NO TIME TO DIE (2021) - Discuss Hans Zimmer's Score

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  • edited November 2019 Posts: 3,333
    I totally disagree @talos7 that “Either way, the score to FYEO shows the danger of doing a score that is too current or trendy.“ Conti’s score was far from trendy or current back in ‘81, it sounded dated even at the time. It was the first Bond score I refused to buy because it sounded so MOTR cheesy disco, not even good disco, which was already making way for the New Wave electronic sound popular in the UK charts. Conti’s score sounded like something from a Stylistic’s disco album from the early to mid-Seventies. Unlike today, the music scene changed rapidly fast and Conti’s score wasn’t at all current. Maybe by American standards, but certainly not British ones. Even Georgio Moroder’s Midnight Express, which was groundbreaking in ‘78, sounded a little backwards 3 years later due to the progressive music scene.

    I had to laugh at somebody’s comment about Conti using a 1st generation Moog on FYEO. Considering Barry used one back in ‘69, along with The Beatles, and Kubrick for Clockwork Orange, not to forget all the early 70’s prog rock bands (Keith Emerson being the most influential in its development) I found it comical that someone could think the Moog was still in its infancy by ‘81.

    Anyway, I hope Arnold is back and I’m not getting my hopes up.
  • Posts: 5,767
    talos7 wrote: »

    The second quote that you have credited to me , concerning the Synthesizer, is not mine.

    Either way, the score to FYEO shows the danger of doing a score that is too current or trendy..
    I´m sorry for wrongly quoting you, @talos7, I fixed my post.

    Regarding the dangers of doing trendy scores, I think if a score was popular on it´s release and now people find it outdated, that only speaks in favor of the score catching the zeitgeist of the period it was released in. If people liked a certain style then and don´t like the same style now, then they can´t blame the style. And if they didn´t like it back then, then the style isn´t outdated.

  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited November 2019 Posts: 14,861
    Zekidk wrote: »
    If you rather Bond films stick to a more conservative orchestra, fair enough.
    Not necessarily. I just want a score/sound that I don't think sounds dated after 10 years.
    That's why I am rooting for Arnold to come back. Here we have him blending classic sound with modern (from 01:32) and more than 20 years later it still sounds fresh:

    I’d say that’s extremely 90s. Don’t forget Backseat Driver essentially being Big Beat (remember that?). Even his leaning on the 60s sound (dated in itself!) was very 90s as around that time everyone was obsessed with the 60s aesthetic: Michael Caine posters everywhere, Oasis pretending to be be the Beatles, Andy Williams at no.1 etc. But there’s nothing wrong with something being of its time.
  • edited November 2019 Posts: 3,333
    And yet Bill Conti didn’t capture the zeitgeist in 1981 @boldfinger. What he captured was reminiscent of a sound that harkened back to 1975. Here is that already dated Bill Conti sound I was referring to when I mentioned The Stylistics in my previous comment ...

    This was a hit in 1975, which has all the hallmarks and brass build up as Conti’s terrible score. It’s bland soul/disco before the Bee Gees revolutionised it with their own take on it in ‘77. I’m not sure where you’re getting this “score was popular on its release and now people find it outdated, that only speaks in favor of the score catching the zeitgeist of the period it was released in”? The album soundtrack was a commercial flop, only reaching number 84 in the US Billboard charts. It performed so badly that when the CD format took off a few years later, it was never re-released, only available on bootleg until 2000 with the deluxe editions. I don’t even think it made the British album charts in ‘81 it was so bad.

    Update: I’ve just double/checked my facts and I was correct. Conti’s soundtrack failed to enter the UK album chart.

    As I said above, and take it from someone who was an adult and a huge record buyer at the time, apart from the Sheena Easton title song, Conti’s soundtrack wasn’t that popular, not even with soundtrack enthusiasts.
  • Posts: 3,161

    mtm wrote: »
    Zekidk wrote: »
    If you rather Bond films stick to a more conservative orchestra, fair enough.
    Not necessarily. I just want a score/sound that I don't think sounds dated after 10 years.
    That's why I am rooting for Arnold to come back. Here we have him blending classic sound with modern (from 01:32) and more than 20 years later it still sounds fresh:

