Controversial opinions about Bond films

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  • echoecho 007 in New York
    Posts: 4,478
    When I realized Waltz was to be playing Blofeld, however, somehow I knew it was an ill fit. The clash between Mendes and Waltz over their vision for the character sealed Oberhauser's tepid fate as much as did any poorly conceived ideas that found their way into the shooting script.

    It is well known that Waltz wasn't happy with his final Blofeld incarnation. But I didn't read before that there was a clash between him an Mendes. Which source is telling so?

    I don't think this is the first time this came up or the most in depth, but in a recent interview you find linked below Waltz himself said: "I feel more at home with Cary Fukunaga than with Sam Mendes. Fukunaga is insanely analytical and has the technical apparatus in his little finger. He can play on it like a piano and manage the shoot with a self-evident skill. Of course I'm really excited to see the result." and "You know, it's my job, and it was my job before. I see an honorable cause in the conscientious exercise of the profession. I don't always have to agree with a director to do this well. I am only a small believer in conviction."

    Hardly proof of a "clash", but it's clear he isn't happy with his Blofeld.
    Contraband wrote: »
    antovolk wrote: »
    New interview with Waltz in German:

    https://www.gq-magazin.de/entertainment/artikel/christoph-waltz-corona-diese-leute-die-sich-querdenker-nennen-denken-entlang-des-brettes-das-sie-vorm-kopf-haben

    Talks about his thoughts on the rumours of the film going to streaming ('it's as stupid to see Bond on a small screen as it is to see a TV series on the big screen'), praising the hell out of Fukunaga saying he felt more at home working with him than Mendes, and that there was a small screening of the film for the cast in London which he couldn't make...

    de>eng:

    https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=de&tl=en&u=https://www.gq-magazin.de/entertainment/artikel/christoph-waltz-corona-diese-leute-die-sich-querdenker-nennen-denken-entlang-des-brettes-das-sie-vorm-kopf-haben

    It is refreshing that Waltz has such stature and confidence that he can be so open about his feelings toward his directors. Usually everything is "spun."

    Fukunaga seems like a much more controlled director than Mendes (who comes from the theater, and does many, many takes). Whether that results in a better film, nobody knows yet (well, Babs does, but she's not talking).
  • DragonpolDragonpol The Crazy World of David Dragonpol
    Posts: 14,771
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    peter wrote: »
    royale65 wrote: »
    Same as the CGI glacial tsunami para-sailing--Brosnan's abdomen simply shouldn't have been presented on screen.

    He looked great everywhere else. Poor judgment on the part of the filmmakers.

    Maybe they should have GGI'd his Guinness belly away?

    They supposedly did touch-ups (I was told that he had “moobs” that needed taking care of and his waist-line).

    That's very interesting. Never heard that before. It still seems to not have been enough for some of the posters on this thread, however! :)

    If it's true, then it's enough for me. Considering none of the posters you're referring to have actually responded to it, yet, your last sentence is a bit silly though! :)

    No, I was merely using foresight as even though Brosnan had been "nipped and tucked" with CGI in that scene the posters here were still complaining that he looked too well fed. So the fact CGI was used didn't need to be known by them. They still think he's too fat for a POW at that point in the film regardless of whether CGI was used or not.

    I am sorry but this is one of the most idiotic things I have read here. Pierce Brosnan was not fat in Die Another Day. He looks like he does in The World Is Not Enough. He is not fat.
    James Bond film are not real life. They are adventure fantasy film. This is the many reasons the James Bond series is so popular.
    Thank you.

    Did you actually carefully read what I wrote above? It would appear not or that you did not understand what I was saying if you did. I think you've come to the wrong conclusion about what I meant. On the subject of the most idiotic things you've read here you could certainly make a good starting point by rereading your own post...

    I am sorry for my misreading. English is not my first language I’m sorry. I get very angry with so many James Bond member who are horrible to Pierce Brosnan and Die Another Day. I have misreading your post.
    We are all suppose to be liking James Bond. We are among friends of James Bond yes?

