NO TIME TO DIE (2021) - Discuss Hans Zimmer's Score

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  • I agree. Save for the literal Barry moments, I would say it feels closer to Newman than anything.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,000
    Listening to it, yeah, I'm not really getting the David Arnold comparisons. Like Newman, Zimmer is a very rhythmic composer. I wouldn't say he's following Newman's example, because Newman was already following Zimmer's approach so the flow from SF-SP-NTTD is already consistent there. If Zimmer is following ANY approach, it's John Barry, especially when utilizing his cues.

    I can't imagine Arnold ever actually approaching a Bond score like this. It makes me so thankful we got Zimmer even if this turns out to just be a one-shot guest role.
  • Posts: 3,333
    It's all down to how we hear and interpret musical intonations. Like many, I hear more of bombastic Arnold than I do the ambient Newman in this score. There's certainly more heavy electronic motifs that are more akin to “Ice Bandits” and “Caviar Factory” than say Newman's subdued, tinkly piano chords of "Day Wasted" or "Someone Usually Dies."

    Regardless, if you distinguish more Newman (or even Zimmer himself) in this score, you must be equally as happy as those that hear Arnold. For once it's a score that pleases both camps.
  • Just had a quick browse through each clip. Yes, I'm really liking what I have heard so far. Obviously loving the OHMSS references too. Nods to Barry throughout, but still sounds very Zimmer/Nolan.

    If the film is as good as the soundtrack, we are in for a classic!

    And one more thing - Poison Garden? Surely not Shatterhand's garden of death? :-O

    In an interview, Barbara Broccoli said that fans of the novels will get a treat or two. I think that’s exactly what she was referring to. In fact, you can see it in the second trailer at a quick glance.

    That's what I thought it was in the trailer.

    Ohhh dear! Now I AM getting very excited to see this. \:D/
  • Posts: 3,333
    Just had a quick browse through each clip. Yes, I'm really liking what I have heard so far. Obviously loving the OHMSS references too. Nods to Barry throughout, but still sounds very Zimmer/Nolan.

    If the film is as good as the soundtrack, we are in for a classic!

    And one more thing - Poison Garden? Surely not Shatterhand's garden of death? :-O

    In an interview, Barbara Broccoli said that fans of the novels will get a treat or two. I think that’s exactly what she was referring to. In fact, you can see it in the second trailer at a quick glance.

    That's what I thought it was in the trailer.

    Ohhh dear! Now I AM getting very excited to see this. \:D/
    That was my immediate thought when I saw "Poison Garden" as one of the title tracks. That probably explains why the movie was originally titled Shatterhand. Looks like they've finally found a way to introduce the missing YOLT book's garden of death!
  • matt_umatt_u better known as Mr. Roark
    Posts: 4,343
    This score just sounds Hans Zimmer to me. Hans Zimmer doing Bond with John Barry in mind.
  • edited September 2021 Posts: 3,273
    bondsum wrote: »
    Just had a quick browse through each clip. Yes, I'm really liking what I have heard so far. Obviously loving the OHMSS references too. Nods to Barry throughout, but still sounds very Zimmer/Nolan.

    If the film is as good as the soundtrack, we are in for a classic!

    And one more thing - Poison Garden? Surely not Shatterhand's garden of death? :-O

    In an interview, Barbara Broccoli said that fans of the novels will get a treat or two. I think that’s exactly what she was referring to. In fact, you can see it in the second trailer at a quick glance.

    That's what I thought it was in the trailer.

    Ohhh dear! Now I AM getting very excited to see this. \:D/
    That was my immediate thought when I saw "Poison Garden" as one of the title tracks. That probably explains why the movie was originally titled Shatterhand. Looks like they've finally found a way to introduce the missing YOLT book's garden of death!

    And I am wondering now whether the film will end like the book - amnesia ridden Bond sailing off somewhere, not knowing who he is. This would wrap up the Craig era nicely, CR as its birth, YOLT as its death, and kick start the new actor with the next film, and the opening to TMWTGG.

  • Posts: 12,243
    bondsum wrote: »
    Just had a quick browse through each clip. Yes, I'm really liking what I have heard so far. Obviously loving the OHMSS references too. Nods to Barry throughout, but still sounds very Zimmer/Nolan.

    If the film is as good as the soundtrack, we are in for a classic!

    And one more thing - Poison Garden? Surely not Shatterhand's garden of death? :-O

    In an interview, Barbara Broccoli said that fans of the novels will get a treat or two. I think that’s exactly what she was referring to. In fact, you can see it in the second trailer at a quick glance.

