhill the closer to the end it gets, but unlike Spectre I was never bored by it.
  • Posts: 3,333
    Well, it would be fruitless to point it out you haven't noticed anything else. But only a couple pages ago someone complained about the Jack London quote that was used in the film and in Ian Fleming's You Only Live Twice, because they felt they had a better idea that would be more in line with Ian Fleming's Bond, because they didn't know very much about Ian Fleming or his work.
    There's no need to be a jerk @ProfJoeButcher. You're hardly endearing yourself to the community. I told you I'd read YOLT a long time ago, probably before you were even born. It's easy to forget a Jack London reference.
  • Posts: 2,400
    Denbigh wrote: »
    While I personally enjoyed it, I can understand your hesitancies with a child in a James Bond movie. I myself am not usually a fan of children in most films, unless the story is actually about them. When I was hearing the rumours about the inclusion of Mathilde, I was definitely worried - but I think it surprisingly worked for me.

    The one aspect I didn't like was when she bit Safin, which was fine, but I was slightly confused by him being like "Ok, just go." I was left a bit perplexed by that.

    I was too in the moment, thought it seemed a touch silly, but as the ending progressed I actually came to think it was him scheming to bring Bond down in the end. He has to spend time rescuing his daughter, sending her and Madeleine to safety, and THEN open the blast doors. All the meanwhile, Safin can either complete the handoff of the weapons, or he can have his confrontation with Bond and force him into an impossible situation. No matter what happens, Safin either completes his plan or has a decent chance to ruin Bond.

    Actually just to add to this, this is one of the between-the-lines details that made me REALLY enjoy Safin, and why I think his reputation as a Bond villain will improve with time.
  • DenbighDenbigh UK
    edited October 2021 Posts: 5,885
    Yeah, I can see that reasoning @StirredNotShaken, and despite the feeling that he needed to be developed more, I really enjoyed Safin. That final confrontation in the water I really enjoyed. Even if I would’ve loved a longer fight between them, I understand why it had to be as short as it was. I also found his death really satisfying, considering it was just him being shot. Just the way it was filmed and framed was really satisfying.
  • Posts: 2,400
    Denbigh wrote: »
    Yeah, despite the feeling that he needed to be developed more, I really enjoyed Safin. That final confrontation in the water I really enjoyed. Even if I would’ve loved a longer fight between them, I understand why it had to be as short as it was. I also found his death really satisfying, considering it was just being shot. Just the way it was shot and framed was really satisfying.

    It was a nice bookend to killing Dryden's contact in the bathroom (and killing Dryden himself, for that matter).
  • Posts: 1,314
    Maybe this films reaction is like Empire strikes back back in 1980. Depressing after the first Star Wars.
  • imranbecksimranbecks Singapore
    Posts: 972
    Belinus wrote: »
    First post here and I’ll make it short but have to get it off my chest… the first Bond film I saw in the cinema was Moonraker. I’ve been a massive fan ever since. I have loved the Daniel Craig films and the Bond that he’s portrayed but having now seen No Time To Die I feel betrayed. I loved the pre titles scene and enjoyed the first two hours. I like the Madeleine character and was happy that in DC’s last film that Bond had a child however the last part of the film killed any love for that film I could ever have. To me, it was an ego trip for Daniel Craig and it has not only killed this version of Bond but soured a lot of the love I have for the whole franchise. I am totally devastated at the ending, I maybe naively never saw it coming but for Bond to not only die but to do so by simply giving up is unforgivable. I may change my mind over time but for the moment I am not sure I could even watch another Bond film again. I get that’s over dramatic but it’s how I feel. Rant over :)

    Exactly how I feel. Devastated. I loved the Daniel Craig era. But to kill his Bond off like that in his final film is like a betrayal to the fans, old and new, who supported the franchise during Craig's tenure as Bond. Right now I'm still contemplating to even watch it again. Maybe I'll leave before the explosion takes him out. Urggh that scene is just too painful to relive again.
  • DenbighDenbigh UK
    Posts: 5,885
    Denbigh wrote: »
    Yeah, despite the feeling that he needed to be developed more, I really enjoyed Safin. That final confrontation in the water I really enjoyed. Even if I would’ve loved a longer fight between them, I understand why it had to be as short as it was. I also found his death really satisfying, considering it was just being shot. Just the way it was shot and framed was really satisfying.