    Not to worry. I just thought it was odd how you were reading the exact opposite into what I'd written from what I actually meant to convey. Those are the perils of language I suppose: the risk of misinterpretation. I agree that we are supposed to be liking James Bond here but sometimes criticism is a form of harsh love when it is used constructively.
  • Thank you Mr. Dragonpol. We are friends here I hope.
    Controversial thoughts. Die Another Day is not a very bad James Bond film and Octopussy and AView ToA Kill are many time overrated James Bond film.
  • DragonpolDragonpol The Crazy World of David Dragonpol
    edited February 24 Posts: 14,771
    Thank you Mr. Dragonpol. We are friends here I hope.
    Controversial thoughts. Die Another Day is not a very bad James Bond film and Octopussy and AView ToA Kill are many time overrated James Bond film.

    Here's hoping. Octopussy is one of my favourite Bond films and I don't think many fans would call A View to A Kill overrated. It'd be more in the underrated category I would think. So I'd say those are pretty controversial views, especially valuing Die Another Day over both of them. That's the beauty of Bond, though. Every Bond fan has wildly divergent opinions. I suppose it would get boring if we all liked the same things! To each their own...
  • Posts: 3,847
    Thank you Mr. Dragonpol. We are friends here I hope.
    Controversial thoughts. Die Another Day is not a very bad James Bond film and Octopussy and AView ToA Kill are many time overrated James Bond film.

    Well, we are worlds apart re Bond, as I love OP, probably Moores best, and I abhor DAD, worst Bond movie by a country mile! AVTAK has a lot of good stuff in it, and is still watchable!
  • Posts: 7,093
    Mathis1 wrote: »
    Thank you Mr. Dragonpol. We are friends here I hope.
    Controversial thoughts. Die Another Day is not a very bad James Bond film and Octopussy and AView ToA Kill are many time overrated James Bond film.

    Well, we are worlds apart re Bond, as I love OP, probably Moores best, and I abhor DAD, worst Bond movie by a country mile! AVTAK has a lot of good stuff in it, and is still watchable!

    FYEO and OP are consistently the two films I get the most pleassure from watching in the Moore era. Neither are perfect, but there is so much good stuff there!
  • Posts: 3,847
    jobo wrote: »
    Mathis1 wrote: »
    Thank you Mr. Dragonpol. We are friends here I hope.
    Controversial thoughts. Die Another Day is not a very bad James Bond film and Octopussy and AView ToA Kill are many time overrated James Bond film.

    Well, we are worlds apart re Bond, as I love OP, probably Moores best, and I abhor DAD, worst Bond movie by a country mile! AVTAK has a lot of good stuff in it, and is still watchable!

    FYEO and OP are consistently the two films I get the most pleassure from watching in the Moore era. Neither are perfect, but there is so much good stuff there!

    Agreed AVTAK has a great villain in Zorin, but OP has lots to recommend, and I feel FYEO is due a reappraisal!
  • goldenswissroyalegoldenswissroyale Switzerland
    Posts: 2,907
    When I realized Waltz was to be playing Blofeld, however, somehow I knew it was an ill fit. The clash between Mendes and Waltz over their vision for the character sealed Oberhauser's tepid fate as much as did any poorly conceived ideas that found their way into the shooting script.

    It is well known that Waltz wasn't happy with his final Blofeld incarnation. But I didn't read before that there was a clash between him an Mendes. Which source is telling so?

    I don't think this is the first time this came up or the most in depth, but in a recent interview you find linked below Waltz himself said: "I feel more at home with Cary Fukunaga than with Sam Mendes. Fukunaga is insanely analytical and has the technical apparatus in his little finger. He can play on it like a piano and manage the shoot with a self-evident skill. Of course I'm really excited to see the result." and "You know, it's my job, and it was my job before. I see an honorable cause in the conscientious exercise of the profession. I don't always have to agree with a director to do this well. I am only a small believer in conviction."

