Dr. No versus the field: Moonraker

edited November 28 in Bond Movies Posts: 3,208
As I'm sure most of you are aware, we recently finished "Spectre vs. the field," where the most recent Bond was matched up against the previous 23, category by category. It encountered mixed results, but a good time was had by all (except perhaps for a few slapfights in the Moore years). Someone, I'm not sure who, suggested that we turn things around and match Dr. No up against the field. It seemed as good an idea as any, so we shall begin with Dr. No against the second Bond ever, From Russia With Love.

The PTS category has been removed from this game, on account of Dr. No not having a pre-title sequence.

Title Track: DN (I always thought of "Three Blind Mice" as theme song, but in deference to the consensus I'll use the Bond theme)
Title Credits: FRWL
Main Villain: DN (assuming it's Rosa Klebb)
Main Bond Girl: DN
Henchman: FRWL (assuming it's Red Grant)
Overall Plot: FRWL (DN's will pick up many wins, but FRWL might have the strongest of them all)
Dialogue: DN (mostly for the first ever "Bond...James Bond."
Score: FRWL
Settings: FRWL
Action: FRWL
Humour: FRWL
Cinematography: FRWL
Benign Bizarre: DN (for Dr. No's lair, but it's close)
Suspense: FRWL (the train scene!)
Minor Characters: FRWL
Glamour: FRWL
Bond Performance: FRWL

12-5 to FRWL! That's a very big gap for the two movies at #2 and #7 in my Bond rankings, but FRWL picked up a bunch of categories very narrowly, so I suppose it makes sense. Shall we see your scores?
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Comments

  • Posts: 173
    PTS: Unfair and you know it
    Title Track: DN
    Title Credits: DN
    Main Villain: DN
    Main Bond Girl: DN
    Henchman: FRWL
    Overall Plot: DN
    Dialogue: DN
    Score: DN
    Settings: DN
    Action: FRWL
    Humour: DN
    Cinematography: DN
    Benign Bizarre: DN
    Suspense: FRWL
    Minor Characters: DN
    Glamour: DN
    Bond Performance: DN
  • Posts: 3,208
    Had a bit of a brain fart on the PTS category. I'm accustomed to leaving it in for DN, since it's just one match, but then I remembered that in fact DN will be in all these contests. Will edit the initial post.
  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe Back from the dead.
    edited May 29 Posts: 5,175
    Title Track: FRWL
    Title Credits: FRWL
    Main Villain: DN
    Main Bond Girl: DN
    Henchman: FRWL
    Overall Plot: DN
    Dialogue: DN
    Score: FRWL
    Settings: DN
    Action: FRWL
    Humour: DN
    Cinematography: DN
    Benign Bizarre: ????
    Suspense: FRWL
    Minor Characters: DN
    Glamour: DN
    Bond Performance: DN

    Dr No is better in all the structure and story ways, and FRWL is better in the cosmetic ways.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Vampire State Building
    Posts: 23,431

    Title Track: DN
    Title Credits: DN
    Main Villain: DN
    Main Bond Girl: FRWL
    Henchman: FRWL
    Overall Plot: FRWL
    Dialogue: FRWL
    Score: FRWL
    Settings: FRWL
    Action: FRWL
    Humour: FRWL
    Cinematography: DN
    Benign Bizarre: FRWL
    Suspense: FRWL
    Minor Characters: FRWL
    Glamour: FRWL
    Bond Performance: DN

    12-5 for FRWL
  • BirdlesonBirdleson San Jose, CA
    Posts: 19,313
    I really don't know how this will go.


    Title Track: DN (If it's the James Bond Theme)
    Title Credits: DN
    Main Villain: DN
    Main Bond Girl: DN (best in the franchise)
    Henchman: FRWL
    Overall Plot: FRWL
    Dialogue: FRWL
    Score: FRWL
    Settings: DN
    Action: FRWL
    Humour: FRWL
    Cinematography: DN
    Benign Bizarre: DN
    Suspense: FRWL
    Minor Characters: FRWL (barely)
    Glamour: FRWL
    Bond Performance: DN

    9-8 for FRWL, so close.