    That's what I thought it was in the trailer.

    Ohhh dear! Now I AM getting very excited to see this. \:D/
    That was my immediate thought when I saw "Poison Garden" as one of the title tracks. That probably explains why the movie was originally titled Shatterhand. Looks like they've finally found a way to introduce the missing YOLT book's garden of death!

    And I am wondering now whether the film will end like the book - amnesia ridden Bond sailing off somewhere, not knowing who he is. This would wrap up the Craig era nicely, CR as its birth, YOLT as its death, and kick start the new actor with the next film, and the opening to TMWTGG.

    I agree with most of this, but not sure if I'd want the next actor to pick up Craig's continuity at all. I think it should remain in its own separate plane, and a Connery-Brosnan style just having Bond doing his thing would be cool. I have to admit though, seeing Bond try to kill M at the start at B26 would be a pretty cool cinematic moment if pulled off right. I'm just right now hoping they don't do what concerns me most potentially and definitively kill Bond.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited September 2021 Posts: 14,861
    It's okay, a bit dull; I'm not sure I'll listen to it again. The bits where you can really hear Zimmer are probably the best (he starts to sound like himself in Track 3 I'd say), and I'm not even a massive Zimmer fan. I like his sort of chugging version of the bridge bit of the Bond theme: that works well for Craig's Bond (there's a bit towards the end where he alternates that with sudden, short strikes of cello which sounds much like his Sherlock Holmes score climax) . "I'll Be Right Back" was the only one that got melodically interesting for me. Curiously Cuba Chase actually sounds much like a reworked version of Newman's Rome chase music.
    It's not exactly packed full of Bond theme either- I'd say Spectre had more. I always worry about that: I think a casual buyer picking up a Bond soundtrack probably wants the Bond theme on there.

    I'm sure it'll work really well in the film, but on first listen it's fairly generic stuff and I'll take Newman's more atmospheric, original take on the Bond sound over this. Still, nice to have Zimmer's take and, as I say, it'll work well in the film I'm sure.
  • Posts: 12,243
    Giving it a second listen now, more than halfway through. Still loving almost all of it. Hard to rank it right away among Craig's Bond film soundtracks, but it's potentially my very favorite, depending on just how well it works in the movie. SP is the only one that disappointed for copying too much of SF, I enjoy all the others quite a lot.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,000
    bondsum wrote: »
    Just had a quick browse through each clip. Yes, I'm really liking what I have heard so far. Obviously loving the OHMSS references too. Nods to Barry throughout, but still sounds very Zimmer/Nolan.

    If the film is as good as the soundtrack, we are in for a classic!

    And one more thing - Poison Garden? Surely not Shatterhand's garden of death? :-O

    In an interview, Barbara Broccoli said that fans of the novels will get a treat or two. I think that’s exactly what she was referring to. In fact, you can see it in the second trailer at a quick glance.

    That's what I thought it was in the trailer.

    Ohhh dear! Now I AM getting very excited to see this. \:D/
    That was my immediate thought when I saw "Poison Garden" as one of the title tracks. That probably explains why the movie was originally titled Shatterhand. Looks like they've finally found a way to introduce the missing YOLT book's garden of death!

    And I am wondering now whether the film will end like the book - amnesia ridden Bond sailing off somewhere, not knowing who he is. This would wrap up the Craig era nicely, CR as its birth, YOLT as its death, and kick start the new actor with the next film, and the opening to TMWTGG.

    It would be even more interesting to reboot with the next actor, but use the opening of TMWTGG as our introduction to the new Bond. The new Bond then has to relearn who he is and by the end when he’s offered knighthood he turns it down because he’s better off as just James Bond, the civil servant. Thus you’ve kicked off a new era of Bond. Might as well title it Licence Renewed, but no need to use the Gardner story.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited September 2021 Posts: 14,861
    Listening to it, yeah, I'm not really getting the David Arnold comparisons.

