Indiana Jones 5 (July 10, 2020)

edited April 25 in General Movies & TV Posts: 1,297
No one has brought up Indiana Jones yet, so I'll be the first!

I'll start off by saying that ALL three original Indiana Jones pictures (yes, even Temple of Doom) were incredible films. Radiers of the Lost Ark might even be my favorite film of all time.

Even Kingdom of the Crystal Skull, while not even holding a candle to the original series, isn't HORRIBLE. Yes, there are plenty of things wrong with it, but sometimes I think it gets a little more criticism than it deserves.

My Indy Rankings:

1. Raiders of the Lost Ark (1981) - 10/10
2. Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade (1989) - 9/10
3. Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom (1984) - 9/10
4. Indiana Jones and the Kingdom of the Crystal Skull (2008) - 6/10

Temple of Doom and Last Crusade are so close, sometimes it is hard to call for me.

Thoughts????
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Comments

  • haserothaserot has returned like the tedious inevitability of an unloved season.
    Posts: 4,009
    i agree with your statements towards Crystal Skull... i would go on a rant for hours about how it's no less stupid than Temple Of Doom.. but i'll let the end of this one video speak on my behalf - because i share the same feelings as this guy does... (just skip up the the 13:00 mark)





  • Posts: 1,973
    I'm a big fan of the series myself, especially the original trilogy. I don't own them yet and hope to get a Blu Ray release soon! I'd tank Last Crusade slightly over Raiders, and both a bit better than Temple. Miles ahead of Kingdom, but as both you pointed out, that movie is far better than many other remakes, not so terrible.
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 7,007
    Really cant agree with the generosity being afforded towards KOTCS here. Its an absolute travesty and I would say a far bigger disappointment than even the Phantom Menace.

    And its not about stupidity, implausability, the aliens or the fridge either.
    Its about 3 of the most talented film makers of all time being happy to turn out something so shoddy. Not sure who is worse - Lucas for being so stubborn in insisting on such a lacklustre story or Spielberg for his empty promises of stunt sequences filmed the old fashioned way and then serving up a CGI overload that contravenes the laws of physics. Ford cant escape all criticism either; someone of his stature should have the bottle to stand up to Lucas and say 'George, this is bullsh*t'.

    The youtube review and comments above miss the point completely. Yeah compared to crap like Transformers and Fast & the Furious its not too bad compared to some sequels and seeing Harrison back in the hat is fantastic but this is Indy, second only to Bond in action hero terms. This shouldve been a cinematic event. Something that is only average is OK for your run of the mill franchise but not good enough with the weight of expectation of a series so revered. Its totally unacceptable that this tossfest was deemed good enough for release as part of the Indy canon. Obviously unrealistic to expect it to be anywhere near Raiders, Crusade or even Temple but it had to at least try and aspire to them.

    I consider this film worse even than DAD as at least with Bond you know that another one will be along in a few years to have a chance to put things right but after 20 years and Harrison on his last legs this was a one shot deal and they missed the target worse than a speculative Heskey punt from 30 yards.

    Cant wait for the blurays of the originals but knowing Lucas they will be packaged as a quadrilogy to force you to by the runt of the litter. Hes doing the same with the Star Wars blurays, theyre being boxed up as a 6 so youre stuck with the new ones as well as the classics.

  • DiscoVolanteDiscoVolante Stockholm, Sweden
    Posts: 1,321
    Lost Ark is awesome. I recently re-watched Last Crusade, and it's not even close to Raiders.
  • Posts: 13,091
    Quoting DiscoVolante:
    Lost Ark is awesome. I recently re-watched Last Crusade, and
    it's not even close to Raiders.
    Agreed. Last Crusade wanted to be another Raiders but failed in every possible.

    The only great Indy film is the original, the sequels aren't half as good and are massive step down in my opinion.
  • haserothaserot has returned like the tedious inevitability of an unloved season.
    Posts: 4,009
    Quoting TheWizardOfIce: Really cant agree with the generosity being afforded towards KOTCS here. Its an absolute travesty and I would say a far bigger disappointment than even the Phantom Menace.



    And its not about stupidity, implausability, the aliens or the fridge either.

