Die Another Day vs Spectre.

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  • ShardlakeShardlake Leeds, West Yorkshire, England
    edited August 2019 Posts: 3,684
    I really don't want to say it but due to the fact I really don't care about the PB era and do really care about the DC era and SPECTRE seriously let me down, it's DAD.

    Believe me I don't want it to be but there you go.
  • Posts: 3,738


    Apart from some of that unnecessary camera zooming in and slowing down, this is an enjoyable car chase. The Ice Palace looks decent too.



    I don’t hate the SP car chase as some do, but I guess they were aiming for balletic and it makes it slow. Placing the chase after Hinx tough entrance into the previous scene was a mistake as tension is lost, and the chatter with MP in mid chase is a puzzle.
  • Posts: 4,430
    Spectre all the way!
  • Posts: 419
    DIE ANOTHER DAY - 4/10
    SPECTRE - 7.5/10
  • Posts: 1,362
    That's a nice comparison of the car chases. I think, aside from the fight sequence on the train which I find really thrilling and well-choreographed and palpably brutal, that sums up the differences in the two movies nicely.

    My opinion has always been that if it weren't for some of its more egregious aspects (and unfortunately some of those are pretty large) Die Another Day would just about be the best Brosnan entry. It'd be neck and neck with GE. It is so kinetic, and there's a lot to love about the first two acts (or there about). Unfortunately, it has Jinx and she brings down some of the otherwise excellent first half when she shows up.
  • Posts: 91
    Spectre for me, although that’s partly because it started a meme at work at the time, which I remember fondly. For a while in our work management meetings we would ask someone to “please state your credentials” for doing something and of course enough of us had seen SP to get the joke. After a few days the jokes at management meetings shifted to some other movie or tv show, but it was the Spectre meeting for a while. Happy days
  • RemingtonRemington I'll do anything for a woman with a knife.
    edited August 2019 Posts: 1,455
    I kind of wanna get into fan editing. My first project would be DAD.

    I'd remove:
    •Most of the puns and Jinx's cringey lines.
    •The entire ice dragster/CGI wave sequence. The film flows perfectly without it.
    •Some poor CGI during the finale.

    Also, I'd reinsert David Arnold's original music that was replaced for certain scenes and the end credits to make it feel more traditional. And maybe use Beyond the Ice by Red Flag as the theme song. It's a little dark but it suits the first third of the film well.

    Not unlike the Icarus edit from a few years back. Not quite as extreme though since I'd still keep the invisible car and VR scenes.
  • Posts: 1,583
    You trim the surf scene, make jinx more serious, keep the ice palace just a place no ice and rename the film Icarus, it would be neck and neck with goldeneye.
  • BirdlesonBirdleson San Jose, CAModerator
    edited August 2019 Posts: 27,864
    I’ve done this many times. I absolutely love the first hour (aside from the Bond/Jinx dialogue, and the Jinx CGI dive), but here goes:

    Lose the CGI
    Lose the sophomoric quips and puns
    Lose the CGI laser and Tsunami
    Lose Jinx (or at least cut her dialogue and screen time in half, and don’t try to make her “Bond’s Equal”, I want a Bond film)
    Lose the Madonna cameo (but keep the rest of the Blades scene, by all means)
    Lose the Iron Man suit
    End the film at the Ice Palace (one of many Bond films that would have been better off clocking in at about 1:50).

    That should give us a damned fun Bond film.
  • w2bondw2bond is indeed a very rare breed
    Posts: 2,020
    And it wouldn't be hard to do. But like Spectre, maybe it was too many cooks. Or one cook with too much say.
  • Posts: 3,738
    Remington wrote: »
    I kind of wanna get into fan editing. My first project would be DAD.

    I'd remove:
    •Most of the puns and Jinx's cringey lines.
    •The entire ice dragster/CGI wave sequence. The film flows perfectly without it.
    •Some poor CGI during the finale.

    Also, I'd reinsert David Arnold's original music that was replaced for certain scenes and the end credits to make it feel more traditional. And maybe use Beyond the Ice by Red Flag as the theme song. It's a little dark but it suits the first third of the film well.

    Not unlike the Icarus edit from a few years back. Not quite as extreme though since I'd still keep the invisible car and VR scenes.

    Which scenes did David Arnold’s music get replaced in?
  • RemingtonRemington I'll do anything for a woman with a knife.
    Posts: 1,455
    vzok wrote: »
    Remington wrote: »
    I kind of wanna get into fan editing. My first project would be DAD.

