Where does Bond go after Craig? *Potential SPOILERS*

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  • ImpertinentGoonImpertinentGoon Everybody needs a hobby.
    edited January 28 Posts: 610
    With all the weirdness around Game Stop and r/wallstreetbets going on, I thought I'd dust off my idea for a LALD (the novel) redo:
    Instead of a racial divide make it economical. Instead of Mr. Big being "the great Negro gangster" and basically the owner and major power in Harlem with Bond having to go there as a fish out of water, have Big run a type of get-rich-quick scheme that makes his most ardent followers become very, very protective of the man and of course turns out to have a very dark underbelly of some sort. With a good writer, social media elements could be used effectively (not too "Black Mirror", but I drift in that direction) to replace the switch-board aspect of the novel. The idea that Big has his eyes and ears everywhere.
    You could then also throw in a little bit of Drax with this guy actually worming his way into the upper-reaches of high society and generally being seen as a everyman hero in some way. Depending on how Ken Loach you want to be about this, the whole hook for Bond being sent on the mission could be the Bank of England or the British Government fearing too much of a redistribution of wealth or some such (think Goldfinger) with Bond subsequently having to figure out whether that is actually a worthy mission or not.
    Possibilities for Bond trying to infiltrate the structure seem endless and once a writer has nailed down the details of Big's scheme I don't think it would be all that hard to find a place for a Solitaire figure.
    The part I haven't found a simile for yet is the Harlem of it all. A very cheap version would be having Bond go into a trailer park in Alabama full of people looking at Big as their saviour, but I really hate that idea myself. My best solution yet would be a kind of sales convention, where Big pulls in his victims/followers, but I don't really know a way to make that interesting. But it leads to the reason I came up with this whole thing in the first place: Cast Jamie Foxx as Mr. Big and have him do a 5-minute scene combining this

    and this
    .

    The final act would probably need some re-working, because the way it is set-up in LALD, the novel, might be a bit close to what we will see in NTTD and the keelhauling has of course been used in FYEO.
  • Posts: 616
    Your description of the villain makes one wonder who's really the villain in such a story. It reminds me of one of the "villains" in WW84, before he went weird, and would tell people: Life is Goooood ! But it can be Betterrrr...
  • mrlynxmrlynx Maine
    Posts: 26
    Look up Keith Raniere and the NXIVM cult. This is exactly what you're talking about - there's even a place for a Solitaire character
  • ImpertinentGoonImpertinentGoon Everybody needs a hobby.
    Posts: 610
    mrlynx wrote: »
    Look up Keith Raniere and the NXIVM cult. This is exactly what you're talking about - there's even a place for a Solitaire character

    Oh my god. You are right! And that makes it too real for me to want to take this thought experiment even further. I mean, they apparently branded women and then prostituted them. That is seriously fucked up.
  • Posts: 616
    Would that be something worthy of a Double O agent ? Wouldn't it be appropriate for law enforcement such as police ? I guess you're suggesting the cult would be inspirational, and a storyline for a Bond film would somehow be written at a level of worthiness. You'd have to manage to avoid too much similarity with LTK and Wayne Newton's Professor Joe Butcher. (Wayne Newton, btw, who became quite the Vegas Guy, would have been better cast in DAF)
  • ImpertinentGoonImpertinentGoon Everybody needs a hobby.
    edited February 11 Posts: 610
    Since62 wrote: »
    Would that be something worthy of a Double O agent ? Wouldn't it be appropriate for law enforcement such as police ? I guess you're suggesting the cult would be inspirational, and a storyline for a Bond film would somehow be written at a level of worthiness. You'd have to manage to avoid too much similarity with LTK and Wayne Newton's Professor Joe Butcher. (Wayne Newton, btw, who became quite the Vegas Guy, would have been better cast in DAF)

