Moonraker : appreciation or hate?

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  • PrinceKamalKhanPrinceKamalKhan Monsoon Palace, Udaipur
    Posts: 2,456
    Roger Moore has no depth ? please !! go watch 'The Man Who Haunted Himself'...

    Agreed. Moore showed more depth in the MR centrifuge trainer scene alone than Brosnan did in all 4 of his Bond films.

  • edited May 2012 Posts: 11,168
    Roger Moore has no depth ? please !! go watch 'The Man Who Haunted Himself'...

    Agreed. Moore showed more depth in the MR centrifuge trainer scene alone than Brosnan did in all 4 of his Bond films.

    That's a tad harsh. What about the graveyard scene in GE?


    Or even the subway scene with M in DAD?
  • PrinceKamalKhanPrinceKamalKhan Monsoon Palace, Udaipur
    Posts: 2,456
    Bean owns that graveyard scene in GE. Every time I see it I wish Dalton was acting opposite Bean instead.
  • edited May 2012 Posts: 11,168
    Bean owns that graveyard scene in GE. Every time I see it I wish Dalton was acting opposite Bean instead.

    I don't. I was watching the scene yesterday. While it does have a bit of a "Dalton feel" to it I thought Brosnan was fine. What does he do wrong performance wise? He looks confused and worried? Like you probably would in that situation.
  • PrinceKamalKhanPrinceKamalKhan Monsoon Palace, Udaipur
    edited May 2012 Posts: 2,456
    I think he comes across like an emotionless block of wood.
  • Posts: 11,168
    I think he comes across like an emotionless block of wood.

    I think its one of his better moments in GE.
  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    edited May 2012 Posts: 13,312
    I agree with @BAIN123 - Brosnan was great in that scene.
  • edited May 2012 Posts: 12,037
    Roger Moore has no depth ? please !! go watch 'The Man Who Haunted Himself'...

    Agreed. Moore showed more depth in the MR centrifuge trainer scene alone than Brosnan did in all 4 of his Bond films.

    Was there any need for that? Did you have to find some way of criticising Brosnans Bond (which me and other people like)? This thread has nothing to do with him. You could've just said that Moore shows alot of depth in that scene.
  • ShardlakeShardlake Leeds, West Yorkshire, England
    Posts: 3,366
    Roger Moore has no depth ? please !! go watch 'The Man Who Haunted Himself'...

    One film you've chosen I bet you can't come with much more outside of Bond, he not a block of wood but please don't make him out to be a talented actor because he's a film star and that is it, that film you mention is a rare example, he pretty much plays the same character in everything else.

  • Posts: 1,497
    I came across this review of MR by the late Vincent Canby which I found poignant:

    <url>http://movies.nytimes.com/movie/review?res=EE05E7DF1731E36EBC4151DFB0668382669EDE&amp;partner=Rotten Tomatoes&lt;/url&gt;

    "Almost everyone connected with the movie is in top form, even Mr. Moore, who has a tendency to facetiousness when left to his own devices. Here he's as ageless, resourceful, and graceful as the character he inhabits. "
  • Posts: 974


    *grins*
  • edited May 2012 Posts: 228
    moonraker the film was not only a disgrace to bond fans, but a disgrace to Ian Fleming and the book. The director (Lewis Gilbert )and production team must have been on LSD while making moonraker. Moonraker
    should definitely be remade into a serious realistic script as the book intended, especially with today's cinematography effects and how were all living in a digital / technology age it would make great sense. In fact all the Moore films that used official Fleming book titles should be remade .Its a disgrace to keep TMWTG as it is, the film was a joke as well. Christopher Lee and Roger Moore against each other was like watching two old men with alzheimers play hide and go seek.
  • Posts: 7,146
    moonraker the film was not only a disgrace to bond fans, but a disgrace to Ian Fleming and the book. The director (Lewis Gilbert )and production team must have been on LSD while making moonraker. Moonraker
    should definitely be remade into a serious realistic script as the book intended, especially with today's cinematography effects and how were all living in a digital / technology age it would make great sense. In fact all the Moore films that used official Fleming book titles should be remade .Its a disgrace to keep TMWTG as it is, the film was a joke as well. Christopher Lee and Roger Moore against each other was like watching two old men with alzheimers play hide and go seek.

