Bond film ranking tournament. LALD vs DAD and TSWLM vs CR

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  • Andi1996RueggAndi1996Ruegg Hello. It's me, Evelyn Tremble.
    Posts: 2,005
    TSWLM and FYEO
  • Posts: 3,184
    FYEO wins both.
  • pachazopachazo Make Your Choice
    Posts: 6,483
    My two favorite Moore entries. I love FYEO, more than most here, it's always been in my top ten, so I hate to do this but.... I prefer TSWLM by a hair.

    FYEO beats AVTAK handily though.
  • BMW_with_missilesBMW_with_missiles All the usual refinements.
    Posts: 2,816
    TSWLM over FYEO by one of the widest margins imaginable.

    FYEO over AVTAK, but only just.
  • BennyBenny Moderator
    Posts: 8,701
    This is more like it. At least the first match.
    SPY and FYEO are two of my favourite Moore films, FYEO is one I enjoy more every time I watch it. Quite under rated by many fans I feel. However TSWLM was the film that got me started on the Bond journey, and simply cannot be over looked. By a very close margin TSWLM beats FYEO.
    As for the second match up of FYEO vs AVTAK, not quite so close, though AVTAK is a much better film than I remember. (Despite my overall ranking of it).
    The score, the settings, the villains and Moore and Macnee make this film, one to enjoy. Even if Sir Rog was playing Bond in a film too many.
    FYEO beats AVTAK
  • BondAficionadoBondAficionado Former IMDBer
    Posts: 1,554
    TSWLM is Moore's best film imho, so it wins this round.

    Even though I recently re-watched FYEO and I surprisingly found many new things to appreciate, AVTAK is way more enjoyable. I.e. The dullest scene in AVTAK beats the most exciting one in FYEO. The only thing that is noticeably better in FYEO is Moore's performance, and for me that gets easily overshadowed by the other major factors (action/score/locations/ensemble cast).
  • ForYourEyesOnlyForYourEyesOnly In the untained cradle of the heavens
    edited December 2017 Posts: 1,984
    TSWLM is Moore's best film imho, so it wins this round.

    Even though I recently re-watched FYEO and I surprisingly found many new things to appreciate, AVTAK is way more enjoyable. I.e. The dullest scene in AVTAK beats the most exciting one in FYEO. The only thing that is noticeably better in FYEO is Moore's performance, and for me that gets easily overshadowed by the other major factors (action/score/locations/ensemble cast).

    You're entitled to your opinion of course but of the four you listed at the end I can only agree with score.

    How is the action in AVTAK better? FYEO's car chase was better than the Paris one, its ski chase was better, the warehouse fight culminating with the car over the cliff beats the mansion fight culminating in the villains running away from rock salt guns and the mountaineering beats holding onto the mooring rope for an eon. Keelhauling destroys the fire truck scene. Though I would hand the finale on top of the Golden Gate above the finale in FYEO by far. Nothing memorable by way of fisticuffs in FYEO but there's nothing as bad as that basement fight in AVTAK, lol.

    Locations? I guess it's subjective but FYEO does a great job with the establishing shots of the snow, Melina's home, the monastery, etc. Excellent job underwater as well. Apart from the establishing shot of the chateau and the shot of SF bay while Bond's hanging onto the blimp, I don't remember the locations in AVTAK being anything special.

    Ensemble cast — I agree that the villain and henchman in AVTAK are easily better than the ones in FYEO, but literally everything else in better in FYEO to me. Far better Bond girl (Countess Lisl beats Pola Ivanola for me as well), Columbo beats Sir Godfrey (though I do like him) and Ferrara beats Chuck Lee the non-character. I guess since FYEO's wins here involve far more minor characters I can see your point, though for me the biggest gap is between the Bond girls.
  • BondAficionadoBondAficionado Former IMDBer
    Posts: 1,554
    TSWLM is Moore's best film imho, so it wins this round.

    Even though I recently re-watched FYEO and I surprisingly found many new things to appreciate, AVTAK is way more enjoyable. I.e. The dullest scene in AVTAK beats the most exciting one in FYEO. The only thing that is noticeably better in FYEO is Moore's performance, and for me that gets easily overshadowed by the other major factors (action/score/locations/ensemble cast).

    You're entitled to your opinion of course but of the four you listed at the end I can only agree with score.

    How is the action in AVTAK better? FYEO's car chase was better than the Paris one, its ski chase was better, the warehouse fight culminating with the car over the cliff beats the mansion fight culminating in the villains running away from rock salt guns and the mountaineering beats holding onto the mooring rope for an eon. Keelhauling destroys the fire truck scene. Though I would hand the finale on top of the Golden Gate above the finale in FYEO by far. Nothing memorable by way of fisticuffs in FYEO but there's nothing as bad as that basement fight in AVTAK, lol.