    Another good point. In the end, that boils down to whether we would accept the reasons for Bond's involvement that where given in f.e. LALD (the novel) and Goldfinger today. If I recall correctly, both of them are basically about the structural integrity of the British monetary system in the face of large amounts of Gold being either introduced to or substracted from the system. In LALD, the operation against Mr. Big is led by the FBI (so law enforcement) and Bond is originally only there because there is a connection to Jamaica, which at the time was still part of the Empire.
    There are two possible ways I see this working.
    The more socially critical one (which is, I think, something Bond has never done) would be to go a similar route: This "cult" is somehow threatening the structure of the British economic system and MI6 and/or their Overseers don't have a problem with sending a double-0 after the leader to reinforce the status quo. The movie would then hinge on Bond having to figure out who the "real villain" is. This might be a bit too close to SP's C plot.
    The second option is more straight forward that the "dark side" of the villainous organisation is even more evil than "just" human trafficking (not to downplay the horrific things NXIVM did, but that does seem more like a law enforcement situation). Financing terrorism. Working with a foreign adversary. Having terrorist plans themselves like for example brainwashing twelve beautiful young women from all over the world, to use them as couriers for a biological weapon.
    Both ways could use the angle of having somebody high up in British society - possibly even a member of the royal family - connected to the cult. I read that the daughter of a former President of Mexico was involved with NXIVM, so the jump isn't that far.

    As for Professor Joe: Another thing I had forgotten! But honestly, I don't mind a 2025 version of Prof. Joe turning up in a movie. I like him. You are right however, that this would probably be seen as too much recycling.
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    Posts: 4,466
    I'm starting to change my mind on whether Bond 26 should be a reboot.

    I previously thought that we don't need another reboot so soon after the last (shades of Spiderman)...but now I wonder, given Craig's age by the time the bloody film gets released, added to the intensely personal nature of Craig's era, *if* it is better to start afresh.

    As an example, is the next Bond going to be pining after/working through his complicated emotions for Vesper? Craig and Green were so strong together in CR that it's hard to see a new Bond taking up the Vesper mantle.

    This is different than Rigg in OHMSS, which was essentially a one-hander. (The strong echoes of Tracy from DAF through LTK (and possibly TWINE) are all thanks to her, and don't seem tethered to a particular Bond.)
  • Posts: 89
    echo wrote: »
    I'm starting to change my mind on whether Bond 26 should be a reboot.

    I previously thought that we don't need another reboot so soon after the last (shades of Spiderman)...but now I wonder, given Craig's age by the time the bloody film gets released, added to the intensely personal nature of Craig's era, *if* it is better to start afresh.

    As an example, is the next Bond going to be pining after/working through his complicated emotions for Vesper? Craig and Green were so strong together in CR that it's hard to see a new Bond taking up the Vesper mantle.

    This is different than Rigg in OHMSS, which was essentially a one-hander. (The strong echoes of Tracy from DAF through LTK (and possibly TWINE) are all thanks to her, and don't seem tethered to a particular Bond.)

    I can't really see an alternative seeing as much of the Craig era has been about him being middle aged and past his prime. If CR was a self-contained film then there wouldn't be an issue but because its story has since been expanded in subsequent films, the assumption would be that this is the same Bond who later became "out of step" and eventually retired. Unless they cast an actor who's only a couple of years younger than Craig and continue milking that plot point for the next few films, then the only other option is to reboot.

    My prediction is that Bond 26 will be about as much of a reboot as TLD was, in that the actor playing Bond will be much younger and will probably play the part quite differently. They can keep the regulars on but no mention will be made to previous films' events.
  • ImpertinentGoonImpertinentGoon Everybody needs a hobby.
    Posts: 610
    echo wrote: »
    I'm starting to change my mind on whether Bond 26 should be a reboot.

    I previously thought that we don't need another reboot so soon after the last (shades of Spiderman)...but now I wonder, given Craig's age by the time the bloody film gets released, added to the intensely personal nature of Craig's era, *if* it is better to start afresh.

    As an example, is the next Bond going to be pining after/working through his complicated emotions for Vesper? Craig and Green were so strong together in CR that it's hard to see a new Bond taking up the Vesper mantle.

    This is different than Rigg in OHMSS, which was essentially a one-hander. (The strong echoes of Tracy from DAF through LTK (and possibly TWINE) are all thanks to her, and don't seem tethered to a particular Bond.)

    I can't really see an alternative seeing as much of the Craig era has been about him being middle aged and past his prime. If CR was a self-contained film then there wouldn't be an issue but because its story has since been expanded in subsequent films, the assumption would be that this is the same Bond who later became "out of step" and eventually retired. Unless they cast an actor who's only a couple of years younger than Craig and continue milking that plot point for the next few films, then the only other option is to reboot.

