Controversial opinions about Bond films

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  • echoecho 007 in New York
    Posts: 5,979
    The instrumental version of OP is far better than any of the other '80s instrumentals.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,025
    echo wrote: »
    The instrumental version of OP is far better than any of the other '80s instrumentals.

    Barry might agree with that. It was the only slow rendition Barry included in Moviola II after DAF, with TMWTGG, MR, AVTAK, and TLD excluded.
  • GoldenGunGoldenGun Per ora e per il momento che verrà
    Posts: 6,786
    Everyone complains about Bond's 7 series in TND being a bit dull, but, and this comes from someone who's never been a fan of BMW's, if you pretend to be a banker that actually seems like pretty reasonable choice.
  • NickTwentyTwoNickTwentyTwo Vancouver, BC, Canada
    Posts: 7,526
    GoldenGun wrote: »
    Everyone complains about Bond's 7 series in TND being a bit dull, but, and this comes from someone who's never been a fan of BMW's, if you pretend to be a banker that actually seems like pretty reasonable choice.

    There’s a cool scene in Drive that illustrates this, too. If you’re engaging in any kind of clandestine acts, a car that blends in will always be the best choice. Not really what Bond is known for though.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,025
    There's a little more to it than just Bond's cover as a banker. Normally Bond wouldn't be driving a sedan, but because the filmmakers planned a garage chase that involved Bond sitting in the backseat, that mean he needed a backdoor to slip out of. Had there been no sequence involving Bond driving in the back seat, he probably would have just been driving another two-door BMW like in GE and TWINE.
  • Posts: 14,831
    Don't know if that's controversial, but given that we're talking about the BMW in TND I find the action scene in the parking lot utterly unexciting and devoid of tension, suspense or any kind of danger. You have Bond pushing buttons and a car that does everything.
  • Posts: 15,818
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Don't know if that's controversial, but given that we're talking about the BMW in TND I find the action scene in the parking lot utterly unexciting and devoid of tension, suspense or any kind of danger. You have Bond pushing buttons and a car that does everything.

    Can't say that's one of my favorite action scenes either. I feel the same way about the caviar factory bit in TWINE and the Miami airport section of CR. I really should love the airport scene in CR as technically it's quite excellent. I just want the film to get on to Vesper by that point.
  • FatherValentineFatherValentine England
    Posts: 737
    Not sure if this counts as a controversial opinion but I look at the promotional materials for NTTD and there's not a single element that excites me. Conversely, I think it looks pretty poor to be honest. The trailer leaves me cold.
  • GoldenGunGoldenGun Per ora e per il momento che verrà
    Posts: 6,786
    ToTheRight wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Don't know if that's controversial, but given that we're talking about the BMW in TND I find the action scene in the parking lot utterly unexciting and devoid of tension, suspense or any kind of danger. You have Bond pushing buttons and a car that does everything.

    Can't say that's one of my favorite action scenes either. I feel the same way about the caviar factory bit in TWINE and the Miami airport section of CR. I really should love the airport scene in CR as technically it's quite excellent. I just want the film to get on to Vesper by that point.

    Agreed. I find that whole Miami part to be rather dull actually. I always find myself thinking: "Just get on to the part on the train already."
  • Posts: 14,831
    ToTheRight wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Don't know if that's controversial, but given that we're talking about the BMW in TND I find the action scene in the parking lot utterly unexciting and devoid of tension, suspense or any kind of danger. You have Bond pushing buttons and a car that does everything.

    Can't say that's one of my favorite action scenes either. I feel the same way about the caviar factory bit in TWINE and the Miami airport section of CR. I really should love the airport scene in CR as technically it's quite excellent. I just want the film to get on to Vesper by that point.

    I quite like the airport sequence in CR.

    Not a big fan of the TWINE caviar factory action scene either as it's far too cartoonish. And why oh why always use a gadget laden car in an enclosed space? But at least there's somewhat a vague feeling of danger and a caviar factory is a bit more unusual as a setting than a generic car park. Not much to go for, but still a tiny bit better than in TND.
  • GoldenGunGoldenGun Per ora e per il momento che verrà
    edited June 2020 Posts: 6,786
    I think DAD, for all its faults, does give us the best gadget car sequence of the Brosnan era with the Vanquish v. Jag duel.