    Hardly proof of a "clash", but it's clear he isn't happy with his Blofeld.
    Contraband wrote: »
    antovolk wrote: »
    New interview with Waltz in German:

    https://www.gq-magazin.de/entertainment/artikel/christoph-waltz-corona-diese-leute-die-sich-querdenker-nennen-denken-entlang-des-brettes-das-sie-vorm-kopf-haben

    Talks about his thoughts on the rumours of the film going to streaming ('it's as stupid to see Bond on a small screen as it is to see a TV series on the big screen'), praising the hell out of Fukunaga saying he felt more at home working with him than Mendes, and that there was a small screening of the film for the cast in London which he couldn't make...

    de>eng:

    https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=de&tl=en&u=https://www.gq-magazin.de/entertainment/artikel/christoph-waltz-corona-diese-leute-die-sich-querdenker-nennen-denken-entlang-des-brettes-das-sie-vorm-kopf-haben

    Thanks for the informative reply @ImpertinentGoon. I didn't know that and this sounds like another (of endless) reasons why I want to see NTTD.
  • Posts: 13,263
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    echo wrote: »
    echo wrote: »
    SP had the misfortune to follow SF, as well as the Sony leaks. There are other issues (casting, chemistry, the still-shocking underuse of Monica Bellucci). Seriously, the film needed a lot more Bellucci.

    It remains to be seen if SP's reputation will grow in coming years, but I'm hoping NTTD will bolster it.

    I don't know if I'd necessarily agree it was misfortune, unless we're talking strictly about the leaks which definitely coloured many people's opinion of the film before it even came out.

    However, creatively and conceptually, SF gave them free reign to go and tell any sort of story that they wanted to. It really couldn't have been any more ideal for them going forward. However, the story they chose to tell in SP is fundamentally misguided and dramatically inert. If NTTD manages to retroactively improve it, then that will be quite an astonishing achievement.

    Agree about Bellucci though - more of her rarely makes a film worse. ;)

    I agree about the story. It seems that they had a better idea for Blofeld (the African warlord who appalled White) that got pushed to the wayside.

    They could have done so much more with Bellucci. She could have been the sacrificial lamb, the wife/girlfriend of Blofeld, or Blofeld herself.

    Oh please no! People complain about "Brofeld", why make things worse by turning Blofeld into something even further away than the source material? An African warlord with a Germanic name? An Italian femme fatale? Please! Why not ditch the "brother" angle altogether and make Blofeld an evil Eastern European man?

    From say, Poland, for example? 8-}

    Hey why not? Heck I'd go for Austrian as the original Blofeld had Germanic blood.

    As far as I can recall the original Blofeld was of Greek and Polish ancestry so I see nothing wrong with a Polish actor portraying him. That would be perfect casting, actually. Telly Savalas had the Greek ancestry at least and he remains the most faithful incarnation we've seen in the Bond films thus far. Blofeld should have an Eastern European accent in my book and be suitably "foreign other" in the classic British thriller sense.

    I'd rather have that, and have him of middle age, not a young un. But I'd be okay with a Germanic actor, or a Greek actor, heck I'm happy with the casting of Christoph Waltz all things considered.

    Yes, you're probably right about the Germanic background of Blofeld too. I need to take Thunderball and OHMSS off the shelf to check but I think he was something of a mongrel, shall we say. Fleming also referred to "that lunatic Hitler scream" when describing Blofeld in YOLT and I recall him speaking in German with Irma Bunt in that novel.

    I too am more than happy with the casting of Waltz as Blofeld. On paper, he's a great choice but they should have taken inspiration from the books (specifically TB) where his character and background are well laid down by Fleming over the course of two detailed chapters. The white Persian cat wasn't overused and was introduced rather organically in Spectre. However the origin story of the YOLT facial scar we could have done without I think. It would be rather novel for them to follow the books for once when it comes to Blofeld. We've never exactly seen the Fleming Blofeld on screen, although Telly Savalas was the closest to it.

    That is/was my dream: a Blofeld with a similar background to the novels'.

    Controversial opinion: I'm all for the return of unknown veteran actors to play villains.
  • DragonpolDragonpol The Crazy World of David Dragonpol
    edited February 24 Posts: 14,771
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    echo wrote: »
    echo wrote: »
    SP had the misfortune to follow SF, as well as the Sony leaks. There are other issues (casting, chemistry, the still-shocking underuse of Monica Bellucci). Seriously, the film needed a lot more Bellucci.

    It remains to be seen if SP's reputation will grow in coming years, but I'm hoping NTTD will bolster it.

    I don't know if I'd necessarily agree it was misfortune, unless we're talking strictly about the leaks which definitely coloured many people's opinion of the film before it even came out.