    Its about 3 of the most talented film makers of all time being happy to turn out something so shoddy. Not sure who is worse - Lucas for being so stubborn in insisting on such a lacklustre story or Spielberg for his empty promises of stunt sequences filmed the old fashioned way and then serving up a CGI overload that contravenes the laws of physics.
    so you don't believe that a part of that falls onto 20 years of expectations that can't possibly be lived up to by us the audience??.

    and I used to think everything, was CGI'd in that movie - but honestly, there is more miniature and model work in that film than you would realize.. sure they used some CGI, but that was for little details to enhance the model work.... remember the nuke town that gets leveled? 95% model - it was just shot at an insanely high frame rate..... take some time and watch the behind the scenes, again - you'd be surprised..
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 7,007
    Quoting haserot: so you don't believe that a part of that falls onto 20 years of expectations that can't possibly be lived up to by us the audience??.
    Dont make it then. If the script isnt top notch scrap it and start again and if the next one is not good enough then scrap that as well and start again and repeat again and again. Seeing as it seemed to be in development forever I thought thats what they were doing. Is that honestly a script they thought was anywhere near Raiders or Crusade or even Temple?
    Name me one stunt or action sequence that is memorable and had you gasping in amazement? The old films have classic scenes in spades - the boulder sequence, the snakes, the fight with the German on the plane, the truck chase, the bugs, the mine cart (although personally I'm not a fan), the bridge, the boat chase, the tank chase - Kingdom barely has one and certainly nothing that will go down as a legendary moment.
    Compare this with GE. Bond had been absent for 6 years and they knew they had to bring him back with a bang - and they did. Epic pre title sequence and the stunning tank chase had the wow factor and have gone down as classic Bond. OK so with the passing of time its not the best Bond film but at the time it ticked all the boxes and I dont think anyone left the cinema feeling short changed.

    Fair point on the model stuff but I sense your primarily talking about the opening scene there which is actually the best for me. Real stunts in the warehouse and the fridge that everyone detests doesnt annoy me anywhere near the monkey garbage, the stupid jump from cliff to tree and the implausibly unsurvivable triple waterfall plunge. The big jungle chase which is obviously in direct competition with the truck chase and the tank chase is an absolute joke. I would estimate its about 95% CGI and blue screen; I dont even think they left the studio to film it. Compare that to the aforementioned chases from Raiders & Crusade which are entirely 2nd unit and filmed for real and its basically a betrayal of the series on a similar scale to the CGI wave in DAD. Except that lasts about 30 seconds. This goes on for about 20 minutes.

    Then youve got Marions character being totally changed from the original spunky heroine (and some of the acting and dialogue between her and Harrison is cringeworthy), John Hurt completely wasted as a bumbling tramp, Ray Winstone pointlessly and tediously swapping sides, Shia Leboeuf dominating the big 3rd act action sequence whilst Harrison just tags along for the ride. Its a total mess.

    Got no problem with the Macguffin and dont really care about the aliens as this is no more far fetched than the power of God in Raiders.

    At the end of the day our expectations were sky high and I thought the fact it took so long for them to make it was because they wanted to get it right and live up to these expectations. That they got this in the can and thought that it met our expectations is staggering.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!
    Posts: 13,672
    I'm a sucker for TOD. I'm actually one of the few to rank it number one as my favourite IJ film. One very big reason for that is the Williams score. That said, I think Raiders is the best.
  • edited March 2011 Posts: 10,345
    Personally I'd have to agree with SJ and the guy on Youtube. KOTCS is by no means the best Indy film but its nonetheless solid entertainment. Ray Winstone and John Hurt are wasted but the film still feels like an Indy adventure IMO. I'd go so far to say its marginally better than Temple of Doom. Why? I'd take Karen Allen over Kate Kapshaw anyday.

    Harrison likewise still has the charm and gruff appeal he demonstrated in the original trilogy.

    Also, I enjoyed the early action scene in the warehouse as well as the motorbike chase at the college campus. These certainly echoed the charm of the original three films and stuck out in my head. Likewise I really like the shot of Harrison with the mushroom cloud in the background - an iconic moment which symbolises the period of paranoia Indiana is now in.

    Finally I smiled at the scene when Shia Lebouf was about to put on the hat but Indy swipes it off him This shows that Indy may be old but he's stil the king :D

    It's little moments such as these which gave the film charm.

    I'd probably give it, along with Temple, a 6/10.

