The What if thread...M had been re-cast for CR 2006? page 60

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  • thedovethedove hiding in the Greek underworld
    Posts: 4,904
    I don't recall much chatter about him directing TND but after CR there was a great deal of love on here for Martin and many were hoping he'd come back and do the next Bond film. If I am not mistaken he had to either issue a denial in the press to quell the rumours.

    I would never confuse Campbell for Hitchcock or a great director. I just think he knew the right beats as a good Bond director and seemed to deliver two great movies.
  • Posts: 1,680
    Casino Royale is arguably better than skyfall and spectre its the only Craig film that takes more than a sentence to explain the plot. Campbell did something right.
  • thedovethedove hiding in the Greek underworld
    Posts: 4,904
    I must say guys and gals you never cease to amaze me. Great discussion and again I have come away with some new perspectives and facts in Bond history. I am not sure we had an unanimous verdict on that what if. But I think it was a good discussion. As we close that one out I would like to thank @MaxCasino for suggesting that what if.

    Back in the fifties it's a widely known fact that Fleming was trying to get Bond on any screen he could. Based on the success of CR in 1954 CBS began to explore bringing Bond back to the small screen. In 1958 Fleming was commissioned by CBS to draft some plotlines for a TV series based on James Bond. The deal fell through and Fleming took the treatments and created a series of short stories called For Your Eyes Only. Soon EON would come calling and the rest is history.

    My what if scenario is simple. What if CBS had gone ahead and created a TV show based on James Bond? Would Bond had ever made it to the silver screen? Do we think a Bond TV show would have created the cultural blast that the movies delivered? What would a 1958 TV series about James Bond look like?

    What say you Mi6? What if James Bond had become a TV series instead of a film series?
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    Had Bond been a tv series first, I am sure he would still make it to the cinema later. Countless examples of that.
  • edited September 2019 Posts: 17,241
    Wouldn't surprise me if Bond had been a TV series first (and I take it a successful one), they would have found a way to bring him to the screen eventually.

    Maybe it would have happened like it did with Mission Impossible; a run on TV, a return to TV a couple decades later, then brought to the screen in the 90's? Another example is The Man from U.N.C.L.E; maybe Bond would have been brought to the screen as a period film (or films) instead. That could have been interesting to watch, actually.
  • RoadphillRoadphill United Kingdom
    Posts: 984
    Well, if it had have been a TV series, I very much doubt it would have been the pop culture icon it's become. I can't really imagine a CBS budget at the time stretching to filming in Jamaica, Japan and places of the like. We may have got more contained, but faithful versions of the books, though.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 7,999
    Fleming was outlining new plots for the TV series, which some ended up as his short stories. Who knows if a show was going to adapt all the books. CR was used simply because it made a solid starting point, and it's pretty much the genesis of Bond.
  • edited September 2019 Posts: 4,023
    Would it have been James Bond? Wasn’t Fleming also looking at James Gunn or Commander Jamaica? Perhaps if it had gone to TV, Bond on screen would not have happened at all.
  • thedovethedove hiding in the Greek underworld
    Posts: 4,904
    I had heard both things @vzok I have heard that it was going to be something else and then I heard more recently because of CR doing well in 1954 they wanted a series. Not sure where the truth lies.

    I think it would be interesting to see a weekly show about James Bond. I agree that in 1958 this would limit the travel the show did and the scope would be scaled down. We might get more into the character of Bond though. My question is would CBS want him to be Jimmy Bond or would they allow him to be British?

  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    Who could have played Bond in a late 50s tv show?
  • thedovethedove hiding in the Greek underworld
    Posts: 4,904
    Would they bring back Barry Nelson? Dare I say Roger Moore? I don't know if he was a name back then and whether American audiences would warm to him.

    Do you think the American TV would allow him to be British?
  • thedovethedove hiding in the Greek underworld
    Posts: 4,904
    Okay our what if into Bond on the small screen stalled so lets jump star this thread with another great what if.

