Indiana Jones and the Dial of Destiny (30th June 2023)

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  • Posts: 631
    IDK, I’m still worried by this setting. Setting it in the sixties almost feels like they’re stepping onto Bond’s territory. Hmm.

    But like I said, I hope I’m wrong. It can’t possibly be worse than KOTCS, can it? I mean, there’s no possible way that what we will see in the cinemas will be a shoddy mess, overloaded with CGI, overloaded with unnecessary callbacks and references to earlier films as “a treat for fans,” with a plot that makes no sense at all, and with much-beloved characters brought back only to be used as the butt for comedy? There’s no way at all that the film makers would do that? Is there?

    If KOTCS had been a better film than it turned out to be then I would be feeling happier about this. But KOTCS wasn’t very good really, and now Disney owns it I can’t really see it getting any better. So I think there is a good chance that we have not yet seen the worst Indiana Jones film ever made, because they are still making it, and it is yet to be released.

    But I do hope my worries are unfounded because I love the character.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 14,924
    I was watching Ford vs Ferrari last night and it's an incredibly well-made and well-written story: plus it actually looks not unlike an Indy film in places too: it's really gorgeously shot. I'm not too worried just yet, and I'm actually just interested to see what they do with it.

    You say KOTCS is a shoddy mess, overloaded with CGI, but I watched Joe Johnston's Captain America again the other day, and that is an incredibly bland bit of nothing, similar in tone in that it's a period adventure story full of derring-do: but if you want to look at something with an empty heart and wall-to-wall terrible CGI (despite good performances), there's your film. Skull actually feels like a real, proper old fashioned movie next to that.
  • talos7talos7 New Orleans
    Posts: 7,954
    mtm wrote: »
    I was watching Ford vs Ferrari last night and it's an incredibly well-made and well-written story: plus it actually looks not unlike an Indy film in places too: it's really gorgeously shot. I'm not too worried just yet, and I'm actually just interested to see what they do with it.

    You say KOTCS is a shoddy mess, overloaded with CGI, but I watched Joe Johnston's Captain America again the other day, and that is an incredibly bland bit of nothing, similar in tone in that it's a period adventure story full of derring-do: but if you want to look at something with an empty heart and wall-to-wall terrible CGI (despite good performances), there's your film. Skull actually feels like a real, proper old fashioned movie next to that.

    I have to respectfully disagree here; Captain America is a far better film, on every level. For me it a too 5 Marvel film.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited July 2021 Posts: 14,924
    It’s boring.
    And you can’t deny it has far more and far worse CGI. Look at that dreadful runway scene towards the end with Tommy Lee Jones pretending to drive a car. Or that embarrassing train sequence. It seems kind of crazy people complain about Skull using CG when it’s full of real stunts. I spotted about two in Cap America.
  • talos7talos7 New Orleans
    Posts: 7,954
    mtm wrote: »
    It’s boring.
    And you can’t deny it has far more and far worse CGI. Look at that dreadful runway scene towards the end with Tommy Lee Jones pretending to drive a car. Or that embarrassing train sequence. It seems kind of crazy people complain about Skull using CG when it’s full of real stunts. I spotted about two in Cap America.

    I couldn’t disagree more, but that’s just personal preference.
    As far as the CG, the work that was done on “ skinny “ Steve Rogers is exceptional and the rest suits the comic book source material of the film. I tend to be more forgiving when it comes to CG for a comic book adaptation. I expect more from Indiana Jones.

  • CraigMooreOHMSSCraigMooreOHMSS Dublin, Ireland
    Posts: 8,026
    The First Avenger has some shocking CG towards the end but it is ultimately still a much more enjoyable film than KOTCS.
  • Posts: 47
    There is no way they'd do aliens again after the Crystal Skull.
  • Posts: 12,506
    Shame about Ford's injury. Hopefully he will be back on set soon!
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited July 2021 Posts: 14,924
    talos7 wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    It’s boring.
    And you can’t deny it has far more and far worse CGI. Look at that dreadful runway scene towards the end with Tommy Lee Jones pretending to drive a car. Or that embarrassing train sequence. It seems kind of crazy people complain about Skull using CG when it’s full of real stunts. I spotted about two in Cap America.

    I couldn’t disagree more, but that’s just personal preference.
    As far as the CG, the work that was done on “ skinny “ Steve Rogers is exceptional and the rest suits the comic book source material of the film. I tend to be more forgiving when it comes to CG for a comic book adaptation. I expect more from Indiana Jones.