    'Matera' is the only one that sounds Arnold-ish to me, because it's doing that sort of slightly bland 'pretty, lush music' thing and almost sounds like a rework of the Venice arrival music from CR (you can really feel them temp tracking this sequence with that music), which itself was the closest Arnold got to a Barry homage. Other than that, yeah; I'm not getting Arnold comparisons.
    One of the tracks (I forget which) actually ends on a very Barry-style single, held, resolving note though. I haven't heard that in a while! :)

    I think I can feel that this score is really designed to work with the film, which sounds obvious(!), but for me this really does feel like half the experience and I didn't massively enjoy listening. Other than the Eilish track being peppered through (and I do think that's brilliant: I can imagine her fans loving this movie for that and that can't be a bad thing) there's nothing massively thematic going on here. It's very energetic and bombastic though, and that's what Bond needs so that's all good.
    I'm surprised at all the praise considering that Newman's score got criticised for not featured the Bond theme enough, and as far as I can tell there's possibly even less of it here.
    CJB007FR wrote: »
    Full album AAC 96kHz will erase my link tonight...
    Enjoy

    https://we.tl/t-ZHEXHy7i9a

    Hi Laurent! Many thanks :)
  • HeinsenbergHeinsenberg France
    Posts: 48
    I agree on this point, still no triumphant Bond theme here.
  • Posts: 12,243
    Listening to Final Ascent again, I get the following scene in my head:

    Begins with Bond making what looks like an ultimate sacrifice. No apparent way out. Eventually a transition to Madeleine and Mathilde in the car. In the final minute or so, we see somehow Bond alive, on some island, with someone asking him his name, when the film cuts to black with the Bond theme playing
  • matt_umatt_u better known as Mr. Roark
    Posts: 4,343
    FoxRox wrote: »
    Listening to Final Ascent again, I get the following scene in my head:

    Begins with Bond making what looks like an ultimate sacrifice. No apparent way out. Eventually a transition to Madeleine and Mathilde in the car. In the final minute or so, we see somehow Bond alive, on some island, with someone asking him his name, when the film cuts to black with the Bond theme playing
    Swann and Mathilde escape with Nomi by boat. We know the very end of the film takes place in South Italy, with Swann and Mathilde driving the V8.

    As I already pointed out months ago, and I'm speculating basing it on nothing, I believe Swann will find out Bond is indeed alive in Matera, perhaps seeing the DB5 parked in front of their honeymoon retreat. Something like that.

    There's no way they won't hint at Bond being indeed alive. The movie is called No Time to Die, for Christ sake! :D
  • NoTimeToLiveNoTimeToLive Jamaica
    Posts: 66
    bondsum wrote: »
    Just had a quick browse through each clip. Yes, I'm really liking what I have heard so far. Obviously loving the OHMSS references too. Nods to Barry throughout, but still sounds very Zimmer/Nolan.

    If the film is as good as the soundtrack, we are in for a classic!

    And one more thing - Poison Garden? Surely not Shatterhand's garden of death? :-O

    In an interview, Barbara Broccoli said that fans of the novels will get a treat or two. I think that’s exactly what she was referring to. In fact, you can see it in the second trailer at a quick glance.

    That's what I thought it was in the trailer.

    Ohhh dear! Now I AM getting very excited to see this. \:D/
    That was my immediate thought when I saw "Poison Garden" as one of the title tracks. That probably explains why the movie was originally titled Shatterhand. Looks like they've finally found a way to introduce the missing YOLT book's garden of death!


    Was it ever officially confirmed to be titled Shatterhand? Even Barbara Broccoli outright confirmed Shatterhand wasn't the title.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,000
    It’s an absolute certainty that Arnold’s “The Name is Bond… James Bond” will play just in time for the credits.
  • Posts: 12,243
    matt_u wrote: »
    FoxRox wrote: »
    Listening to Final Ascent again, I get the following scene in my head:

    Begins with Bond making what looks like an ultimate sacrifice. No apparent way out. Eventually a transition to Madeleine and Mathilde in the car. In the final minute or so, we see somehow Bond alive, on some island, with someone asking him his name, when the film cuts to black with the Bond theme playing
    Swann and Mathilde escape with Nomi by boat. We know the very end of the film takes place in South Italy, with Swann and Mathilde driving the V8.

    As I already pointed out months ago, and I'm speculating basing it on nothing, I believe Swann will find out Bond is indeed alive in Matera, perhaps seeing the DB5 parked in front of their honeymoon retreat. Something like that.

    There's no way they won't hint at Bond being indeed alive. The movie is called No Time to Die, for Christ sake! :D
    I like it! Yes, I really don’t think Bond’s going to die. Just a little part of me worries, but I think he has to make it. He beats the biggest odds ever, and the audience roars and applauds! This is how it’s meant to be!
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited September 2021 Posts: 14,861
    It’s an absolute certainty that Arnold’s “The Name is Bond… James Bond” will play just in time for the credits.