  • Major_BoothroydMajor_Boothroyd Republic of Isthmus
    edited May 30 Posts: 1,412
    Title Track: FRWL (Because it incorporates the Bond theme AND that killer opening sting)

    Title Credits: FRWL (Both iconic but that belly dancing projection coupled with the music and shimmering gold is mesmerizing.)

    Main Villain: DN (I love the villains in FRWL but they're split across Blofeld, Klebb and Kronsteen - and the way they build up Dr No is brilliant.)

    Main Bond Girl: FRWL (Two of my favourites - but I like Bianchi's playful chemistry with Connery, she is an important element to the plot and although she spends a disturbing amount of time unconscious she makes up for it with her killing of Klebb. She also has bonus points for being involved in a memorable scene that doesn't involve 007 - her first meeting with Klebb. Honey starts off so good - but everything from being captured in the swamp onwards means she is not only basically silent but also fairly useless.)

    Henchman: FRWL (Red Grant = best henchman in the series)

    Overall Plot: FRWL (My favourite plot in the series. Something I love about the novel too. The way it unfolds is expertly handled. Proper cold war espionage style.)

    Dialogue: FRWL (So much wonderful dialogue between all the characters - Especially Bond with Grant, Kerim and Tatiana.)

    Score: FRWL Barry is on great form here - Spectre Island, Bond is Back and of course the 007 theme.

    Settings: DN (I love, love DN's Jamaica setting. Specifically how it is captured in this film. Iconic.)

    Action: FRWL (For the Red Grant fight alone.)

    Humour: FRWL (Kerim Bey and Bond's exchanges, Bond and Tatiana talking at 'cross purposes', Bond, M and Moneypenny's dialogue. It's all wonderful stuff.)

    Cinematography: DN (I love the way Jamaica is presented.)

    Benign Bizarre: DN (both are wonderfully bizarre - but DN takes it this time - the 'dragon', the room where Dent gets the spider, DN checking out Bond and Honey as they sleep, plus the sisters lily and rose in the mink lined prison. It's all very strange.)

    Suspense: FRWL Both are so strong on suspense. It's an element that endears me to both of these films - the mystery and suspense across the narrative in both of them makes them endlessly rewatchable.

    Minor Characters: FRWL - (Two of the greatest allies in the series - Quarrel and Kerim Bey but Kerim Bey is my favourite ally of the entire series. Marvellous! Marvellous...)

    Glamour: FRWL The casino in DN informed all my initial ideas of glamour as a kid. But FRWL has an exotic and intoxicating glamour of travel, mystery, style. It's captivating.

    Bond Performance: DN Both are impossibly good performances. I'll give it to DN for setting the bar.

    FRWL = 12
    DN = 5

    Two of my favourite films of all time - FRWL is my favourite though, nearly every category is close - DN would be around my sixth favourite Bond film so there is no shame in dropping that many rounds against the absolute pinnacle of the series for me. Both DN and FRWL are wonderful, charming, captivating films.
  • GoldenGunGoldenGun Station B, Belgium
    Posts: 2,443
    Title Track: FRWL
    Title Credits: DN
    Main Villain: FRWL
    Main Bond Girl: FRWL
    Henchman: FRWL
    Overall Plot: FRWL
    Dialogue: FRWL
    Score: FRWL
    Settings: FRWL
    Action: FRWL
    Humour: FRWL
    Cinematography: FRWL
    Benign Bizarre: DN
    Suspense: FRWL
    Minor Characters: FRWL
    Glamour: FRWL
    Bond Performance: FRWL

