MI6 Community Novel Bondathon - Reborn!

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  • MaxCasinoMaxCasino United States
    Posts: 4,110
    MaxCasino wrote: »
    Speaking as somebody who's worked in the comics industry, I think Bond is WAY hard to do in comics form, especially given the modern "decompressed" style that most current creators work with. Consider all the elements a proper Bond story requires: villain (with imaginative plot) and henchmen; lots of action (both in hand-to-hand combat and vehicle chases)...at least a few women, mostly of the exceptionally beautiful variety... at least one martini (shaken not stirred)....time with both M and Q....and Moneypenny. Now fit all that into 20 pages of no more than 6 panels per page. Pretty hard to do in a monthly comics format. Dynamite's Fleming adaptations are very good and deserve our support!

    That stated, would somebody please try to convince me that Moonraker the novel isn't one of Fleming's weaker offerings? I have a hard time with two aspects of this storyline: (1) The first third of the novel is....a very nice meal, followed by a card game. Not a punch is thrown, not a babe is bedded... yes, it introduces an interesting villain, but structurally, it just falls flat for me. And (2) why in the world does Bond go through most of a novel filled with Germans -- obviously ex-Nazis, less than a decade after these guys were actively trying to bomb London into rubble -- giving them all the benefit of several doubts, over and over again. C'mon, James, they're Nazis! Bad guys, case closed! But no, he keeps on trying to find reasons NOT to believe that they mean England harm. Again. It just doesn't work for me, and as compelling as much of this novel is, I just can't get behind it the way many of you can. What am I missing here?

    First, it's called character development, as we haven't really seen Bond's personal life in Casino Royale and Live And Let Die. Second, Bond knows he's in with the bad guys, it's called building the suspense. I hope this helps you.

    Have you READ the book? Bond is continually IGNORING the fact that they're bad guys. He's inventing reasons to believe that they're NOT bad guys. That's my objection!

    Ok calm down. Then it's just Ian Fleming building suspense.
  • Posts: 2,895
    shamanimal wrote: »
    I think because it's Blofeld, and it's his third villainous plot in the series, then I suppose you can overlook the, erm, daftness of it.

    It's the sort of scheme an insane supervillain would devise to keep busy during retirement. You can't keep blackmailing countries and waging germ warfare forever, you know. Someday a mad genius has to settle down with his beautiful interesting-looking girlfriend and think of more modest ways to cause pain and suffering.

  • Revelator wrote: »
    shamanimal wrote: »
    I think because it's Blofeld, and it's his third villainous plot in the series, then I suppose you can overlook the, erm, daftness of it.

    It's the sort of scheme an insane supervillain would devise to keep busy during retirement. You can't keep blackmailing countries and waging germ warfare forever, you know. Someday a mad genius has to settle down with his beautiful interesting-looking girlfriend and think of more modest ways to cause pain and suffering.

    Exactly. Just an occasional dead body to throw into the piranha pond. What could be a more comforting refuge in your declining years?
  • PropertyOfALadyPropertyOfALady Colders Federation CEO
    Posts: 3,675
    Wasn't Blades where Bond fought Graves?
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,468
    Wasn't Blades where Bond fought Graves?

    It is. That bit always stands out to me and makes me think of the DAD sword fight.
  • Wasn't Blades where Bond fought Graves?

    Another reason to think of Gustav Graves as Hugo Drax Lite...
  • PropertyOfALadyPropertyOfALady Colders Federation CEO
    Posts: 3,675
    Has anyone got the book James Bond's London by Gary Giblin? I have a copy and it's going for a bunch of money on Amazon, so if you have something about a London location in these and you want some information, I can look it up for you.
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    Posts: 5,978
    peter wrote: »
    Well, I never thought I'd quote myself, but my question never got a thought, so (only if you feel like it):
    So I have a question: The moment you notice something is not right with Vesper in the film is when he's recovering in the villa and Mr Mendel comes to put the money in Bond's account, but what's the equivalent of that moment in the book?
    Creasy47 wrote: »
    I'd have an answer for you, but it'd be something I'd have to actively keep an eye out for while reading it. Perhaps I'll go back and re-read it once I have the time and try and make a running list of all of the times that Vesper seems oddly suspicious (or at least worthy of questioning), could be interesting to see.