    The skinny stuff is amazing (even if I never believe it), but the comic book thing is really just an excuse- it's awful CG and really ruins the film. I don't for a second believe that train abseil thing and it looks stupid. Basically it means people hold Indy to a higher standard, which is understandable but not fair. To gripe about the CG in that and look past horrible stuff like Cap Am has in the same genre (and made several years later!) is odd.

    It's a very hollow and charmless film and just feels empty, drifting into a greenscreen world of bland action about two thirds in and never recovering. There's even a bike chase which is shot for real and it's.. nothing. I was so disappointed that it came from the director of Rocketeer. KOTCS has bags more heart, flawed though it is.
  • talos7talos7 New Orleans
    Posts: 7,954
    mtm wrote: »
    talos7 wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    It’s boring.
    And you can’t deny it has far more and far worse CGI. Look at that dreadful runway scene towards the end with Tommy Lee Jones pretending to drive a car. Or that embarrassing train sequence. It seems kind of crazy people complain about Skull using CG when it’s full of real stunts. I spotted about two in Cap America.

    I couldn’t disagree more, but that’s just personal preference.
    As far as the CG, the work that was done on “ skinny “ Steve Rogers is exceptional and the rest suits the comic book source material of the film. I tend to be more forgiving when it comes to CG for a comic book adaptation. I expect more from Indiana Jones.

    The skinny stuff is amazing (even if I never believe it), but the comic book thing is really just an excuse- it's awful CG and really ruins the film. I don't for a second believe that train abseil thing and it looks stupid. Basically it means people hold Indy to a higher standard, which is understandable but not fair. To gripe about the CG in that and look past horrible stuff like Cap Am has in the same genre (and made several years later!) is odd.
    It's a very hollow and charmless film and just feels empty, drifting into a greenscreen world about two thirds in and never recovering. I was so disappointed that it came from the director of Rocketeer. KOTCS has bags more heart, flawed though it is.

    We must have seen different movies . 😉

  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited July 2021 Posts: 14,924
    talos7 wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    talos7 wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    It’s boring.
    And you can’t deny it has far more and far worse CGI. Look at that dreadful runway scene towards the end with Tommy Lee Jones pretending to drive a car. Or that embarrassing train sequence. It seems kind of crazy people complain about Skull using CG when it’s full of real stunts. I spotted about two in Cap America.

    I couldn’t disagree more, but that’s just personal preference.
    As far as the CG, the work that was done on “ skinny “ Steve Rogers is exceptional and the rest suits the comic book source material of the film. I tend to be more forgiving when it comes to CG for a comic book adaptation. I expect more from Indiana Jones.

    The skinny stuff is amazing (even if I never believe it), but the comic book thing is really just an excuse- it's awful CG and really ruins the film. I don't for a second believe that train abseil thing and it looks stupid. Basically it means people hold Indy to a higher standard, which is understandable but not fair. To gripe about the CG in that and look past horrible stuff like Cap Am has in the same genre (and made several years later!) is odd.
    It's a very hollow and charmless film and just feels empty, drifting into a greenscreen world about two thirds in and never recovering. I was so disappointed that it came from the director of Rocketeer. KOTCS has bags more heart, flawed though it is.

    We must have seen different movies . 😉

    Well you think that wasn't all horrible CG then I'll have to give you the name of my oculist :D
  • DoctorNoDoctorNo USA-Maryland
    Posts: 754
    I have faith in Mangold… honestly if I were making it I would probably pretend Crusade and Skull don’t exist and go back to IJ as darker character with a slight mercenary streak and not a Boy Scout with sentimental family ties for comedy… stick to dark action adventure.

    Ford v Ferrari was set in 60s and was done perfectly… whereas Crystal Skulls 50isms were so heavy handed and contrived it was ridiculous.
  • MaxCasinoMaxCasino United States
    Posts: 4,102
    They both have their pros and cons. The pro they share: they’re meant to be mindless fun, and they succeed, for me. Underrated fun villains, as well. The cons: boring action at times. Too corny of humor, as well. Bucky is boring, and Mutt is annoying. On the overall: cheap entertainment, which is the minimum of what I want from Indy or Marvel.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 14,924
    DoctorNo wrote: »
    I have faith in Mangold… honestly if I were making it I would probably pretend Crusade and Skull don’t exist and go back to IJ as darker character with a slight mercenary streak and not a Boy Scout with sentimental family ties for comedy… stick to dark action adventure.

