Talking about being Politically Correct !

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  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    I find the Bond films deeply offensive, but that is because I identify as a Fridge/Freezer combo, and we aren't represented enough.

    Actually in all seriousness could a non gender specific or non binary (or tranny as normal people call them) henchman or villain work? Obviously we had Bouivard in TB but that wasn't a character as such just a goon in a dress.

    For some reason I'm picturing Lee Tamahore in lipstick and a dress and it seems very sinister and has great hints of the Fleming qualities of benign/bizarre as we have taken to calling them.

    Obviously I wouldnt want Bond ending up in bed with him/her/it (May Day was bad enough) but I think if done properly and with the right actor (Terence Stamp in Priscilla springs to mind) it could be a hoot.

    Have you seen Split @TheWizardOfIce? James Macovoy plays a guy with multiple personality disorder, some of his personalities are evil and work together to kidnap a couple of teenage girls. One of those personalities is a strict prim and proper woman, and it was really creepy and sinister. I think it's an idea more suited to a henchman than a main villain though, not sure why but I just picture it working better that way.

    No. Need to see it as I hear it's half decent and I still have hope that M Night Shylaman might rediscover the early heights of Unbreakable especially with the upcoming Glass.

    Mcavoy has form for this. In the finals of Filth (a film I really enjoy but then I am pretty sick) he makes a pretty frightening tranny in high heels, dress, lipstick and full beard.

    I agree probably works better as a flamboyant henchtranny in the vein of May Day or Xenia.

    It's quite different to Filth (I agree though that's great film), less flamboyant but very unnerving in its own way. There's something really creepy about how it's played/written, it's this strict/nasty but very calm and composed conservative sort of woman. I think either approach could make for a frightening henchman. Definitely worth checking out Split imo. I thought it was great. I liked The Visit but it's Split where his comeback really kicks into gear. Can't wait for Glass.

    Also can we get Mcavoy in a Bond film please? He seems like the sort of guy they would have gone for as a villain in the Brosnan era and I'd prefer a return to that sort of actor over obvious Hollywood villain types like Waltz and Bardem. Christopher Eccleston is another one in the same vein I've been wanting for years.

    In Atomic Blonde he has quite a nice turn as similarly sleazy scumbag to the one he portrays Filth. I think he would be decent as a Bond villain - although not sure he has the chops to be the main one. In another 20 years perhaps.

    Would've been a definite upgrade on Andrew Scott as C though.
  • MajorDSmytheMajorDSmythe "I tolerate this century, but I don't enjoy it."Moderator
    edited January 2018 Posts: 13,894
    Jeffrey wrote: »
    Was wondering if the Jordan Peterson Channel 4 interview was being discussed here. Apparently, it wasn't: did some of you catch this?


    God, that's as bad as a BBC interview. "I'm going to interrupt you, and demand you let me speak when you try to do the same."

    If she actually let him speak, then she wouldn't have to keep asking "So you are saying...?". To encounter such bewildering stupidity, and have kept his cool, Peterson deserves a medal.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    In continuation of what @FoxRox posted, it appears that the culturally sheltered and intellectually barren PC bandaid brigade have finally gotten around to seeing those ancient James Bond movies from the crazy 60s and 70s.

    https://www.express.co.uk/entertainment/films/910375/James-Bond-sexist-racist-Sean-Connery-Roger-Moore-millennials

    Their scholarly opinion? That Bond was a "low key" rapist and sexist. These people had just gotten done complaining about the offensive nature of the 90s sitcom Friends (probably because it made a joke about a non-white character that was just in such bad taste!) so they geared up to tackle Bond's offensive nature with the same kind of sickly energy.

    Here's some of the comments they made, presumably before they returned to jamming a fork into their electrical outlets:
    Watching old James Bond movies and realised: Dude was low key a rapist.
    In the early films, James Bond was a full on rapist! #goldfinger.
    Watching old school Sean Connery James Bond movies. He's basically a rapist who occasionally murders a Russian person.
    Watching ‘Man With The Golden Gun’ and good lordddd the fact that they thought the hyper-racist sheriff character was a fun/wacky presence to bring back speaks volumes.
    If the millenials think friends is sexist they should watch James Bond "A view to Kill" they will go nuts.

    I don't know whether to laugh or bang my head against my wall in reaction, but that's pretty standard for most of the PC driven outrage out there that I read. I could write a book on how Bond is the opposite of this rapist/sexist mashup these ill-informed seem to view him as, as I'm sure many of us could. But I thought it'd be interesting to share their thoughts so that we know what kinds of folks are out there with the ability to vote, procreate, go outdoors, etc.