    Locations? I guess it's subjective but FYEO does a great job with the establishing shots of the snow, Melina's home, the monastery, etc. Excellent job underwater as well. Apart from the establishing shot of the chateau and the shot of SF bay while Bond's hanging onto the blimp, I don't remember the locations in AVTAK being anything special.

    Ensemble cast — I agree that the villain and henchman in AVTAK are easily better than the ones in FYEO, but literally everything else in better in FYEO to me. Far better Bond girl (Countess Lisl beats Pola Ivanola for me as well), Columbo beats Sir Godfrey (though I do like him) and Ferrara beats Chuck Lee the non-character. I guess since FYEO's wins here involve far more minor characters I can see your point, though for me the biggest gap is between the Bond girls.

    The action in AVTAK is simply more thrilling. The whole Eiffel Tower scene and the resulting car 'chase' are both unique to the franchise and rather enjoyable too imho.

    I'm in the minority here, but I do get a kick out of the entire firetruck scene. The keelhauling scene you mentioned is quite awful. Basically Melina going "owh!" for 2 minutes while Bond fidgets with some buttons. Back to AVTAK, the rocksalt scene is kinda corny, but I love how Bond takes control of the situation as soon as he sees the goons. Just the manner of him snatching the shotgun from Stacey as if she never was a danger to him in the first place. I also admire the fact that he thought about shooting them point-blank even before knowing it was rocksalt loaded. Finally you have the Golden Gate bridge fight, which is so so so much fun to watch.

    The only action scenes which I think are above average in FYEO are: the Citroen chase and the rock climbing bit. That's it.

    For the locations I'm not talking about establishing shots or the cinematography, but where they actually are and how they use those locations. AVTAK makes great use of the Eiffel Tower and SF bay (can't go wrong with these places anyway), and along with LALD, I think it's the only other time that Bond in the US has worked. In contrast, FYEO feels like it was filmed all in the same location. Forgive the hyperbole, but it feels like we're in Cortina for 5 hours of the film. Hell, I don't even know what was Cortina and what was Greece! I do love the underwater shots though, they stand out.

    Nah. You see for me, I like Stacey. Stacey beats Melina any day of the week. Neither are great actresses (can we at least agree on that?), so let's not get into that. But as a character, Stacey is more principled and 'real' than Melina. Like what does Melina do for a job even? In addition, Bouquet was dubbed and I absolutely hate unnecessary dubbing in VO films. Ruins the experience. As for the ensemble, FYEO has one of the weakest of them all. Only Columbo saves it from being the worst. It's this weak cast that makes FYEO so dull imho.

  • royale65royale65 Caustic misanthrope reporting for duty.
    Posts: 3,919
    Spy over FYEO

    and

    FYEO over AVTAK
  • Shark_0f_LargoShark_0f_Largo Lancashire, UK
    Posts: 4,151
    TSWLM & AVTAK
  • GBFGBF
    Posts: 2,899
    FYEO

    And

    AVTAK

    I love both, AVTAK and FYEO in a similar way... but slightly prefer AVTAK...
  • GoldenGunGoldenGun Station B, Belgium
    Posts: 3,469
    FYEO beats TSWLM, which I find a bit dragging near the end.

    AVTAK is more entertaining than either of those in my mind. Zorin, May Day, Tibett, John Barry and Duran Duran destroy the other two.
  • MooseWithFleasMooseWithFleas Philadelphia
    Posts: 2,651
    Spy over FYEO: Spy is trending slightly downward for me, but still in the top 10, whereas FYEO has stayed reasonably flat in the late teens, currently at 18.

    FYEO over AVTAK: AVTAK on the other hand has trended slightly downward. I love everything at the Zorin stables, but there is too much that drags in the 2nd half and the production value is noticeably lower in quality in certain areas. AVTAK currently sits at 20. Still a lot to like as the characters are all great, but it's currently at a low point for me.
  • mattjoesmattjoes "It's a house made entirely of glass, and you're inside, and you can't get out."
    edited January 2018 Posts: 3,339
    FYEO beats Spy. FYEO beats AVTAK.

    (And Spy beats AVTAK in terms of being a better constructed film, but AVTAK beats Spy in entertainment value.)
  • barryt007barryt007 Getting counselling by Sir Roger over how to kill Kara Milovy
    Posts: 18,520
    TSWLM & AVTAK
  • Major_BoothroydMajor_Boothroyd Republic of Isthmus
    edited January 2018 Posts: 2,564
    I'm going FYEO over TSWLM and AVTAK. I think TSWLM should probably win it on iconic elements alone - but in my rankings FYEO is my second favourite Roger film (after LALD) and unusually - I find it more rewatchable than TSWLM.

