The What if thread...M had been re-cast for CR 2006? page 60

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  • edited February 2020 Posts: 4,023
    I think John Barry would have created a strong action theme to replace the missing Bond theme. Something like “He’s Dangerous” from AVTAK.

    Legrand used the NSNA theme as a cool or romantic theme, and it was ok. But the action themes are tuneless. His best was the cue as Bond rescues Domino on horseback.

    Barry was offered NSNA wasn’t he?
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    There is an EONized fan edit of NSNA featuring a Barry score. Even though it is an amateur putting Barry music not written for the film over it, it is still an improvement.
  • RichardTheBruceRichardTheBruce I'm motivated by my Duty.
    Posts: 12,914
    The Never Say McClory Again fan edit was a big improvement. Even added a gunbarrel and proper pretitles action. Then a proper titles sequence (from Thunderball) and title song ("History Repeating", Propellerheads, vocals by Shirley Bassey). Very fun to experience.

    And yes, an appropriate score would greatly improve Never Say Never Again. If you listen to the commentary on the DVD, director Irvin Kirschner describes some of the tracks Michel Legrand provided as unuseable. Forcing him to decide to use tracks written for specific scenes to be matched with others. That's unbelievable and it probably affected some editing of the film. This and the dwindling funds toward the end of the production explain the state of the film.

  • Posts: 1,879
    You have to wonder how a proficient composer like Legrand wouldn't seem to have any clue as to how to score a James Bond picture. He'd had to have known of Barry's reputation and at least some of his Bond work since it was everywhere in the '60s. It's almost like he used Monty Norman's DN score minus the Bond theme as his template.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 7,999
    I disagree with the sentiment that a good score elevates a film, because that's NOT always the case. I own several soundtracks to films I've only seen once. THE SPECIALIST has a great score that showed Barry still had it in him to score for Bond. There's so many tracks in it that would fit well for Bond, I even made a video using the cue "Explosive Trent" in GE.





    But with that said, I saw THE SPECIALIST once and I'll probably never see it again. Not even a great John Barry score would want me to endure the utter boredom that is the 1994 Stallone film. This is the same for other known turkeys like SUPERGIRL. I own the soundtrack for that and listen to that multiple times, but I never feel any urge to revisit it just because of the music. I imagine that would have been the same case with NSNA even if Barry delivered the best Bond score ever.

    A good score only truly elevates a film when the film itself is already that good. They need to compliment each other. If it's terrible, I only want the soundtrack.
  • OctopussyOctopussy Piz Gloria, Schilthorn, Switzerland.
    Posts: 1,081
    I disagree with the sentiment that a good score elevates a film, because that's NOT always the case.
    A good score only truly elevates a film when the film itself is already that good. They need to compliment each other. If it's terrible, I only want the soundtrack.

    Agree with these sentiments. I don't think The World Is Not Enough or Die Another Day would've been deemed as better films had they hypothetically been scored by Barry. The same too can be said NSNA.
  • I think Michel Legrand's work outside of Bond speaks for itself and he really needs no defending as one of the great musicians and film composers of the 20th Century.

    However, out of a musical career that spanned over 300 albums of film scores, pop music, and original orchestral work, this has to rank pretty near the bottom.

    From what I can tell, he and the producers had disagreements about the way the score should go, Legrand favouring his typical lush and whimsy-heavy style while the producers wanted a more typical action sound for the score, and a "modern" synth sound for the title track.

    At the very least, huge parts of it sound noticeably different to Legrand's scores that came both before and after. Much like NSNA itself, the end result feels like a somewhat unsatisfying mess made by a group of overqualified people.

    I would almost have prefered it if Legrand hadn't compromised his own style and simply walked away and been replaced. His previous work suggests he could have made a really great Bond score, just not for the kind of movie NSNA turned out to be.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 7,999
    Indeed, and if Barry had scored those films I imagine there would be plenty of comments like "great score, a shame it's wasted on that film!". It's something I heard too often in regards to John Williams' prequel scores.
  • OctopussyOctopussy Piz Gloria, Schilthorn, Switzerland.
    edited February 2020 Posts: 1,081
    Indeed, and if Barry had scored those films I imagine there would be plenty of comments like "great score, a shame it's wasted on that film!". It's something I heard too often in regards to John Williams' prequel scores.

    The best contribution of the SW films outside of A New Hope, The Empire Strikes Back and The Return of The Jedi are John William's scores.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    edited February 2020 Posts: 7,999
    The OT is a good case of genuinely great scores elevating an already pretty good set of movies!
  • OctopussyOctopussy Piz Gloria, Schilthorn, Switzerland.
    Posts: 1,081
    100% but no one gives a toss about it in the other films because they're garbage.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 7,999
    I enjoy TFA and TLJ about as much as the OT. It’s everything else that ranges from adequate (TROS) to utterly horrifying (AOTC).

    But enough of Star Wars!
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,328
    I'm not sure if Barry scoring NSNA would have improved the film but it would probably have made it a more watchable and even rewatchable film.
  • SatoriousSatorious Brushing up on a little Danish
    Posts: 231
    Would a John Barry score improve NSNA?
    For me, simply put - yes. I've nothing against Legrand, but this would make it feel a lot more like a traditional Bond film (Sean Connery and Thunderball plot rehashing aside), even without the use of the main theme and gunbarrel.
  • edited February 2020 Posts: 1,693
    Yes it did. I saw McClory's print of NSNA while visiting him in the Bahamas, in which he had replaced the soundtrack with "Thunderball"s music. It improved it but it was still what it was.
  • Posts: 1,879
    I don't think anybody would say a Barry score would've made NSNA a classic or made it anywhere near GF, OHMSS or FRWL, just that it would improve the experience or at least make it possibly more memorable.

