Reunion with Death - early third Dalton treatment?

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  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 8,833
    BT3366 wrote: »
    McTiernan is a nice fantasy choice. But that was back when Eon had that strange rule of only hiring British directors. I can never quite understand that given the producers were American and there were numerous American writers.

    Yeah I don't get that either.
  • RoadphillRoadphill United Kingdom
    Posts: 973
    Escalus5 wrote: »
    You may also recall the film Christopher Columbus: The Discovery (1992) and Dalton dropping out when Glen replaced the planned director.

    It was much more complicated than that. Dalton had it in his contract that he would have to be consulted if the producers wished to replace the director. The notorious producers Alexander & Ilya Salkind fired George Cosmatos and replaced him with Glen without Dalton's input, and then they didn't provide a bank guarantee for Dalton's salary. So one would assume that Dalton's exit had more to do with the Salkinds (who he ended up suing) than Glen.

    I think it's incredible that EON even considered hiring John Landis to replace Glen on LTK (Landis's actions on the set of TWILIGHT ZONE were irresponsible and downright criminal). In the interview in The Lost Adventures of James Bond, Landis reveals that he considered the script beneath him, which I find funny considering the junk that he committed to later.

    The genius behind The Three Amigos and The Honey I Shrunk The Kids TV show thought Bond was beneath him? Good, bloody grief.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited January 22 Posts: 8,833
    Three Amigos is alright, isn't it? Plus y'know, actual celebrated classics like Blues Brothers, American Werewolf in London, Trading Places etc.
  • Posts: 4,046
    Am not sure that's true. Landis claims he thought the script "was lousy"! it was his previous experience with EON, being a possible screenwriter of TSWLM, that he was approached about LTK.
    He does speak highly of Dalton, and met him, and seems to have got on well with Cubby.
    I was more amused about novelist Anthony Burgess involvement with EON. He came up with a story about The Pope being kidnapped!!🤣
  • edited January 22 Posts: 565
    Cubby: "Glen's done four movies. We should look for someone different. What about that Landis kid? What's he been doing?"

    MGW: "Well, he got three people killed on a film set, including two minors who were employed in violation of child labor laws."

    Cubby: "Right, okay. What's Ted Kotcheff been doing?"

    That's how the conversation should have gone.
  • mattjoesmattjoes Me lleva el chanfle
    Posts: 4,732
    Risico007 wrote: »
    I kind of wish this film was given the title Risico..
    I would have preferred the title 'mattjoes', but that's just my opinion.

    ---

    I have yet to listen to the Reunion with Death podcast, but the Wilson-Ruggiero treatment is pretty cool. Given the nature of the story, the idea of the girl who turns out to be a robot is not entirely out of place, though it's clearly too fantastical for a Bond film, even in a franchise in which there have been space lazer (sic) battles.
  • ChriskarrChriskarr Spain
    Posts: 44
    Wilson and Ruggiero wrote a complete script based on their own draft. Where will there be a copy?
  • suavejmfsuavejmf Harrogate, North Yorkshire, England
    Posts: 5,131
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    Mack_Bolan wrote: »
    Dalton made a wise decision quitting the role of James Bond.

    Just curious as to why you think that? For me, he's the best of the Bond actors, and the closest to Fleming to boot. To my mind, Dalton had a lot going for him.

    Agreed.

    But the third script that has surfaced in recent years, with robots and an actual cyborg henchwoman sounded worse than DAD.
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    Posts: 4,526
    Chriskarr wrote: »
    Wilson and Ruggiero wrote a complete script based on their own draft. Where will there be a copy?

    Buried in the vault at Eon, for possible use in future films.
  • ChriskarrChriskarr Spain
    Posts: 44
    echo wrote: »
    Chriskarr wrote: »
    Wilson and Ruggiero wrote a complete script based on their own draft. Where will there be a copy?

    Buried in the vault at Eon, for possible use in future films.
    Take a look
    https://propstoreauction.com/view-auctions/catalog/id/26/lot/3381/JAMES-BOND-BOND-17-Draft-Screenplay
  • Posts: 111
    The new Lost Adventures of Bond book goes into the most detail I’ve ever seen on the abandoned third Dalton film treatments plus the original prequel idea for The Living Daylights. It’s essential for anyone who has ever wondered like me and dreamed of what didn’t happen.

    As for my what if dream third Dalton scenario:
    Timothy Dalton as James Bond in THE SCREAM OF A ROSE
    Written by Richard Maibaum (one last hurrah before his passing)
    Edited by Peter Hunt (he returned to editing in the early 90’s)
    Score by John Barry (coming off his Dances with Wolves success)
    Title song by Depeche Mode (coming off their landmark Violator and to be honest they should have done a Bond theme years ago)
    Directed by John Frankenheimer (one of the truly great directors who was experiencing a comeback that began on 52 Pick Up and would culminate in Ronin. He knew how to do action, spy dramas and generate phenomenal performances.)

