The What if thread...M had been re-cast for CR 2006? page 60

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  • Posts: 15,785
    BT3366 wrote: »
    Brolin got his chance to play secret agent and played it very well, IMO - P.W. Herman at the end of Pee Wee's Big Adventure.

    He is dashing and suave. However, the beard and haircut in that film kind of makes him look like a country singer. Eddie Rabbitt or somebody.
    Had be been cast in OP, I believe he may have insisted on sporting a full on country singer beard for AVTAK. Cubby might've not liked that, thus inspiring him to cast Timothy Dalton in AVTAK. The result could've been three Dalton films for us, and Sir Roger ending his run on a high note, FYEO.
    That scenario in mind, I might've been happy to have Brolin for one outing. :D
  • Posts: 60
    I don't think James Brolin is a good enough actor to carry the weight of Bond. I watch his screen test and I'm just not impressed.

    Think of Margot Kidder with Christopher Reeve and the chemistry they have. Then watch The Amityville Horror with Brolin and Kidder and they have no chemistry at all.

    I also don't think OP would have been a good film for him. And we wouldn't have got the OP we did. As I feel the script would have been changed to accomodate Brolin.

    I'm actually in the camp that doesn't think an American should portray Bond. And if they do, then it has to be someone with charisma like Sean. As I would rather they just used their own accent than attempt to put on a British one.

    How would that impact the character of Bond. Who knows? But I don't think Brolin had the charisma or the acting chops to pull that off.
  • I'm curious to know who could have been cast a M if Brolin took over the role. As I wrote, Robert Brown was apparently hired on Moore's recommendation (the two were friends and Brown was the godfather of Moore's daughter). Without Moore and with Brolin, who could have been cast as M? Would Moore have nonetheless recommended Brown? Would his suggestion been taken into account?
  • Posts: 60
    I'm curious to know who could have been cast a M if Brolin took over the role. As I wrote, Robert Brown was apparently hired on Moore's recommendation (the two were friends and Brown was the godfather of Moore's daughter). Without Moore and with Brolin, who could have been cast as M? Would Moore have nonetheless recommended Brown? Would his suggestion been taken into account?

    It's possible Robert Brown would have still played M as he had already played Admiral Hargreaves in The Spy Who Loved Me. So he was clearly on the teams radar. However, that was 6 years earlier. And without the recommendation of Roger Moore and a new James Bond in James Brolin they might have cast a different actor in the role of M.
  • thedovethedove hiding in the Greek underworld
    Posts: 4,904
    These what if's are very interesting to consider and often lend themselves to future decisions made by the film makers. I hadn't thought of the Brown and Moore connection and I suppose without Roger, Robert wouldn't be cast.

    I still can't picture an American James Bond and hope it never comes to pass. Keep him British please.
  • Posts: 1,545
    thedove wrote: »
    These what if's are very interesting to consider and often lend themselves to future decisions made by the film makers. I hadn't thought of the Brown and Moore connection and I suppose without Roger, Robert wouldn't be cast.

    I still can't picture an American James Bond and hope it never comes to pass. Keep him British please.

    Indeed ! "Keeping the British end up !"

    People complain so much about the current production team, but the first one - if not just bluffing to bring back their desired star - was awful sometimes ! Look at the horrible fx in DAF during the laser-beam-blows-things-up-on-earth scene. By 1971 the results should have been worlds better than the lousy green screening in DN (the care chase with the undertaker) and YOLT (spoiling Little Nelly's coming out) and stilted model work in FRWL (helicopter explosion). If they REALLy considered Adam West, Burt Reynolds - what ? Just because they were popular ?!!? James Brolin ?!!? John Gavin was the only understandable one, but - not British and rather...sedate...in comparison with Connery. This team has been challenged - the writers' strike effect on QOS - and had failures to get scripts ready and right - but the bottom line is they ABSOLUTELY care about QUALITY.
  • thedovethedove hiding in the Greek underworld
    Posts: 4,904
    Let's talk about a new what if that recently popped into my head and this involves the current producers, so thanks for the segue @Since62

    The popular story was that Barbra decided to meet Judi Dench for lunch to let her know about the new Bond, Daniel Craig. She felt it was worth a face to face discussion. This was to share the news that they would be re-casting M, as it was a reboot and not connected to the rest of the series. However, Judi didn't play along and asked when did they start the new film. Barbra didn't have the heart to tell her that she wasn't in the cast so they kept her as the new M.

