NO TIME TO DIE (2021) - First Reactions vs. Current Reactions

1260261263265266298

Comments

  • DoctorKaufmannDoctorKaufmann Can shoot you from Stuttgart and still make it look like suicide.
    edited June 2022 Posts: 1,261
    MI6HQ wrote: »
    It was Craig's idea to kill the character off, he's the reason for Boyle's departure, he didn't liked Boyle's idea.

    Boyle said repeatedly, that Bond being killed was there on the table, when he signed. It was a conditio sine qua non. He said, he quit, because EON wanted additional screenwriters to overhaul the Hodge script, and that Boyle did not want this, so he walked. Hodge said, he believes, BB and MGW just wanted to get rid off him and keep Boyle, but that Boyle took the bullet for him.

  • VenutiusVenutius Yorkshire
    edited June 2022 Posts: 2,898
    Yes, everyone's been quite clear that Bond was always going to die at the end of the film. Boyle's also been clear about why he left, saying that EON didn't like the Hodge script and wanted to dump both it and Hodge, but keep Boyle. Boyle said something like 'I work in partnership with a writer and I didn't want to break that up' so he quit. I really don't like Boyle's films, but I do admire him for sticking by his mate.
  • SIS_HQSIS_HQ At the Vauxhall Headquarters
    Posts: 3,382
    This topic of Bond got killed has been the apple of the eye of the Bond community.
    That moment really affects us fans.
    It overshadowed everything happened in the film.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,000
    MI6HQ wrote: »
    This topic of Bond got killed has been the apple of the eye of the Bond community.
    That moment really affects us fans.
    It overshadowed everything happened in the film.

    That’s their problem. They just need to get over it and move on. There’s no point in dwelling over it.
  • Jordo007Jordo007 Merseyside
    Posts: 2,483
    MI6HQ wrote: »
    This topic of Bond got killed has been the apple of the eye of the Bond community.
    That moment really affects us fans.
    It overshadowed everything happened in the film.

    No matter the quality of the film, the death of Bond was always going to overshadow it unfortunately. I'm sure the producers must have realised that themselves
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,000
    They most certainly knew there would be hardliner fans against it, but felt it was still worth the risk. I’m glad they took it.
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 8,266
    Exactly @MakeshiftPython … they knew that the death of Bond would not go over well with some of their audience. But the risk was worth it— and the gamble paid off: It was a box office success in a swirling pandemic, most critics and audiences gave it positive reviews and for once, the actor in the role was retired on the back of a very good and interesting film.

    There is a lot riding on these films, so I always assume that the producers and their partners speak about these plot points up and down, side to side, and weigh all pros and cons before they make a decision; and the decision to kill Bond was no different: EoN had to get their distribution partners on board with this (after all, it’s their job to sell the film and if a major plot point was seen as absolutely unpalatable and not worth the risk, I don’t think we would have seen James Bond get blown to smithereens).
  • GadgetManGadgetMan Lagos, Nigeria
    Posts: 4,247
    I don't dislike NTTD, but my main issue with the film is the comedy that really eats into a Bond film aiming for the tragic Greek hero style. If only the entire film maintained the dangerous Matera feel.
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 8,266
    Making a film is about creating moments and twists and different tones. If a film was just one tone, or a series just had the feel of QOS over five films, the film and/or series becomes dull and predictable, boring and, yes, one note.
  • DoctorKaufmannDoctorKaufmann Can shoot you from Stuttgart and still make it look like suicide.
    edited June 2022 Posts: 1,261
    They most certainly knew there would be hardliner fans against it, but felt it was still worth the risk. I’m glad they took it.

    They definitely knew, that they would get harsh criticism from at least one part of the audience. Nevertheless, they took the risk (and not ending with a lame "the autopilot has been fixed by Bruce Wayne" in THE DARK KNIGHT RISES). And I am glad, they took the risk. Yet I can understand people loathe it. But maybe they should move on. After almost nine months. NTTD is the film we got, and the ending is the ending we got. Whether you like it or not. Oh, that rhyme was intentional. ;) :D
  • GadgetManGadgetMan Lagos, Nigeria
    Posts: 4,247
    peter wrote: »
    Making a film is about creating moments and twists and different tones. If a film was just one tone, or a series just had the feel of QOS over five films, the film and/or series becomes dull and predictable, boring and, yes, one note.

    Yeah, sure. I get that. I feel it works if the balance is right, like previous Bond films. The comedy was just too heavy. It was becoming very obvious that David Dencik was very happy to be in a Bond film and was really determined to enjoy himself.
  • slide_99slide_99 USA
    Posts: 649
    They most certainly knew there would be hardliner fans against it, but felt it was still worth the risk. I’m glad they took it.

