The What if thread...What if Dalton had starred in GE instead of Brosnan?

2456719

Comments

  • Posts: 12,218
    I'd say at least TLD would have been more successful and the transition smoother from the Moore era into the Brosnan one. But I think it would have somewhat staled the franchise so to speak and make it seem dated and unable to evolve, at least for a while. Had LTK or whatever the movie Brosnan would have had for his second outing be a BO disappointment, then it would have hurt the franchise more, because expectations were higher with him than Dalton.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger regnifrednuhT
    Posts: 34,626
    The film would have been worse with Brosnan in it. He was too young and baby-faced in the 80s. Not a believable Bond in any way.
  • edited August 13 Posts: 3,808
    I do think that, if Brosnan had played in TLD, he would have been in a similar situation than Moore when he took the part. After all, the part Brosnan was most known for at the time was the light-hearted Remington Steele, just like Moore was mostly known for The Saint and The Persuaders. So Bond would have continued to be light-hearted as well, a continuation of the Moore era. IMHO, Brosnan had to show that he could play hard-hitting characters before taking the part of Bond, which happened with The Fourth Protocol. YMMV, of course.
  • DwayneDwayne New York City
    Posts: 148
    thedove wrote: »
    I love MR mainly for Barry and Ken Adam's contribution. I would have hated to have lost the film irrespective of the novels content.

    Yes I am thinking we'd have a Barry scored FYEO and a Conti scored MR. If MR went after FYEO. I too love the Barry soundtrack of MR. Even the disco version of the title song at the end of the film.

    I do wonder how far they got into the planning of FYEO as the next Bond in 1977. I am guessing not too far as MR is so massive and they would have needed pre-production time for it.

    One wonders if the stainless steel Delicatessen line would have stayed in FYEO! LOL!

    Interesting thread thedove.

    After reading “The Music of James Bond” by Jon Burlingame, its not clear that John Barry would have been able to score an “epic sized” FYEO in 1979. Because MR’s budget was so high ($30 million), EON was forced to co-produce it with a French firm (Les Productions Artistes Associes, p135). This meant that much of the post-production for MR was done outside of the UK – and that allowed Barry – who was a tax exile at the time - to resume work on Bond.

    For the actual FYEO (in 1981), with its smaller budget, most of the post production work returned to the UK. Barry ultimately resolved his tax situation in 1983, in time to score OP.

  • DwayneDwayne New York City
    Posts: 148
    That should probably read as a "downsized" FYEO.
  • thedovethedove hiding in the Greek underworld
    Posts: 1,956
    Thanks for your compliment @Dwayne I think it's fun to speculate on what may have been. Nice thoughts about the music and scoring of those films.

    On the current What if. I recall reading somewhere that Brosnan needed to keep some stubble even for when he was Bond (I believe in TND?). The makeup person said he looked young then too. So I have no doubt @Thunderfinger he would have needed to somehow look older in TLD to make it believable.

    As much as I respect and like Brosnan I don't think we get LTK as the follow up to TLD. I also think the transition from Moore wouldn't have been as jarring for audiences. Brosnan has quite a bit of Moore's Bond in his portrayal.

    Do we really think that if Brosnan was cast in TLD that Dalton doesn't get a chance to play Bond at all? That would mean Brosnan would do 6 total Bonds? Then right to Craig? Interesting.
  • Posts: 9,960
    latest?cb=20170629045815
    Brosnan in TLD we would have got a skinnier Bond.

    Joking aside Pierce would have done a fine Job, arguably Glen may have made Pierce into a better Bond than in the films we actually saw PB in.
  • thedovethedove hiding in the Greek underworld
    Posts: 1,956
    Haven't seen that pic before @Fire_and_Ice_Returns was that from a screen test Pierce did for the producers?

    I like what you say about Glen. Might it also be a Dick Maibaum script that would have aided in showcasing Brosnan to the world as double-o-7? I think as written Brosnan would have been able to pull off TLD. In fact I believe they weren't able to change much of the script as Dalton was brought on very last minute to replace him. Where I think it gets interesting to think about this scenario is what does the next Bond movie look like with Brosnan as the Bond? I can't see him doing well in LTK, that story and script were tailor made for Dalton. So would we get more of the fantastical elements and less revenge?
  • w2bondw2bond is indeed a very rare breed
    Posts: 2,007
    What sells TLD for me is Dalton's conviction in his performance. It's an easy top 7 Bond film, but there are parts that drag. However what keeps it on top is the way he does the sniper and Pushkin interrogation scenes.