    First a back story to this what if is in order. Kevin McClory had remake rights 10 years after TB came out. This meant in 1975 he could legally produce and release another Bond picture...provided it followed the plot of TB. In 1975 McClory started getting his ducks in a row for a production. He hired Len Deighton to write a screen play. He gave Connery the creative control he was looking for and therefore scored a coup with Sean planning to return to the role. He even won a small court battle with EON over their script of TSWLM. McClory claiming that Spy wasn't allowed to use Blofeld or SPECTRE has planned since both had come from TB. EON ended up taking Kevin to court over his proposed movie. Connery sensing things weren't quite right pulled out and Warhead was dead in the water.

    But what if that court stuff hadn't happened. What if Kevin McClory was able to get his film off the ground and released in 1977? The film would star Connery, with a script by Len Deighton. It was rumoured that Richard Attenborough would direct and Orson Welles would star as Blofeld.

    What say you Mi6? What if McClory had released his remake of TB in 1977 called Warhead? Would it have been a success? Would it effect Spy? How do you think Sean Connery would have been welcomed back as Bond in 1977?
  • Major_BoothroydMajor_Boothroyd Republic of Isthmus
    Posts: 2,721
    I suspect it would have been the same as OP and NSNA - double interest in rival Bonds - with TSWLM coming out on top the way OP did over NSNA. I would have been more interested in the one in the late 90s that McClory wanted to produce with Dalton as a rival Bond. I think that would have been curious and Brosnan was a big enough Bond success to withstand the competition.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 7,999
    I suspect it would have been the same as OP and NSNA - double interest in rival Bonds - with TSWLM coming out on top the way OP did over NSNA.

    I'm not so sure the dynamic would have been similar to OP/NSNA. By OP, Moore had the role for ten years and definitively solidified himself as a credible Bond worth going up against Connery's rival film. It was practically an even match. Two legends with each having a generation of fans.

    To go back to 1977, we'd have to consider the timing of releases between TSWLM and WH, and what was Moore's stance when it came to the legacy of Bond. Prior to the release of TSWLM, Moore had only done two films. LALD being the highest grossing Bond film of the series, followed by a very sharp drop with TMWTGG that was below part both critically and financially. This is why McClory was being so brazen at this point with his lawsuits and hiring of Connery. He could smell the blood in the water, and was ready for the kill. Could TSWLM have stood a chance against a Connery project the way OP had? If it did, I think it would have been seen as an even bigger triumph for Moore to pull off. If it didn't, it may have added to the narrative of Connery being the top Bond.

    I would have been more interested in the one in the late 90s that McClory wanted to produce with Dalton as a rival Bond. I think that would have been curious and Brosnan was a big enough Bond success to withstand the competition.

    The only reason McClory ever got to get ONE Bond film made at all was because of Connery, and Connery alone. Him managing to get a film made without him seems way too unrealistic, let alone the idea of Dalton actually willing to participate in a rival film against EON. Truthfully he was insanely lucky to convince Connery to get in on the project. Had he not, I don't think anyone would have taken McClory seriously.
  • BondStuBondStu Moonraker 6
    Posts: 373
    Ahh... the big "what if". I'm actually quite partial to Never Say Never Again. I'm really glad it exists and it's always a part of my annual Bond marathon.

    I'm going to come out and admit it now... I really wish McClory's third version of the story with Timothy Dalton got made. That would have been cracking fun.
  • Posts: 15,785
    I kind of like the over the top sharks and Statue of Liberty finale McClory was planning.
    I imagine had things gone as planned WARHEAD might have had a similar tone to a Roger style film. Somewhere I read the proposed film described as "Star Wars underwater".
    Initially Connery joined the project as script collaborator and writer with no intention whatsoever of playing Bond. I don't believe Micheline suggested he play the role until much later, around the time NSNA was becoming a reality.
    I think a big "what if" might be who McClory was considering to play Bond against Roger's TSWLM.
  • Posts: 4,023
    I heard Connery was involved in writing with Deighton. Didn’t know he would star. I think Connery might have surpassed Moore at box office if it had come out before TSWLM.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    Warhead was the working title for NSNA. The proposed title in 1976 was JAMES BOND OF THE SECRET SERVICE.