    My prediction is that Bond 26 will be about as much of a reboot as TLD was, in that the actor playing Bond will be much younger and will probably play the part quite differently. They can keep the regulars on but no mention will be made to previous films' events.

    I am really looking forward to how they will handle this. I personally think the best way forward is to go back to the floating timeline. The focus is mainly on the here and now, the past doesn't play a massive role but the things that happened to previous incarnations of Bond have generally happened to this Bond (i.e. Tracy), albeit on an adjusted timeline where needed. Basically: Some stuff has already happened to him, some stuff will happen to him later. We are meeting Bond more or less in the middle of his career/life.
    I do not think the films have to be 100% interchangeable; there can be character development over the tenure of the actor. Don't need that much story connection, however..
  • edited February 16 Posts: 89
    echo wrote: »
    I'm starting to change my mind on whether Bond 26 should be a reboot.

    I previously thought that we don't need another reboot so soon after the last (shades of Spiderman)...but now I wonder, given Craig's age by the time the bloody film gets released, added to the intensely personal nature of Craig's era, *if* it is better to start afresh.

    As an example, is the next Bond going to be pining after/working through his complicated emotions for Vesper? Craig and Green were so strong together in CR that it's hard to see a new Bond taking up the Vesper mantle.

    This is different than Rigg in OHMSS, which was essentially a one-hander. (The strong echoes of Tracy from DAF through LTK (and possibly TWINE) are all thanks to her, and don't seem tethered to a particular Bond.)

    I can't really see an alternative seeing as much of the Craig era has been about him being middle aged and past his prime. If CR was a self-contained film then there wouldn't be an issue but because its story has since been expanded in subsequent films, the assumption would be that this is the same Bond who later became "out of step" and eventually retired. Unless they cast an actor who's only a couple of years younger than Craig and continue milking that plot point for the next few films, then the only other option is to reboot.

    My prediction is that Bond 26 will be about as much of a reboot as TLD was, in that the actor playing Bond will be much younger and will probably play the part quite differently. They can keep the regulars on but no mention will be made to previous films' events.

    I am really looking forward to how they will handle this. I personally think the best way forward is to go back to the floating timeline. The focus is mainly on the here and now, the past doesn't play a massive role but the things that happened to previous incarnations of Bond have generally happened to this Bond (i.e. Tracy), albeit on an adjusted timeline where needed. Basically: Some stuff has already happened to him, some stuff will happen to him later. We are meeting Bond more or less in the middle of his career/life.
    I do not think the films have to be 100% interchangeable; there can be character development over the tenure of the actor. Don't need that much story connection, however..

    That’s what I’m hoping for. If they must have another ongoing arc then they should start it in Bond 26 and go forward from there. I don’t want to hear about the past coming back to haunt people again.
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    edited February 16 Posts: 4,466
    Agreed. I love Eva Green (seriously, who doesn't?) but after Craig, it is time to let Vesper fade into the background.

    I like how they handled Moore-to-Dalton in TLD--his Bond was weary but didn't seem old--and most importantly, they didn't dwell on it beyond the first fifteen minutes.
  • Posts: 497
    My prediction is that Bond 26 will be about as much of a reboot as TLD was, in that the actor playing Bond will be much younger and will probably play the part quite differently. They can keep the regulars on but no mention will be made to previous films' events.

    Even though I agree with you, I can't imagine the next movie keeping as many regulars as TLD did in its time. Between Brown's M, Llewelyn's Q, Frederick Gray and General Gogol, Dalton's Bond was clearly represented as operating in the same world as Moore's. I can't imagine Bond 26 bringing back so many actors from the Craig era.

    In a sense, I have a feeling that as long as the movie doesn't mention the previous movies, it will be seen as a reboot by the general audience, regardless of the direction taken by the creative team. The return of an actor is no longer even a sign of a perpetuation of a continuity since Casino Royale brought Dench back when the film was a reboot.