    (I do hope they DON'T make a 5th one though - its already gone full circle).
  • I think that Crystal skull was very good and entertaining, remember going to see it at the cinemas, and imediatelly wanting to rewatch it, even if the ending was a bit 'much', imo it's the one that i'd chose to simply overcome bordum :')
  • haserothaserot has returned like the tedious inevitability of an unloved season.
    edited March 2011 Posts: 4,009
    Quoting TheWizardOfIce: the stupid jump from cliff to tree and the implausibly unsurvivable triple waterfall plunge.
    that is actually more believable than jumping out of an airplane - landing safely on a raft, and then surviving another 1000 ft drop off a cliff and onto river rapids... as the guy in the video said in previous Indy video - the waterfall scene could very well be a ride at Universal, and it's far more believable to survive than what i mentioned above..
    Quoting TheWizardOfIce: The big jungle chase which is obviously in direct competition with the truck chase and the tank chase is an absolute joke. I would estimate its about 95% CGI and blue screen; I dont even think they left the studio to film it.
    i'll give you 60%, not 95%... again, like i said, watch the behind the scenes... obviously for a lot of the closeups and obviously some scenes were CGI'd... but they actually shot a lot of that on location in Hawaii - again... you'd be surprised...

    I am not saying it was some fantastic movie at all.... but i found it entertaining, and it captured the spirit of what the Indy movies have been all about from the start, an homage to the classic B movie adventure serials of 30s 40s and 50s... i could've done without some of dumb moments though - i thought there was just a tad too much... but again, in another video by that same reviewer he says it perfectly.. "today, audiences are far more critical, and less willing to suspend their disbelief - and that is the death of cinema"... i happen to agree.... it's a friggin' movie, just sit back and enjoy lol
    Quoting BAIN123: (I do hope they DON'T make a 5th one though - its already gone full circle).
    I've heard Spielberg is determined to do one last one.... if only, to end the series the right way... he understands the disappointment that Crystal Skull left fans with, so he wants to do one last one, to set the series back on course, and end it.... Harrison Ford has also gone on to say that he wants to do one last one - and then retire from acting.... So apparently George already has the idea, and is busy writing the script - i just hope it doesn't take another 20 years lol........ although, they never spent 20 years on Crystal Skull/City Of The Gods - anyone who believe they worked on it for that long is stupid.. they all had other stuff going on, and sure ideas had been kicked around for years, but nothing concrete started until a couple years before Crystal Skull started principal photography..
  • Posts: 4,196
    Quoting haserot: I've heard Spielberg is determined to do one last one.... if only, to end the series the right way... he understands the disappointment that Crystal Skull left fans with,
    I believe he did the same thing when he heard the TOD backlash, and then TLC ended up great! If he could pull that miracle off again, AND CUT BACK ON THE DAMN CGI, I would be up for Indy 5
  • Posts: 1,297
    But Temple of Doom was actually a good film. It was far more original than Last Crusade, which pretty much was a remake of Raiders of the Lost Ark. That being said, I might place Crusade a hair above Temple, but I honestly think that Temple of Doom may be one of the most underrated films ever.
  • haserothaserot has returned like the tedious inevitability of an unloved season.
    edited March 2011 Posts: 4,009
    i like all the Indiana Jones movies..

    if i had to rank them.. it would probably go..

    1.) Last Crusade
    2.) Raiders Of The Lost Ark
    3.) Temple Of Doom
    4.) Crystal Skull

    Crusade gets my top vote, because it evokes fond memories of my childhood - coming home from school, and watching this movie every day.. i'm surprised i didn't drive my stepdad nuts at the time :) .. i look back on it, as one of the films that has inspired me to want to become a filmmaker.... plus i love the personal story to it - it's not just about finding the Holy Grail, it's about finding that lost relationship between a father and a son..

    but much like Bond - my ranking is just in order of preference, and nothing more - i enjoy them all (unless we are talking DAD lol)..

    the thing with Temple Of Doom today is - is that it's had what? almost 25 years of air play on TV - it's had time to find it's place... but when it was released, it was thrashed to no end - almost like how Crystal Skull was... plus a lot of us (who weren't around to see it when it was new) are looking back on it with Nostalgia tinted glasses - we look back and just accept that it was a part of a trilogy, and it's just there - we didn't experience all the negative press that film received when it was released - and thus, we're free to make up our own opinions towards it... at least, that's how i feel about it..
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    edited March 2011 Posts: 7,007
    Quoting haserot: that is actually more believable than jumping out of an airplane - landing
    safely on a raft, and then surviving another 1000 ft drop off a cliff and onto
    river rapids... as the guy in the video said in previous Indy video - the
    waterfall scene could very well be a ride at Universal, and it's far more
    believable to survive than what i mentioned above..

    Afraid not. Go here and see the proof: www.youtube.com/watch?v=NODvOx0V57E

    To statistically sruvive a waterfall like that is improbable, 2 is a statistically preposterous coincidence, 3 now youre taking the p*ss.

    Take your point on the rose tinted glasses of nostalgia though, perhaps we were expecting too much but then surely Steven and Harrison must have felt in their heart that it wasnt up to scratch no matter how delusional George has become that he is still a great film maker so why didnt they do something?