    Anyway, I have read that Trevor Howard was cast as M.
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  • thedovethedove hiding in the Greek underworld
    edited September 2019 Posts: 4,904
    When looking into this "what if" my research suggested that Broccoli had filed a lawsuit to stop the James Bond of the Secret Service title as it was felt to be too close to OHMSS.

    Okay sounds like we have another what if for another day. What if Dalton had made the film in the 90's with McClory and Sony.

    As for this battle. I like the scene set of @MakeshiftPython and it is something I had never considered before. Moore was on shaky footing in 1977, the whole series was and I think McClory had a chance to get a victory in his battle of the Bonds. But I think he got a bit too cocky and it cost him a chance.

    I think Connery in 1976-77 was in good shape and would bring his A game. Whether a script that dealt with sharks and NYC would be taken serious or play to his strengths I am not really sure. I think it would have been a closer battle then we may think.
  • Posts: 2,887
    Dalton would never have made a film with McClory. He was very close to Cubby and the Broccoli family. Let's also consider that the Sony executive who wanted to make the McClory film was also the one who helped force out Dalton from the EON series. So the idea of Dalton--widely if erroneously seen in the 90s as the man who almost killed the series--starring in a renegade Bond film is out of the question.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    Loyalty towards EON was also why Peter Hunt turned down the director job in the 80s. He was asked after Richard Donner turned it down first. I believe it was Connery who got Kershner on board, as they had worked together before, on A FINE MADNESS (1966).
  • Posts: 4,023
    Revelator wrote: »
    Dalton would never have made a film with McClory. He was very close to Cubby and the Broccoli family. Let's also consider that the Sony executive who wanted to make the McClory film was also the one who helped force out Dalton from the EON series. So the idea of Dalton--widely if erroneously seen in the 90s as the man who almost killed the series--starring in a renegade Bond film is out of the question.

    Liam Neeson was often linked at that time too.
  • BondStuBondStu Moonraker 6
    Posts: 373
    I think I also read George Lazenby was considered for NSNA - I'm presuming as a back up in case the deal with Connery fell through.

    Anyone know if there's any truth to that one?
  • Posts: 4,023
    I heard Lazenby was considered. Can’t remember when. Was Warhead also resurfacing in the late 80s?
  • thedovethedove hiding in the Greek underworld
    Posts: 4,904
    I believe Warhead was surfacing at various points. McClory was always looking to do something with it. Can't say that I can blame him. He was in a unique position and wanted to get a return on his win.

    If we can take the discussion back to 1977. (though I think a future What if will deal with Warhead 2000).

    Broccoli was already planning Spy to be a big adventure. Warhead would need to match it. I believe it was Paramount who was the studio going to make a go of the film. They had provided a budget of $22 million which sounds quite small but back in those days that was a good chunk of change. All my research says Connery would star as Bond. But if you don't think he would, who else could they have got in 1977 to play the role?

    I find it interesting that both Spy and Warhead would have heavily featured underwater action and plots. That might have made it even more interesting in a battle of the Bond scenario. Hamlish was tied to Spy, would Barry had been able to score Warhead? Or too loyal to Broccoli?
  • MinionMinion Don't Hassle the Bond
    Posts: 1,165
    Was Hamlisch chosen purposely over Barry, or was he busy with another project (or tax exile)?
  • thedovethedove hiding in the Greek underworld
    Posts: 4,904
    I believe it was tax exile.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 7,999
    Did McClory ever try branching out beyond Bond? The fact he thought he could just continue making the same film over and over gave me the impression that he not only had nothing else to offer but that he was somewhat delusional. I can understand that he felt robbed because he participated in what was supposed to be the very first Bond film and he got screwed over in various ways. He felt EON owed him more just for having the idea of kickstarting a Bond film franchise. It’s kind of sad that’s all he seemed to pursue.
  • WalecsWalecs On Her Majesty's Secret Service
    Posts: 3,157
    Even more sad that he claimed to be affectionate of his own creature yet when he made Blofeld on screen he tried to copy EON's and gave him a white cat.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 7,999
    He had a pretty unique opportunity to create his own kind of Bond film, but instead opted to ride on EON's coattails by conforming it to their formula as closely as possible, short of actually using EON copyright material. He was not interested in rethinking what Bond film could be.
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