    In my opinion, the next installment might benefit from renewing the characters, and not just the actors playing them. By that I mean for example the introduction of Loelia Ponsonby, replacing Miss Moneypenny, and avoiding the question of "is or not this the same iteration of the character seen in the Craig era?" The same could easily be done with Q or M, with new people assuming those positions within MI6. A place could of course be made for a former regular if one of the actors wishes to come back but, to be honest, apart from maybe Fiennes, I find it hard to imagine Harris or Whishaw returning.
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    Posts: 4,466
    My prediction is that Bond 26 will be about as much of a reboot as TLD was, in that the actor playing Bond will be much younger and will probably play the part quite differently. They can keep the regulars on but no mention will be made to previous films' events.

    Even though I agree with you, I can't imagine the next movie keeping as many regulars as TLD did in its time. Between Brown's M, Llewelyn's Q, Frederick Gray and General Gogol, Dalton's Bond was clearly represented as operating in the same world as Moore's. I can't imagine Bond 26 bringing back so many actors from the Craig era.

    In a sense, I have a feeling that as long as the movie doesn't mention the previous movies, it will be seen as a reboot by the general audience, regardless of the direction taken by the creative team. The return of an actor is no longer even a sign of a perpetuation of a continuity since Casino Royale brought Dench back when the film was a reboot.

    In my opinion, the next installment might benefit from renewing the characters, and not just the actors playing them. By that I mean for example the introduction of Loelia Ponsonby, replacing Miss Moneypenny, and avoiding the question of "is or not this the same iteration of the character seen in the Craig era?" The same could easily be done with Q or M, with new people assuming those positions within MI6. A place could of course be made for a former regular if one of the actors wishes to come back but, to be honest, apart from maybe Fiennes, I find it hard to imagine Harris or Whishaw returning.

    I know they've tried to bring Ponsonby in but if they're going to have a secretary character, Eon knows the audience will be looking for Moneypenny.

    Harris is the de facto Bond ambassador at this point. She represents the brand.

    If Fiennes returns, I'll bet she does too.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 8,381
    Yes it's hard to see much point in Ponsonby: Bond meeting two secretaries and flirting with them in similar offices in the same building might get a bit repetitive.
  • ImpertinentGoonImpertinentGoon Everybody needs a hobby.
    Posts: 610
    mtm wrote: »
    Yes it's hard to see much point in Ponsonby: Bond meeting two secretaries and flirting with them in similar offices in the same building might get a bit repetitive.

    True. The one thing I could see would be that they move film Moneypenny closer to comics Moneypenny where she is more a bodyguard disguised as an assistant than actual assistant/secretary. Which is not that far off the Naomi Harris version anyway. And even then you still have two women Bond flirts with at headquarters, so nothing gained.

    This also brings us back to the question of more home/office life in the films. Ponsonby kind of only makes sense if you get scene(s) in Bond's own office. In the books those are often used for exposition dumps where Bond reads some background memo or personell file on something or somebody that will be relevant in the adventure to come. In the films, you have to re-purpose that into conversations and briefings, which in turn happen either in M's office or conference rooms, which are Moneypenny's domain or in section Q or in transit/on location...

    I still cling on to the idea that the 00-section could be fleshed out more (we'll see what NTTD brings to the table) and the shared office of the 00s with Leolia in the front room could be a way to get there.

    But in the end, Moneypenny is so iconic and the characters indeed quite similar, it would probably be too confusing.
  • I follow Rian Johnson on Twitter and lately he’s been making and liking a number of Bond related tweets. I’m assuming it’s just because he’s a fan, but he does have a good relationship with Craig as well. I wonder if he might be considered as a potential director for Bond 26 down the road?
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 8,381
    I follow Rian Johnson on Twitter and lately he’s been making and liking a number of Bond related tweets. I’m assuming it’s just because he’s a fan, but he does have a good relationship with Craig as well. I wonder if he might be considered as a potential director for Bond 26 down the road?

    I don't know where I stand on him: on one hand I'm one of those who think he did a pretty terrible job with Star Wars and made it very dreary and turgid; but on the other hand I love Knives Out which he made fantastically, and with a light touch.
    So if he made a Bond film would that be good news? I don't know! :D
  • mtm wrote: »
    I follow Rian Johnson on Twitter and lately he’s been making and liking a number of Bond related tweets. I’m assuming it’s just because he’s a fan, but he does have a good relationship with Craig as well. I wonder if he might be considered as a potential director for Bond 26 down the road?