    Reactions to these films by the PC crowed seem to hit on the same kind of tone that I hear about their responses to other film and literary characters these days. Basically, that these kinds of people who must live their lives getting fed up or upset about something for most of their days can't stand it when characters have flaws, any at all. What we like about Bond, that he's imperfect, fails and makes mistakes that we wouldn't, is part of his appeal and his humanity, the latter of which Fleming really played up in his own books. Why would anyone want to watch a film or show where the characters are squeaky clean and have nothing about them that really challenges our own perceptions of life from the choices they make?

    Smoking is bad for you, so is Bond expected to drop that in the old films, or was Fleming expected to never feature it in his books too, despite the fact that the writer used that flaw of Bond's to interestingly challenge him with a health crises in his work (again, giving his character flaws)? I also don't see the same outrage about Bond's killing from these PC peeps, which should be a concern for viewers to ponder too, no? But as usual, the focus is only on sex and gender relations with no other issues holding sway. I imagine these people will now adopt Pussy Galore as the latest member of the #MeToo movement while ignoring any signals of that woman's own consent in the film itself. But I think we're asking too much for the PC to look deeper beyond the surface of these things when they spend their spare time asking cereal companies to change their box artwork for dubiously racist drawings and ruin people's careers and personal lives because the person dared to make a joke that wasn't a variation on "Knock, knock, who's there?"

    I would be interested to see these people read just Diamonds Are Forever alone to encounter a James Bond so rapey and sexist that he purposefully keeps his distance from a woman who was raped in her past in an effort to respect her boundaries and make her feel more comfortable with men and sex again after being abused and traumatized. Maybe they'd change their tune, or intellectually engage with a character who, despite being a flawed person (the only good kind of character), is also a very pro-woman man who not only worships the fairer sex, but lays down his life to protect them at every turn no matter the consequences to himself.
  • edited January 2018 Posts: 12,837
    I mean to be fair Pussy is literally trying to push him off when he makes his move. It's stupid to make a fuss about it because it's only a film and it's of its time, but in the case of that one specific example lets not pretend it's not a bit awkward watching it now. Even if she had been giving him "signals", it didn't give him the right to force himself on her in that point. Like I said, it's an old movie, so not a big deal, but I don't see an issue with joking about how badly that bit in particular has aged.

    I think Bond is sexist (or misogynist, whichever one is the one that doesn't mean hating women) but part of his appeal is that he's got that dark side to him. He's an anti hero after all. He's meant to be able to get away with killing people and smoking and drinking more than humanly possible and making quips about women drivers, which is why I don't see why they've been toning all that down for the last 20 years or so. They also don't have to keep pointing out how terrible all these flaws are every film (it was cool and postmodern in GE, bit tiring now). All they have to do is play up those sides as edgy, people still like those sorts of anti heros who do stuff that wouldn't be okay in real life. Look at how popular Gene Hunt was.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    A symptom of our times when we can't talk about anything anymore without being concerned about offending some snowflake.
  • DikkoHendersonDikkoHenderson Daniel Craig at the plastic surgery clinic- "Gently my friend Gently... THAT'S NOT BLOODY GENTLY!!"
    Posts: 50
    Bond is a racist? Would a racist share his hairbrush with Quarrel Jr?
  • Posts: 19,339
    Bond is a racist? Would a racist share his hairbrush with Quarrel Jr?

    And 'bang' Rosie & Mayday ;)
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    barryt007 wrote: »
    Bond is a racist? Would a racist share his hairbrush with Quarrel Jr?

    And 'bang' Rosie & Mayday ;)

    Not sure he had much choice with Mayday to be fair.

    If he'd tried to run she'd have taken him down.
  • MajorDSmytheMajorDSmythe "I tolerate this century, but I don't enjoy it."Moderator
    Posts: 13,894
    barryt007 wrote: »
    Bond is a racist? Would a racist share his hairbrush with Quarrel Jr?

    And 'bang' Rosie & Mayday ;)

    Not sure he had much choice with Mayday to be fair.

    If he'd tried to run she'd have taken him down.

    Then Bond could have joined the #Metoo movement.
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    barryt007 wrote: »
    Bond is a racist? Would a racist share his hairbrush with Quarrel Jr?

    And 'bang' Rosie & Mayday ;)

    Not sure he had much choice with Mayday to be fair.

    If he'd tried to run she'd have taken him down.

    Then Bond could have joined the #Metoo movement.

    Well she did pin him to the bed so is there any difference between this sordid encounter and Bond and Pussy in the barn?
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    barryt007 wrote: »
    Bond is a racist? Would a racist share his hairbrush with Quarrel Jr?