    15-2 to FRWL if I count correctly.
  • Posts: 1,527
    Title Track: FRWL (by default. I don't think this is a fair category)
    Title Credits: FRWL
    Main Villain: DN (klebb is the main Villain)
    Main Bond Girl: FRWL
    Henchman: FRWL
    Overall Plot: FRWL
    Dialogue: FRWL
    Score: FRWL
    Settings: FRWL
    Action: FRWL
    Humour: FRWL
    Cinematography: FRWL
    Benign Bizarre: DN
    Suspense: FRWL
    Minor Characters: FRWL
    Glamour: FRWL
    Bond Performance: DN

    14-3 to FRWLL

  • edited May 30 Posts: 6,432
    PTS: DN (I am counting the Strangways scene as the PTS)
    Title Track: FRWL
    Title Credits: DN
    Main Villain: FRWL
    Main Bond Girl: FRWL
    Henchman: FRWL
    Overall Plot: FRWL
    Dialogue: DN
    Score: FRWL
    Settings: FRWL
    Action: FRWL
    Humour: FRWL
    Cinematography: FRWL
    Benign Bizarre: DN
    Suspense: FRWL
    Minor Characters: FRWL
    Glamour: FRWL
    Bond Performance: FRWL

    DN: 4
    FRWL: 14

    This really is not a reflection on DN, as the first two Bond films in the series are two of the best.
  • BondAficionadoBondAficionado Former IMDBer
    Posts: 847
    Title Track: FRWL
    Title Credits: DN
    Main Villain: DN
    Main Bond Girl: FRWL (for Bianchi)
    Henchman: FRWL
    Overall Plot: FRWL
    Dialogue: FRWL
    Score: FRWL
    Settings: DN
    Action: FRWL
    Humour: FRWL
    Cinematography: DN
    Benign Bizarre: DN
    Suspense: FRWL
    Minor Characters: FRWL
    Glamour: FRWL
    Bond Performance: FRWL

    Dr.No: 5
    FRWL: 12
  • Posts: 2,397
    Title Track: FRWL
    Title Credits: FRWL
    Main Villain: FRWL
    Main Bond Girl: FRWL
    Henchman: FRWL
    Overall Plot: FRWL
    Dialogue: FRWL
    Score: FRWL
    Settings: DN
    Action: FRWL
    Humour: FRWL
    Cinematography: DN
    Benign Bizarre: DN
    Suspense: FRWL
    Minor Characters: FRWL
    Glamour: FRWL
    Bond Performance: FRWL

    Dr.No: 3
    FRWL: 15
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 14,699

    Title Track: DN
    Title Credits: DN
    Main Villain: DN
    Main Bond Girl: DN
    Henchman: FRWL
    Overall Plot: DN
    Dialogue: FRWL
    Score: FRWL
    Settings: FRWL
    Action: FRWL
    Humour: FRWL
    Cinematography: DN
    Benign Bizarre: DN
    Suspense: FRWL
    Minor Characters: FRWL
    Glamour: FRWL
    Bond Performance: DN

    9-8 for FRWL, close for me as well.



  • MooseWithFleasMooseWithFleas Philadelphia
    Posts: 1,801
    Title Track: FRWL - Those first few notes get me so pumped every time.
    Title Credits: FRWL - Genius with the credits over the dancing girls. Binder will always be a legend, but Brownjohn really took a huge leap from DN. The credits still seem as clear and vivid as something you would see today.
    Main Villain: FRWL - Klebb is brilliant and I've always found Dr. No a little overrated.
    Main Bond Girl: FRWL - Tatiana is a more fleshed out character and has a nice little arc, as oppose to Honey who just kind of appears 2/3 through the film.
    Henchman: FRWL - Red Grant is top 3, Dent doesn't crack my top 10.
    Overall Plot: FRWL - The best of Fleming's plots and it's used fantastically
    Dialogue: DN - By a small margin
    Score: FRWL - Tough one... I love 'Jump Up' for DN and 007 Theme for FRWL; however, there are some really 50s sounding cues (smashing of spider, the end with Leiter appearing on boat)
    Settings: DN - Jamaica really sets the tone for the whole series and it's tradition of showing exotic locations
    Action: FRWL
    Humour: FRWL - Kerim Bey helps put FRWL ahead
    Cinematography: FRWL - Ted Moore takes what he did in DN and improves on it here in FRWL
    Benign Bizarre: DN - Dragons!
    Suspense: DN - The tense stakeout scene ad Miss Taro's, playing solitaire while waiting for Dent is just fantastic.
    Minor Characters: FRWL - Armendariz alone is enough
    Glamour: DN - First scene nails it.
    Bond Performance: DN - Both very similar, but I'll give slight nod to DN

