NO TIME TO DIE (2021) - First Reactions vs. Current Reactions

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  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,372
    It's only natural; it's the honeymoon phase. Once the "newness" has worn off, any cracks or subjective issues become more apparent and the film isn't as "perfect" as some might have seen it as.
  • jake24jake24 Sitting at your desk, kissing your lover, eating supper with your familyModerator
    edited April 2022 Posts: 10,586
    Creasy47 wrote: »
    It's only natural; it's the honeymoon phase. Once the "newness" has worn off, any cracks or subjective issues become more apparent and the film isn't as "perfect" as some might have seen it as.
    Another issue is that a lot of devoted fans will watch the film countless times to the point where it loses all objectivity. The constant analysis of the film inevitably brings out its flaws. Most people don’t watch films this way but it’s the price one pays as a lover of cinema.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    edited April 2022 Posts: 40,372
    jake24 wrote: »
    Creasy47 wrote: »
    It's only natural; it's the honeymoon phase. Once the "newness" has worn off, any cracks or subjective issues become more apparent and the film isn't as "perfect" as some might have seen it as.
    Another issue is that a lot of devoted fans will watch the film countless times to the point where it loses all objectivity. The constant analysis of the film inevitably brings out its flaws. Most people don’t watch films this way but it’s the price one pays as a lover of cinema.

    Spot on. It's certainly happened to me.
  • Posts: 12,837
    jake24 wrote: »
    Creasy47 wrote: »
    It's only natural; it's the honeymoon phase. Once the "newness" has worn off, any cracks or subjective issues become more apparent and the film isn't as "perfect" as some might have seen it as.
    Another issue is that a lot of devoted fans will watch the film countless times to the point where it loses all objectivity. The constant analysis of the film inevitably brings out its flaws. Most people don’t watch films this way but it’s the price one pays as a lover of cinema.

    Very true. I remember relentlessly analysing SF in the wake of that film’s release and the big debates it sparked on here. Really started to sour on it after a while. But when I watched it again for the first time in a while a few years later, I found myself being swept up in the atmosphere of it again, just like I was in the cinema. Suddenly the buzz it had was back and the plot holes didn’t seem like the end of the world anymore.
  • edited April 2022 Posts: 1,394
    Creasy47 wrote: »
    It's only natural; it's the honeymoon phase. Once the "newness" has worn off, any cracks or subjective issues become more apparent and the film isn't as "perfect" as some might have seen it as.

    Or maybe the film isn’t all that great and it doesn’t stand up to scrutiny? Looking at the first reactions thread around the time of release,there seemed to be a lot of divisiveness over the film.More for the ending than anything else.

    I think it will continue to be a divisive film.I think it’s a good movie and an improvement on Spectre and QOS,but that’s hardly a ringing endorsement.

  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,372
    AstonLotus wrote: »
    Creasy47 wrote: »
    It's only natural; it's the honeymoon phase. Once the "newness" has worn off, any cracks or subjective issues become more apparent and the film isn't as "perfect" as some might have seen it as.

    Or maybe the film isn’t all that great and it doesn’t stand up to scrutiny? Looking at the first reactions thread around the time of release,there seemed to be a lot of divisiveness over the film.More for the ending than anything else.

    I think it will continue to be a divisive film.I think it’s a good movie and an improvement on Spectre and QOS,but that’s hardly a ringing endorsement.

    I'm speaking about films as a whole; once the honeymoon phase ends, people are going to be more critical. I'm not insinuating everyone absolutely loved the film upon first watch, cause that's clearly not true.