    And 'bang' Rosie & Mayday ;)

    Not sure he had much choice with Mayday to be fair.

    If he'd tried to run she'd have taken him down.

    Then Bond could have joined the #Metoo movement.

    Well she did pin him to the bed so is there any difference between this sordid encounter and Bond and Pussy in the barn?
    Men can't be raped, silly. Something to do with patriarchy...blah, blah...male privilege...blah, blah...masculinity....blah, blah...
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    barryt007 wrote: »
    Bond is a racist? Would a racist share his hairbrush with Quarrel Jr?

    And 'bang' Rosie & Mayday ;)

    Not sure he had much choice with Mayday to be fair.

    If he'd tried to run she'd have taken him down.

    Then Bond could have joined the #Metoo movement.

    Well she did pin him to the bed so is there any difference between this sordid encounter and Bond and Pussy in the barn?
    Men can't be raped, silly. Something to do with patriarchy...blah, blah...male privilege...blah, blah...masculinity....blah, blah...

    Fair point.

    And let's not forget Mayday was black and Bond white so she was also righting the wrongs perpetuated over centuries by the white imperialists.

    In fact I think there's a decent case to say this scene is the most PC of the entire series.

    Now if only Mayday was in a wheelchair and was an asylum seeker...
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    barryt007 wrote: »
    Bond is a racist? Would a racist share his hairbrush with Quarrel Jr?

    And 'bang' Rosie & Mayday ;)

    Not sure he had much choice with Mayday to be fair.

    If he'd tried to run she'd have taken him down.

    Then Bond could have joined the #Metoo movement.

    Well she did pin him to the bed so is there any difference between this sordid encounter and Bond and Pussy in the barn?
    Men can't be raped, silly. Something to do with patriarchy...blah, blah...male privilege...blah, blah...masculinity....blah, blah...

    Fair point.

    And let's not forget Mayday was black and Bond white so she was also righting the wrongs perpetuated over centuries by the white imperialists.

    In fact I think there's a decent case to say this scene is the most PC of the entire series.

    Now if only Mayday was in a wheelchair and was an asylum seeker...

    @TheWizardOfIce, I would agree. In the states you'd think it's accepted that every white person must be treated like they themselves took slaves and must face punishment or shame for what our ancestors did when we were -150 years old. Logical, as ever.

    I would like to see this #MeToo, "All Women Are Good and Most Men Are Bad" movement reach a sort of equal playing field though, where there aren't so many double-standards at work. I'd like it if men weren't run through the mud, as if every one of us is just one step away from a rapist, but people never handle these things delicately and so it's always a case of wild extremes. Instead of really discussing the issue of assault/harassment we take it off the rails and lead a sort of head hunting excursion for any man who touches a woman's leg while simultaneously making it out that those who slap asses are equivalent to those like Weinstein who lock a hotel door and rape you on the bed. We don't have the collective intellect or general common sense to face this issue the way it should be done (maturely and with awareness and logic), and that's not even to mention all the double-standards that lean towards women.

    It's just funny how our cultures (in the western world, I mean) view certain things women do vastly different than men, despite the actions being the same. Like how a woman can smack a coworker on the arse and it's viewed as a playful action, but if a man does it the woman would be off to HR and he'd lose his job by lunch. Or how women who date much younger men are playfully viewed as cougars, but men doing the same thing are creeps or perverts. It would be nice to have a little intellectual honesty is all.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    Everyone had slaves, and everyone were slaves. Yet the focus stays on one particular relationship.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    Everyone had slaves, and everyone were slaves. Yet the focus stays on one particular relationship.
    The sad thing is that not enough emphasis is put on the American founders that wanted slavery gone outright, far before Lincoln's time even.

    But I do want to bang my head against a wall when you see statues of Confederate soldiers being toppled while some of the faces on Rushmore had slaves (Jefferson mated with them, on top of it) and the likes of Washington, Madison and more have celebrated statues still standing despite their own ownership of slaves. This isn't a vote to take those statues down, as I think the act itself is ridiculous and those things should be preserved instead of senselessly destroyed. But you can tell that these protesters either don't know history or are being purposefully ignorant to prove their hollow points. I'd like to think it's at least the latter, but I'm not confident.
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    edited February 2018 Posts: 9,117
    Everyone had slaves, and everyone were slaves. Yet the focus stays on one particular relationship.

    Why don't the Egyptians and Chinese get castigated in the same way every white person who has ever lived does? Pretty sure the Pyramids and Great Wall of China were only built on the back of enslavement.
  • edited February 2018 Posts: 12,837
    Everyone had slaves, and everyone were slaves. Yet the focus stays on one particular relationship.