    I'll compare that with AVTAK having a Barry score. Still a pretty awful Bond film in my opinion and it's my least favorite Barry score, so that part of it doesn't lift it any for me, so it kind of varies by case.
  • thedovethedove hiding in the Greek underworld
    Posts: 4,904
    Interesting information. I hadn't heard that the producers weren't happy with Legrand's work. His soundtrack seems too laid back and jazz infused for my liking. I think that Barry created 007 as a secondary theme song for Bond. Could he had come up with another classic?

    I don't think the soundtrack alone would have improved the movie, but I think it would have enhanced the movie experience.
  • edited February 2020 Posts: 3,272
    A Barry score would have lifted NSNA to a much higher level, the same way a Barry score did with films like DAF and MR (2 of his best). I find those films more enjoyable partly because of the score, and I definitely think it would have improved NSNA.

    Just watch this fan made attempt at a PTS NSNA complete with Barry score and gunbarrel. It makes it a complete different experience.

  • Posts: 6,727
    Wasnt James Horner supposed to score NSNA?
  • pachazopachazo Make Your Choice
    edited February 2020 Posts: 7,314
    Yes, a Barry score would definitely have improved the film for me, but then again I actually enjoy NSNA more than most on here. Not only would it have been more fitting, but it also could've been the missing link to make this feel more like the official Connery adventures of the past.
  • thedovethedove hiding in the Greek underworld
    Posts: 4,904
    I agree with you @pachazo I recall a few reviewers saying it reminded them of a Bond movie from the 60's but updated for the 80's. I too like NSNA. It's got some flaws but overall a good yarn and I think worthy of some admiration.

    It is amazing how the music can really punch up a scene. I wonder who made the decision to the have the title track playing while Bond storms the fortress? Not a good choice to me.
  • RichardTheBruceRichardTheBruce I'm motivated by my Duty.
    Posts: 12,914
    For the Never Say McClory Again product, I couldn't find the exact match-up but its title sequence used this version of The Propellerheads' "History Repeating". Vocals by Shirley Bassey. Set to the Maurice Binder titles of Thunderball.

    That worked very well.



  • Posts: 6,727
    thedove wrote: »
    I agree with you @pachazo I recall a few reviewers saying it reminded them of a Bond movie from the 60's but updated for the 80's. I too like NSNA. It's got some flaws but overall a good yarn and I think worthy of some admiration.

    It is amazing how the music can really punch up a scene. I wonder who made the decision to the have the title track playing while Bond storms the fortress? Not a good choice to me.

    Unscripted writers Dick Clement and Ian Lafrenais
    claimed in an interview that they wrote that opening training exercise as a pts, but it was probably due to the length of the movie that the filmmakers decided to put the theme song over it!
  • RyanRyan Canada
    Posts: 692
    It wouldn't have improved that mess of a film so to speak, but it definitely would have made it more tolerable and become one of the few redeeming qualities.
  • DwayneDwayne New York City
    Posts: 2,598
    While I found Legrand’s score a bit underwhelming, I actually liked NSNA’s theme song by Lani Hall. That said, I think that even she was once quoted (BBC “Viewers Poll” program on the Bond Theme Songs – 2006?) as saying that, looking back in hindsight, it didn’t work as well as they hoped. Any way she was great as part of Sérgio Mendes & Brasil '66!



    In any case, I seem to remember John Barry as stating that he was offered the NSNA gig, but turned it down out of loyalty to Cubby.
  • Posts: 15,785
    Dwayne wrote: »
    While I found Legrand’s score a bit underwhelming, I actually liked NSNA’s theme song by Lani Hall. That said, I think that even she was once quoted (BBC “Viewers Poll” program on the Bond Theme Songs – 2006?) as saying that, looking back in hindsight, it didn’t work as well as they hoped. Any way she was great as part of Sérgio Mendes & Brasil '66!



    In any case, I seem to remember John Barry as stating that he was offered the NSNA gig, but turned it down out of loyalty to Cubby.

    I like the title song as well. To me it's no better or worse than ALL TIME HIGH. When one is in the mood for early '80's easy listening cheese, look no further than the soothing, relaxing sounds of Never...............Never Say Never Again. Never..................Never Say Never Again.
  • Posts: 6,727
    It's a terrible song!
    But I love All Time High! Way better!
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 7,999
    You walk in the rooooooooommmmmmmm.......... a woman can FEEL THE HEAT
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,328
    One look is a guaranteeeeeeeeeeeeeeee! Okay I'll stop. ;)
  • thedovethedove hiding in the Greek underworld
    edited February 2020 Posts: 4,904
    Okay it seems we have talked through the music choice of that film. I'm feeling Italian and musical.:) Lets stay with a music what if. Since Billie Elish has been such a lightening rod for the theme of NTTD. How about we dive into another theme song choice that never was.

    The theme for MR was offered to a few artists. Frank Sinatra and then Kate Bush were both offered and both turned it down.

    What if one of these choices had been made. Who would you say was the biggest miss of the series? Who could have really made a classic Bond title song artist?

    Can we envision Old Blue Eyes singing MR? What it would sound like? What about Kate Bush? I think of the three songs that Bassey did MR is frequently given short shift but it is a good song. What say you Mi6? What is Frank Sinatra or Kate Bush had recorded MR? Would it had been a bigger hit? Did we miss out on a more classic Bond theme song by not having these artists?
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