    I’d say that’s extremely 90s. Don’t forget Backseat Driver essentially being Big Beat (remember that?).
    Yes, Arnold has some cues from TND that sound dated, IMO. Never liked that beat on Backseat Driver, which was modern at that time. Regarding 'Hamburg Break-in" - I disagree. I don't think people in general would think "oh, that's so 90's", but I could be wrong.
  • edited November 2019 Posts: 3,333
    Yeah, I agree with you @Zekidk that Backseat Driver sounds a little dated due to Arnold using Propellerheads to help with the scoring of that track, especially as they’re no longer in vogue anymore. I suppose it’s the equivalent of using Yello in LTK to help score a scene, it would heavily date it to that period. But then is that necessarily a bad thing? My big complaint about FYEO is that it didn’t represent the music scene of ‘81, unless one considers early 80’s porn music as fashionable.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,000
    The only track that reminds me of the porn music in FYEO is “Make it Last All Night”.
  • 00Agent00Agent Any man who drinks Dom Perignon '52 can't be all bad.
    Posts: 5,185
    The only track that reminds me of the porn music in FYEO is “Make it Last All Night”.

    With that title no wonder lol.
  • Posts: 3,333
    The only track that reminds me of the porn music in FYEO is “Make it Last All Night”.
    Watched a lot of early 80’s porn, have you @MakeshiftPython?
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,000
    Can you feel it inside you? Can you feel it inside me too?
  • edited November 2019 Posts: 17,241
    Ooh, ooh, ooh, can you feel it moving smooth and slow?
    Ooh, ooh, ooh, ease on back and let the loving flow


    Brilliant lyrics. :))
  • edited November 2019 Posts: 3,161
    bondsum wrote: »
    Yeah, I agree with you @Zekidk that Backseat Driver sounds a little dated due to Arnold using Propellerheads to help with the scoring of that track, especially as they’re no longer in vogue anymore. I suppose it’s the equivalent of using Yello in LTK to help score a scene, it would heavily date it to that period. But then is that necessarily a bad thing?
    It depends. Yello, Kraftwerk, Yazoo etc have nothing to do in a Bond movie, unless for a comic relief, like using that Beach Boys song from 1965 in AVTAK.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,000
    It was Gidea Park, not The Beach Boys.
  • Posts: 3,161
    Didn't know that Gidea Park wrote "California Girls" - guess you learn something every day :-)
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,000
    Cover, not wrote. ;)
  • RyanRyan Canada
    Posts: 692
    If this is indeed true, then I feel like EON might hold off on a formal announcement until they have a replacement locked and loaded. Then the headlines would be more along the lines of "Dan Romer exits, David Arnold returns" or something to that effect. Otherwise, the press might have yet another field day with this "disastrous Bond production" where crew members keep quitting.

    I would welcome David Arnold with open arms because I genuinely love his scores. Considering he's been away for over a decade, I think he would feel revitalized and ready to give us something akin to CR/QOS but turned up to 11.
  • edited November 2019 Posts: 644
    talos7 wrote: »
    I wish Arnold’s overall scores were as good as that one track.

    They are, with CR and QOS being even better. 😏

    DAD and QOS are really the only Arnold scores I find myself revisiting the most. DAD for basically being Arnold "let loose", and QOS being his most cohesive work. Forster assigning Arnold to base the writing of the score on the script rather than dailies did wonders.

    Everything else I wouldn't be upset about never hearing again.
    I’d say your tastes are questionable if you keep revisiting Arnold’s worst Bond score DAD and somehow find it more memorable than his others. I’m not saying it’s a terrible score by any means but certainly a big drop from his previous 2 or his next 2. There’s simply nothing there that even comes close to the beauty of “White Knight” or the Thames boat chase theme! And some of the techno stuff is actually painful to listen to and just eat-splittingly bad!

    Perhaps letting Arnold “let loose” on that one was not such a hot idea.
  • Yea, DAD was a bit of a dud. Everyone raised the bar with CR, and Arnold excelled himself.
    I think I saw someone on here last night compare Nino Rota's Godfather score with the FYEO soundtrack.... I'm afraid some people just have cloth-ears.
  • Posts: 5,767
    bondsum wrote: »
    And yet Bill Conti didn’t capture the zeitgeist in 1981 @boldfinger. What he captured was reminiscent of a sound that harkened back to 1975. Here is that already dated Bill Conti sound I was referring to when I mentioned The Stylistics in my previous comment ...

    This was a hit in 1975, which has all the hallmarks and brass build up as Conti’s terrible score. It’s bland soul/disco before the Bee Gees revolutionised it with their own take on it in ‘77. I’m not sure where you’re getting this “score was popular on its release and now people find it outdated, that only speaks in favor of the score catching the zeitgeist of the period it was released in”? The album soundtrack was a commercial flop, only reaching number 84 in the US Billboard charts. It performed so badly that when the CD format took off a few years later, it was never re-released, only available on bootleg until 2000 with the deluxe editions. I don’t even think it made the British album charts in ‘81 it was so bad.