    They definitely knew, that they would get harsh criticism from at least one part of the audience. Nevertheless, they took the risk (and not ending with a lame "the autopilot has been fixed by Bruce Wayne" in THE DARK KNIGHT RISES). A:D

    This is an interesting comment because I didn't think much of TDKR overall but I thought its ending was perfect. In Batman "dying" while saving Gotham, Bruce has ensured that Batman will live on as an indestructible symbol of justice for the city long after he's gone. Simultaneously, Bruce has seen the truth in Alfred's words about Gotham being only a place of personal suffering for him. In leaving Gotham and forging a new life for himself abroad, Bruce has finally gotten over the deaths of his parents and his own personal quest for vengeance, and is now allowed to live a normal life.

    Christopher Nolan gave Batman and Bruce, as separate characters, their own personal victories with that ending. It's not about risk-taking or staying safe, it's about crafting an ending that's appropriate and satisfying.

    Like so many previous times in the Craig era (Silva wanting to be captured, etc), the Bond producers tried to copy Nolan without understanding why he did what he did. They too wanted to turn Craig's Bond into a legend with the "self-sacrifice to save the world" thing, only it doesn't work in Bond's context because anyone can wear a cape and cowl but only Bond can be Bond, meaning that when Craig's Bond is killed, all it means is that he's left his wife a widow and his daughter fatherless.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,000
    Did you finally watch NTTD?
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 8,266
    @slide_99 … have you watched the film? I’d love to actually hear your thoughts when you do see it. But cutting and pasting scenes off of YouTube and reading articles that feed a certain narrative isn’t close to actually experiencing it and then having an educated opinion on the subject.

    If I’m being honest, I find your approach lazy.
  • Jordo007Jordo007 Merseyside
    Posts: 2,483
    GadgetMan wrote: »
    I don't dislike NTTD, but my main issue with the film is the comedy that really eats into a Bond film aiming for the tragic Greek hero style. If only the entire film maintained the dangerous Matera feel.

    I completely agree on the Matera feel, it felt dangerous like TLD did when it was in Bratislava. That's exactly the vibe I want from Bond
  • GadgetManGadgetMan Lagos, Nigeria
    Posts: 4,247
    Jordo007 wrote: »
    GadgetMan wrote: »
    I don't dislike NTTD, but my main issue with the film is the comedy that really eats into a Bond film aiming for the tragic Greek hero style. If only the entire film maintained the dangerous Matera feel.

    I completely agree on the Matera feel, it felt dangerous like TLD did when it was in Bratislava. That's exactly the vibe I want from Bond

    Exactly! Right you are.
  • JustJamesJustJames London
    edited June 2022 Posts: 203
    slide_99 wrote: »
    They most certainly knew there would be hardliner fans against it, but felt it was still worth the risk. I’m glad they took it.

    They definitely knew, that they would get harsh criticism from at least one part of the audience. Nevertheless, they took the risk (and not ending with a lame "the autopilot has been fixed by Bruce Wayne" in THE DARK KNIGHT RISES). A:D

    This is an interesting comment because I didn't think much of TDKR overall but I thought its ending was perfect. In Batman "dying" while saving Gotham, Bruce has ensured that Batman will live on as an indestructible symbol of justice for the city long after he's gone. Simultaneously, Bruce has seen the truth in Alfred's words about Gotham being only a place of personal suffering for him. In leaving Gotham and forging a new life for himself abroad, Bruce has finally gotten over the deaths of his parents and his own personal quest for vengeance, and is now allowed to live a normal life.

    Christopher Nolan gave Batman and Bruce, as separate characters, their own personal victories with that ending. It's not about risk-taking or staying safe, it's about crafting an ending that's appropriate and satisfying.

    Like so many previous times in the Craig era (Silva wanting to be captured, etc), the Bond producers tried to copy Nolan without understanding why he did what he did. They too wanted to turn Craig's Bond into a legend with the "self-sacrifice to save the world" thing, only it doesn't work in Bond's context because anyone can wear a cape and cowl but only Bond can be Bond, meaning that when Craig's Bond is killed, all it means is that he's left his wife a widow and his daughter fatherless.

    Except… that isn’t what happened is it?
    Not least as Bond and Madeline weren’t married.
    There’s not really any parity between the Nolan Batmans and the Bonds apart from two tenuous links in similar plot points that occur in tons of narratives, and the fact that Batman got a new set of adaptations with an origin story around the same time Bond did. (And given they had just got the rights to Casino Royale, it was really bound to happen.)

    Edit to add: Bond didn’t self sacrifice to save the world, so much as to protect M & M. Lots of Ms.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,000
    Bond carried the disease that would kill “millions”, which included Madeleine and his daughter. But the movie put more emphasis on the latter because it’s more emotionally pointed and less abstract than saving the world.
  • RichardTheBruceRichardTheBruce I'm motivated by my Duty.
    Posts: 12,916
    I took it Safin's special nanobot strain in the necklace was specific to Madeleine and Mathilde, the original targeting intent. Perfect asssassin.

    Makes sense to me Safin would do that, since once released there would be no other evidence of it passing through a population. But it would eventually find its mark with no warning. Inevitable.

  • Posts: 6,682
    I took it Safin's special nanobot strain in the necklace was specific to Madeleine and Mathilde, the original targeting intent. Perfect asssassin.