    It was a nice bookend to killing Dryden's contact in the bathroom (and killing Dryden himself, for that matter).
    Oh I didn’t even think of that but yeah I see that. I specifically really enjoyed how Bond didn’t even look at him and held the gun slightly off, and then when he shot quite a few times, we cut to that blocked shot of Safin’s body slamming down behind the ground into the water. So satisfying.
  • Posts: 526
    And there’s the rub. Who can now watch CR ending and not think. Gee Mister Whites Daughter is in Bonds future and leads to his Death….

    That’s what worries me. If I see the film, how is it going to affect my enjoyment of the other 4 Craig films? It already has, really.
  • Posts: 3,293
    octofinger wrote: »
    JohnBarry wrote: »
    Did anyone else find the moment where Bond says 'Die Blofeld Die' really odd. I know they needed Bond to touch Blofeld in order to infect him, but it seemed very very forced and undid a lot of the great tension leading up to that moment.

    Well, it's another Fleming homage. These films have been full of them. I was shocked and delighted to see that one!

    Use more Fleming!
    Use less Fleming!
    Use Fleming differently!

    You forgot one more -

    Use Fleming correctly (Dr. No, FRWL, GF, TB, OHMSS, CR).

    No, that's "use Fleming differently". You're covered.

    You like when Vesper was used in CR06 and Bond reacted to her death nearly directly opposite to the way he did in the book, but maybe not when Bond strangles Blofeld in NTTD and says "Die, Blofeld die" like in the YOLT novel. Who cares?

    Thanks for covering me.

    I never said I didn't like the NTTD Blofeld bit...?

    I dont know, it wasn't included on your arbitrary list of correctly used Fleming. Incidentally, you know who didn't think Fleming was used well in Dr No? Ian Fleming.

    Just shows that Fleming should have been left to write books, and leave the filmmakers to make films. He wasn't impressed with Connery either when he was first chosen, so I don't take everything Fleming ever said as gospel.
  • DCisaredDCisared Liverpool
    Posts: 1,329
    imranbecks wrote: »
    Belinus wrote: »
    First post here and I’ll make it short but have to get it off my chest… the first Bond film I saw in the cinema was Moonraker. I’ve been a massive fan ever since. I have loved the Daniel Craig films and the Bond that he’s portrayed but having now seen No Time To Die I feel betrayed. I loved the pre titles scene and enjoyed the first two hours. I like the Madeleine character and was happy that in DC’s last film that Bond had a child however the last part of the film killed any love for that film I could ever have. To me, it was an ego trip for Daniel Craig and it has not only killed this version of Bond but soured a lot of the love I have for the whole franchise. I am totally devastated at the ending, I maybe naively never saw it coming but for Bond to not only die but to do so by simply giving up is unforgivable. I may change my mind over time but for the moment I am not sure I could even watch another Bond film again. I get that’s over dramatic but it’s how I feel. Rant over :)

    Exactly how I feel. Devastated. I loved the Daniel Craig era. But to kill his Bond off like that in his final film is like a betrayal to the fans, old and new, who supported the franchise during Craig's tenure as Bond. Right now I'm still contemplating to even watch it again. Maybe I'll leave before the explosion takes him out. Urggh that scene is just too painful to relive again.

    I would urge anyone to take in more viewings. I felt like you right up until seeing it for the second time but Im really coming round to thinking it's a poetic finale to Craig's Bond. As dark as everything he, Madeline and Mathilde have been through, I think it's true to this interpretation of Bond. Even if it's not the path I would have chosen.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,102
    Univex wrote: »
    Oh my, I've just caught SP on the telly...

    ...the L'Américain scene...up until the train bit...and the Rolls...

    Oh my, ... I think I prefer it to anything in NTTD.

    And I didn't like SP much. But I think that was down to the music and most of the cinematography. The brother gate just doesn't bother me as before. I wonder why?...