    I thought it'd top CR as my second favorite of the Craig era but the emotion and drama of the finale quickly wore off for me and it'll likely forever remain my third favorite (not a tough undertaking, considering my distaste for SF and especially SP).
  • Posts: 52
    I will try to re-watch NTTD when it appears on Amazon, this will be the first time since I saw it at the cinema and I'm not expecting to make it all the way through. It will be interesting if I can pull any more positives from it second time round or if it remains the soul bludgeoning car crash I witnessed first time around.
  • Posts: 988
    Like you, I can't bring myself to buy it, but I do have a digital copy and have watched it a few times trying to find some joy. I think the Cuba sequence kind of hints at the good old-fashioned style fun Bond film we used to get. And the cinematography and music I like too.
    I also liked the bonkers sci-fi nanobot plot too. It's like there's a good Bond film in there somewhere, colliding with this tragic action-romance thing.
    My favourite bit was the Cuba plate throw/drink gulp. Made it feel like the classic era films in that one little bit.
  • Posts: 52
    The 15/20 mins with Ana de Armas was certainly the most enjoyable part in the cinema, Craig playing it much more like old school Bond and Ana was bonkers fun.
  • Jordo007Jordo007 Merseyside
    Posts: 2,483
    EDDIEVH wrote: »
    The 15/20 mins with Ana de Armas was certainly the most enjoyable part in the cinema, Craig playing it much more like old school Bond and Ana was bonkers fun.

    The last time I watched NTTD, my heart sunk when Paloma says "this is my stop" to Bond because it feels like there's a great adventure there with her, rather than continuing on with wrapping things up from Spectre.

    My only criticism of that sequence is it is a bit jarring, it terms of tone. I wish the action would have been more full on and less machine gunning. Still a highlight of the film for me
  • VenutiusVenutius Yorkshire
    Posts: 2,897
    Cuba goes a bit daft, but Ana's glorious. Yet how could we have Paloma's 'bonkers fun' without the daft context? It's a dilemma, all right...
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,372
    Jordo007 wrote: »
    EDDIEVH wrote: »
    The 15/20 mins with Ana de Armas was certainly the most enjoyable part in the cinema, Craig playing it much more like old school Bond and Ana was bonkers fun.

    The last time I watched NTTD, my heart sunk when Paloma says "this is my stop" to Bond because it feels like there's a great adventure there with her, rather than continuing on with wrapping things up from Spectre.

    My only criticism of that sequence is it is a bit jarring, it terms of tone. I wish the action would have been more full on and less machine gunning. Still a highlight of the film for me

    Agreed about the machine gunning bit. I tune out at that part, similar to how I feel with Craig's crater escape in SP. It just feels so hollow and empty, no real danger present.
  • Jordo007Jordo007 Merseyside
    Posts: 2,483
    Yep you've hit the nail on the head there mate. There's no danger
  • GadgetManGadgetMan Lagos, Nigeria
    edited April 2022 Posts: 4,247
    I don't know, I think to make it more Bondian and extraordinary, the Cuba sequence in NTTD needed...maybe something like causing a deliberate flood. Maybe Bond shoots open a Spectre giant aquarium and deadly fishes join the party, as the fight ensues in the flood. Then the Crater base escape in SP, needed something like a sandstorm in the action with Blofeld's men in cars and helicopters moving in the sandstorm, and Madeleine sticking close to Bond as he fights them and eventually taking the helicopter to escape, then they film that record explosion properly, as it explodes behind Bond and Madeleine in the helicopter getting away.
  • Last_Rat_StandingLast_Rat_Standing Long Neck Ice Cold Beer Never Broke My Heart
    Posts: 4,382
    I haven't watched it in full since my only theater viewing. Usually I'll buy them day of release but just couldn't do it. And it stinks because there's so much to enjoy and that I did enjoy within it. It could be that I'd buy it, maybe watch it once or twice and then it'll sit on my shelf for years. I've watched the ending on YouTube to mentally prepare myself for a full viewing but still have yet to pull the trigger and just buy it and watch in its entirety. I thought it was going to be an Amazon this past weekend, but it's only for UK citizens.
  • Jordo007Jordo007 Merseyside
    Posts: 2,483
    I watched OHMSS recently (I enjoyed more than I ever have) and I forgot how much the We Have All The Time In The World theme plays whenever Tracy is on screen.

    The reuse of that particular cue and then as the credit song didn't sit well with me initially, but after watching OHMSS again, it really feels wrong to reuse that piece of music.
    It's exquisite and whenever I hear it I think of Tracy, the same way I think of Vesper when I think of Vesper's theme.