    Although over time TOD has been singled out as the weakest of the trilogy I dont recall it getting slagged off to the same extent as Kingdom has been. And bear in mind it was following straight after Raiders. How poor would Kingdom have looked if it had been made a few years after instead of 30? Then again maybe its the time gap that makes it look so poor. If it had been made in 87 would we have just accepted it as a decent entry? Not sure about that - it really isnt very good.


  • Temple of Doom is the best one imho. Followed by Raiders. Crusade is alright, but not up to the standards of the first 2. I never saw KOTCS because I have no doubt that it's as bad as everyone says.
  • Posts: 4,196
    Oh well you should at least check it out. If you like Indy, I mean it IS an Indy movie.
    It's really not a horrible movie, just the weakest Indy movie, that's all
  • edited March 2011 Posts: 1,493
    1. Raiders
    2. Crusade
    3. Temple
    4. Kingdom

    KOTCS started out great with the 50's sci-fi/nuclear war paranoia vibe. Then it degenerated into one extended cheesy looking action sequence after another. Reminded me of Moonraker come to think of it.
  • Posts: 4,196
    Quoting JBFan626: Reminded me of Moonraker come to think of it.
    lol good point- one of those movies that started out great-- like Die Another Day
  • haserothaserot has returned like the tedious inevitability of an unloved season.
    edited March 2011 Posts: 4,009
    Quoting TheWizardOfIce: Afraid not. Go here and see the proof: www.youtube.com/watch?v=NODvOx0V57E
    first of all..... they are dropping a raft that's already been inflated.... if you recall, in Temple of Doom, it wasn't yet inflated - it was inflating on it's way down - which means the free fall would've no doubt shifted the weight in the raft...

    not to mention, they had the weight dispersed pretty evenly in that video, over the whole length of the raft - and the dummies are being held in by straps and wires - last time i checked "emergency parachute rafts" in the 1930s didn't come with all the crap they loaded that raft with..... bear in mind - the only thing holding Indy, Willy, and Short Round into the raft, was 1 rope - they weren't harassed in.... so again, as the raft is free falling and inflating, that would no doubt cause a shift in weight, which would've (and could've) sent Indy and company tumbling right out of the raft...

    not to mention they didn't follow this up by letting it slide off a 1,000 ft canyon right after..

    sorry, but i've never accepted this video as sound logic that you could survive that stunt if it were to actually happen - not to mention, just floating like a feather to the ground.... it's a load of crap..

    - this was a half-cocked experiment.. especially since the raft was pre-inflated..

    nonsense - total nonsense..
    Quoting TheWizardOfIce: Steven and Harrison must have felt in their heart that it wasnt up to scratch no matter how delusional George has become that he is still a great film maker so why didnt they do something?
    I have a lot of respect for Spielberg - I know it's in style to call the man a hack - but I can't.. i grew up on his films, and he's responsible for some of greatest films in history - as well a vast majority of my favorites... I know he was never sold on the idea of Aliens - I'm sorry "Inter-dimensional beings" - as they weren't supposed to be Aliens at all - THAT idea intrigued Steven when George told him - but when Steven asked what they'll look like, George said "Well, they'll just look like aliens.." (there is a whole video about this, and it's on the behind the scenes DVD) ....... in some way, I know Steven was all in on this movie - but I gotta believe it took a lot of convincing from Lucas..... and I'm sure during production, he had his doubts - but you don't tell your cast, crew - because that would be cancerous on a film set..... and in the end, you want to talk up what your working on, to sell it... you don't do interviews saying "I have this doubt and I have that doubt"...... so i gotta believe he humored George, and after the poor press and fan reaction, Steven is now aiming to set the series back on course - like he did with Crusade..
  • Posts: 911
    The video haserot posted is spot on. Love Indy. He rocks. Indy 4 was a fun adventure movie. It is a miracle we got another one at all. Just enjoy it for what it is.
  • Posts: 13,091
    It's four days old but here's what Karen Allen says on a possible fifth film.

    http://www.thedeadbolt.com/news/110494/karen_allen_indiana_jones_5.php

    I personally never think it'll happen but this gives out some hope. Does anyone here want another one?

    No guesses as to what Ford and Craig will be grilled about when promoting Cowboys & Aliens in July.
  • edited April 2011 Posts: 50
    Quoting The_Reaper: Indy 4 was a fun adventure movie.
    I agree. I have just as many issues with CRUSADE as I do with SKULL, namely gags being tacked onto the end of every decent scene, rendering the majority of the film as little more than a comedy and consistently undermining my involvement with what could have otherwise been a sincere and emotional father/son plot had it not been bloated to the gills with gags, the stupid dumbing down of great characters and some rather lazy RAIDERS re-treading. SKULL at least brings the character into new territory, and is a lot more in line with where the series was at ANYWAY (the hokey jokey CRUSADE) than the haters seem willing to acknowledge.