    I'd remove:
    •Most of the puns and Jinx's cringey lines.
    •The entire ice dragster/CGI wave sequence. The film flows perfectly without it.
    •Some poor CGI during the finale.

    Also, I'd reinsert David Arnold's original music that was replaced for certain scenes and the end credits to make it feel more traditional. And maybe use Beyond the Ice by Red Flag as the theme song. It's a little dark but it suits the first third of the film well.

    Not unlike the Icarus edit from a few years back. Not quite as extreme though since I'd still keep the invisible car and VR scenes.

    Which scenes did David Arnold’s music get replaced in?

    @vzok Bond's return to London, the party at the ice palace, and the end credits. It's all on YouTube.
  • edited August 2019 Posts: 1,362
    @Birdleson Spot on. There would be a way to make the Ice Palace finale have a greater sense of weight and finality to it, as well. I think everything else that's left is just a nice larger than life Bond film with a big camp premise (which I'm fine with).

    God, I'd really like to have seen a Brosnan Bond in 2004 with a more subdued, mature approach, while still retaining some of the elements that his interpretation is linked with. I think he was aging so well into the role.
  • BirdlesonBirdleson San Jose, CAModerator
    Posts: 27,864
    @Birdleson Spot on. There would be a way to make the Ice Palace finale have a greater sense of weight and finality to it, as well. I think everything else that's left is just a nice larger than life Bond film with a big camp premise (which I'm fine with).

    God, I'd really like to have seen a Brosnan Bond in 2004 with a more subdued, mature approach, while still retaining some of the elements that his interpretation is linked with. I think he was aging so well into the role.

    I thought a faithful adaptation of THE SPY WHO LOVED ME would have been great for a seasoned Brosnan (who never got to work form Fleming).
  • MinionMinion Don't Hassle the Bond
    Posts: 832
    Birdleson wrote: »
    @Birdleson Spot on. There would be a way to make the Ice Palace finale have a greater sense of weight and finality to it, as well. I think everything else that's left is just a nice larger than life Bond film with a big camp premise (which I'm fine with).

    God, I'd really like to have seen a Brosnan Bond in 2004 with a more subdued, mature approach, while still retaining some of the elements that his interpretation is linked with. I think he was aging so well into the role.

    I thought a faithful adaptation of THE SPY WHO LOVED ME would have been great for a seasoned Brosnan (who never got to work form Fleming).
    Well, arguably he got pieces of Moonraker in both GE and DAD... but I get your point.
  • BirdlesonBirdleson San Jose, CAModerator
    edited August 2019 Posts: 27,864
    Minion wrote: »
    Well, arguably he got pieces of Moonraker in both GE and DAD... but I get your point.

    That's been put to me before, but plot aspects are quite different than actual dialogue, or scenes. Poor Pierce never got to work with any of Fleming's words or immediate situations as written; and he's the only one of the six never to get that opportunity. What similarities GE and DAD have to the novel MR have no bearing on Brosnan's Bond.
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,336
    Birdleson wrote: »
    I’ve done this many times. I absolutely love the first hour (aside from the Bond/Jinx dialogue, and the Jinx CGI dive), but here goes:

    Lose the CGI
    Lose the sophomoric quips and puns
    Lose the CGI laser and Tsunami
    Lose Jinx (or at least cut her dialogue and screen time in half, and don’t try to make her “Bond’s Equal”, I want a Bond film)
    Lose the Madonna cameo (but keep the rest of the Blades scene, by all means)
    Lose the Iron Man suit
    End the film at the Ice Palace (one of many Bond films that would have been better off clocking in at about 1:50).

    That should give us a damned fun Bond film.

    Agree with all of that. Even with the minor detour of a battered and bruised Bond, it still plays out like a good old fashioned romp for that first hour.
  • mtmmtm
    Posts: 1,282
    Minion wrote: »
    Birdleson wrote: »
    @Birdleson Spot on. There would be a way to make the Ice Palace finale have a greater sense of weight and finality to it, as well. I think everything else that's left is just a nice larger than life Bond film with a big camp premise (which I'm fine with).

    God, I'd really like to have seen a Brosnan Bond in 2004 with a more subdued, mature approach, while still retaining some of the elements that his interpretation is linked with. I think he was aging so well into the role.