    I wish Zimmer would have reused Madeline's theme from Spectre or create something new for her and Bond's relationship, maybe then it would cement their relationship in my mind. Also it would discourage me from comparing her to Bond's previous loves
  • VenutiusVenutius Yorkshire
    Posts: 2,897
    Yes, quite an oversight not to re-use Madeleine's theme from SP. Shame.
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    Posts: 5,921
    GadgetMan wrote: »
    I don't know, I think to make it more Bondian and extraordinary, the Cuba sequence in NTTD needed...maybe something like causing a deliberate flood. Maybe Bond shoots open a Spectre giant aquarium and deadly fishes join the party, as the fight ensues in the flood. Then the Crater base escape in SP, needed something like a sandstorm in the action with Blofeld's men in cars and helicopters moving in the sandstorm, and Madeleine sticking close to Bond as he fights them and eventually taking the helicopter to escape, then they film that record explosion properly, as it explodes behind Bond and Madeleine in the helicopter getting away.
    I haven't watched it in full since my only theater viewing. Usually I'll buy them day of release but just couldn't do it. And it stinks because there's so much to enjoy and that I did enjoy within it. It could be that I'd buy it, maybe watch it once or twice and then it'll sit on my shelf for years. I've watched the ending on YouTube to mentally prepare myself for a full viewing but still have yet to pull the trigger and just buy it and watch in its entirety. I thought it was going to be an Amazon this past weekend, but it's only for UK citizens.

    Mission Impossible already did both of those.
  • Jordo007Jordo007 Merseyside
    Posts: 2,483
    Venutius wrote: »
    Yes, quite an oversight not to re-use Madeleine's theme from SP. Shame.

    Yeah I quite liked her theme in Spectre, it would have been nice to reprise it NTTD. I would have liked them creating something new if they weren't going to reuse it, give Madeline something as memorable as WHATTITW or Vesper's theme. Zimmer is extremely talented and more than capable of creating something iconic
  • Posts: 12,837
    Jordo007 wrote: »
    Venutius wrote: »
    Yes, quite an oversight not to re-use Madeleine's theme from SP. Shame.

    Yeah I quite liked her theme in Spectre, it would have been nice to reprise it NTTD. I would have liked them creating something new if they weren't going to reuse it, give Madeline something as memorable as WHATTITW or Vesper's theme. Zimmer is extremely talented and more than capable of creating something iconic

    I think Zimmer probably just didn’t have enough time, he came onboard quite late in the game. I think the freedom they’ve given to directors has given us some cool visual stuff and interesting risks with the storytelling, but letting them choose the composer just doesn’t seem to work that well. Newman’s efforts were bland, and they wasted so much time with Dan Romer before sacking him.
  • Jordo007Jordo007 Merseyside
    Posts: 2,483
    Yeah I get the feeling he didn't have enough time. It's a shame Zimmer was tied up working on Dune and not hired initially.
    I love some of the tracks on the soundtrack though, Not What I Expected, Cuba Chase and his new take on the Bond theme are amazing
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    Posts: 5,921
    Doesn't Zimmer have, like, 50 composers working for him?
  • GadgetManGadgetMan Lagos, Nigeria
    Posts: 4,247
    echo wrote: »
    GadgetMan wrote: »
    I don't know, I think to make it more Bondian and extraordinary, the Cuba sequence in NTTD needed...maybe something like causing a deliberate flood. Maybe Bond shoots open a Spectre giant aquarium and deadly fishes join the party, as the fight ensues in the flood. Then the Crater base escape in SP, needed something like a sandstorm in the action with Blofeld's men in cars and helicopters moving in the sandstorm, and Madeleine sticking close to Bond as he fights them and eventually taking the helicopter to escape, then they film that record explosion properly, as it explodes behind Bond and Madeleine in the helicopter getting away.
    I haven't watched it in full since my only theater viewing. Usually I'll buy them day of release but just couldn't do it. And it stinks because there's so much to enjoy and that I did enjoy within it. It could be that I'd buy it, maybe watch it once or twice and then it'll sit on my shelf for years. I've watched the ending on YouTube to mentally prepare myself for a full viewing but still have yet to pull the trigger and just buy it and watch in its entirety. I thought it was going to be an Amazon this past weekend, but it's only for UK citizens.