    I'm not on the readathon right now, but I've been reading your posts and loving them all. I'll quickly chime in, but please correct anything since the book isn't fresh in my mind at the moment;

    Bond begins to suspect something is wrong with Vesper after his rehabilitation. They're going off for a little R&R and, on the way to their destination, Vesper's convinced they're being followed.

    This trip, where, if memory serves, was supposed to bring them together, and Bond perhaps asking for her hand in marriage. Instead, this trip becomes a nightmare where her paranoia gets worse and worse (yes the man who she thought was following them on the road, was indeed staying at the same place as them. But, as Bond noted, seemingly showed no interest in them). This leads to a breakdown between the couple-- there are arguments over her mood and so on...

    And then, their last night together, she seemingly turns a corner. Gets drunk with Bond and they make love, I believe a couple of times-- one was full of passion, the other time full of tears.

    I think that's the long and short of it, @PropertyOfALady...
    MaxCasino wrote: »
    Speaking as somebody who's worked in the comics industry, I think Bond is WAY hard to do in comics form, especially given the modern "decompressed" style that most current creators work with. Consider all the elements a proper Bond story requires: villain (with imaginative plot) and henchmen; lots of action (both in hand-to-hand combat and vehicle chases)...at least a few women, mostly of the exceptionally beautiful variety... at least one martini (shaken not stirred)....time with both M and Q....and Moneypenny. Now fit all that into 20 pages of no more than 6 panels per page. Pretty hard to do in a monthly comics format. Dynamite's Fleming adaptations are very good and deserve our support!

    That stated, would somebody please try to convince me that Moonraker the novel isn't one of Fleming's weaker offerings? I have a hard time with two aspects of this storyline: (1) The first third of the novel is....a very nice meal, followed by a card game. Not a punch is thrown, not a babe is bedded... yes, it introduces an interesting villain, but structurally, it just falls flat for me. And (2) why in the world does Bond go through most of a novel filled with Germans -- obviously ex-Nazis, less than a decade after these guys were actively trying to bomb London into rubble -- giving them all the benefit of several doubts, over and over again. C'mon, James, they're Nazis! Bad guys, case closed! But no, he keeps on trying to find reasons NOT to believe that they mean England harm. Again. It just doesn't work for me, and as compelling as much of this novel is, I just can't get behind it the way many of you can. What am I missing here?

    First, it's called character development, as we haven't really seen Bond's personal life in Casino Royale and Live And Let Die. Second, Bond knows he's in with the bad guys, it's called building the suspense. I hope this helps you.

    Have you READ the book? Bond is continually IGNORING the fact that they're bad guys. He's inventing reasons to believe that they're NOT bad guys. That's my objection!

    It could happen.
  • Agent_99Agent_99 enjoys a spirited ride as much as the next girl
    Posts: 3,106
    That stated, would somebody please try to convince me that Moonraker the novel isn't one of Fleming's weaker offerings?

    It's my favourite, but if you dislike it from the heart, no amount of persuasion is going to talk you round. (For me, it's the setting and descriptions that put this one above the rest, especially the beach scene and the moonlit car chase from London.)

    Give Bond a break, though: it's very easy for the reader to spot what's going on before he does. We're already expecting a big villain, and it's clear to us that it will be Drax, while for Bond he's an established national hero.
  • DoctorNoDoctorNo USA-Maryland
    Posts: 754
    Birdleson wrote: »
    I don't know if any of you are familiar with the Youtube host @calvindyson (he's a member on here, but I don't think he's active)? He is currently reading through the novels (mostly for the first time) and posting his reviews (about every other week). He's worked his way up to FRWL. These are enjoyable, and at times thought provoking, mini-critiques and well worth your while checking out.