    But what if, Judi had stepped down as M and made way for a new person to assume the role? Would they have gone back to a man in the role? Would the plot of Skyfall still happened?

    Would Judi still be as loved having only served as M for Pierce's tenure?

    What say you Mi6? What if Judi Dench had only portrayed M for 4 films?
  • Agent_Zero_OneAgent_Zero_One Ireland
    Posts: 554
    thedove wrote: »
    Let's talk about a new what if that recently popped into my head and this involves the current producers, so thanks for the segue @Since62

    The popular story was that Barbra decided to meet Judi Dench for lunch to let her know about the new Bond, Daniel Craig. She felt it was worth a face to face discussion. This was to share the news that they would be re-casting M, as it was a reboot and not connected to the rest of the series. However, Judi didn't play along and asked when did they start the new film. Barbra didn't have the heart to tell her that she wasn't in the cast so they kept her as the new M.

    But what if, Judi had stepped down as M and made way for a new person to assume the role? Would they have gone back to a man in the role? Would the plot of Skyfall still happened?

    Would Judi still be as loved having only served as M for Pierce's tenure?

    What say you Mi6? What if Judi Dench had only portrayed M for 4 films?
    Amazing that such a significant part of the Craig era was the way it was because of one spontaneous derailment of a conversation.

    A thought: Jesper Christensen as M?

  • M_BaljeM_Balje Amsterdam, Netherlands
    edited August 2022 Posts: 4,416
    That have changed everything.

    Mother / Trust sitation that she have since Twine playing a very inportent element.

    Dench M death predicting (you need QOS and then look back to CR)
    M be taken in SF (It was on my wishlist that she be taken, in first place as reference to GF graveyardscene.)

    Video message after her death was on my wishlist too.
  • edited August 2022 Posts: 2,753
    I actually didn't know that story! Seems very much like something Judi Dench would do.

    As for what could have been, it depends on what stage they decided Dench was going to return. If this was before the scripts had been written/at a very early stage then it's possible they wrote M in CR specifically for Dench. If this was after a few drafts had been written then we know it's likely that they wanted a female M.

    Let's say in this parallel universe Dench stepped down before the first draft of the script. They would have wanted someone noticeably different in order to start afresh and at the very least avoid comparisons between Dench and this new M. Potentially we could have gotten a male M again in that case. I'm not sure if we'd have returned to a Bernard Lee or Robert Brown type, but they would certainly have been older than Bond and a similar dynamic that we saw in CR would have been present (although perhaps a male M would have given us a more antagonistic relationship between Bond and M? More head butting than the quasi-maternal relationship of the film we got). Perhaps they would have gone for a black M (a black female M? In that case I think we might have gotten a similarly written character to Dench's M in the Craig era).

    Regardless, a change in actor would've had a knock on effect for the rest of the Craig era. I can't see them deciding to kill off a relatively new M in SF in the same way they did with Dench, nor can I image it being the same film.
  • thedovethedove hiding in the Greek underworld
    Posts: 4,904
    Interesting choice for M @Agent_Zero_One I can actually see it. But then who plays Mr. White? hmmm

    Yes it does make you wonder where they would have taken M. Back to a white older male? Or in one of the many great possibilities you have mentioned. I do think this would impact the SF plot as that actor would only be in the role for a couple of films.

    Funny how Dench is supposed to be in the Craig M but her Brosnan time in role was used to great effect in SF. Yet they are supposed to be different characters and a totally different timeline.

    In some ways I would have preferred to have Dench only in the Brosnan films.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    McKellen could have been a great M for Craig.
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    Posts: 5,921
    Reviving this thread (which could use the more generic title "What if...?)":

    What if Brosnan had been Bond in TLD? I doubt we would next have gotten LTK with Brosnan, so that would leave a large portion of LALD unadapted.