    I tend to think if it does they should put it on the CD, even if it's not an original piece. I remember as a kid liking the scores where you would get a full statement of the theme somewhere- I think if you buy a James Bond CD you want the James Bond theme on it. At least this one has the song on it: imagine buying a CD called 'Skyfall' and not getting Skyfall on it! :)

    I found the track: listen to the very end of 15. Gearing Up - it ends on a John Barry note straight from one of his 80s films :D It's not a great Barry homage (it's one note!) but it was funny to hear it.
  • Posts: 3,333
    bondsum wrote: »
    Just had a quick browse through each clip. Yes, I'm really liking what I have heard so far. Obviously loving the OHMSS references too. Nods to Barry throughout, but still sounds very Zimmer/Nolan.

    If the film is as good as the soundtrack, we are in for a classic!

    And one more thing - Poison Garden? Surely not Shatterhand's garden of death? :-O

    In an interview, Barbara Broccoli said that fans of the novels will get a treat or two. I think that’s exactly what she was referring to. In fact, you can see it in the second trailer at a quick glance.

    That's what I thought it was in the trailer.

    Ohhh dear! Now I AM getting very excited to see this. \:D/
    That was my immediate thought when I saw "Poison Garden" as one of the title tracks. That probably explains why the movie was originally titled Shatterhand. Looks like they've finally found a way to introduce the missing YOLT book's garden of death!


    Was it ever officially confirmed to be titled Shatterhand? Even Barbara Broccoli outright confirmed Shatterhand wasn't the title.
    It was the preliminary working title within Eon, I believe. Nothing is ever confirmed outside of HQ until it becomes official.
    And I am wondering now whether the film will end like the book - amnesia ridden Bond sailing off somewhere, not knowing who he is. This would wrap up the Craig era nicely, CR as its birth, YOLT as its death, and kick start the new actor with the next film, and the opening to TMWTGG.
    I don't know if they'd use the end of YOLT's amnesia and TMWTGG original opener due to Jason Bourne having already been there and done it before. Sure, Robert Ludlum borrowed heavily from Fleming with the amnesia, revenge and loss of identity plot, but will the average cinemagoer with limited knowledge of the orginal books just think the producers are copying Jason Bourne, rather than the other way round? I'm not going to totally rule it out, though, as you never know.

    It does appear that the producers are taking unused elements of Fleming's YOLT book and incorporating them into NTTD, especially with the garden of death and this ambiguous young child that's been carefully omitted from all the movie's publicity. Clearly the comment from Christoph Waltz as Blofeld where he says: "When her secret finds its way out, it would be the death of you" is a reference to a big reveal moment. My guess is that it's Bond's undisclosed daughter. Some here might scream that this is a spoiler, but I'd argue speculation isn't a spoiler as it's not based on anything tangible, it's just a hunch.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 14,861
    No spoilers in this thread please! Apologies if you didn't put any but I stopped reading when it seemed like you were talking about the plot.
  • SatoriousSatorious Brushing up on a little Danish
    Posts: 231
    I must confess that after the near carbon copy Gun Barrel from Spectre and the "Alarm clock" bridge jump clip I was getting a bit concerned - but it seems Zimmer knocked this out the park to make one of the best non-Barry soundtracks. I'm basing this on just one listen as don't want to get over familiar - but seems a perfect blend of Arnold, Newman, Barry and Zimmer. Cuba Chase and the last minute of 'Message From An Old Friend' is exactly the kind of Bond music I've been missing "action wise" - they put a big smile on my face - can't wait to experience this on the big screen. Bravo Hans/Steve!
  • Posts: 3,333
    mtm wrote: »
    No spoilers in this thread please! Apologies if you didn't put any but I stopped reading when it seemed like you were talking about the plot.
    As I pointed out above: It's purely speculation, nothing based on fact. The quotation I used was in the official trailer. Trailers are produced to make you think. Unless you're completely void of deliberation skills, that is.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited September 2021 Posts: 14,861
    bondsum wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    No spoilers in this thread please! Apologies if you didn't put any but I stopped reading when it seemed like you were talking about the plot.
    As I pointed out above: It's purely speculation, nothing based on fact.

    When we're talking about how the film might end I think it might be one for the spoiler tags or a spoiler thread please. Everyone else is using them: even in speculation little hints of plot which others may not know come out e.g. 'seeing as we know the film ends in x location, maybe that means...' etc.
    bondsum wrote: »
    The quotation I used was in the official trailer. Trailers are produced to make you think. Unless you're completely void of deliberation skills, that is.

    Don't imply people can't think because they ask not to have spoilers in a music thread, there's just no need for that.