    Thanks for this... I've enjoyed watching his videos. His reactions mirrored my own when I first reread the series as an adult...CR good, LALD a step down. MR glorious. DAF a real misfire. Then the glorious one, two punch o'f FRWL and DN. He also ranks DN slightly above FRWL and just under MR. They're my top three books and if I had to rank, I would probably agree and go MR>DN>FRWL.
  • MaxCasinoMaxCasino United States
    Posts: 4,110
    I honestly think we should have added Anthony Horowitz's books Trigger Mortis and Forever and a Day part of the rereading of the Bond books. See if they truly fit in Fleming's timeline.
  • DoctorNoDoctorNo USA-Maryland
    edited January 2019 Posts: 754
    Yeah, not a GF fan either as far as top shelf. But love FYEO and TB so Fleming always rebounds. LALD always varies for me... some times really like, some times less impressed.
  • PropertyOfALadyPropertyOfALady Colders Federation CEO
    Posts: 3,675
    Birdleson wrote: »
    MaxCasino wrote: »
    I honestly think we should have added Anthony Horowitz's books Trigger Mortis and Forever and a Day part of the rereading of the Bond books. See if they truly fit in Fleming's timeline.

    Not me. Once was enough. Not impressed.

    If you could have your pick of a Bond author, who'd you pick?
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    edited January 2019 Posts: 17,803
    Birdleson wrote: »
    MaxCasino wrote: »
    I honestly think we should have added Anthony Horowitz's books Trigger Mortis and Forever and a Day part of the rereading of the Bond books. See if they truly fit in Fleming's timeline.

    Not me. Once was enough. Not impressed.

    If you could have your pick of a Bond author, who'd you pick?

    I know that this question was addressed to @Birdleson but I'd like to chime in with my thoughts too, if I may?

    I'm sure that Frederick Forsyth could have written a crackingly good James Bond novel if he'd have wanted to. Forsyth was actually asked over lunch by Peter Janson-Smith's son Patrick in 2001 if he'd be interested in writing a Bond continuation novel but he declined. I remember reading that on the sadly now defunct 007 Forever site that has been a great inspiration for my own blog.

    From what I've heard in interviews Mr Forsyth wasn't the biggest fan of Fleming or Bond though that didn't stop the Press hailing him as the true successor to Ian Fleming after the publication of his debut novel The Day of the Jackal in 1971.

    As for authors now, I don't know why Ken Follett was never asked to try his hand at a Bond novel. He is a Fleming and Bond fan and would most likely do an excellent job. Of course it could be that he was asked and we just don't know about it!

    I suppose that out of current authors Mick Herron might be a good fit for a contemporary-set Bond Continuation novel, although that would go against the grain of the current period-set Bond novels by Anthony Horowitz. One for the future, though, perhaps.
  • PropertyOfALadyPropertyOfALady Colders Federation CEO
    Posts: 3,675
    But I don't know if Bond knew about those submarines, did he? I'm confused.
  • PropertyOfALadyPropertyOfALady Colders Federation CEO
    Posts: 3,675
    Ooh! See if I ever talk to you again. (I joke. I will).
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    edited January 2019 Posts: 40,468
    Birdleson wrote: »
    I don’t know where everyone else currently is at, but I’m barely a few chapters s into DAF. One of the weaker entries, which is relative (they’re all frickin’ great), but some immortal moments.

    As to the finale of MR, this occurred to me the last few tones I read it; Dors everyone realize that when Bond and Gala decided not to blow up the Moonraker rocket on-site, sacrificing themselves in the process, they bought their lives by eventually killing several hundred innocents and irradiating a large area of ocean instead? I would think that would be unacceptable to Bond and M.

    You would think, but I always surmise some death was a big possibility and they figure the death of a few hundred (still quite the tragedy, though) is better than the loss of millions and millions. However, doesn't Bond mention something about the radiation during the post mission briefing to M and he says it's not a big concern for some reason? Think it might've been something to do with how the rocket landed or detonated or what have you.