    Could the unadapted elements of LALD (minus the blaxploitation) have been Craig's follow-up to CR? And then a more faithful MR, setting Craig on a very Fleming trajectory? The mind boggles.
  • SIS_HQSIS_HQ At the Vauxhall Headquarters
    edited September 2022 Posts: 3,382
    1. What if SPECTRE also appeared in the Moore Era or what if Moore's Bond faced Blofeld and SPECTRE?
    2. What if the Producers made Tracy lived instead?
    3. What if the Craig Era continued in the classic continuity?
    4. What if JFK hadn't announced FRWL as one of his favorite novels or what if it's not one of his favorites? How would that affect the popularity of Fleming's novels?
    5. What if Connery played the Bond straight from the books (or think of Dalton's portrayal) instead of injecting his own style into the character? Would the Bond franchise still continue?

  • TheSkyfallen06TheSkyfallen06 Buenos Aires, Argentina.
    Posts: 975
    MI6HQ wrote: »
    1. What if SPECTRE also appeared in the Moore Era or what if Moore's Bond faced Blofeld and SPECTRE?

    In that case, i guess S.P.E.C.T.R.E. would have been the main amtagonists of TSWLM & MR.

  • TheSkyfallen06TheSkyfallen06 Buenos Aires, Argentina.
    Posts: 975
    MI6HQ wrote: »
    3. What if the Craig Era continued in the classic continuity?
    Then i guess Quantum wouldn't really have existed as it did.
  • TheSkyfallen06TheSkyfallen06 Buenos Aires, Argentina.
    Posts: 975
    echo wrote: »
    What if Brosnan had been Bond in TLD? I doubt we would next have gotten LTK with Brosnan, so that would leave a large portion of LALD unadapted.

    Yeah, i don't think they would have made LTK with Brosnie, they would have probably made a loose-adaptation of THR.
  • echo wrote: »
    What if Brosnan had been Bond in TLD?
    I think TLD would have stayed mostly as it is (with the Flying Carpet scene still in the movie). Regarding Bond 16, maybe it would probably have been closer to what was one of the original Maibaum and Wilson's ideas: a reuse of elements from the prequel script for Bond 15 mixed with some elements of "The Hildebrand Rarity". Probably no drug lord "ripped from the headlines".

    With Brosnan starring as Bond, the US audience would probably have been more receptive to the franchise. I doubt it would have prevented the legal issues, but maybe Bond 17 would have entered into production much sooner (1992/1993?) and Brosnan would certainly been back.

    MI6HQ wrote: »
    What if SPECTRE also appeared in the Moore Era or what if Moore's Bond faced Blofeld and SPECTRE?
    I guess it would have depended if Eon had access to SPECTRE from the start or if they reacquired the rights at one point during the Moore era. Ultimately I think it wouldn't have changed much for the beginning, TSWL being probably the first movie impacted. If Eon however acquired the rights later, I think Octopussy (written at one point to involve Blofeld and SPECTRE) would have been the movie really changed.
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    edited September 2022 Posts: 5,921
    echo wrote: »
    What if Brosnan had been Bond in TLD?
    I think TLD would have stayed mostly as it is (with the Flying Carpet scene still in the movie). Regarding Bond 16, maybe it would probably have been closer to what was one of the original Maibaum and Wilson's ideas: a reuse of elements from the prequel script for Bond 15 mixed with some elements of "The Hildebrand Rarity". Probably no drug lord "ripped from the headlines".

    Interesting. What's the source for this Bond 16?

    I wonder how much Brosnan would have been pulled toward the Die Hard/Miami Vice/Lethal Weapon zeitgeist of the time. He's not as natural a fit for that as Dalton. I mean, Brosnan can play dark (The Fourth Protocol, etc.), but I don't think the US public wanted to see Brosnan playing dark.

    The villains in TSWLM would have been allied with SPECTRE, and probably MR and AVTAK as well. FYEO would not need the PTS. OP is the one that got away in the SPECTRE timeline...until SP. ;)
  • edited September 2022 Posts: 890
    echo wrote: »
    Interesting. What's the source for this Bond 16?
    Charles Helfenstein's The Making of The Living Daylights.

    In the last chapter (titled "The Daylights Legacy"), Helfenstein writes: "In the winter of 1987, Richard Maibaum and Michael G. Wilson began working on the next Bond script. They dusted off the Bond XV scripts and began reworking them to refashion a period piece into a modern action film." Also according to him, Glen suggested that the title could be "Risico". That script was set in China. Still in this chapter, an early script for Licence Revoked is described and Sanchez's mistress is here named Betje Bedwell who was the Bond Girl of Maibaum and Wilson's Bond origin story (and already the bad guy's mistress).