    Thinking of this with Dalton in the lead makes me weep at the what could have beens.
  • DragonpolDragonpol Writer @ http://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    edited February 1 Posts: 14,971
    The new Lost Adventures of Bond book goes into the most detail I’ve ever seen on the abandoned third Dalton film treatments plus the original prequel idea for The Living Daylights. It’s essential for anyone who has ever wondered like me and dreamed of what didn’t happen.

    As for my what if dream third Dalton scenario:
    Timothy Dalton as James Bond in THE SCREAM OF A ROSE
    Written by Richard Maibaum (one last hurrah before his passing)
    Edited by Peter Hunt (he returned to editing in the early 90’s)
    Score by John Barry (coming off his Dances with Wolves success)
    Title song by Depeche Mode (coming off their landmark Violator and to be honest they should have done a Bond theme years ago)
    Directed by John Frankenheimer (one of the truly great directors who was experiencing a comeback that began on 52 Pick Up and would culminate in Ronin. He knew how to do action, spy dramas and generate phenomenal performances.)

    Thinking of this with Dalton in the lead makes me weep at the what could have beens.

    That title could be an adaptation of John Gardner's Never Send Flowers (1993). Dalton would've been perfect for that one. 💐 ;)
  • edited February 1 Posts: 4,046
    The new Lost Adventures of Bond book goes into the most detail I’ve ever seen on the abandoned third Dalton film treatments plus the original prequel idea for The Living Daylights. It’s essential for anyone who has ever wondered like me and dreamed of what didn’t happen.

    As for my what if dream third Dalton scenario:
    Timothy Dalton as James Bond in THE SCREAM OF A ROSE
    Written by Richard Maibaum (one last hurrah before his passing)
    Edited by Peter Hunt (he returned to editing in the early 90’s)
    Score by John Barry (coming off his Dances with Wolves success)
    Title song by Depeche Mode (coming off their landmark Violator and to be honest they should have done a Bond theme years ago)
    Directed by John Frankenheimer (one of the truly great directors who was experiencing a comeback that began on 52 Pick Up and would culminate in Ronin. He knew how to do action, spy dramas and generate phenomenal performances.)

    Thinking of this with Dalton in the lead makes me weep at the what could have beens.

    I like your thinking, (especially Depeche Mode!) but, as a huge fan of John Frankenheimar, i dont think he would have been a right fit for Bond!
  • Posts: 566
    Mathis1 wrote: »
    As a huge fan of John Frankenheimar, i dont think he would have been a right fit for Bond!

    Without being myself a big fan of this director, while liking many of his movies (Birdman of Alcatraz, The Manchurian Candidate, Black Sunday), it seems to me that at the end of the 80s, he seemed as a perfect candidate to take up the torch from John Glen. Between The Holcroft Covenant and The Fourth War, he was still in a spy thriller mood and, as his experience, even if unfortunate, on The Island of Dr. Moreau will show, he was ready to direct a blockbuster.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 8,833
    Holcroft is a shocking mess though! :)
  • Posts: 13,358
    MaxCasino wrote: »
    I just think that Dalton needed a new director. It was for the best that John Glen walked after LTK, Dalton would have been stronger with a new director. Several actors have spoken about how John Glen was weak with them (in the book The Many Lives of James Bond by Mark Edlitz).

    It's probably for the Controversial thread, but I think Dalton and Glen were the most mismatched duo of the whole franchise and Dalton needed a more character driven director.
  • Posts: 566
    Ludovico wrote: »
    It's probably for the Controversial thread, but I think Dalton and Glen were the most mismatched duo of the whole franchise and Dalton needed a more character driven director.
    I very much agree. Roger Spottiswoode revealed he was offered the opportunity to direct an installment during Dalton's tenure, I'm not sure if he specified if it was LTK or Bond 17, but, considering his work on Under Fire in '84 and, moreover, on TND, I think he would have been a good pick for TLD. Of course, I would have dreamed of seeing John McTiernan and would probably have done wonders with Dalton as the star.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 8,833
    It's interesting how many other directors (Ted Kotcheff is another) were approached for LTK. I wonder why they went with Glen again if they were looking around so much?
  • Posts: 566
    mtm wrote: »
    It's interesting how many other directors (Ted Kotcheff is another) were approached for LTK.
    I didn't know about Kotcheff, I thought he was approached for Bond 17. I would have been curious to see his take on the series. I guess his direction would have been more down to earth and at this point would have been consistent with the LTK narrative.
  • Posts: 2,361
    Ludovico wrote: »
    It's probably for the Controversial thread, but I think Dalton and Glen were the most mismatched duo of the whole franchise and Dalton needed a more character driven director.