    So NTTD did redeem SP after all ;)
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    Posts: 12,459
    LizW wrote: »
    I was listening to this podcast this morning - very entertaining. It went out earlier in the week before the film's release so there are no spoilers. It gave me a sense of just how much Bond has changed over the years, including accusations of sexism, snobbery and sadism...in a review of one of the novels from 1958. And I didn't realise he had, in canon, a kid already (by Kissy Suzuki). I'm sure more hardcore fans know this.

    https://play.acast.com/s/the-rest-is-history-podcast/101.jamesbond

    Thanks for this. B-)
  • BelinusBelinus Scotland
    Posts: 48


    Exactly how I feel. Devastated. I loved the Daniel Craig era. But to kill his Bond off like that in his final film is like a betrayal to the fans, old and new, who supported the franchise during Craig's tenure as Bond. Right now I'm still contemplating to even watch it again. Maybe I'll leave before the explosion takes him out. Urggh that scene is just too painful to relive again. [/quote]

    I would urge anyone to take in more viewings. I felt like you right up until seeing it for the second time but Im really coming round to thinking it's a poetic finale to Craig's Bond. As dark as everything he, Madeline and Mathilde have been through, I think it's true to this interpretation of Bond. Even if it's not the path I would have chosen.[/quote]

    I’m not sure I could go through it again. I did love the first two hours but knowing what happens and in particular Bond seemingly just giving up makes it very difficult to consider watching again.

    On a separate note I wonder how this will impact future sales. I have every Bond on VHS and DVD. I can’t see me buying this. On a personal note I was hoping to purchase the Bond Omega Seamaster from this film but I really don’t want to wear the watch that Bond died wearing
  • ProfJoeButcherProfJoeButcher Bless your heart
    edited October 2021 Posts: 1,705
    bondsum wrote: »
    Well, it would be fruitless to point it out you haven't noticed anything else. But only a couple pages ago someone complained about the Jack London quote that was used in the film and in Ian Fleming's You Only Live Twice, because they felt they had a better idea that would be more in line with Ian Fleming's Bond, because they didn't know very much about Ian Fleming or his work.
    There's no need to be a jerk @ProfJoeButcher. You're hardly endearing yourself to the community. I told you I'd read YOLT a long time ago, probably before you were even born. It's easy to forget a Jack London reference.

    Sorry to have sounded salty. But I mean, imagine you're writing these movies, the fans want Fleming, you put in Fleming, the fans don't recognize it and suggest you should have put some Fleming in instead. You'd start banging your head against the wall. It was just about fan demands and whether they know what they want.

  • Posts: 6,690
    Univex wrote: »
    Oh my, I've just caught SP on the telly...

    ...the L'Américain scene...up until the train bit...and the Rolls...

    Oh my, ... I think I prefer it to anything in NTTD.

    And I didn't like SP much. But I think that was down to the music and most of the cinematography. The brother gate just doesn't bother me as before. I wonder why?...

    So NTTD did redeem SP after all ;)

    In a way. Just not the way I was expecting ;)
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    edited October 2021 Posts: 12,459
    I see it again in a few hours. Really looking forward to it. This is, for me, a splendid Bond film and a fitting finale for Daniel's Bond. His is the modern, realistic Bond and his films have their own story arc - which I came to appreciate by Skyfall; I have zero problems with that. This film had an ending I did not think possible to pull off; I was against it. But NTTD got it right, so very well done. Because it is Craig's Bond I find it very fitting. I wanted his Bond story to be completed in a satisfying way, touching on his past films. I'm thrilled the acting, directing, sound, editing are all top notch. The music is fine and serves the film well.

    So yes, I do feel this is a great Bond film and I'm very happy, as one of the oldest fans here, that we have all of Daniel Craig's movies as part of the canon now. What an excellent film to end his era. So glad he did not end it with Spectre.

    I am also not concerned about the next Bond film. They will start fresh, different direction, and I'm confident the series will continue. It is interesting reading so many reactions - hardly anybody bored by it or on the fence, so to speak. I'm firmly positive about this film. It is in my top 5 of all time for now, will probably stay in the top 10 for sure. And I'm happy with the box office stats at the moment. I hope it does great worldwide. Cheers! B-)
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