    So I take it you are not a Roger Moore fan?

    O:-)
  • Posts: 228
    Ha ! no I am not a Moore 007 fan. I do enjoy him in the saint and he seems like a very likable and humble fellow. I just cannot grasp any authenticity of his portrayal as Bond.
  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    edited May 2012 Posts: 13,312
    Shardlake wrote:
    Roger Moore has no depth ? please !! go watch 'The Man Who Haunted Himself'...

    One film you've chosen I bet you can't come with much more outside of Bond, he not a block of wood but please don't make him out to be a talented actor because he's a film star and that is it, that film you mention is a rare example, he pretty much plays the same character in everything else.

    8-X

    'North Sea Hijack', 'The Wild Geese', 'A Princess for Christmas'.... plenty of films where Sir Rog displays great acting talent.
  • Posts: 228
    lets not forget his best performance ," Boat Trip".


    http://m.imdb.com/title/tt0285462/
  • Posts: 10,712
    Ha ! no I am not a Moore 007 fan. I do enjoy him in the saint and he seems like a very likable and humble fellow. I just cannot grasp any authenticity of his portrayal as Bond.

    You are missing the point of Roger, which was neither to bring Fleming to the screen nor to offer a deep character deconstruction of Bond. Roger is an entertainer and a brilliant one. I feel sorry for any one who cannot appreciate his Bond. Roger's Bond is a delight.
  • edited May 2012 Posts: 228
    Getafix wrote:
    Ha ! no I am not a Moore 007 fan. I do enjoy him in the saint and he seems like a very likable and humble fellow. I just cannot grasp any authenticity of his portrayal as Bond.

    You are missing the point of Roger, which was neither to bring Fleming to the screen nor to offer a deep character deconstruction of Bond. Roger is an entertainer and a brilliant one. I feel sorry for any one who cannot appreciate his Bond. Roger's Bond is a delight.

    I'm a fan of Ian Fleming's James Bond, not silly action, out of place villains ,ridiculous stunts or constant one liners coming from an old man trying to act like a cliched secret agent . Give me substance, serious acting, realistic plots and the way James Bond was intended to be, serious and to The point, no jumping over alligators or hanging off a jumbo blimp in San Francisco. Moore's tenure in my opinion isn't james bond, its in the same category as Austin Powers is for me, just a big spoof.
  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    edited May 2012 Posts: 13,312
    I'm a fan of Ian Fleming's James Bond, not silly action, out of place villains ,ridiculous stunts or constant one liners coming from an old man trying to act like a cliched secret agent . Give me substance, serious acting, realistic plots and the way James Bond was intended to be, serious and to The point, no jumping over alligators or hanging off a jumbo blimp in San Francisco. Moore's tenure in my opinion isn't james bond, its in the same category as Austin Powers is for me, just a big spoof.

    Eh ? James Bond was never meant to be realistic ! Fleming's Bond is much closer to Moore in TMWTGG, than to Craig's Bond ! The 2 Craig movies have nothing, nothing in common with Fleming's Bond apart from the name 'James Bond'. Even Brosnan in DAD is much, much closer to Fleming's Bond than Craig. I don't know if you read any of the Fleming novels, but the films DAF, LALD and TMWTGG are much closer to Fleming than Craig's CR and QOS. Whenever I read Fleming I picture Moore as Bond.

  • Posts: 228
    yep, Moore was everything Ian Fleming imagined as 007, you win DaltonCraig.
    no not really.....


    The 2 Craig films have nothing in common with Ian Fleming. Im assuming you never read or saw CR. If you did you would know Casino Royal is one of the few, if not only bond film that relied heavily on the original book. The 2 kills earned for double O status, vespers betrayal to bond, the torturing scene...I can go on and on, for you to say CR 2006 has no relevance to Fleming's Style of Bond is not only absurd, but just flat out bedazzling.

    Everything you just said DaltonCraig007 is what applies to Moore. Daniel Craig is a blunt instrument, here's Yuri Zhukov's description of Ian Fleming's bond ",

    Yuri Zhukov, Pravda, 30
    September 1965

    "James Bond lives in a
    nightmarish world where laws
    are written at the point of a
    gun, where coercion and rape
    are considered valour and
    murder is a funny
    trick….Bond's job is to guard
    the interests of the property
    class, and he is no better than
    the youths Hitler boasted he
    would bring up like wild
    beasts to be able to kill
    without thinking."