    Same here.
  • DoctorKaufmannDoctorKaufmann Can shoot you from Stuttgart and still make it look like suicide.
    edited June 2022 Posts: 1,261
    I don't think, slide actually watched NTTD. And if he did, he would not tell us. At least he watched THE DARK KNIGHT RISES. I suppose, that's something.
  • VenutiusVenutius Yorkshire
    Posts: 2,898
    Jordo007 wrote: »
    I completely agree on the Matera feel, it felt dangerous like TLD did when it was in Bratislava. That's exactly the vibe I want from Bond

    Same. The tonal shift to Hugh Dennis and soup gags fell with quite a clunk to me.
  • JustJamesJustJames London
    Posts: 203
    Bond carried the disease that would kill “millions”, which included Madeleine and his daughter. But the movie put more emphasis on the latter because it’s more emotionally pointed and less abstract than saving the world.

    It was a programmed weapon. It would literally *only* kill M & M.
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    Posts: 5,921
    Yes, that why it is made very clear that Safin wants a lock of Madeleine's hair. This programmed weapon is Bond's "reason to die."
  • SIS_HQSIS_HQ At the Vauxhall Headquarters
    edited June 2022 Posts: 3,382
    Charlie Higson's opinions about No Time To Die.

    Author behind Young Bond series criticises the latest film No Time To Die for portraying 007 as a boring family man

    Charlie Higson joked that 007 should have triggered his girlfriend's ejector seat and resumed his adventure. The author 'absolutely hated' the flick as it was like watching 007 'mow the lawn'.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10953127/Young-Bond-author-calls-007-boring-family-man-latest-film-No-Time-Die.html#article-10953127
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    MI6HQ wrote: »
    Charlie Higson's opinions about No Time To Die.

    Author behind Young Bond series criticises the latest film No Time To Die for portraying 007 as a boring family man

    Charlie Higson joked that 007 should have triggered his girlfriend's ejector seat and resumed his adventure. The author 'absolutely hated' the flick as it was like watching 007 'mow the lawn'.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10953127/Young-Bond-author-calls-007-boring-family-man-latest-film-No-Time-Die.html#article-10953127

    Higson complaining about Bond having a backstory? I would rather watch a film with Bond briefly as a family man, than read a book series about Bond as a little boy, but that s just me.
  • NoTimeToLiveNoTimeToLive Jamaica
    Posts: 66
    MI6HQ wrote: »
    Charlie Higson's opinions about No Time To Die.

    Author behind Young Bond series criticises the latest film No Time To Die for portraying 007 as a boring family man

    Charlie Higson joked that 007 should have triggered his girlfriend's ejector seat and resumed his adventure. The author 'absolutely hated' the flick as it was like watching 007 'mow the lawn'.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10953127/Young-Bond-author-calls-007-boring-family-man-latest-film-No-Time-Die.html#article-10953127

    Higson complaining about Bond having a backstory? I would rather watch a film with Bond briefly as a family man, than read a book series about Bond as a little boy, but that s just me.

    Agreed.
  • Posts: 6,682
    MI6HQ wrote: »
    Charlie Higson's opinions about No Time To Die.

    Author behind Young Bond series criticises the latest film No Time To Die for portraying 007 as a boring family man

    Charlie Higson joked that 007 should have triggered his girlfriend's ejector seat and resumed his adventure. The author 'absolutely hated' the flick as it was like watching 007 'mow the lawn'.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10953127/Young-Bond-author-calls-007-boring-family-man-latest-film-No-Time-Die.html#article-10953127

    Higson complaining about Bond having a backstory? I would rather watch a film with Bond briefly as a family man, than read a book series about Bond as a little boy, but that s just me.

    I can watch films or read books in any situation. Whether I'm single, or a family man. Whether I'm grown up, or a little boy. I enjoy them all the same.
  • JustJamesJustJames London
    edited June 2022 Posts: 203
    Bond as a man *considering having a family* (which is what really happened, he wasn’t doing the school run in a DB5, or using his watch laser to open childproof packaging in sheer desperation) was an excellent thing to see. If you want Bond to be a little more than a comic-strip character form, it’s exactly the thing we want to see. (Especially if you are a man of a certain age and background… I liked seeing him peel an apple for a kid.)
    The mistake that Bourne has made has actually been by going in the *opposite* direction. From the moment Franka Potente floated away in the second one, it’s become less and less a ‘normal’ man who was made a victim of the military-industrial complex and only wanted a ‘normal’ life into standard revenge-flick fare. Culminating in the last one where he was basically never a normal man to begin with.
    Bond has worked in the opposite direction almost, and has been all the better for it, overall.
    In short, it had an injection of Deighton alongside the Fleming, and benefitted greatly.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 14,861
    Yeah I had no objections with seeing Bond coming to terms with having a family, I found it rather thrilling actually. And it made perfect sense that that would be his reason to die.
    I have issues with the film, but I think those bits work.
Sign In or Register to comment.