Was SPECTRE a disappointment?

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Comments

  • edited April 2020 Posts: 1,680
    Spectre was just a mainstream entry to appeal to the masses. Merely a check the boxes entry.

    The problem is they followed up with nothing for 5 years.

    This is why Spectre gets a bit more hate than it deserves. It’s the latest entry and has been so for too long
  • edited April 2020 Posts: 4,400
    Spectre had the ingredients though.....just get the feeling that it never made the most of them. The film is probably due a re-watch from everyone prior to NTTD.

    Gotta appreciate quite how stunning the DB10 was....it's a work of art and the bloke who designed it is basically a child.



    Even Jay Leno reviewed it.....


    It's so photogenic. It looks like a bullet or a shark:

    spectre-369.png
    spectre-682.png

    Also, found this cool photo of Hinx. Still feels like a missed opportunity of a character.
    EVYU5mKU4AAi-E8?format=jpg&name=medium
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,372
    SP deserves all the hate it gets, in my opinion. A completely forgettable and at times cringe entry with a bloated $300 million + budget. I'll never understand how they dropped the ball so hard.
  • matt_umatt_u better known as Mr. Roark
    edited April 2020 Posts: 4,343
    SP was disappointing in many ways, especially because it could've been great but it ended up being just good, sometimes very very good, despite lot of evident problems. Greatness and flaws co-exist in quite a surprising way in this film. From this standpoint SP looks like a compendium of the entire franchise, funnily.
  • NickTwentyTwoNickTwentyTwo Vancouver, BC, Canada
    Posts: 7,518
    matt_u wrote: »
    SP was disappointing in many ways, especially because it could've been great but it ended up being just good, sometimes very very good, despite lot of evident problems. Greatness and flaws co-exist in quite a surprising way.

    I'd agree with this, but in the movie there are moments sprinkled in with the good that are just plainly bad. Hamfisting all the previous Bond villains (and Patrice... just so they had a face for every arm) onto the ring/Spectre logo on the computer, the Blofeld lair escape as mentioned above.

    I would say, it could have been great but it ended up being just good, sometimes very good, as well as at times terrible. I say this as a person who at the end of the day really enjoys Spectre.
  • GadgetManGadgetMan Lagos, Nigeria
    Posts: 4,247
    Apart from the 'Brother' thing....I think if Blofeld held Bond Prisoner much longer & they had the usual witty Bond & Villian Charade, then the Movie would have been so much better with Bond involved in a Harrowing & Complex Escape Scene from the Lair. The finale just comes too quick, coz Bond didn't spend an entertaining chunk of time in Blofeld's Lair....even a Brainwashed Madeleine by Blofeld in the Lair, would have added some Dynamism to the film.
  • matt_umatt_u better known as Mr. Roark
    Posts: 4,343
    matt_u wrote: »
    SP was disappointing in many ways, especially because it could've been great but it ended up being just good, sometimes very very good, despite lot of evident problems. Greatness and flaws co-exist in quite a surprising way.

    I'd agree with this, but in the movie there are moments sprinkled in with the good that are just plainly bad. Hamfisting all the previous Bond villains (and Patrice... just so they had a face for every arm) onto the ring/Spectre logo on the computer, the Blofeld lair escape as mentioned above.

    I would say, it could have been great but it ended up being just good, sometimes very good, as well as at times terrible. I say this as a person who at the end of the day really enjoys Spectre.

    Yep, I totally agree.
  • NickTwentyTwoNickTwentyTwo Vancouver, BC, Canada
    edited April 2020 Posts: 7,518
    GadgetMan wrote: »
    Apart from the 'Brother' thing....I think if Blofeld held Bond Prisoner much longer & they had the usual witty Bond & Villian Charade, then the Movie would have been so much better with Bond involved in a Harrowing & Complex Escape Scene from the Lair. The finale just comes too quick, coz Bond didn't spend an entertaining chunk of time in Blofeld's Lair....even a Brainwashed Madeleine by Blofeld in the Lair, would have added some Dynamism to the film.

    100%. They should have really flushed out a harrowing escape for Bond requiring Madeleine's help, have them escape on the chopper while the lair explodes. They should also have put a scene in there making it more clear someone activated a self-destruct on the lair. Cut out all the London business afterwards. I'd have loved if then they did a stinger showing some Spectre henchmen go back into the burning facility to retrieve Blofeld, who survived, and take him away.
  • GadgetManGadgetMan Lagos, Nigeria
    Posts: 4,247
    GadgetMan wrote: »
    Apart from the 'Brother' thing....I think if Blofeld held Bond Prisoner much longer & they had the usual witty Bond & Villian Charade, then the Movie would have been so much better with Bond involved in a Harrowing & Complex Escape Scene from the Lair. The finale just comes too quick, coz Bond didn't spend an entertaining chunk of time in Blofeld's Lair....even a Brainwashed Madeleine by Blofeld in the Lair, would have added some Dynamism to the film.

    100%. They should have really flushed out a harrowing escape for Bond requiring Madeleine's help, have them escape on the chopper while the lair explodes. They should also have put a scene in there making it more clear someone activated a self-destruct on the lair. Cut out all the London business afterwards. I'd have loved if then they did a stinger showing some Spectre henchmen go back into the burning facility to retrieve Blofeld, who survived, and take him away.

