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Indiana Jones and the Dial of Destiny (30th June 2023)

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  • Scaramanga1974Scaramanga1974
    Posts: 663
    Indiana Jones and the Russian Nazis would be quite topical.
  • talos7talos7 New Orleans
    edited March 2022 Posts: 7,972
    Since62 wrote: »
    Yes, but there's quite a difference between Indy breaking hearts and Indy committing statutory rape.

    Absolutely, that’s why I ask if it’s specifically confirmed that they were intimate. Only what is on the screen is cannon. If it’s not then I’m not going to assume it happened. She had a massive schoolgirl crush that he responded to but didn’t consumable.

  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,025
    I think she was canonically 16 according to the Indy site (she’s supposed to be 26 by RAIDERS), but the film never explicitly says so and probably for the better.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 14,948
    MakeshiftPython wrote: »
    I think she was canonically 16 according to the Indy site (she’s supposed to be 26 by RAIDERS), but the film never explicitly says so and probably for the better.

    I think the last time we talked about this (only a few pages ago I'm sure!) it was mentioned that she was younger in the script of the film as it was made.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,025
    Yeah Lucas wanted their affair to be truly scandalous.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 14,948
    Which makes sense from a drama point of view, of course. If she had been just a bit younger but still old enough to be legal, she'd have had no reason to be angry with Indy and say all the "it was wrong and you knew it" stuff.
    Still, might have been best to come up with another reason as to why it was wrong or for her to be angry with him.
  • Since62Since62
    Posts: 1,571
    For it to have been "wrong" and Indy knew it, it need not have been statutory rape. Just one of them younger, and the other older and more mature.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 14,948
    Not very dramatic though, and not really all that wrong.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,025
    That’s why Lucas said having her be 17 wasn’t scandalous enough, just being on the border of adulthood. By having her be 15 and him 25, you can understand why his friendship with Abner was pretty much destroyed once he discovered the affair. That’s why Indy has that regretful look on his face when he’s being asked about Abner “had a bit of a falling out I’m afraid”.

    But it could have been worse. Indy was supposed to be sleeping with his students. May be college age, but that’s pretty ethically screwed up. Funny thing, Pierce Brosnan starred in a film as a professor that sleeps with students.
  • Risico007Risico007
    Posts: 9,770
    MakeshiftPython wrote: »
    That’s why Lucas said having her be 17 wasn’t scandalous enough, just being on the border of adulthood. By having her be 15 and him 25, you can understand why his friendship with Abner was pretty much destroyed once he discovered the affair. That’s why Indy has that regretful look on his face when he’s being asked about Abner “had a bit of a falling out I’m afraid”.

    But it could have been worse. Indy was supposed to be sleeping with his students. May be college age, but that’s pretty ethically screwed up. Funny thing, Pierce Brosnan starred in a film as a professor that sleeps with students.

    which film is this?
  • Since62Since62
    Posts: 1,571
    Ugh ! We're talking about Child abuse ! Rape ! 15 and 25 ! Not merely dramatic or interesting, but horrible.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited March 2022 Posts: 14,948
    Yep, it's horrible and entirely misguided, but they're not real people at least and it's easy to ignore, thankfully.
  • Since62Since62
    Posts: 1,571
    I gotta admit it feeds right into the things some folks say about some folks in Hollywood. (How's that for vague and meandering ?) It is quite unlikely, in the real world, for a guy who would do that never to seek it out or actually do it again. Here's a title: Indiana Jones and the Sex Offender Registry. Lucas kept tinkering and changing the earlier Star Wars films - fine ! This was something that could have used a change.
  • talos7talos7 New Orleans
    Posts: 7,972
    Nothing in the film says that the relationship was sexual.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,025
    Risico007 wrote: »
    MakeshiftPython wrote: »
    That’s why Lucas said having her be 17 wasn’t scandalous enough, just being on the border of adulthood. By having her be 15 and him 25, you can understand why his friendship with Abner was pretty much destroyed once he discovered the affair. That’s why Indy has that regretful look on his face when he’s being asked about Abner “had a bit of a falling out I’m afraid”.

    But it could have been worse. Indy was supposed to be sleeping with his students. May be college age, but that’s pretty ethically screwed up. Funny thing, Pierce Brosnan starred in a film as a professor that sleeps with students.

    which film is this?

  • FoxRoxFoxRox
    Posts: 12,266
    talos7 wrote: »
    Nothing in the film says that the relationship was sexual.

    This is a good point. If nothing explicit was said it’s anyone’s guess. What if Indy simply led her on and played with her emotions? Still wrong but rape didn’t necessarily occur.
  • Since62Since62
    Posts: 1,571
    Indeed. Perhaps Indiana let her have her crush, and knew that sooner or later she'd feel hurt, but let her live with her delusion....buuuut doesn't it seem it was something more than that ?
  • AstonLotusAstonLotus
    Posts: 1,394
    mtm wrote: »
    AstonLotus wrote: »
    Indiana Jones and the wokification of yet another franchise.