    I'm trying to imagine Brosnan doing the exact same film (ie they didn't change it to 'cater for the actor') and I can't imagine him pulling off those tense scenes with the same tone or believability. His age may have had something to do with it.
  • Posts: 9,960
    thedove wrote: »
    Haven't seen that pic before @Fire_and_Ice_Returns was that from a screen test Pierce did for the producers?

    I like what you say about Glen. Might it also be a Dick Maibaum script that would have aided in showcasing Brosnan to the world as double-o-7? I think as written Brosnan would have been able to pull off TLD. In fact I believe they weren't able to change much of the script as Dalton was brought on very last minute to replace him. Where I think it gets interesting to think about this scenario is what does the next Bond movie look like with Brosnan as the Bond? I can't see him doing well in LTK, that story and script were tailor made for Dalton. So would we get more of the fantastical elements and less revenge?

    7284b26c6e2af34d5175ee9d86361ed8.jpg
    Here is another photo uncertain if this was from the screen test though the first one is apparently.
    Maibaum was one of the best writers IMO and I think TLD would have worked well with PB.

    I hasten to add I would never want Dalton's films never to exist they are both great. This is purely me thinking PB would do well in a alternate reality.
  • Major_BoothroydMajor_Boothroyd Republic of Isthmus
    Posts: 2,614
    I'd echo most poster's thoughts here. I'm a diehard Dalton fan but I think it's safe to say that Brosnan would have been a bigger commercial success in TLD.

    I'd imagine LTK would not have happened. Although considering the Lethal Weapon & Die Hard series were towering over the action genre in 1989 I wouldn't discount that they may have been tempted to go down the Sanchez drug dealer route anyway - just not as violently and maybe without the revenge angle.

    But most likely I'd except they would have got into the GE/TND mode a little earlier. It would have been curious to see if Brosnan started in 87 that by the time they got to TND in 97 or TWINE in 1999 if they decided to realign the series - in the way they did with FYEO in Moore's tenure.
  • 00Agent00Agent Has no problem with female authority.
    edited August 13 Posts: 4,625
    Nah, Brosnan was perfect for Goldeneye, a return to the larger than life, dark seductive playboy Bond. TLD is not that, it's way more grounded and far to monogamous for Brosnan.

    If Brosnan had starred in TLD we probably would have never gotten a GE either.
  • pachazopachazo Make Your Choice
    edited August 13 Posts: 6,663
    If Brosnan had starred in TLD, I'm inclined to believe that it would have been more successful. American audiences were very excited for him to be Bond. Dalton, for whatever reason, just didn't click with the majority of Americans at the time.

    Not that he didn't have any fans. They were out there, but few and far between, at least in my personal experience. The critics liked him though. Most notably, Siskel and Ebert gave him high praise.

    It seemed like, for the casual American moviegoer at the time, those who liked Moore wanted the series to continue in that fashion. Conversely, those who didn't like Moore wanted a return to someone like Connery. Dalton was the Bond no one expected. Brosnan was the safe choice to try to appease the masses.

    Those are my memories of it anyway. I was quite young at the time (around 9 when TLD came out) but I can remember family and friends talking about it quite a bit.
  • Last_Rat_StandingLast_Rat_Standing South Florida
    Posts: 3,237
    We wouldn't have gotten a 6 year hiatus. If Brosnan would have performed well, then we would have gotten a far East treatment in either in place of LTK or in the third (what would have been Daltons third). Would have gotten films in at least 1989, and 1991-92 then 94-95 with GE.
  • Posts: 9,678
    I've always been fascinated by the Brosnan DAYLIGHTS history.

    What was the actual date MTM rescinded their cancellation of REMINGTON STEELE, thus screwing Pierce over?
    I vividly recall still being in school and Entertainment Tonight making a premature announcement that the Brosnan deal fell thru. They added that 32 year old Australian model Finlay Light would be starring as Bond in THE LIVING DAYLIGHTS.
    Host John Tesh quipped that the new Bond sounded like a beer commercial: Finlay Light.
    This must have been in early June of '86 as I recall.

    As much as I love Tim and the film itself, I do think TLD would have been a bigger hit in the States had Pierce starred. Everyone I knew wanted him for the part.
    Everyone I knew voiced regret and dare I say a bit of disdain when he lost out and Tim got the role. Of course there was a huge vibe of curiosity regarding Tim and the film, but in the long run, just about everyone I spoke with seemed to feel the film was a missed opportunity.