    Anyway, for us thinkers it seems the link is down?
  • matt_umatt_u better known as Mr. Roark
    Posts: 4,343
    Yep, it’s no longer available.
  • Posts: 12,243
    Damn. I’m glad I got a couple listens in while I could. Really really like it! Probably best I don’t burn out on it before the movie anyway haha.
  • silva13silva13 Australia
    Posts: 198
    Since the link is down, any speculation on when the soundtrack will be available again?
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 14,861
    FoxRox wrote: »
    Damn. I’m glad I got a couple listens in while I could. Really really like it! Probably best I don’t burn out on it before the movie anyway haha.

    Yes it's good not to know it off by heart. I remember watching TWINE for the first time in the cinema and knowing exactly when Bond would appear in Davidov's car boot because I knew the track from the score so well already and it had a bit where the Bond theme kicked in there! :)
  • Posts: 3,333
    mtm wrote: »
    bondsum wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    No spoilers in this thread please! Apologies if you didn't put any but I stopped reading when it seemed like you were talking about the plot.
    As I pointed out above: It's purely speculation, nothing based on fact.

    When we're talking about how the film might end I think it might be one for the spoiler tags or a spoiler thread please. Everyone else is using them: even in speculation little hints of plot which others may not know come out e.g. 'seeing as we know the film ends in x location, maybe that means...' etc.
    bondsum wrote: »
    The quotation I used was in the official trailer. Trailers are produced to make you think. Unless you're completely void of deliberation skills, that is.

    Don't imply people can't think because they ask not to have spoilers in a music thread, there's just no need for that.


    Anyway, for us thinkers it seems the link is down?
    I agree that spoilers should be hidden (which I've done many times already in this particular thread), but I draw the line at conjecture. Sorry, we're just going to have to disagree on what constitutes a spoiler. To most sane and level-headed adults, a spoiler is a description of an important plot development based on tangible facts, not an opinion or conclusion formed on the basis of incomplete information. The fact that some are falling in line and hiding their impressions behind a spoiler bar is the defination of insanity. Does that mean the soundtrack titles should also be hidden behind spoiler bars just in case they give away a fundamental plot point? Where do you draw the line at what constitutes a spoiler @mtm?
    mtm wrote: »
    Don't imply people can't think because they ask not to have spoilers in a music thread, there's just no need for that.
    Could've fooled me. That's exactly what you're demanding. We're not allowed to give our own impressions or opinions on something unless we conform to hiding them behind a blank wall just in case of what exactly? For the last and final time, it's conjecture!! Conjecture isn't based on information that's known or proven to be true. It's a supposition.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited September 2021 Posts: 14,861
    bondsum wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    bondsum wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    No spoilers in this thread please! Apologies if you didn't put any but I stopped reading when it seemed like you were talking about the plot.
    As I pointed out above: It's purely speculation, nothing based on fact.

    When we're talking about how the film might end I think it might be one for the spoiler tags or a spoiler thread please. Everyone else is using them: even in speculation little hints of plot which others may not know come out e.g. 'seeing as we know the film ends in x location, maybe that means...' etc.
    bondsum wrote: »
    The quotation I used was in the official trailer. Trailers are produced to make you think. Unless you're completely void of deliberation skills, that is.

    Don't imply people can't think because they ask not to have spoilers in a music thread, there's just no need for that.


    Anyway, for us thinkers it seems the link is down?
    I agree that spoilers should be hidden (which I've done many times already in this particular thread), but I draw the line at conjecture. Sorry, we're just going to have to disagree on what constitutes a spoiler. To most sane and level-headed adults, a spoiler is a description of an important plot development based on tangible facts, not an opinion or conclusion formed on the basis of incomplete information. The fact that some are falling in line and hiding their impressions behind a spoiler bar is the defination of insanity. Does that mean the soundtrack titles should also be hidden behind spoiler bars just in case they give away a fundamental plot point? Where do you draw the line at what constitutes a spoiler @mtm?
    mtm wrote: »
    Don't imply people can't think because they ask not to have spoilers in a music thread, there's just no need for that.
    Could've fooled me. That's exactly what you're demanding. We're not allowed to give our own impressions or opinions on something unless we conform to hiding them behind a blank wall just in case of what exactly? For the last and final time, it's conjecture!! Conjecture isn't based on information that's known or proven to be true. It's a supposition.

    You really need to calm down on this: there's no need to be talking about whether someone is 'sane' or 'level-headed' or accusing them of being unable to think. If you're taking my post (where I asked using 'please' and apologised if I was wrong) as a 'demand' then you're being way too hot-headed: insulting someone in various ways for them asking that in a polite way is not an appropriate response. Take a few minutes offline and have a breather, I'm not really interested in talking about this with you further: I'd rather just talk about the music. Thanks.
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