    Edit: make that the post-1990 era as I only recall the pedestrian DB10 chase from the Craig years.
  • Posts: 1,883
    I also like the Miami airport sequence. It starts out with a bizarre setting with the bodies exhibition and then another example of the raw Bond going after his objective at all costs.

    I like that CR tries a fresh approach with a more toned down PTS followed by the rousing Madagascar chase and then not much later the Miami airport and then calms down in the middle section with less action, save for the big machete fight with Obano and his thugs.
  • NickTwentyTwoNickTwentyTwo Vancouver, BC, Canada
    edited June 2020 Posts: 7,526
    Don't love the TND parking garage sequence either. I don't think people buy tickets to see James Bond playing on his phone in the backseat of a car during a car chase, I certainly don't. Also, I'm not a huge fan of the car either.
    Also don't love the Miami sequence in CR; it just feels a little tacked on to me, in a film that tends to feel a little long. Bond also looks terrible in all of the Miami scenes, which makes a difference to me. He also does some bad spying here, as he gets made by both Dimitrios and Carlos almost right away. Ugly + Unprofessional = Not Bond. ;P
  • MaxCasinoMaxCasino United States
    Posts: 4,113
    I wish EON would have used Irvin Kershner and Lorenzo Semple Jr. at some point in the official series. After reading how much Guy Hamilton got lucky with GF, I think we deserved a better less sexist director. Lewis Gilbert repeated himself 3 times, and John Glen was too workmanlike. As for writing, Richard Maibaum and Michael Wilson both did one film too many. It shows, and Semple Jr could have helped. Timothy Dalton deserved better above all.
  • FatherValentineFatherValentine England
    Posts: 737
    Kershner and Semple Jr had their chance.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,025
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Don't know if that's controversial, but given that we're talking about the BMW in TND I find the action scene in the parking lot utterly unexciting and devoid of tension, suspense or any kind of danger. You have Bond pushing buttons and a car that does everything.

    It was actually my very first Bond film, watching it on Pay-Per-View when I was 11 years old. After the garage chase, I stopped watching the film because I thought the movie was too boring. It would be awhile before I gave Bond films another chance.
  • Posts: 2,896
    MaxCasino wrote: »
    I wish EON would have used Irvin Kershner and Lorenzo Semple Jr. at some point in the official series...As for writing, Richard Maibaum and Michael Wilson both did one film too many. It shows, and Semple Jr could have helped. Timothy Dalton deserved better above all.

    Kershner was a good director, but nothing in NSNA made me wish he'd taken another turn at Bond, especially since he didn't like the character or Fleming. Semple excelled at writing good camp (the first season of Batman and Flash Gordon) but wouldn't have been suited to take Bond in more realistic direction.

    Because of the writers' strike, Maibaum did not work on the final draft of LTK, so blaming him for the film would be unfair. And I think Wilson did a very good job with the final product--I'd say LTK is the best written Bond film of the 80s. The real tragedy is that Maibaum and Wilson did one film too few.
  • OctopussyOctopussy Piz Gloria, Schilthorn, Switzerland.
    Posts: 1,081
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Don't know if that's controversial, but given that we're talking about the BMW in TND I find the action scene in the parking lot utterly unexciting and devoid of tension, suspense or any kind of danger. You have Bond pushing buttons and a car that does everything.