    I don't know where I stand on him: on one hand I'm one of those who think he did a pretty terrible job with Star Wars and made it very dreary and turgid; but on the other hand I love Knives Out which he made fantastically, and with a light touch.
    So if he made a Bond film would that be good news? I don't know! :D

    I’m generally pretty favorable on him but he’s not a director who immediately jumps to mind for Bond, but maybe that could lead to something interesting? He could be good fit for a smaller scale Bond centered around intrigue and with a good dose of humor. It sounds like he’s been (re)reading the Bond books recently so maybe something that sticks closer to the source.
  • ImpertinentGoonImpertinentGoon Everybody needs a hobby.
    edited February 27 Posts: 610
    He would certainly do something memorable. Whether that memory is a positive one or not would remain to be seen, but I don't think he could do a "Bond by the numbers". I would welcome him, I think he is a great Story-Teller.

    Is there any indication what his Bond tastes are? I remember seeing something he posted about how people who haven't read the novels don't understand how much they are about food, which is true and something that I think would make a nice Easter egg.


    As an aside: Wha would it take for Dalton, Brosnan or Craig to do an in-character travel/food programme about the locations they visited in their respective films. If Apple or Netflix buy MGM, I want that as the first side project.
    Or all three of them a la The Trip.
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    Posts: 4,466
    I doubt Craig would do it, but I'd love to see the Dalton-Brosnan duo visiting Gibraltar, Puerto Rico, etc.
  • edited March 15 Posts: 4,344
    I was thinking about this earlier this week. The Bond franchise tends to follow trends. You can see this in the Craig-era (most noticeably in how the Bourne and Nolan films influenced certain entries). However, the Bond genre is very well-defined in itself. The question is what shape does it take moving forward.

    I could certainly see Eon trying to emulate Marvel and make the films more 'jokey.' Perhaps getting someone like Paul King, Edgar Wright or Taika Waititi (all three would be terrific).

    Though, the recent 'The Batman' and 'Dune' trailers feel like they are setting the tone moving forward. I get the impression that Eon will feel more inclined to follow their lead. I think we are already seeing that with Cary Fukunaga's involvement in NTTD. I think they will want to push more into that A24 territory. Make it younger, edgier, and cooler (much like how they did in 2006 when I was 16. Now they need a new era of 16 year-olds on board).

    n2LJkkvIVYwY.gif

    I think there is clearly a young audience ready for a new Bond. The glamorous, aspirational and exotic tone is very suited to the Instagram crowd. Another generation of Bond fans in the making.

    IMG-7615-1_d_0_0_882.20181107154132.jpg
    2B8286FE00000578-0-image-m-7_1440042722450.jpg
    EwhQRegVEAMp0SS?format=jpg&name=medium
  • Hahaha Pierce2Daniel. This is good name. Two great James Bond men. I’m am not agreeing with you in your writing. James Bond not follow trend. James Bond is trend. My go to movie for James Bond. For Marvel. For Stars War. Mr. Sean Connery begin funny line in early James Bond film. Then being copy by all other. Also film Dune not be so good I am thinking. I have seen early small promotions movie and look boring. Actor in Dune not being big star me think.
  • FatherValentineFatherValentine England
    Posts: 712
    Hahaha Pierce2Daniel. This is good name. Two great James Bond men. I’m am not agreeing with you in your writing. James Bond not follow trend. James Bond is trend. My go to movie for James Bond. For Marvel. For Stars War. Mr. Sean Connery begin funny line in early James Bond film. Then being copy by all other. Also film Dune not be so good I am thinking. I have seen early small promotions movie and look boring. Actor in Dune not being big star me think.

    When you first started posting on here you didn't write like this. So why are you doing so now?
  • CraigMooreOHMSSCraigMooreOHMSS Dublin, Ireland
    Posts: 6,470
    Hahaha Pierce2Daniel. This is good name. Two great James Bond men. I’m am not agreeing with you in your writing. James Bond not follow trend. James Bond is trend. My go to movie for James Bond. For Marvel. For Stars War. Mr. Sean Connery begin funny line in early James Bond film. Then being copy by all other. Also film Dune not be so good I am thinking. I have seen early small promotions movie and look boring. Actor in Dune not being big star me think.