    However, creatively and conceptually, SF gave them free reign to go and tell any sort of story that they wanted to. It really couldn't have been any more ideal for them going forward. However, the story they chose to tell in SP is fundamentally misguided and dramatically inert. If NTTD manages to retroactively improve it, then that will be quite an astonishing achievement.

    Agree about Bellucci though - more of her rarely makes a film worse. ;)

    I agree about the story. It seems that they had a better idea for Blofeld (the African warlord who appalled White) that got pushed to the wayside.

    They could have done so much more with Bellucci. She could have been the sacrificial lamb, the wife/girlfriend of Blofeld, or Blofeld herself.

    Oh please no! People complain about "Brofeld", why make things worse by turning Blofeld into something even further away than the source material? An African warlord with a Germanic name? An Italian femme fatale? Please! Why not ditch the "brother" angle altogether and make Blofeld an evil Eastern European man?

    From say, Poland, for example? 8-}

    Hey why not? Heck I'd go for Austrian as the original Blofeld had Germanic blood.

    As far as I can recall the original Blofeld was of Greek and Polish ancestry so I see nothing wrong with a Polish actor portraying him. That would be perfect casting, actually. Telly Savalas had the Greek ancestry at least and he remains the most faithful incarnation we've seen in the Bond films thus far. Blofeld should have an Eastern European accent in my book and be suitably "foreign other" in the classic British thriller sense.

    I'd rather have that, and have him of middle age, not a young un. But I'd be okay with a Germanic actor, or a Greek actor, heck I'm happy with the casting of Christoph Waltz all things considered.

    Yes, you're probably right about the Germanic background of Blofeld too. I need to take Thunderball and OHMSS off the shelf to check but I think he was something of a mongrel, shall we say. Fleming also referred to "that lunatic Hitler scream" when describing Blofeld in YOLT and I recall him speaking in German with Irma Bunt in that novel.

    I too am more than happy with the casting of Waltz as Blofeld. On paper, he's a great choice but they should have taken inspiration from the books (specifically TB) where his character and background are well laid down by Fleming over the course of two detailed chapters. The white Persian cat wasn't overused and was introduced rather organically in Spectre. However the origin story of the YOLT facial scar we could have done without I think. It would be rather novel for them to follow the books for once when it comes to Blofeld. We've never exactly seen the Fleming Blofeld on screen, although Telly Savalas was the closest to it.

    That is/was my dream: a Blofeld with a similar background to the novels'.

    Controversial opinion: I'm all for the return of unknown veteran actors to play villains.

    It was my dream too. That they'd return to the Blofeld of the novels. No bald head, no stroking of the white cat and no sitting plotting in a chair for most of the film. Just a chance to start over and reaffirm the character for a new age of Bond films more faithful to the source material. To be fair they did at least adapt in part the novel Thunderball in Spectre. However, the inclusion of the material from 'Octopussy' married to the scriptwriters' soap opera like background for the relationship between Blofeld and Bond was much less welcome!
  • When I realized Waltz was to be playing Blofeld, however, somehow I knew it was an ill fit. The clash between Mendes and Waltz over their vision for the character sealed Oberhauser's tepid fate as much as did any poorly conceived ideas that found their way into the shooting script.

    It is well known that Waltz wasn't happy with his final Blofeld incarnation. But I didn't read before that there was a clash between him an Mendes. Which source is telling so?

    By clash, I meant difference in opinions, not that they necessarily had any kind of fight or argument. Waltz spoke about working with Mendes in multiple interviews a few years ago. Here's one of his quotes, though this one only suggests they weren't on the same page: "I cannot claim that I’ve really nailed Blofeld. Overall, it held water and was O.K. But it wasn’t what I’ve been looking for. I was searching for more inspiration. An actor can only be really good when there are shared possibilities."
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython "I want you looking FABULOUS."
    Posts: 4,774
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Controversial opinion: I'm all for the return of unknown veteran actors to play villains.

    Would be interesting. Ever since the 80s it's like EON has felt the need to cast prolific character actors as the villain, especially if they won various awards. Though Robert Davi was a notable exception.
  • Mathis1 wrote: »
    Thank you Mr. Dragonpol. We are friends here I hope.
    Controversial thoughts. Die Another Day is not a very bad James Bond film and Octopussy and AView ToA Kill are many time overrated James Bond film.