    Update: I’ve just double/checked my facts and I was correct. Conti’s soundtrack failed to enter the UK album chart.

    As I said above, and take it from someone who was an adult and a huge record buyer at the time, apart from the Sheena Easton title song, Conti’s soundtrack wasn’t that popular, not even with soundtrack enthusiasts.
    Fair enough, @bondsum. I have no problem with people not liking the score, I like it. But I wish we could leave claims such as "it was so bad it didn´t even reach the charts" out of the equation. I think there´s hardly a soul not dreading the prospect of a chart-leading artist getting a Bond gig, so a score might have been good or it might have been bad, but please let´s not take the charts as proof.

  • WalecsWalecs On Her Majesty's Secret Service
    Posts: 3,157
    talos7 wrote: »
    I wish Arnold’s overall scores were as good as that one track.

    They are, with CR and QOS being even better. 😏

    DAD and QOS are really the only Arnold scores I find myself revisiting the most. DAD for basically being Arnold "let loose", and QOS being his most cohesive work. Forster assigning Arnold to base the writing of the score on the script rather than dailies did wonders.

    Everything else I wouldn't be upset about never hearing again.
    I’d say your tastes are questionable if you keep revisiting Arnold’s worst Bond score DAD and somehow find it more memorable than his others. I’m not saying it’s a terrible score by any means but certainly a big drop from his previous 2 or his next 2. There’s simply nothing there that even comes close to the beauty of “White Knight” or the Thames boat chase theme! And some of the techno stuff is actually painful to listen to and just eat-splittingly bad!

    Perhaps letting Arnold “let loose” on that one was not such a hot idea.

    On the Beach, How do you intend to kill me?, Some Kind of Hero, Kiss of Love, Peaceful Fountain of Desire, Welcome to Cuba/Cuban Car, Jinx Jordan, White Out, Gustav's Gravitational Exit are all great tracks.
  • edited November 2019 Posts: 17,241
    I think the DAD score is alright, and suits the film very well. Not my favourite by Arnold, but still one I can listen to when I'm in the mood. Do love the song titles though; A Touch of Frost, What’s In it For You?, Some Kind of Hero?, Moneypenny Gets It, etc.
  • I'm firmly in the camp who says 'I want something new!' However, if it doesn't sound Bondian, I'm sure I'll have a little moan.

    The truth is Bond music has such a definitive sound that is indebted to Barry. David Arnold inherently understood that and always worked within that tenet. Other composers wanted to do 'their own thing.' Naturally, these scores age badly with fans. (Though I think Eric Serra's score is a work of iconoclastic genius)

    Though......we need to consider the facts of the situation. Everything seems to say that Dan Romer is still the composer.

    Firstly if Romer has been fired, then it's likely this decision has been made and Romer is back home. If you're ever been in such a situation, you'd know that you'd be feeling a little worthless and embarrassed. I'd quietly avoid social media, but I would be obliged to delete this post from my Instagram where I'm basically congratulating myself for getting a job I no longer have:



    It's still online.

    Secondly, Romer is still following the official 007 account and CJF.

    Moreover, Romer's friend posted this photo on 25 October 2019 with the caption saying that he was now in London:



    So if Romer did get fired, it happened in the last week......
  • CraigMooreOHMSSCraigMooreOHMSS Dublin, Ireland
    edited November 2019 Posts: 8,009
    My gut is telling me that Romer is still on-board. But, you never know. Of all the things to start rumors about for a buzz, the composer would be least juicy one so there would have to be something to it. If it does end up being true, I'll feel for the guy. He seems like a good dude and I had faith that he would do something very fitting for Fukanaga's Bond film.
  • edited November 2019 Posts: 17,241
    Could it be something in the middle; that initial cues and whatnot weren't to EON's taste - and he's currently working on a new approach to the score? We've seen rumours with some truth before, yet they've been far from spot on.

    Probably unlikely though…
  • ResurrectionResurrection Kolkata, India
    Posts: 2,541
    So Romer is still on board. Good
  • MinionMinion Don't Hassle the Bond
    Posts: 1,165
    So Romer is still on board. Good
    Until we hear otherwise, that’s a safe assumption.
  • Bentley007Bentley007 Manitoba, Canada
    Posts: 564
    I'm firmly in the camp who says 'I want something new!' However, if it doesn't sound Bondian, I'm sure I'll have a little moan.