    Having said that on the day I heard of Sir Roger passing away I watched TSWLM and FYEO back-to-back and I remember thinking - we as Bond fans are so lucky. These are both great and Roger is terrific in them.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Back on Earth
    Posts: 33,029

    Having said that on the day I heard of Sir Roger passing away I watched TSWLM and FYEO back-to-back and I remember thinking - we as Bond fans are so lucky. These are both great and Roger is terrific in them.

    Excellent choice. Those are my two favourite Moore films.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883

    Having said that on the day I heard of Sir Roger passing away I watched TSWLM and FYEO back-to-back and I remember thinking - we as Bond fans are so lucky. These are both great and Roger is terrific in them.

    Excellent choice. Those are my two favourite Moore films.
    Wasn't one supposed to directly follow the other? I wonder how different FYEO would have been had it been released in 1979 as originally intended.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Back on Earth
    Posts: 33,029
    bondjames wrote: »

    Having said that on the day I heard of Sir Roger passing away I watched TSWLM and FYEO back-to-back and I remember thinking - we as Bond fans are so lucky. These are both great and Roger is terrific in them.

    Excellent choice. Those are my two favourite Moore films.
    Wasn't one supposed to directly follow the other? I wonder how different FYEO would have been had it been released in 1979 as originally intended.

    We would probably have a Lewis Gilbert directed FYEO, with a score by John Barry. Then probably a John Glen directed MR with a score by Bill Conti.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited January 2018 Posts: 23,883
    bondjames wrote: »

    Having said that on the day I heard of Sir Roger passing away I watched TSWLM and FYEO back-to-back and I remember thinking - we as Bond fans are so lucky. These are both great and Roger is terrific in them.

    Excellent choice. Those are my two favourite Moore films.
    Wasn't one supposed to directly follow the other? I wonder how different FYEO would have been had it been released in 1979 as originally intended.

    We would probably have a Lewis Gilbert directed FYEO, with a score by John Barry. Then probably a John Glen directed MR with a score by Bill Conti.
    You're probably right, but for some reason I just can't wrap my head around that. The stories would have been very different (especially MR, which as released was a play on the SW phenomenon. By 1981 that had died down).
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Back on Earth
    Posts: 33,029
    And perhaps Jaws would have shown up in FYEO instead.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    And perhaps Jaws would have shown up in FYEO instead.
    I would have liked that. Kriegler was a bore.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Back on Earth
    Posts: 33,029
    A Jaws/Loque combo, sounds good. The silent henchmen.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited January 2018 Posts: 23,883
    A Jaws/Loque combo, sounds good. The silent henchmen.
    Haha. That's a great idea actually.
  • Posts: 4,037
    FYEO and FYEO
  • PrinceKamalKhanPrinceKamalKhan Monsoon Palace, Udaipur
    Posts: 2,445
    bondjames wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »

    Having said that on the day I heard of Sir Roger passing away I watched TSWLM and FYEO back-to-back and I remember thinking - we as Bond fans are so lucky. These are both great and Roger is terrific in them.

    Excellent choice. Those are my two favourite Moore films.
    Wasn't one supposed to directly follow the other? I wonder how different FYEO would have been had it been released in 1979 as originally intended.

    We would probably have a Lewis Gilbert directed FYEO, with a score by John Barry. Then probably a John Glen directed MR with a score by Bill Conti.
    You're probably right, but for some reason I just can't wrap my head around that. The stories would have been very different (especially MR, which as released was a play on the SW phenomenon. By 1981 that had died down).

    Indeed. They both would've been very different films than the ones that exist in reality. I figure that with Lewis Gilbert directing, Christopher Wood writing, Ken Adam designing and Jaws returning the 1979 Bond film would've been essentially TSWLM II regardless of whether it was called MR or FYEO. It is interesting to ponder where they would've gone afterwards in a world where a 1979 FYEO existed. Would they have followed it with a faithful adaptation of Fleming's MR or done something else altogether?
  • GBFGBF
    Posts: 2,899
    Jaws, the East German biathlete :-) At least, he would have survived the fall from St. Cyril's.
  • Major_BoothroydMajor_Boothroyd Republic of Isthmus
    Posts: 2,564
    Bibi Dahl and Dolly are fairly interchangeable. Dolly Dahl.
  • Major_BoothroydMajor_Boothroyd Republic of Isthmus
    Posts: 2,564
    For Your Double-Taking Eyes Only
  • GBFGBF
    Posts: 2,899
    The continuity problem would have also been solved since the drunken Italian had similar roles in both films.
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