    Well, we are worlds apart re Bond, as I love OP, probably Moores best, and I abhor DAD, worst Bond movie by a country mile! AVTAK has a lot of good stuff in it, and is still watchable!

    I think you are wrong sir. But I will disagree to agree.
    We can be amongst James Bond friends I hope. If we do not see agreement we can still be friendly.
    Thank you
  • Posts: 13,263
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Controversial opinion: I'm all for the return of unknown veteran actors to play villains.

    Would be interesting. Ever since the 80s it's like EON has felt the need to cast prolific character actors as the villain, especially if they won various awards. Though Robert Davi was a notable exception.

    I'd say both Mads Mikkelsen and Mathieu Amalric were, when cast, fairly unknown veteran actors.
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    echo wrote: »
    echo wrote: »
    SP had the misfortune to follow SF, as well as the Sony leaks. There are other issues (casting, chemistry, the still-shocking underuse of Monica Bellucci). Seriously, the film needed a lot more Bellucci.

    It remains to be seen if SP's reputation will grow in coming years, but I'm hoping NTTD will bolster it.

    I don't know if I'd necessarily agree it was misfortune, unless we're talking strictly about the leaks which definitely coloured many people's opinion of the film before it even came out.

    However, creatively and conceptually, SF gave them free reign to go and tell any sort of story that they wanted to. It really couldn't have been any more ideal for them going forward. However, the story they chose to tell in SP is fundamentally misguided and dramatically inert. If NTTD manages to retroactively improve it, then that will be quite an astonishing achievement.

    Agree about Bellucci though - more of her rarely makes a film worse. ;)

    I agree about the story. It seems that they had a better idea for Blofeld (the African warlord who appalled White) that got pushed to the wayside.

    They could have done so much more with Bellucci. She could have been the sacrificial lamb, the wife/girlfriend of Blofeld, or Blofeld herself.

    Oh please no! People complain about "Brofeld", why make things worse by turning Blofeld into something even further away than the source material? An African warlord with a Germanic name? An Italian femme fatale? Please! Why not ditch the "brother" angle altogether and make Blofeld an evil Eastern European man?

    From say, Poland, for example? 8-}

    Hey why not? Heck I'd go for Austrian as the original Blofeld had Germanic blood.

    As far as I can recall the original Blofeld was of Greek and Polish ancestry so I see nothing wrong with a Polish actor portraying him. That would be perfect casting, actually. Telly Savalas had the Greek ancestry at least and he remains the most faithful incarnation we've seen in the Bond films thus far. Blofeld should have an Eastern European accent in my book and be suitably "foreign other" in the classic British thriller sense.

    I'd rather have that, and have him of middle age, not a young un. But I'd be okay with a Germanic actor, or a Greek actor, heck I'm happy with the casting of Christoph Waltz all things considered.

    Yes, you're probably right about the Germanic background of Blofeld too. I need to take Thunderball and OHMSS off the shelf to check but I think he was something of a mongrel, shall we say. Fleming also referred to "that lunatic Hitler scream" when describing Blofeld in YOLT and I recall him speaking in German with Irma Bunt in that novel.

    I too am more than happy with the casting of Waltz as Blofeld. On paper, he's a great choice but they should have taken inspiration from the books (specifically TB) where his character and background are well laid down by Fleming over the course of two detailed chapters. The white Persian cat wasn't overused and was introduced rather organically in Spectre. However the origin story of the YOLT facial scar we could have done without I think. It would be rather novel for them to follow the books for once when it comes to Blofeld. We've never exactly seen the Fleming Blofeld on screen, although Telly Savalas was the closest to it.

    That is/was my dream: a Blofeld with a similar background to the novels'.

    Controversial opinion: I'm all for the return of unknown veteran actors to play villains.

    It was my dream too. That they'd return to the Blofeld of the novels. No bald head, no stroking of the white cat and no sitting plotting in a chair for most of the film. Just a chance to start over and reaffirm the character for a new age of Bond films more faithful to the source material. To be fair they did at least adapt in part the novel Thunderball in Spectre. However, the inclusion of the material from 'Octopussy' married to the scriptwriters' soap opera like background for the relationship between Blofeld and Bond was much less welcome!