    And yes, I'm still not even halfway through DAF, been slacking this past week because I've been prioritizing films over this.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,468
    Birdleson wrote: »
    Hope that you stay the course until the end this time @Creasy47 !

    I shall! I'd hate to duck out at nearly the same time as I did last time, I want to see it through to the end.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,468
    Agreed. It's definitely not without its moments, but it is a bit lesser in quality after putting down MR.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,468
    Birdleson wrote: »
    The climax with the train and the finale on the ship are both excellent.

    Those are the highlights for me, along with Bond and Leiter getting to spend some time together and the sulphur/mud baths sequence.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,468
    Birdleson wrote: »
    Definitely. The screen never came close to catching Fleming’s Bond/Felix vibe.

    I'm not sure why, either - I'd say it came a lot closer in the earlier films, and particularly NSNA, than Craig's era has, but I really do want to see a proper, wholehearted friendship between the two in the films someday.
  • MaxCasinoMaxCasino United States
    Posts: 4,110
    Creasy47 wrote: »
    Birdleson wrote: »
    Definitely. The screen never came close to catching Fleming’s Bond/Felix vibe.

    I'm not sure why, either - I'd say it came a lot closer in the earlier films, and particularly NSNA, than Craig's era has, but I really do want to see a proper, wholehearted friendship between the two in the films someday.

    Agreed, 100%. If Skyfall could work well with M, maybe something along the storyline of Dynamite Comic's Felix Leiter arc. Maybe throw in Tiger Tanaka for fun.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,468
    I feel like I'll forever be all talk, no action on those Folio editions. Hopefully I cave eventually, they really are nice.
  • PropertyOfALadyPropertyOfALady Colders Federation CEO
    Posts: 3,675
    I did. This Christmas. And I totally forgot it was on my list.
  • PropertyOfALadyPropertyOfALady Colders Federation CEO
    Posts: 3,675
    CR
    DAF
    DN
    FRWL
    MR
    GF

    I only have CR.
  • Posts: 4,024
    The Folio artwork is superb, and also makes for a beautiful smartphone wallpaper.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,468
    Is there ever a "typical" time the Folio edition books go on sale? I see them for $63 most of the time, sans tax, but I could've swore I checked late last year and it was around $50 per title.

    Also, how's DAF coming along (for those who haven't finished), and for those who are up to FRWL, how's it going for you? I'm always intrigued by the length it takes to get to James Bond himself, and that we spend several chapters going over Grant, his backstory, the higher-ups in SMERSH, what their next plan is, etc. It's refreshing.
  • edited January 2019 Posts: 2,895
    On a Bond book-related note, a relatively new documentary on Fleming has appeared: My Name is Fleming, Ian Fleming. As far as I can tell the only available English version is a streaming copy on Amazon.

    @Some_Kind_Of_Hero and I watched it last week and can report it was a worthwhile though slightly jumpy affair. The program features interviews with Fleming's stepdaughter Fionn, his nieces (the daughters of his brother Peter), Nicholas Rankin (author of Ian Fleming's Commandos), and Simon Winder (The Man Who Saved Britain). Moonraker fans will be happy to see a visit to the book's Dover locations.

    The program was actually made for German TV in 2015, and originally had German narration. The English version only appeared last year. The German origins of program are also evident in the footage of Bond-themed parties in Kitzbühel ("really tacky" was Hero's reaction) and an interview with the German translators of the Bond books. Overall, the program is a nice supplement to Ian Fleming - 007’s Creator, the documentary included on The Living Daylights special edition.
  • PropertyOfALadyPropertyOfALady Colders Federation CEO
    Posts: 3,675
    I wouldn't know.Sorry. Anyway, James doesn't appear in FRWL until Part II: The Execution. That's 36 percent of the way through!
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,468
    Birdleson wrote: »
    By the way, I'm flying to NY on Saturday and plan on getting through DAF, FRWL and DN on the flights.

    That's some heavy reading there. I should be on DN by then, at least.
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