    Why don't the Egyptians and Chinese get castigated in the same way every white person who has ever lived does? Pretty sure the Pyramids and Great Wall of China were only built on the back of enslavement.

    The pyramids were. I know that because of the bit in Peep Show when Jeremy tells Mark nobody knows what road signs mean.

    "It's lost knowledge, like how they built the pyramids"

    "Slaves built the pyramids Jeremy. Thousands and thousands of slaves".

    And given this is the author of 'Business Secrets Of The Pharoahs' we're talking about, I'm inclined to believe him. I miss that show.
  • MajorDSmytheMajorDSmythe "I tolerate this century, but I don't enjoy it."Moderator
    Posts: 13,894
    Slaves didn't build the Pyramids, Aliens did.
  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy My Secret Lair
    Posts: 13,384
    Slave Aliens ?
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
  • Posts: 19,339

    What a load of crap...people seriously need to get lives out there....pathetic.

  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,465
    barryt007 wrote: »

    What a load of crap...people seriously need to get lives out there....pathetic.

    One of the quotes in that article perfectly sums all of this up:

    “It’s a wonder some people manage to get through the day when they’re so easily offended."
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    That's where women tennis players keep their balls FFS.

    I suppose it's a little bit saucy in the grand British tradition of seaside postcards and page 3 but the country really is on its arse when we can't have a cheeky nod and a wink over such harmless stuff.

    I presume all Carry On films are banned these days too?

    These really are depressing times to live in.
  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy My Secret Lair
    Posts: 13,384

    The PC Dukes of Hazard.
  • Posts: 4,023
    Creasy47 wrote: »
    barryt007 wrote: »

    What a load of crap...people seriously need to get lives out there....pathetic.

    One of the quotes in that article perfectly sums all of this up:

    “It’s a wonder some people manage to get through the day when they’re so easily offended."

    What happens if we complain about them banning it.
  • Posts: 5,806
    Everyone had slaves, and everyone were slaves. Yet the focus stays on one particular relationship.

    Why don't the Egyptians and Chinese get castigated in the same way every white person who has ever lived does? Pretty sure the Pyramids and Great Wall of China were only built on the back of enslavement.

    Well, there's the fact that the Confederates pretty much betrayed their country by seceding from and attacking the North. Not to mention what followed after that (the KKK, the Jim Crow laws, the "Sundown Towns). But what do I know ?
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694


    I hope that we can look back in a decade or so and laugh at this current cancerous movement, having found a compromise between complaining about everything and understanding the nuance of rape and ass patting as being heavily delineated in severity and jokes about races not being punishable by death. In short, I hope common sense and a sense of humor return once again to our collective discourse that shuts out this hilariously misguided outrage that misses all the important issues like women's rights, poverty, child safety and hate crimes while we waste time ruining a white man's career for dressing like an indian and prohibiting the use of triggering terms like "crazy," "lame" and "gay."

    If the radical feminists, band-aid brigade PC complainers and professional outrage artists die out, crawl back into their holes or don't reproduce because nobody could stand being around them for even a second, then I think this development will be as valid a proof of evolution and survival of the fittest as the Galapagos finches. Surely these people are not the best of us, and surely they cannot sustain their hollow lives, wallowing in their own self-designed haplessness while forcing the rest of us to adopt their mewling dogma?
  • LeonardPineLeonardPine The Bar on the Beach
    Posts: 3,985


    I hope that we can look back in a decade or so and laugh at this current cancerous movement, having found a compromise between complaining about everything and understanding the nuance of rape and ass patting as being heavily delineated in severity and jokes about races not being punishable by death. In short, I hope common sense and a sense of humor return once again to our collective discourse that shuts out this hilariously misguided outrage that misses all the important issues like women's rights, poverty, child safety and hate crimes while we waste time ruining a white man's career for dressing like an indian and prohibiting the use of triggering terms like "crazy," "lame" and "gay."

    If the radical feminists, band-aid brigade PC complainers and professional outrage artists die out, crawl back into their holes or don't reproduce because nobody could stand being around them for even a second, then I think this development will be as valid a proof of evolution and survival of the fittest as the Galapagos finches. Surely these people are not the best of us, and surely they cannot sustain their hollow lives, wallowing in their own self-designed haplessness while forcing the rest of us to adopt their mewling dogma?

    Damn it's as if Bill Hicks has returned! Well said sir.
  • Posts: 7,653
    Bill Maher enjoyable as always.
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