    Other controversial opinion: I would not have minded Blofeld killing Oberhauser in the past, in circumstances akin to the original short story, sort of taking the role of Dexter Smythe. Blofeld could have used the gold as investment funds to build Spectre. Coincidental, yes, but nothing unbelievable, no more no less implausible than the original short story.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython "I want you looking FABULOUS."
    Posts: 4,774
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Controversial opinion: I'm all for the return of unknown veteran actors to play villains.

    Would be interesting. Ever since the 80s it's like EON has felt the need to cast prolific character actors as the villain, especially if they won various awards. Though Robert Davi was a notable exception.

    I'd say both Mads Mikkelsen and Mathieu Amalric were, when cast, fairly unknown veteran actors.

    Probably outside their home countries they’re “unknown”, but they were already award winning actors by the time they did Bond, which is what EON is going for these days.

    Contrast that to Robert Davi in 1989.
  • Ludovico wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Controversial opinion: I'm all for the return of unknown veteran actors to play villains.

    Would be interesting. Ever since the 80s it's like EON has felt the need to cast prolific character actors as the villain, especially if they won various awards. Though Robert Davi was a notable exception.

    I'd say both Mads Mikkelsen and Mathieu Amalric were, when cast, fairly unknown veteran actors.

    Probably outside their home countries they’re “unknown”, but they were already award winning actors by the time they did Bond, which is what EON is going for these days.

    Contrast that to Robert Davi in 1989.

    What about the wonderful Mr. Toby Stephens who was Gustav Graves in the film Die Another Day.
    An actor who at the time I understand had no awards for him acting.
    Him being an forgotten great villain by many I feel.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython "I want you looking FABULOUS."
    Posts: 4,774
    Ah true, I forgot of him. Stephens is kinda an outlier too I suppose, given he followed big actors like Bean, Pryce, and Carlyle
  • Posts: 13,263
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Controversial opinion: I'm all for the return of unknown veteran actors to play villains.

    Would be interesting. Ever since the 80s it's like EON has felt the need to cast prolific character actors as the villain, especially if they won various awards. Though Robert Davi was a notable exception.

    I'd say both Mads Mikkelsen and Mathieu Amalric were, when cast, fairly unknown veteran actors.

    Probably outside their home countries they’re “unknown”, but they were already award winning actors by the time they did Bond, which is what EON is going for these days.

    Contrast that to Robert Davi in 1989.

    What about the wonderful Mr. Toby Stephens who was Gustav Graves in the film Die Another Day.
    An actor who at the time I understand had no awards for him acting.
    Him being an forgotten great villain by many I feel.

    Forgotten I wished. Great villain sadly not. Forgettable yes, absolutely.

    @MakeshiftPython they were both relatively unknown internationally.
  • GoldenGunGoldenGun Per ora e il momento che verrà
    Posts: 5,604
    @Ludovico Depends on one's definition of 'international' I suppose. Sophie Marceau was already huge in the French-speaking world as well as amongst film fans whose interest go beyond English-language films. Moreover, she did appear in Braveheart as the main female co-star so she wouldn't have been completely unknown even to "Hollywood-only's".
  • DragonpolDragonpol The Crazy World of David Dragonpol
    edited February 25 Posts: 14,771
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Controversial opinion: I'm all for the return of unknown veteran actors to play villains.

    Would be interesting. Ever since the 80s it's like EON has felt the need to cast prolific character actors as the villain, especially if they won various awards. Though Robert Davi was a notable exception.

    I'd say both Mads Mikkelsen and Mathieu Amalric were, when cast, fairly unknown veteran actors.

    Probably outside their home countries they’re “unknown”, but they were already award winning actors by the time they did Bond, which is what EON is going for these days.

    Contrast that to Robert Davi in 1989.

    Are you saying Robert Davi wasn't as well known in the US or internationally at the time he did Licence to Kill or rather that he wasn't at that time award-winning? I'm not disputing what you're saying. I'm just genuinely curious as I don't really know for sure one way or the other. Would like to hear more from you on this, @MakeshiftPython.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Enemy of the state
    Posts: 41,656
    Davi wasn t well known at the time, just as "that guy from that film".
  • Posts: 13,263
    GoldenGun wrote: »
    @Ludovico Depends on one's definition of 'international' I suppose. Sophie Marceau was already huge in the French-speaking world as well as amongst film fans whose interest go beyond English-language films. Moreover, she did appear in Braveheart as the main female co-star so she wouldn't have been completely unknown even to "Hollywood-only's".