    It's not as if Dalton's performances in either of his films were short on character though. Given how limited the budgets and resources were, Glen worked well with what he was given. The nadir of his direction was AVTAK, and he evidently revitalized by working with a new Bond. Given how soulless and mechanical TND was, I don't think someone like Roger Spottiswoode would have been a better choice.
  • Posts: 565
    Spottiswoode is a total hack and the least interesting of the four Brosnan-era directors.
  • DragonpolDragonpol Writer @ http://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    edited February 2 Posts: 14,971
    Sometimes it's better to count your blessings with what you had than wonder or worry too much about what might have been with the Bond film directors. I've always been a firm supporter of John Glen and am happy with what he served up over the course of five consecutive Bond films.
  • Posts: 13,358
    MaxCasino wrote: »
    I just think that Dalton needed a new director. It was for the best that John Glen walked after LTK, Dalton would have been stronger with a new director. Several actors have spoken about how John Glen was weak with them (in the book The Many Lives of James Bond by Mark Edlitz).

    It's probably for the
    Revelator wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    It's probably for the Controversial thread, but I think Dalton and Glen were the most mismatched duo of the whole franchise and Dalton needed a more character driven director.

    It's not as if Dalton's performances in either of his films were short on character though. Given how limited the budgets and resources were, Glen worked well with what he was given. The nadir of his direction was AVTAK, and he evidently revitalized by working with a new Bond. Given how soulless and mechanical TND was, I don't think someone like Roger Spottiswoode would have been a better choice.

    I don't think Glen and Dalton played on each other's strengths. And, while Glen could direct action scenes very well, for some unknown reasons Dalton comes off as rather weak in a fist fight. Mooreay have been an unconvincing fighter, but his Bond is depicted as a capable one. Dalton looks naturally far more menacing, but he does not deliver as a man you'd expect to be fully trained in close combat. Maybe it's not Glen's fault, but it always baffled me that he could not make Dalton a better fighter as Bond.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited February 2 Posts: 8,833
    Yes, the bar fight in LTK looks incredibly stiff and choreographed, doesn't it? I don't really buy Dalton as a hugely tasty fighter either.
    It always rankles with me when people complain that Craig is praised for doing what Dalton did twenty years before, but to me Craig has a real physical presence and I believe he really can beat everyone in a room to a pulp, as well as having that hugely confident swagger that just is what being James Bond means. Neither of which Dalton brought to it, if you ask me.
    I don't hate him, I happily his watch his films, but I can see how the other Bonds were stronger. If he'd somehow played it in '62 in the first film I don't think the series would have lasted.
  • RoadphillRoadphill United Kingdom
    Posts: 973
    mtm wrote: »
    Three Amigos is alright, isn't it? Plus y'know, actual celebrated classics like Blues Brothers, American Werewolf in London, Trading Places etc.

    Yes, they are fun films. But why would Bond be beneath someone that made them.

    I could understand Terence Malik or Martin Scorsese saying something like that, but not someone who has a somewhat daft, if enjoyable, resume.
  • RoadphillRoadphill United Kingdom
    Posts: 973
    mtm wrote: »
    Yes, the bar fight in LTK looks incredibly stiff and choreographed, doesn't it? I don't really buy Dalton as a hugely tasty fighter either.
    It always rankles with me when people complain that Craig is praised for doing what Dalton did twenty years before, but to me Craig has a real physical presence and I believe he really can beat everyone in a room to a pulp, as well as having that hugely confident swagger that just is what being James Bond means. Neither of which Dalton brought to it, if you ask me.
    I don't hate him, I happily his watch his films, but I can see how the other Bonds were stronger. If he'd somehow played it in '62 in the first film I don't think the series would have lasted.

    This I do agree on. Tim wasn't much of a fighter, no better than Moore. Lazenby, Craig, Connery and even Pierce have him beat in that regard.
  • Posts: 1,297
    Escalus5 wrote: »
    Spottiswoode is a total hack and the least interesting of the four Brosnan-era directors.

    No, that's not fair. Take a look at his body of work. Under Fire, for example, is excellent and very interesting. The problem he had with TND was a lack of a coherent script at the start.

  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 8,833
    Roadphill wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    Three Amigos is alright, isn't it? Plus y'know, actual celebrated classics like Blues Brothers, American Werewolf in London, Trading Places etc.

    Yes, they are fun films. But why would Bond be beneath someone that made them.

    I could understand Terence Malik or Martin Scorsese saying something like that, but not someone who has a somewhat daft, if enjoyable, resume.

    Well a few of those films are pretty much viewed as classics and he was writing some of them; a Bond film might feel like a bit cookie cutter/production line job next to those.
  • Posts: 13,358
    mtm wrote: »
    Yes, the bar fight in LTK looks incredibly stiff and choreographed, doesn't it? I don't really buy Dalton as a hugely tasty fighter either.
    It always rankles with me when people complain that Craig is praised for doing what Dalton did twenty years before, but to me Craig has a real physical presence and I believe he really can beat everyone in a room to a pulp, as well as having that hugely confident swagger that just is what being James Bond means. Neither of which Dalton brought to it, if you ask me.
    I don't hate him, I happily his watch his films, but I can see how the other Bonds were stronger. If he'd somehow played it in '62 in the first film I don't think the series would have lasted.

    What I don't understand is that around the same time he played a menacing and charming villain in The Rocketeer.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 8,833
    Yeah he was so much better in the Rocketeer. He seemed to have more charisma.
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