    That doesnt sound too much like Roger Moore too me, but it does sound like Connery or Craigs style of Bond.

    Point concluded.
  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    edited May 2012 Posts: 13,312
    I have read every Fleming novels many times, and for me Roger Moore is much closer to Fleming's Bond than Craig. CR 2006 has nothing to do with James Bond, or Ian Fleming's James Bond... it completly butchered the original novel.

    @TouchmyButtons you are not the holder of truth on Fleming or Bond here, not everyone follows your opinion.... I think you are very much mistaken on Craig and Fleming, and my opinion is that Craig is nothing like Fleming, CR 2006 is nothing like Fleming. For me Sir Rog is far closer to Fleming than Craig, and TMWTGG '74 is one of the most Flemingesque Bond film.
  • edited May 2012 Posts: 12,037
    @TouchMyButtons Moore was meant to be a fun, entertaining Bond and he was. He was great. And without Moore, then the series probably wouldn't have lasted, and we wouldn't have gotten Craig who you love so much. Moore isn't my favourite (Dalton has that honour), but he's a great James Bond and an all round great guy.
    Casino Royal is one of the few, if not only bond film that relied heavily on the original book. The 2 kills earned for double O status, vespers betrayal to bond, the torturing scene.

    The 2 kills he did to earn 00 status were different actually (in the book I think one was with a sniper rifle and the other a bedroom fight), Vespers betrayal was also different.
    I'm a fan of Ian Fleming's James Bond, not silly action, out of place villains ,ridiculous stunts or constant one liners coming from an old man trying to act like a cliched secret agent . Give me substance, serious acting, realistic plots and the way James Bond was intended to be, serious and to The point, no jumping over alligators or hanging off a jumbo blimp in San Francisco. Moore's tenure in my opinion isn't james bond, its in the same category as Austin Powers is for me, just a big spoof.

    The alligator stunt was real, so were most of the other stunts. The villians in Moore's films were good and memorable, much better than the villians in the modern Bond films, and Moore wasn't looking old until OP.

    Also, Moore isn't a "cliche secret agent" because Moore and Connery STARTED the cliche. Back in the 70s, none of that was cliche. Plus, you're unfairly stereotyping Moore. He had plenty of dark, serious moments.
  • Posts: 228
    you know what Dalton Craig, im really starting to like your presence around here, you give off a warm cozy feeling. god bless you man
  • Roger Moore was a great James Bond, on par with Sean Connery. He made amazing films which were all enjoyable and really good and featured many examples of what makes a Bond movie a Bond movie. People forget the era sometimes. CR is praised now and when it was released. But if CR was proposed in the Moore era, it would have been wasted because that's not what the series needed (after MR, the series did need the tense quality of FYEO and OP).

    So hate all you want about Moore and his movies. You can't erase them. What you fail to realise is the Bond series isn't set in stone. It doesn't HAVE to be Fleming Fleming Fleming, CRaig Craig Craig. It's a fluid system that can use and interchange different themes and ideas in different times. No one expects SF to have Moore-esque performance by Craig or have a similar plot to MR. But whose to say in 10, 20 years we won't have another Bond like Moore and films of that much?

    MR rocks and so does Moore!
  • Posts: 228
    Seriously though EON should do Fleming justice and make a film strictly based Moonraker's actual criteria. The film was garbage, perhaps worse than DAD. Actually if i had to choose I would definitely pick DAD over MR.
  • Seriously though EON should do Fleming justice and make a film strictly based Moonraker's actual criteria. The film was garbage, perhaps worse than DAD. Actually if i had to choose I would definitely pick DAD over MR.

    MR novel has a lot of similarities with DAD
  • Posts: 228
    Yes I've heared that before, one being the word blades used for the club in DAD. Can you name any other similarities?
  • The villain appeared to be something/someone he wasn't

    The use of a weapon in space
  • edited May 2012 Posts: 228
    .lol those may be similarities, but very very VERY minor ones and still does no real justice for MR (novel) .

    but thank you for answering the question.
  • Posts: 228
    Actually we were both wrong, there are more references from MR that were interpreted into DAD. I found a good article here about it all


    http://www.hmss.com/films/dad/p&w/
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