    The truth is Bond music has such a definitive sound that is indebted to Barry. David Arnold inherently understood that and always worked within that tenet. Other composers wanted to do 'their own thing.' Naturally, these scores age badly with fans. (Though I think Eric Serra's score is a work of iconoclastic genius)

    Though......we need to consider the facts of the situation. Everything seems to say that Dan Romer is still the composer.

    Firstly if Romer has been fired, then it's likely this decision has been made and Romer is back home. If you're ever been in such a situation, you'd know that you'd be feeling a little worthless and embarrassed. I'd quietly avoid social media, but I would be obliged to delete this post from my Instagram where I'm basically congratulating myself for getting a job I no longer have:



    It's still online.

    Secondly, Romer is still following the official 007 account and CJF.

    Moreover, Romer's friend posted this photo on 25 October 2019 with the caption saying that he was now in London:



    So if Romer did get fired, it happened in the last week......

    I am beginning to question the rumour too
  • CraigMooreOHMSSCraigMooreOHMSS Dublin, Ireland
    Posts: 8,009
    Minion wrote: »
    So Romer is still on board. Good
    Until we hear otherwise, that’s a safe assumption.

    It's only logical.
  • I think it's foolish to worry about any aspect of a movie's look/sound being dated because all movies eventually date. The passage of time stops for no movie, no matter how cool or lame it may seem at the time.

    Things are fashionable for a time, then something else becomes cool, and the old thing looks woefully out of date. Then after 2-4 decades, when the people who grew up with it become adults, that thing will become retro and back in style. After that, it just becomes period dressing.

    Remember how hard the Bond films of the 80s increasingly tried to avoid the 60s/70s films? Almost no tuxedos and elegant three-piece suits, no supervillains wanting to take over the world with ridiculous space technology, darker tones, and fewer one-liners/silly names.

    Then Brosnan comes along in the 90s and we're back to a lighter tone, space satellites destroying things galore, Xenia Onnatopp, Bond "brushing up on a foreign tongue"... you get the picture.
  • HildebrandRarityHildebrandRarity Centre international d'assistance aux personnes déplacées, Paris, France
    edited November 2019 Posts: 467
    The cheap synth score for Scarface fits the movie. It's about some gangster who thinks he's made it big, but still has no taste.

    If the composer were fired five months before release, it wouldn't be such a big deal. These things happen all the time. The original composer for The Right Stuff was used by director Philip Kaufman for anything that went wrong during production. His replacement only had weeks to write and record the score, and had to fight Kaufman who wanted him to stick to temp tracks (classical music by Holst and Tchaikovsky, for instance) as much as possible, which resulted in a lot of fighting. The replacement still won the Oscar for that score. It was Bill Conti... who replaced John Barry.
    On the other hand, John Barry wrote the score to The Man with the Golden Gun in three weeks, and it quite shows...

    Hans Zimmer is a tricky question, given that most of his scoring duties these days are done by a team, with his contributions being uneven.

    There was an interview a few days ago with Randy Newman (Thomas' first cousin), who's an old-fashioned composer on his own (the four Toy Story films and a lot of other scores). He tends to comment on scores he hates (about Mystic River, he said something that at some point he had noticed an improvement, but he realized that it was actually the guy next to him whose phone was ringing, and I know for a fact he's not a fan of the current modal scores). Given that a few names of the composers he discussed were mentioned here, this passage might be of interest to you:
    His own taste in scores remains fairly catholic. “Guys who are good at this field, they’re all old, I think,” Newman says. “I’m sure there’s young guys. The guy who did ‘Death of Stalin’ (Christopher Willis), for instance, is really good. But basically Johnny Williams is still the best guy, for almost anything. Johnny Williams is the best guy that I would hire if I had a movie. I might hire myself, depending on the movie, but I would hire him (first) — he’s still the best guy. And Alan Silvestri, I just saw, he did one of those “Avenger” pictures, and it’s a little better than they’ve ever been, musically, because he did it. And my cousin Tom is very good. Very different from me, but really good. And tremendously good under dialogue.”

    https://variety.com/2019/music/news/randy-newman-reached-into-his-past-for-marriage-story-score-1203389027/

    Coincidentally, Randy Newman had completed a score for Air Force One, that the producers didn't like, and he was replaced by Jerry Goldsmith, who also had weeks to come up with material. It turns out that the Newman soundtrack surfaced and people put together YouTube videos which suggest it was actually good, given that Newman had zero credentials for this type of picture. Some of it was also reused for Toy Story 3, as the director loved these cues.
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