    I thought a faithful adaptation of THE SPY WHO LOVED ME would have been great for a seasoned Brosnan (who never got to work form Fleming).
    Well, arguably he got pieces of Moonraker in both GE and DAD... but I get your point.

    What's Moonrakery about GE?
  • BirdlesonBirdleson San Jose, CAModerator
    Posts: 27,864
    mtm wrote: »
    Minion wrote: »
    Birdleson wrote: »
    @Birdleson Spot on. There would be a way to make the Ice Palace finale have a greater sense of weight and finality to it, as well. I think everything else that's left is just a nice larger than life Bond film with a big camp premise (which I'm fine with).

    God, I'd really like to have seen a Brosnan Bond in 2004 with a more subdued, mature approach, while still retaining some of the elements that his interpretation is linked with. I think he was aging so well into the role.

    I thought a faithful adaptation of THE SPY WHO LOVED ME would have been great for a seasoned Brosnan (who never got to work form Fleming).
    Well, arguably he got pieces of Moonraker in both GE and DAD... but I get your point.

    What's Moonrakery about GE?

    I'm not clear on that one either.
  • Posts: 5,194
    Off the top of my head, if we compare the novel MR to the film GE:

    Both are two faced villains, Janus; they are duplicitous in nature and present one face as an ally, the other as the secret enemy who embeds himself.

    Hugo Drax pretended to be an ally of England, a protector of Her Majesty and Her subjects with his Moonraker program, but was plotting its demise; Alec was an an ally and an agent born to protect, but, hiding his family history--

    (as Drax hid his personal history)--

    -- he also was plotting the downfall of England.

    Both wanted to destroy London, and set it back by decades as punishment....

    Very off the top of my head, I see how MR the novel influenced GE the film...
  • BirdlesonBirdleson San Jose, CAModerator
    Posts: 27,864
    Admittedly, I did see most of that, but it’s still pretty broad. I know that DAD was intentionally riffing on and aping aspects of Fleming’s novel; even almost using the name Gala Brand. I don’t ever recall any similar talk centered around GE, coming from EON. But, I could just be ignorant of it. Does anyone know if GE was an intentional nod to Fleming’s MR? There are several key points of intersection, as @peter has pointed out.
  • Posts: 9,594
    The biggest MR novel / DAD film connection I thought of as I read MR for the first time is that the novel Drax is very similar to Gustav Graves in personality.
  • edited August 2019 Posts: 3,738
    Not snow....Ice!

    Well it is snow actually. Spectre has a snow scene that I don't mind. The music is a bit more energetic. Shame Bond's attempts to rescue Madeline are a touch dangerous. Relies on pot luck to keep up with the escaping Hinx.



    In DAD the snow chase sees 007 go on a speed run. He broke Graves' record. The escape from the Ice Palace is exciting enough and the speedster looks ok. But there is that pesky tsunami.

  • mtmmtm
    edited August 2019 Posts: 1,282
    peter wrote: »
    Off the top of my head, if we compare the novel MR to the film GE:

    Both are two faced villains, Janus; they are duplicitous in nature and present one face as an ally, the other as the secret enemy who embeds himself.

    Hugo Drax pretended to be an ally of England, a protector of Her Majesty and Her subjects with his Moonraker program, but was plotting its demise; Alec was an an ally and an agent born to protect, but, hiding his family history--

    (as Drax hid his personal history)--

    -- he also was plotting the downfall of England.

    Both wanted to destroy London, and set it back by decades as punishment....

    Very off the top of my head, I see how MR the novel influenced GE the film...

    That's quite the stretch. DAD is much closer as Drax is a public personality giving something back to the British, who he has been adopted by. Trevelyan is just a more straightforward kind of traitor.
    Something like Licence To Kill is more of an adaptation (of TMWTGG) than GoldenEye is an adaptation of MR.
  • MinionMinion Don't Hassle the Bond
    edited August 2019 Posts: 832
    I’ll admit they’re broader strokes in GE, but it is still about a duplicitous turncoat with a hidden identity and agenda aiming to cripple England with a dangerous super-weapon.
  • mtmmtm
    Posts: 1,282
    Minion wrote: »
    I’ll admit they’re broader strokes in GE, but it is still about a duplicitous turncoat with a hidden identity and agenda aiming to cripple England with a dangerous super-weapon.

    Most Bonds films are! :)
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