    In addition, aside from opening weekend, the theater I saw it in 7 times was pretty bare.

    In an interview John Glen mentioned he thought the film itself would have pretty much been the same. No drastic changes were made upon Dalton's casting. I believe Tim had the wardrobe reduced by about 25% so Brosnan's Bond probably would have had a more variety of outfits during the course of the film. I doubt the film would have benefited from Tim's intensity, though, Pierce is much lighter.

    I think afterwards, Cubby may have continued adapting the short stories with Pierce in the lead. We might have had THE PROPERTY OF A LADY as B16. Had that been a hit, who knows? Perhaps Cubby would have transitioned from Fleming to Gardner and the early '90's been graced with adaptations of LICENCE RENEWED. ICEBREAKER, and WIN LOSE OR DIE? The hiatus occurred because the then head of MGM began licensing Bond without Cubby's approval (in a nutshell, if I have that right). That still may of happened regardless, but less likely had the 16th film been a massive hit. Cubby liked to keep Bond going at regular intervals. If he were still with us, even at 110 I believe he'd be committed to keeping Bond on the screen.
  • thedovethedove hiding in the Greek underworld
    Posts: 1,956
    Yes I recall the same things as you @ToTheRight I believe the timeline was that it was announced or soon to be announced as Brosnan has the next Bond. Then NBC steps in and uses a clause in Brosnan's contract with them to invoke a new season (or it may have been tv-movies) on Remington Steele. I think they thought they would have "Bond" on TV in between his movie commitments. Cubby didn't want his Bond being seen for free on American TV, so he rescinded the deal with Pierce.

    Dalton was cast last minute and then to further add to the challenges he was still working on Brenda Starr. I believe he ended up finishing on Brenda Starr and then the very next day he was reporting to TLD.

    Therefore the script wasn't tailored for any particular actor. Dalton was making suggestions through out filming based on his reading the Fleming novels and wanting to make it more grounded. Therefore things like the flying carpet went out.

    AIDS was a big societal issue at the time so no matter who played Bond it was always a one girl Bond movie. I really can see Pierce pulling off TLD. I think it was well suited to his strengths. The American Box Office would have been bigger with Brosnan in the role for sure.

    I don't see LTK being made at all. That movie was totally playing to Dalton's strengths as Bond. I would envision more of the Bond 17 screen treatment that has surfaced as being the follow up to TLD.
  • edited August 14 Posts: 19,339
    He fought like mad to keep the 007 role,but,if under contract,what can you do ?!

    8_11_86_750x1000.jpg
  • Posts: 2,231
    barryt007 wrote: »
    He fought like mad to keep the 007 role,but,if under contract,what can you do ?!

    8_11_86_750x1000.jpg

    Thank God for contracts!!
  • pachazopachazo Make Your Choice
    Posts: 6,663
    I think it worked out just the way it was supposed to. It was good to shake things up after Moore's long run. Dalton really provided us with something different. While Pierce wouldn't have been as jarring to American audiences, he looked very young and it's hard to imagine him pulling off the scenes with the same gravitas. Best that he got his chance later on.
  • Posts: 4,346
    I wonder how the sniper scene at the beginning of the film would have been with Brosnan as Bond. The scene must have been planned when they thought Brosnan would play the role, since the title was already decided? I suppose the scene would have been quite tonally different, but I still can´t imagine a young, baby faced Brosnan pulling it off convincingly. Some of the more meaty dialogue must have been written specifically for Dalton I presume. I could never envision Brosnan saying; "plenty of time for a sniper to make strawberry jam of him!" or "if he fires me I´ll thank him for it".

  • Posts: 697
    The Brosnan as Bond news in '86 was a big deal, especially in those pre-Internet days. People really were interested in that, particularly in the U.S. I still have that People Magazine in my collection along with clippings of the news as it occurred. I also still recall the day Dalton was announced as it was the same date I'd get married 8 years later.

    Back as far as 1983, US Magazine did a poll on who should be the next Bond as Bond fever was high from OP and NSNA and Moore was again being rumored to leave and Brosnan overwhelmingly won. TLD would likely have been even bigger here with him in the role as there was a built-in audience, which I think was such a factor when GE was released. People were ready to accept him and Dalton was unknown, the opposite of Moore and I think that was a factor. I only knew him as Prince Barin, but was thrilled with the choice and he exceeded my expectations.