    Agreed. The problem with the Brosnan era is that Bond is equipped with a gadget for literally every potential problem. I feel like the moment Bond smirks while using his phone scanner to open the safe in Tomorrow Never Dies epitomises what's wrong with his era. Bond returned to being a superman who is untouchable and knew it. The BMW chase in Dies would rank lowly with me too, because it's obvious that he has every gimmick to dispose of the opposition. I much prefer sequences like the Alfa Romeo chase in Octopussy which has genuinely brilliant driving and is tense as he races to defuse the bomb, or even that of For Your Eyes Only because Bond is in the inferior vehicle.
  • GoldenGunGoldenGun Per ora e per il momento che verrà
    Posts: 6,786
    In any case, the Alfa is a much nicer looking car than any of the BMW's from the 90's :)
  • Posts: 1,883
    Don't love the TND parking garage sequence either. I don't think people buy tickets to see James Bond playing on his phone in the backseat of a car during a car chase, I certainly don't. Also, I'm not a huge fan of the car either.
    Also don't love the Miami sequence in CR; it just feels a little tacked on to me, in a film that tends to feel a little long. Bond also looks terrible in all of the Miami scenes, which makes a difference to me. He also does some bad spying here, as he gets made by both Dimitrios and Carlos almost right away. Ugly + Unprofessional = Not Bond. ;P

    I think you're missing out on a couple of factors here.

    Consider when TND was released that not everybody had a cell phone and having one that controlled a car was inventive and novel then. Has it aged well, no. As technology advances not everything is going to. I actually get a good sense of fun as he seems to enjoy frustrating the bad guys and this technology. I'll take it over the horrid caviar factory scene any time. Having a car that actually does something is miles better than having one he drives down a road and doesn't do anything with as in GE.

    As far as the unprofessional/bad spying, consider that this film is Bond early in his career. That's established even by M. He's winning ugly but eventually accomplishing what he sets out to do and upsets LeChiffre's plan, setting the rest in motion at the casino. As for the ugly comment, well, that's your opinion.

    It also makes me think of Roger Moore's comment about Bond being the world's most obvious secret agent. I think of TND where he announces himself and everybody knows what he is there for and countless other circumstances. So there's that.
  • GoldenGunGoldenGun Per ora e per il momento che verrà
    Posts: 6,786
    Birdleson wrote: »
    Don't love the TND parking garage sequence either. I don't think people buy tickets to see James Bond playing on his phone in the backseat of a car during a car chase, I certainly don't. Also, I'm not a huge fan of the car either.

    I agree completely. Throw in the tank chase as well.

    Funny thing, I love GE, I really do. It's always top 10 for me, but the tank chase is my least favourite part of the film.
  • Posts: 1,883
    I will agree on the tank chase. It seemed to be a case of needing to get Bond into a mode of transport he hadn't been in and the end result always reminded me more of an outtake from The Blues Brothers rather than Bond.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    Birdleson wrote: »
    Don't love the TND parking garage sequence either. I don't think people buy tickets to see James Bond playing on his phone in the backseat of a car during a car chase, I certainly don't. Also, I'm not a huge fan of the car either.

    I agree completely. Throw in the tank chase as well.

    Yes. Both scenes are off-turning.
  • Posts: 1,394
    Absolutley love the BMW chase in TND.David Arnolds fantastic score and Brosnans performance really adds to the fun of it all.
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,330
    I love it too.
  • Agent_47Agent_47 Canada
    Posts: 330
    Murdock wrote: »
    I love it too.

    I enjoy all of the chases during the Brosnan era, they are some the biggest highlights for me.
  • Posts: 6,815
    BT3366 wrote: »
    I will agree on the tank chase. It seemed to be a case of needing to get Bond into a mode of transport he hadn't been in and the end result always reminded me more of an outtake from The Blues Brothers rather than Bond.

    I think the original plan was to have Bond on a motorcycle, think it was Gary Powells idea to put him in a Tank. I dont have issues with the vehicle, its the execution of the set piece i dont like! Dull.
    The BMW chase is even worse!
  • j_w_pepperj_w_pepper Born on the bayou. I can still hear my old hound dog barkin'.
    Posts: 8,691
    I really do like that tank chase in GE. Whatever the issues about the scores may have been. But it's a highlight of GE.
  • NickTwentyTwoNickTwentyTwo Vancouver, BC, Canada
    Posts: 7,526
    I like the tank chase too. I don’t even really hate the TND chase, it isn’t my favourite, but maybe my issue is more with Bond’s BMWs than this specific chase. The 750iL is just boring to look at.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,025
    I like the tank chase, it’s a nice moment of levity in a film that’s mostly gloomy.
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