    But IMO, it's likely more just a case that the adults going to see SKULL weren't kids anymore.
  • haserothaserot has returned like the tedious inevitability of an unloved season.
    Posts: 4,009
    Quoting Samuel001: Does anyone here want another one?
    yes, i would love to have another Indy outing - as I enjoyed Crystal Skull for pretty much what it was - a fun entertaining adventure.. was it dumb at times? yes... did i roll my eyes at times, and wish they would've omitted certain things? yes... but i refuse to let small little moments within the film ruin it for me... - again, the series is full of dumb moments.... Crystal Skull definitely had more than it's fair share though..........

    speaking of which.... here is another fun video for all of you.... made by the same guy who made the video i posted above...


  • Posts: 4,820
    Quoting GeorgeLazenby: Temple of Doom is the best one imho. Followed by Raiders. Crusade is alright,
    but not up to the standards of the first 2. I never saw KOTCS because I have no
    doubt that it's as bad as everyone says.
    More or less echoed what I was going to say GL. I thought TOD was excellent. Crusade didn't flow as well as the first two, and I haven't seen the last one.
  • Posts: 911
    blockquote>Quoting Samuel001:
    It's four days old but here's what Karen Allen says on a
    possible fifth film.

    http://www.thedeadbolt.com/news/110494/karen_allen_indiana_jones_5.php


    I personally never think it'll happen but this gives out some hope. Does
    anyone here want another one?

    No guesses as to what Ford and Craig will
    be grilled about when promoting Cowboys & Aliens in July.


    Nice grab! Bring it on!
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    edited April 2011 Posts: 7,007
    Quoting haserot: I have a lot of respect for Spielberg - I know it's in style to call the man a
    hack - but I can't.. i grew up on his films, and he's responsible for some of
    greatest films in history - as well a vast majority of my favorites... I know he
    was never sold on the idea of Aliens - I'm sorry "Inter-dimensional beings" - as
    they weren't supposed to be Aliens at all - THAT idea intrigued Steven when
    George told him - but when Steven asked what they'll look like, George said
    "Well, they'll just look like aliens.." (there is a whole video about this, and
    it's on the behind the scenes DVD) ....... in some way, I know Steven was all in
    on this movie - but I gotta believe it took a lot of convincing from Lucas.....
    and I'm sure during production, he had his doubts - but you don't tell your
    cast, crew - because that would be cancerous on a film set..... and in the end,
    you want to talk up what your working on, to sell it... you don't do interviews
    saying "I have this doubt and I have that doubt"...... so i gotta believe he
    humored George, and after the poor press and fan reaction, Steven is now aiming
    to set the series back on course - like he did with Crusade..
    Finally we agree about something :)

  • Posts: 1,297
    So after a recent watching of the Indy franchise I have slightly revised my ratings.

    OLD RATINGS:
    Raiders of the Lost Ark (1981) - 10/10
    Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade (1989) - 9/10
    Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom (1984) - 9/10
    Indiana Jones and the Kingdom of the Crystal Skull (2008) - 6/10


    NEW RATINGS:
    Raiders of the Lost Ark (1981) - 10/10
    Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom (1984) - 9/10
    Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade (1989) - 9/10
    Indiana Jones and the Kingdom of the Crystal Skull (2008) - 7/10

    I finally managed to put Temple over Crusade by a hair, and a short one at that. To me it seemed that Crusade was a remake of Raiders and found Temple a little more refreshing, but the difference of those two films are negligible to me; they are both great. And I upgraded Skull from a 6/10 to a 7/10. It has grown on me, and while it is technically the worst Indy film with some questionable scenes (fridge, vine swinging), it still is great fun.

    It shouldn't even need to be mentioned that Raiders is still number one!!!!!!!!!!!
  • Posts: 911
    I get why people chose Crusade over Temple but I am glad to see someone put it into 2nd place for Indy like it should be. It is amazaingly fun and entertaining, Crusade is amazing too but a bit too family friendly at times.

    Raiders- 10/10, my #1 favorite film of all time
    Temple- 10/10, #16 of all time for me
    Crusade- 9.5/10, still awesome, somewhere in the Top 30 or so I think, haven't gone that deep for my all time rankings
    Krystal Skull- 8/10, great fun, better than people give it credit for
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