    11-6 FRWL. Probably a bit closer in my rankings (FRWL is 5 and DN is in the 9-10 range), but by the categories, there is more separation.


    Question for SotS: Should we be using the James Bond theme or Three Blind Mice for title track? I went with Three Blind Mice, because it seems like James Bond theme isn't really fair. That being said, if it's JB theme, then most people are going to give it a 23-0 victory and if it's TBM it's likely to take a 0-23 beating. There are some themes I would choose over JB theme, but I'm guessing I'm in the minority there.

    Just wanted to get clarification from game host so I know how to vote. Thanks as always @Soundofthesinners !
  • Posts: 852
    Title Track: DN
    Title Credits: FRWL
    Main Villain: DN
    Main Bond Girl: FRWL
    Henchman: FRWL
    Overall Plot: FRWL
    Dialogue: FRWL
    Score: FRWL
    Settings: FRWL
    Action: FRWL
    Humour: FRWL
    Cinematography: FRWL
    Benign Bizarre: DN
    Suspense: FRWL
    Minor Characters: FRWL
    Glamour: FRWL
    Bond Performance: DN

    DN: 4
    FRWL: 13
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Vampire State Building
    Posts: 23,431
    DN, there is no shame in losing to FRWL.
  • Posts: 2,397


    Question for SotS: Should we be using the James Bond theme or Three Blind Mice for title track? I went with Three Blind Mice, because it seems like James Bond theme isn't really fair. That being said, if it's JB theme, then most people are going to give it a 23-0 victory and if it's TBM it's likely to take a 0-23 beating. There are some themes I would choose over JB theme, but I'm guessing I'm in the minority there.

    Just wanted to get clarification from game host so I know how to vote. Thanks as always @Soundofthesinners !

    What was the clarification? Surely the answer is neither. It has to be the medley they actually used in the movie doesn't it?
  • Posts: 3,208
    Suppose it's about time to ask for final entries.
  • edited June 8 Posts: 348
    Title Track: DN
    Title Credits: FRWL
    Main Villain: DN
    Main Bond Girl: Tie
    Henchman: FRWL
    Overall Plot: FRWL
    Dialogue: FRWL (I believe the Bond/Grant confrontation on the train is enough to give this to FRWL alone.)
    Score: FRWL
    Settings: DN
    Action: FRWL
    Humour: DN
    Cinematography: Tie
    Benign Bizarre: DN
    Suspense: FRWL
    Minor Characters: FRWL
    Glamour: DN
    Bond Performance: Tie (Connery is at his absolute best in his first two outings.)

    DN: 6
    FRWL: 8
    Tie: 3

    ...doesn't surprise me. FRWL is my favorite and DN ranks almost as high - two of the series best films.
  • Posts: 8,952
    Title Track: DN
    Title Credits: FRWL
    Main Villain: DN
    Main Bond Girl: DN
    Henchman: DN
    Overall Plot: DN
    Dialogue: DN
    Score: FRWL
    Settings: DN
    Action: FRWL
    Humour: DN
    Cinematography: DN
    Benign Bizarre: DN
    Suspense: DN
    Minor Characters: FRWL
    Glamour: DN
    Bond Performance: DN