    I had two friends who were underwhelmed when TLD was released, one was a huge Brosnan fan, so naturally he would have a built-in bias against Dalton and the other just didn't think the spirit was the same as before.

    I would've liked to have Dalton for more Bond, but I guess it happened as it was intended.
  • Posts: 19,339
    BT3366 wrote: »
    The Brosnan as Bond news in '86 was a big deal, especially in those pre-Internet days. People really were interested in that, particularly in the U.S. I still have that People Magazine in my collection along with clippings of the news as it occurred. I also still recall the day Dalton was announced as it was the same date I'd get married 8 years later.

    Back as far as 1983, US Magazine did a poll on who should be the next Bond as Bond fever was high from OP and NSNA and Moore was again being rumored to leave and Brosnan overwhelmingly won. TLD would likely have been even bigger here with him in the role as there was a built-in audience, which I think was such a factor when GE was released. People were ready to accept him and Dalton was unknown, the opposite of Moore and I think that was a factor. I only knew him as Prince Barin, but was thrilled with the choice and he exceeded my expectations.

    I had two friends who were underwhelmed when TLD was released, one was a huge Brosnan fan, so naturally he would have a built-in bias against Dalton and the other just didn't think the spirit was the same as before.

    I would've liked to have Dalton for more Bond, but I guess it happened as it was intended.

    I have to agree with your friend here,i felt the same when I left the cinema...I was 17 at the time.
  • thedovethedove hiding in the Greek underworld
    Posts: 1,956
    I wonder if that also impacted the experience of a new Bond. Dalton felt like the second choice for Bond. I don't believe any other Bond had to deal with that perception.

    Good point about the sniper scenes. I would hazard a guess that has filming went on the script and dialogue was being tailored and changed to fit Dalton. Obviously the story was set in stone and locations and such all chosen. But they would have been able to sculpt the script for Dalton.

    Good thoughts on this what if scenario.
  • Posts: 19,339
    So in theory TLD was a bit of a mess considering Moore was in mind first,then things adjusted for Brosnan,and then things adjusted a third time for Dalton.

    No wonder it looks confused at times.
  • Posts: 9,960
    Thankfully Dalts gave us one of the best interpretations of Bond in TLD
  • thedovethedove hiding in the Greek underworld
    Posts: 1,956
    Yes there are tonal shifts. I remember an article in a magazine called Starlog. Michael Wilson said they wrote TLD with no one in mind as Bond. They had also floated doing a Bond origin story but Cubby hated that so it was scrubbed. I love Cubby for that! But I digress.
  • Last_Rat_StandingLast_Rat_Standing South Florida
    Posts: 3,237
    barryt007 wrote: »
    So in theory TLD was a bit of a mess considering Moore was in mind first,then things adjusted for Brosnan,and then things adjusted a third time for Dalton.

    No wonder it looks confused at times.

    I've read multiple areas in which contrary to belief, it was never written with Moore in mind.
  • Posts: 19,339
    thedove wrote: »
    Yes there are tonal shifts. I remember an article in a magazine called Starlog. Michael Wilson said they wrote TLD with no one in mind as Bond. They had also floated doing a Bond origin story but Cubby hated that so it was scrubbed. I love Cubby for that! But I digress.


    Eeeeek I didn't know that...yes indeed,bless you for that Cubby !!
  • thedovethedove hiding in the Greek underworld
    Posts: 1,956
    Yes Michael said that the audience didn't need to see how Bond became Bond. That it would take away the mystique of the character. I couldn't have agreed more. But at least now we know how Bond killed a bombmaker. We know that Blofeld and him are somewhat like brothers. Yech! I think Cubby was on to something. LOL!

    I had forgotten just how young Brosnan was in 1986. Which surprises me. He really did look too young to play the part.
  • Posts: 19,339
    thedove wrote: »
    Yes Michael said that the audience didn't need to see how Bond became Bond. That it would take away the mystique of the character. I couldn't have agreed more. But at least now we know how Bond killed a bombmaker. We know that Blofeld and him are somewhat like brothers. Yech! I think Cubby was on to something. LOL!

    I had forgotten just how young Brosnan was in 1986. Which surprises me. He really did look too young to play the part.

    He was very skinny/wiry as well,he needed to physically mature.
    I think it all worked out well for him,he was needed in 1995 to rescue the series !
Sign In or Register to comment.