    True, but she was not say Julia Roberts or Nicole Kidman. With the last three main villains now, including NTTD, you have Oscar winning actors. I think it would be nice to have a veteran actor that is relatively unknown.
  • suavejmfsuavejmf Harrogate, North Yorkshire, England
    Posts: 5,131
    Revelator wrote: »
    I wasn't happy about Waltz's casting when it was announced and the end result did nothing to change my mind. EON hasn't had much luck in casting Oscar winners and hoping they'll repeat their magic. NTTD might prove an exception, as Bardem did in Skyfall. Waltz's prior performances had already edged very close to camp, and the minute Blofeld goes camp he loses all credibility as a supervillain. If you're going to re-establish him in the 21st century as a seriously threatening villain, for a mass audience mostly too young to be nostalgic about the character, it's better to cast an actor who doesn't have an established image, rather than someone whose screen persona has become so familiar that Saturday Night Live jokes about it on Celebrity Jeopardy. In the past EON was able to brilliantly cast supervillains from under-the-radar character actors (Joseph Wiseman) and out-of-left-field entertainers (Lotte Lenya) and come up with surprising and effective results. In Spectre Walzt was cast in a role that wasn't fully thought out and had to fall back on his mannerisms. That's symptomatic of the overall tiredness and laziness of Spectre, a film more content to reshuffle cliches than rethink them.

    This post nails it!!
  • I'm trying to remember an onscreen iteration of Blofeld that wasn't campy, and I'm drawing a blank... :-?
  • DragonpolDragonpol The Crazy World of David Dragonpol
    edited February 25 Posts: 14,771
    I'm trying to remember an onscreen iteration of Blofeld that wasn't campy, and I'm drawing a blank... :-?

    Telly Savalas is surely one at least. I don't think you could call his Blofeld campy, could you?!
  • Posts: 13,263
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    I'm trying to remember an onscreen iteration of Blofeld that wasn't campy, and I'm drawing a blank... :-?

    Telly Savalas is surely one at least. I don't think you could call his Blofeld campy, could you?!

    He wasn't campy, but there was something lacking.
  • I'm fine with camp: Gray and Waltz are my favorite Blofelds. But they're all pretty camp. Brainwashing babes and giving them poison makeup kits is fairly camp. As is unbuttoning your shirt a bit as you fall for Tracy's obvious romantic ruse. It's all lovely, but certainly camp-adjacent at the very least!
  • suavejmfsuavejmf Harrogate, North Yorkshire, England
    Posts: 5,131
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    I'm trying to remember an onscreen iteration of Blofeld that wasn't campy, and I'm drawing a blank... :-?

    Telly Savalas is surely one at least. I don't think you could call his Blofeld campy, could you?!

    He’s the best Blofeld so far by a Country mile. He has the physical preference that the Blofeld of the books had.
  • ImpertinentGoonImpertinentGoon Everybody needs a hobby.
    Posts: 616
    Again we're at the point where we alhavr to ask ourselves what we mean with the word camp. If we just want to use it as a nicer way of saying bad, no Savalas isn't that. If we mean silly, we're maybe getting closer. The set-up is. The performance not really. If we mean a general sense of things being over the top, style over substance (which is the way I prefer to use the term) then there is some camp in Savalas' Blofeld. Again, more the script and production than the actual performance, but there is stuff like his smoking that is out there.
  • edited February 25 Posts: 2,310
    Camp is when things get too silly and over-the-top to involve any emotional involvement beyond amusement. A Bond film by nature will have an assortment of implausible things--but implausibility doesn't necessarily mean camp. Gray's Blofeld is camp he doesn't have any menace, or chilling qualities as a villain, unlike Savalas, who more than conveys gangsterism. Waltz's Blofeld combines excessive mannerisms with all the Dr. Evil clichés of the previous Blofelds. When the Bond films engage in excessive self-parody that's also camp.
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