    DN: 13
    FRWL: 4

    Surprised at the clear outcome. But then DN belongs to my holy 6 Bond films.
  • barryt007barryt007 Throwing Kara 'brain dead' Milovy off the top of a Ferris Wheel in Vienna
    Posts: 11,940
    Title Track: FRWL
    Title Credits: FRWL
    Main Villain: DN
    Main Bond Girl: FRWL
    Henchman: FRWL
    Overall Plot: FRWL
    Dialogue: FRWL
    Score: FRWL
    Settings: FRWL
    Action: FRWL
    Humour: FRWL
    Cinematography: DN
    Benign Bizarre: FRWL
    Suspense: FRWL
    Minor Characters: FRWL
    Glamour: FRWL
    Bond Performance: FRWL

    DN : 2
    FRWL : 15


    That's about right...FRWL is always bouncing between #1-#3 on my list,and it's never been any lower.
  • Posts: 2,459
    Title Track: FRWL
    Title Credits: DN (so early 60s it's scary)
    Main Villain: DN
    Main Bond Girl: DN
    Henchman: FRWL
    Overall Plot: DN (I like its clarity)
    Dialogue: FRWL
    Score: FRWL
    Settings: FRWL
    Action: FRWL
    Humour: FRWL
    Cinematography: DN
    Benign Bizarre: DN
    Suspense: FRWL
    Minor Characters: FRWL
    Glamour: FRWL
    Bond Performance: DN

    DN : 7
    FRWL : 10

    About as I would have expected.
  • Posts: 3,441
    Title Track: DN
    Title Credits: DN
    Main Villain: DN
    Main Bond Girl: DN
    Henchman: FRWL
    Overall Plot: FRWL
    Dialogue: FRWL (just love the dialogue between Connery and Bey)
    Score: FRWL
    Settings: FRWL (Istanbul - the perfect location for a spy thriller!)
    Action: FRWL
    Humour: DN ("Make sure he doesn't get away" has always been one of my fav lines)
    Cinematography: DN
    Benign Bizarre: DN
    Suspense: FRWL
    Minor Characters: FRWL
    Glamour: FRWL
    Bond Performance: FRWL

    DN -7
    FRWL - 10

    There is no shame in losing to the sublime From Russia With Love.
  • Posts: 8,952
    @Robertson @Mendes4Lyfe and I are the only ones here that seem to genuinely love DN.
    @Birdleson being close to let win DN has to be mentioned.

    Shame so many let FRWL win against DN in a landslide.
  • Posts: 2,906
    My #3 and #4

    Title Track: DN
    Title Credits: FRWL
    Main Villain: DN
    Main Bond Girl: DN
    Henchman: FRWL
    Overall Plot: FRWL
    Dialogue: DN (both are great though)
    Score: FRWL
    Settings: FRWL
    Action: FRWL
    Humour: DN
    Cinematography: DN
    Benign Bizarre: DN
    Suspense: FRWL
    Minor Characters: FRWL
    Glamour: FRWL
    Bond Performance: DN

    FRWL = 9
    DN = 8
  • MansfieldMansfield Where the hell have you been?
    edited June 9 Posts: 1,234
    Margin out of 100: (DN-FRWL)

    Title Track: From Russia With Love (25-75)
    A very elegant theme that blends cohesively with the credits

    Title Credits: From Russia With Love (10-90)
    The first credits with dancing girls and done with excellent execution to accentuate the credits.

    Main Villain: Dr. No (80-20)
    Dr. No stands out as a definitive villain. From Russia With Love suffers from a lack of a single villainous figure.

    Main Bond Girl: Dr. No (60-40)
    Honey Rider is the most iconic Bond girl, but she does not appear until the second half. As much as I like Tatiana, she does not have as great of an impact despite having a larger role.

    Henchman: From Russia With Love (0-100)
    Red Grant is the most defined henchman with his mission being to dispose of Bond.