    When you first started posting on here you didn't write like this. So why are you doing so now?

    Yeah, he/she is taking the p*ss now.
  • FatherValentineFatherValentine England
    Posts: 712
    Hahaha Pierce2Daniel. This is good name. Two great James Bond men. I’m am not agreeing with you in your writing. James Bond not follow trend. James Bond is trend. My go to movie for James Bond. For Marvel. For Stars War. Mr. Sean Connery begin funny line in early James Bond film. Then being copy by all other. Also film Dune not be so good I am thinking. I have seen early small promotions movie and look boring. Actor in Dune not being big star me think.

    When you first started posting on here you didn't write like this. So why are you doing so now?

    Yeah, he/she is taking the p*ss now.

    Yup. Not that I mind, really. Just thought I'd ask why.
  • Posts: 3,771
    Was suspicious of him/her from the beginning!!
  • QsCatQsCat London
    Posts: 158
    Haha I find General Graves entertaining. I've looked at his previous comments and don't see any change...
  • I love Villeneuve's films, but I have similar concerns as for Nolan - can they deliver the light-he
    ToTheRight wrote: »
    I'd love so see future Bond women in their 30's or 40's. I always thought Jane Seymour looked amazing in her 40's as did Bellucci at 50.

    They look good for their age but not suited as bond girls.

    Does anyone really want to see any more 50 year old bond girls ? I wouldn't think so.
    Diversity gone crazy again ?

    If Bond can be 20+ years older than his love interest, why
    I was thinking about this earlier this week. The Bond franchise tends to follow trends. You can see this in the Craig-era (most noticeably in how the Bourne and Nolan films influenced certain entries). However, the Bond genre is very well-defined in itself. The question is what shape does it take moving forward.

    I could certainly see Eon trying to emulate Marvel and make the films more 'jokey.' Perhaps getting someone like Paul King, Edgar Wright or Taika Waititi (all three would be terrific).

    Though, the recent 'The Batman' and 'Dune' trailers feel like they are setting the tone moving forward. I get the impression that Eon will feel more inclined to follow their lead. I think we are already seeing that with Cary Fukunaga's involvement in NTTD. I think they will want to push more into that A24 territory. Make it younger, edgier, and cooler (much like how they did in 2006 when I was 16. Now they need a new era of 16 year-olds on board).

    n2LJkkvIVYwY.gif

    I think there is clearly a young audience ready for a new Bond. The glamorous, aspirational and exotic tone is very suited to the Instagram crowd. Another generation of Bond fans in the making.

    IMG-7615-1_d_0_0_882.20181107154132.jpg
    2B8286FE00000578-0-image-m-7_1440042722450.jpg

    Not sure many of us would personally like that approach, but it may very well be inevitable. Bond would not use social media (unless for counterintelligence purposes), but we could see him snowboard and smoke weed. Another consideration is that Bond's audience is increasingly less Anglo-Saxon, more diverse and international. China's box office is poised to be the largest market for a long time. They definitely like their films more flashy. While I doubt that EON would co-produce with Chinese production houses just yet, it's not an impossibility (look at M:I).
  • jake24jake24 Sitting at your desk, kissing your lover, eating supper with your familyModerator
    Posts: 10,544
    Hahaha Pierce2Daniel. This is good name. Two great James Bond men. I’m am not agreeing with you in your writing. James Bond not follow trend. James Bond is trend. My go to movie for James Bond. For Marvel. For Stars War. Mr. Sean Connery begin funny line in early James Bond film. Then being copy by all other. Also film Dune not be so good I am thinking. I have seen early small promotions movie and look boring. Actor in Dune not being big star me think.

    When you first started posting on here you didn't write like this. So why are you doing so now?
    Hi, @FatherValentine. We’re not sure why you decided to create the duplicate account known as @General_Graves, all the while adopting a completely different posting style. A PM has been sent your way.
  • QsCatQsCat London
    Posts: 158
    Eh?! But he just challenged Graves?!
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