    Also, Some Kind of Hero gives additional details: "Richard Maibaum explained that initially the plan was to link the film to The Living Daylights, ‘We wanted to pick up on a warlord in the Golden Triangle from [the] previous film who was mixed up in drugs and we thought we could incorporate it into a story set in China.’ Wilson confirmed, ‘We wrote two treatments … [one] involved the treasures of China and was quite a different story.'"

    So more than a drug lord, I easily imagined that a Bond 16 with Brosnan would have had a warlord as the bad guy, akin to what was the plan for the Bond 15 origin story.
  • thedovethedove hiding in the Greek underworld
    Posts: 4,904
    MI6HQ wrote: »
    1. What if SPECTRE also appeared in the Moore Era or what if Moore's Bond faced Blofeld and SPECTRE?

    In that case, i guess S.P.E.C.T.R.E. would have been the main amtagonists of TSWLM & MR.

    One of the scripts for Spy did indeed have Blofeld and SPECTRE. However, McClory threatened a lawsuit, and they settled on Stromberg. There was also a version where a new group took over from SPECTRE. But Cubby said this was too political and that Bond shouldn't go into politics.
  • TheSkyfallen06TheSkyfallen06 Buenos Aires, Argentina.
    Posts: 975
    MI6HQ wrote: »
    3. What if the Craig Era continued in the classic continuity?
    Then CR would have probably been setted in the 60's, and in QOS Quantum would have been replaced with SMERSH.
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    Posts: 5,921
    It'll never happen because they tend to reuse old scripts (NTTD apparently used an old TSWLM script) but I'd like to see a MGW tell-all about all the things he/they almost did with Bond scripts.
  • Agent_Zero_OneAgent_Zero_One Ireland
    Posts: 554
    MI6HQ wrote: »
    3. What if the Craig Era continued in the classic continuity?
    Then CR would have probably been setted in the 60's, and in QOS Quantum would have been replaced with SMERSH.
    Doubt it, I think they would've just continued with the floating timeline. Like how some people looked/look at Bond as having undergone some of the old films' events between Quantum and SF.
  • TheSkyfallen06TheSkyfallen06 Buenos Aires, Argentina.
    edited November 2022 Posts: 975
    [DELETED]
  • TheSkyfallen06TheSkyfallen06 Buenos Aires, Argentina.
    Posts: 975
    It's been quiet here lately...

    What if Timothy Dalton kept portraying Bond from 1991 to 2002?
    or...
    What if Timothy Dalton accepted to play James Bond in On Her Majesty's Secret Service?
  • NickTwentyTwoNickTwentyTwo Vancouver, BC, Canada
    Posts: 7,518
    Dalton in OHMSS would have been great I think; I think he would have been able to hit the same emotional beats that Lazenby hit well, but armed with more acting skill. Then he, Ferzetti, and Savalas all could have made the YOLT follow up that only exists in my dreams.
  • What if Timothy Dalton kept portraying Bond from 1991 to 2002?/i]

    No matter the timeline, I really can't imagine Dalton playing the role for so long. Supposing he had a third film between 1991 and 1993, I can imagine him returning for a fourth one (thus between '93 et '96), but definitively not for much more and I think Dalton would have moved on from the role in the mid-90s. I guess these movies would have addressed the end of the Cold War and focus on new issues, but the franchise would have needed fresh blood.
  • Last_Rat_StandingLast_Rat_Standing Long Neck Ice Cold Beer Never Broke My Heart
    Posts: 4,382
    A third Dalton film in 91-92 would have been nice but I think the series needed Brosnan in 1995.
  • SIS_HQSIS_HQ At the Vauxhall Headquarters
    edited November 2022 Posts: 3,382
    Dalton in OHMSS would have been great I think; I think he would have been able to hit the same emotional beats that Lazenby hit well, but armed with more acting skill. Then he, Ferzetti, and Savalas all could have made the YOLT follow up that only exists in my dreams.

    Interesting indeed, but it's Dalton who've rejected the role due to him very young at the time (if my memory serves he's just 28).

    Same for FYEO, Dalton also rejected the role due to him not being a fan of the direction the franchise was taking.

    Then the next was in AVTAK, but Moore decided to return, and the Producers chose him over Dalton.

    It's a matter of unexpected happenings, not intentional.
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