    There's a woman and a Chinese kid in the second one. And they save a load of Indians.

    And?
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited March 2022 Posts: 14,948
    AstonLotus wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    AstonLotus wrote: »
    Indiana Jones and the wokification of yet another franchise.

    There's a woman and a Chinese kid in the second one. And they save a load of Indians.

    And?

    And lots else happens too. Would you like me to tell you the whole plot? It's more fun to watch it.
  • CraigMooreOHMSSCraigMooreOHMSS Dublin, Ireland
    Posts: 8,034
    mtm wrote: »
    AstonLotus wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    AstonLotus wrote: »
    Indiana Jones and the wokification of yet another franchise.

    There's a woman and a Chinese kid in the second one. And they save a load of Indians.

    And?

    And lots else happens too. Would you like me to tell you the whole plot? It's more fun to watch it.

    Don't forget the water!
  • slide_99slide_99 USA
    Posts: 652
    Indiana Jones and the Island of Epstein
  • Since62Since62
    Posts: 1,571
    slide_99 wrote: »
    Indiana Jones and the Island of Epstein

    Eww...
  • AstonLotusAstonLotus
    Posts: 1,394
    mtm wrote: »
    AstonLotus wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    AstonLotus wrote: »
    Indiana Jones and the wokification of yet another franchise.

    There's a woman and a Chinese kid in the second one. And they save a load of Indians.

    And?

    And lots else happens too. Would you like me to tell you the whole plot? It's more fun to watch it.

    Yeah...thought as much.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 14,948
    It really is fun, yes; I’m glad you agree.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    Since62 wrote: »
    I gotta admit it feeds right into the things some folks say about some folks in Hollywood. (How's that for vague and meandering ?) It is quite unlikely, in the real world, for a guy who would do that never to seek it out or actually do it again. Here's a title: Indiana Jones and the Sex Offender Registry. Lucas kept tinkering and changing the earlier Star Wars films - fine ! This was something that could have used a change.

    In a story meeting in 1978, Lucas had allegedly suggested she had been 11 or 12, and Indy a grown man. Supposedly, Spielberg shut the idea down.
  • talos7talos7 New Orleans
    Posts: 7,972
    Thunderfinger wrote: »
    Since62 wrote: »
    I gotta admit it feeds right into the things some folks say about some folks in Hollywood. (How's that for vague and meandering ?) It is quite unlikely, in the real world, for a guy who would do that never to seek it out or actually do it again. Here's a title: Indiana Jones and the Sex Offender Registry. Lucas kept tinkering and changing the earlier Star Wars films - fine ! This was something that could have used a change.

    In a story meeting in 1978, Lucas had allegedly suggested she had been 11 or 12, and Indy a grown man. Supposedly, Spielberg shut the idea down.

    The key word being “allegedly “ . I find it incredibly hard to believe that this is factual. If it is then Lucas has some serious issues.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    talos7 wrote: »
    Thunderfinger wrote: »
    Since62 wrote: »
    I gotta admit it feeds right into the things some folks say about some folks in Hollywood. (How's that for vague and meandering ?) It is quite unlikely, in the real world, for a guy who would do that never to seek it out or actually do it again. Here's a title: Indiana Jones and the Sex Offender Registry. Lucas kept tinkering and changing the earlier Star Wars films - fine ! This was something that could have used a change.

    In a story meeting in 1978, Lucas had allegedly suggested she had been 11 or 12, and Indy a grown man. Supposedly, Spielberg shut the idea down.

    The key word being “allegedly “ . I find it incredibly hard to believe that this is factual. If it is then Lucas has some serious issues.

    Yes, that is why I wrote it that way. I just remember reading the story, never heard Lucas or Spielberg themselves saying it.
  • FoxRoxFoxRox
    Posts: 12,266
    I like my movie heroes flawed, but I don’t know about that flawed!
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,025
    Not allegedly. A transcript of the meeting between Spielberg, Lucas, and Kasdan was released by LucasFilm long ago. Lucas has no problem with transparency unless it has to do with the special editions, then that’s when you see some revisionism.
  • talos7talos7 New Orleans
    edited March 2022 Posts: 7,972
    Karen Allen sees it how I do.

    “I guess you could say [there are sinister undertones],” Allen said about the scene. “I think I say I was 16. I don’t know. That’s always what I imagined is she was 16, he was 26. And he was her father’s student. And it’s left very mysterious. We don’t even know what it is. I mean, they could have kissed a few times, and she was just completely bowled over, and he could have just not wanted to get involved with someone so young. And maybe my father would have been furious at him.”

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.indiewire.com/2021/06/karen-allen-indiana-jones-pedophile-1234643243/amp/
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