    Overall Plot: From Russia With Love (30-70)
    While Dr. No has a sound plot, From Russia With Love cleverly pulls off a more audacious plot worthy of the big screen persona of Bond.

    Dialogue: Dr. No (70-30)
    In the most dramatic moments, the dialogue in Dr. No is sensational.

    Score: From Russia With Love (5-95)
    Barry brings the magic of Bond alive with every track being superior to Dr. No outside of the Bond theme.

    Settings: Dr. No (80-20)
    Bond is most in his element in the Jamaica.

    Action: From Russia With Love (20-80)
    Both in scope and execution, the action in From Russia With Love is grand.

    Humor: From Russia With Love (30-70)
    The humor in From Russia With Love extends beyond the casual one-liners.

    Cinematography: Dr. No (60-40)
    From Russia With Love was shot more ambitiously and it lost some of the charm and forethought that so many scenes have in Dr. No.

    Benign Bizarre: Dr. No (80-20)
    We'll give this one to the tarantula.

    Suspense: From Russia With Love (40-60)
    I love how they cloak Dr. No (and that will show in subsequent rounds), but From Russia With Love carries suspense in spades.

    Minor Characters: From Russia With Love (25-75)
    Introductions of Q and Blofeld (unnamed) with Kerim make From Russia With Love stand out in minor characters.

    Glamor: From Russia With Love (40-60)
    Bond wears the suit wire to wire in some of the most defining settings, most notably the train. In general, Connery is more fluent in the role and the confidence plays out on screen.

    Bond Performance: Dr. No (55-45)
    Connery is sensational in both. I'll pay homage to his original, raw performance that launched Bond.


    Dr. No (7) (42-58) (10) From Russia With Love
  • JamesBondKenyaJamesBondKenya God I love Quantum of Solace
    Posts: 1,280

    Title Track: FRWL obviously. Bond theme is great until it becomes random Jamaican screaming

    Title Credits: FRWL best in the series
    Main Villain: DN, I'm not even sure who he main villain is in FRWL
    Main Bond Girl: FRWL
    Henchman: FRWL has some of the best in the series
    Overall Plot: FRWL the best plot in the series
    Dialogue: DN - this one is hard to decide
    Score: FRWL
    Settings: FRWL- more and better locations
    Action: FRWL- obviously
    Humour: FRWL
    Cinematography: FRWL
    Benign Bizarre: FRWL
    Suspense: FRWL
    Minor Characters: FRWL
    Glamour: FRWL
    Bond Performance: FRWL

    FRWL = 15
    DN = 2
  • MansfieldMansfield Where the hell have you been?
    Posts: 1,234
    I'm not even sure who he main villain is in FRWL
    Rosa Klebb is the intended main villain, but she takes a backseat to protect her defection.
  • Major_BoothroydMajor_Boothroyd Republic of Isthmus
    Posts: 1,412
    @Robertson @Mendes4Lyfe and I are the only ones here that seem to genuinely love DN.
    @Birdleson being close to let win DN has to be mentioned.

    Shame so many let FRWL win against DN in a landslide.

    I take umbrage with this statement. I genuinely love DN. Just because I genuinely love FRWL slightly more doesn't decrease my love for DN. And there is no shame in FRWL beating DN. FRWL is my favourite Bond film of all time and DN close behind.

  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    edited June 10 Posts: 14,699
    @Robertson @Mendes4Lyfe and I are the only ones here that seem to genuinely love DN.
    @Birdleson being close to let win DN has to be mentioned.

    Shame so many let FRWL win against DN in a landslide.

    I take umbrage with this statement. I genuinely love DN. Just because I genuinely love FRWL slightly more doesn't decrease my love for DN. And there is no shame in FRWL beating DN.

    +1!
  • Posts: 4,319
    I don't know if I'll join everyone in stacking DN up against the rest of the series, but for the record, for what it's worth, I significantly prefer DN to FRWL.
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