    I have been thinking recently that as good as it was, Last Crusade did mess the series up slightly. Temple was a proper 'next film in the sequence', almost like a Bond film- it was the same character in a new and interesting adventure. But Last Crusade went back to the Raiders formula- it even used the same font in the credits! And now that seems to be seen as the 'Indy formula': do a Raiders remake with a Jones family member.
    I'm certainly hoping that, as you say, they take more of a lead from Temple's way of doing things i.e. a new adventure story with Indy in it which doesn't take the form of 'race against time to find a christian relic which an army of baddies are also searching for, which will kill them in the end, with a third act vehicle chase, ideally in a desert'.
  • I love Crystal Skull(apart from shia lebeof scenes) and Captain America.
  • HildebrandRarityHildebrandRarity Centre international d'assistance aux personnes déplacées, Paris, France
    edited July 2021 Posts: 467
    I bet it will be 1969.

    Jzik3UV.jpg

    Anyway, if you want to see how an Indiana Jones movie could work in the sixties, just consider one of its inspirations (which I may have already mentioned here), That Man from Rio.

    Indiana Jones is part James Bond, and part Tintin, the Belgian comics, except that neither Spielberg nor Lucas knew Tintin at this point. Spielberg had on the other hand watched dozens of time a French film starring Jean-Paul Belmondo called That Man from Rio, co-starring the late Françoise Dorléac (Catherine Deneuve's sister) and Adolfo Celi. Director Philippe de Broca had worked for a while on a live action Tintin adaptation that didn't go off the ground (it was ultimately handled by a different team) but paid tribute to the albums when he put together an adventure film with Belmondo.
    Spielberg ultimately discovered Tintin when people pointed out to him that it was a major inspiration on this French film.
    And many things from the opening sequence from ROTLA, like the giant ball and the statue, are references to the ending of That Man from Rio.

    Belmondo and de Broca worked together a few more times, including Up to His Ears (co-starring Ursula Andress), which is not as satisfying as That Man from Rio but features impressive stunt work by Belmondo (it reportedly impressed the Hong Kong film industry and a young Jackie Chan a lot), and Le Magnifique, where Belmondo's love interest is Jacqueline Bisset. Le Magnifique is a trite spy story... that doubles up as comedic meta fiction. The first sequences are ridiculously pulp and corny, starring French suave spy Bob Saint-Clar, until it's revealed that they're the work of criminally shy writer François Merlin (also Belmondo), who has to deliver a 43th entry in his series but faces a lot of issues in his life, that permeate more and more in his writing. Merlin/Saint-Clar is less a reference to Fleming than to the second rate spy thrillers which where very popular in France at the time (OSS 117 of course, but also SAS).

    I mention this because these films were also a huge inspiration to the recent OSS 117 spoof reboot starring Jean Dujardin, particularly the second one. There's a third film that will premiere in Cannes next week, but it looks like there's a different creative team in charge.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    Maybe Armstrong and Aldrin found something on the Moon, and the nazis are after it.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 14,924
    I bet it will be 1969.

    Jzik3UV.jpg

    Anyway, if you want to see how an Indiana Jones movie could work in the sixties, just consider one of its inspirations (which I may have already mentioned here), That Man from Rio.

    Indiana Jones is part James Bond, and part Tintin, the Belgian comics, except that neither Spielberg nor Lucas knew Tintin at this point. Spielberg had on the other hand watched dozens of time a French film starring Jean-Paul Belmondo called That Man from Rio, co-starring the late Françoise Dorléac (Catherine Deneuve's sister) and Adolfo Celi. Director Philippe de Broca had worked for a while on a live action Tintin adaptation that didn't go off the ground (it was ultimately handled by a different team) but paid tribute to the albums when he put together an adventure film with Belmondo.
    Spielberg ultimately discovered Tintin when people pointed out to him that it was a major inspiration on this French film.
    And many things from the opening sequence from ROTLA, like the giant ball and the statue, are references to the ending of That Man from Rio.

    Belmondo and de Broca worked together a few more times, including Up to His Ears (co-starring Ursula Andress), which is not as satisfying as That Man from Rio but features impressive stunt work by Belmondo (it reportedly impressed the Hong Kong film industry and a young Jackie Chan a lot), and Le Magnifique, where Belmondo's love interest is Jacqueline Bisset. Le Magnifique is a trite spy story... that doubles up as comedic meta fiction. The first sequences are ridiculously pulp and corny, starring French suave spy Bob Saint-Clar, until it's revealed that they're the work of criminally shy writer François Merlin (also Belmondo), who has to deliver a 43th entry in his series but faces a lot of issues in his life, that permeate more and more in his writing. Merlin/Saint-Clar is less a reference to Fleming than to the second rate spy thrillers which where very popular in France at the time (OSS 117 of course, but also SAS).