    Mission Impossible already did both of those.

    Oh, of course. Just like the helicopter sequence in FRWL was already done in Hitchcock's North By Northwest and now GoldenEye's bike jump will be done in the upcoming Misson Impossible film. It all depends on execution...I think.
  • JustJamesJustJames London
    Posts: 203
    I had to wait for home release, and haven’t been active on here, but my main reaction is that I really enjoyed it. I think it literally made all the Craig era better by tying things up, and enjoy it more as it’s own self contained thing. Really enjoyed them all more as a result, and that surprises me, as I wasn’t a fan of Craig at the beginning… not a ‘Craig not bond’ style activist, but certainly someone who thought Brosnan was screwed over. (Twice, but DAD has improved the tiniest bit with age. Still misjudged in a lot of places though.)

    Led to me re-evaluating all the films really, and I have come to the conclusion I don’t much like Connery/Lazenby era, Moore is also his own thing (two really… some are more serious than others) and that Dalton onwards are constantly good and better overall (Though DAD was a huge misstep, and part of that was the silly stuff shoehorned in.) I even no longer mock the Blofeld Austin Powers stuff of the Craig era, because the rest of it is so much better, especially with CR and NTTD at either end.

    So in many ways, NTTD is probably my favourite Bond film now, simply for what it did to the others.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,000
    Glad you enjoyed it.
  • Jordo007Jordo007 Merseyside
    Posts: 2,483
    Yeah I'm glad you enjoyed it too @JustJames good to have you back mate
  • SIS_HQSIS_HQ At the Vauxhall Headquarters
    edited April 2022 Posts: 3,382
    My thoughts on Mathilde.
    Maybe when Madeleine denied to James that Mathilde was his daughter, Bond believed it but seems he wants to fix his relationship with Madeleine, Bond instead treats Mathilde like his daughter without knowing it's really his.
    So Bond wants to fix his relationship with Madeleine and if it happens, maybe in his thought, he will treat Mathilde like his own daughter, so in that they can start a family and raised Mathilde like their own daughter.
    Bond is an orphan, he already experienced it, being adopted and accepted by someone/his foster father (Hannes Oberhauser).
    So he wants to do the same to Mathilde, treat her like his real daughter and be a father to her, like how Hannes Oberhauser treated him and raised him like his real son.
    So in some scenes Bond was acting like a father to her.

    So Bond only realized that Mathilde was his daughter when Safin revealed it to him, of course he would believe that because he already knew the connections between Safin and Madeleine, so when Bond saw Mathilde and Madeleine together, he felt again betrayed by her because she didn't told him the truth, she lied to him. Then when Bond encountered Nomi, Bond whispered to himself that it was his family.

    That's only my theory.
  • Posts: 988
    Safin was the one to tell Bond Matilde was his daughter. It was kind of an odd 'reveal'. It just kind of slipped out.
    NTTD is kind of like the film where everything happens, isn't it? OHMSS is the 'one where he gets married', MR is 'the one he goes into space'... and NTTD is the 'one where Felix dies, Bond has a daughter, and Bond dies'. It's the everything and the kitchen sink of Bond movies.
  • edited April 2022 Posts: 2,753
    I think they were going for something weirdly metaphorical during the initial scene with Madeline but it's completely misplaced: "No James, you are not her Father yet as you haven't earned that right... biologically, of course she is, just look at this child's strikingly digitally enhanced/graded blue eyes. Let's just keep this vague as possible for now, yes? We have your death scene approaching and we need some drama." There's so much going on it just gets lost during the Safin/Bond encounter, haha.

    For what it's worth though @MI6HQ I did get the sense that Bond was acting as a Father figure early on not because he knew but as you said because he wanted to do right. So yes, I agree.
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    Posts: 5,921
    I think Bond knew the whole time she was his daughter, but out of respect for Madeleine, he waited for her to tell him.
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