    I mention this because these films were also a huge inspiration to the recent OSS 117 spoof reboot starring Jean Dujardin, particularly the second one. There's a third film that will premiere in Cannes next week, but it looks like there's a different creative team in charge.

    These sound good, I’ll have to check them out, thanks.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 14,924
    Lots of fun glimpses of the set popping up, and even less doubt about what the parade is for! :D

  • DenbighDenbigh UK
    Posts: 5,869
    Can't wait to see what Phoebe looks like :)
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 14,924
    Yes I'll be very interested to see what her character is like. I'm almost imagining a sort of Diane Keaton-style character, but even that's a bit late period-wise!
  • DenbighDenbigh UK
    edited July 2021 Posts: 5,869
    I can't imagine they'll have to do much. She already has the look of a female adventurer in a different time period. I'm imagining something like Elizabeth Stanwyck in Escape to Burma or Vilma Bánky in The Winning of Barbara Worth. Although probably with more of a touch of the 60s.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 14,924
    Well she may not be an adventurer of course- maybe she's even a baddie. I could kind of imagine her as a reporter perhaps? An academic type also. NASA scientist even! :)
  • DenbighDenbigh UK
    edited July 2021 Posts: 5,869
    mtm wrote: »
    Well she may not be an adventurer of course- maybe she's even a baddie. I could kind of imagine her as a reporter perhaps? An academic type also. NASA scientist even! :)
    That's true! She could be either though I still think her look would be perfect for the type of character I mentioned :)
    I also do think she will be good, I could be wrong on any of this but I think Shaunette Renée Wilson may be one of the baddies. Either way, a female baddie would be great. I loved Elsa from The Last Crusade, and even Irina Spalko.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 14,924
    I'm pretty sure Mads will be the main baddie as, well, he's Mads! But Indy films do often have a few joint villains of course so you may well be right.
    Actually that's one aspect in which Skull does deviate from the Raiders/Crusade template: Spalko is really the only villain. I know there's the other Russian guy with the name beginning with D ( :) ) but he's more of a Bond-style henchman than a co-villain like Toht or Vogel.
  • DenbighDenbigh UK
    edited July 2021 Posts: 5,869
    Oh definitely! It'll be interesting to see how they differentiate Mads' character from other villains he's played. And yeah, another thing Crystal Skull was missing despite it not being completely awful in my opinion. At least, we'll have an array of supporting characters this time. I definitely think Toby Jones will be our "new Brody", but the biggest mystery to me is Boyd Holbrook and Thomas Kretschmann.
  • Posts: 3,166
    Denbigh wrote: »
    the biggest mystery to me is Boyd Holbrook and Thomas Kretschmann.
    Kretschmann = nazi. Guaranteed! Or wait.... maybe he is the scientist?
  • Posts: 1,551
    mtm wrote: »
    Since62 wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    Benny wrote: »
    Well if this film has anything to do with the Cuban missile crisis of '62, then perhaps it's a parade for astronaut John Glenn?

    Yeah, if it's not a fictional parade (or just a Thanksgiving one!), then I think that seems a likely one; it could possibly be JFK's nomination parade in 1960 too. There were a number of others but those seem to have the most resonance nowadays. Could be a Yankees/Mets one but they seem a bit arbitrary, somehow. Still, if it's an action scene I guess the crowded parade is the important thing rather than what it's for.
    Unless it is the Apollo 11 one in '69, but I just don't think this film is set that late.

    Regardless, if it is an action scene (and would they need to shoot for two weeks if it wasn't?) I think we can expect to start getting some juicy shots of Ford in action this time next week :)


    EDIT: I see someone on Reddit has spotted a Coke logo which is from 1969. So we could be '69, or it could be an error (they have hung the American flags the wrong way around so it's possible!).

    Just a note were it to relate in the slightest: the NY Mets did not exist or play until 1962

    Yes, and they had a parade in their honour in both ‘62 and ‘69. Not sure of your point.

    Some folks have wondered whether the film might be set before 1962. Were there really some sort of Mets reference in the film, that would indicate the film were not set before 1962.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 14,924
    Yes it's looking cool! I can't wait to see some snaps when they start filming, it should look really impressive.
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