    Indeed...Sadly, with every review the missed opportunity in SP shows.
  • Posts: 4,599
    I think, for many (plus the financers) , SF indicated that Mendes really understood whati it took to make a good Bond movie. To have the same director back (with the same cast etc), people had the right to have high expectations so for many, including myself, the contrast adds to the level of disappointment. If you watched both without knowing, could you guess they had the same director?
  • MalloryMallory Do mosquitoes have friends?
    Posts: 2,036
    Ultimately yes, it was clear, and from reading of the movie’s development in Some Kind of Hero, Logan and Mendes had no real f****** clue what they wanted to do with it from the start and sort of bumbled into half a script which Purvis and Wade had limited time to unf***.

    As everyone says, the elements are all there, and its supremely frustrating that, with two or three decent script revisions, it couldve been something great.
  • NickTwentyTwoNickTwentyTwo Vancouver, BC, Canada
    Posts: 7,518
    GadgetMan wrote: »
    GadgetMan wrote: »
    Apart from the 'Brother' thing....I think if Blofeld held Bond Prisoner much longer & they had the usual witty Bond & Villian Charade, then the Movie would have been so much better with Bond involved in a Harrowing & Complex Escape Scene from the Lair. The finale just comes too quick, coz Bond didn't spend an entertaining chunk of time in Blofeld's Lair....even a Brainwashed Madeleine by Blofeld in the Lair, would have added some Dynamism to the film.

    100%. They should have really flushed out a harrowing escape for Bond requiring Madeleine's help, have them escape on the chopper while the lair explodes. They should also have put a scene in there making it more clear someone activated a self-destruct on the lair. Cut out all the London business afterwards. I'd have loved if then they did a stinger showing some Spectre henchmen go back into the burning facility to retrieve Blofeld, who survived, and take him away.

    Indeed...Sadly, with every review the missed opportunity in SP shows.

    Very true, but everything in Rome up to but not including the car chase, L’American, the train, and Blofeld’s lair up to but not including the escape keep me coming back.
  • GadgetManGadgetMan Lagos, Nigeria
    Posts: 4,247
    GadgetMan wrote: »
    GadgetMan wrote: »
    Apart from the 'Brother' thing....I think if Blofeld held Bond Prisoner much longer & they had the usual witty Bond & Villian Charade, then the Movie would have been so much better with Bond involved in a Harrowing & Complex Escape Scene from the Lair. The finale just comes too quick, coz Bond didn't spend an entertaining chunk of time in Blofeld's Lair....even a Brainwashed Madeleine by Blofeld in the Lair, would have added some Dynamism to the film.

    100%. They should have really flushed out a harrowing escape for Bond requiring Madeleine's help, have them escape on the chopper while the lair explodes. They should also have put a scene in there making it more clear someone activated a self-destruct on the lair. Cut out all the London business afterwards. I'd have loved if then they did a stinger showing some Spectre henchmen go back into the burning facility to retrieve Blofeld, who survived, and take him away.

    Indeed...Sadly, with every review the missed opportunity in SP shows.

    Very true, but everything in Rome up to but not including the car chase, L’American, the train, and Blofeld’s lair up to but not including the escape keep me coming back.

    Yeah, true....I think that's why the Bond Franchise is unique....even the critically unsuccessful ones still have Something Special.
  • matt_umatt_u better known as Mr. Roark
    Posts: 4,343
    GadgetMan wrote: »
    GadgetMan wrote: »
    GadgetMan wrote: »
    Apart from the 'Brother' thing....I think if Blofeld held Bond Prisoner much longer & they had the usual witty Bond & Villian Charade, then the Movie would have been so much better with Bond involved in a Harrowing & Complex Escape Scene from the Lair. The finale just comes too quick, coz Bond didn't spend an entertaining chunk of time in Blofeld's Lair....even a Brainwashed Madeleine by Blofeld in the Lair, would have added some Dynamism to the film.

    100%. They should have really flushed out a harrowing escape for Bond requiring Madeleine's help, have them escape on the chopper while the lair explodes. They should also have put a scene in there making it more clear someone activated a self-destruct on the lair. Cut out all the London business afterwards. I'd have loved if then they did a stinger showing some Spectre henchmen go back into the burning facility to retrieve Blofeld, who survived, and take him away.

    Indeed...Sadly, with every review the missed opportunity in SP shows.

    Very true, but everything in Rome up to but not including the car chase, L’American, the train, and Blofeld’s lair up to but not including the escape keep me coming back.

    Yeah, true....I think that's why the Bond Franchise is unique....even the critically unsuccessful ones still have Something Special.

    Well SP wasn’t a universally acclaimed film, in the US received lot of mixed and bad reviews but in Europe it was received better. Some prominent critics loved it or found it a fine entry. In Italy for example critics generally considered it inferior to SF but still a good ride. Outside this community the most unsuccessful Craig film is QoS, generally speaking.
  • GadgetManGadgetMan Lagos, Nigeria
    Posts: 4,247
    matt_u wrote: »
    GadgetMan wrote: »
    GadgetMan wrote: »
    GadgetMan wrote: »
    Apart from the 'Brother' thing....I think if Blofeld held Bond Prisoner much longer & they had the usual witty Bond & Villian Charade, then the Movie would have been so much better with Bond involved in a Harrowing & Complex Escape Scene from the Lair. The finale just comes too quick, coz Bond didn't spend an entertaining chunk of time in Blofeld's Lair....even a Brainwashed Madeleine by Blofeld in the Lair, would have added some Dynamism to the film.

    100%. They should have really flushed out a harrowing escape for Bond requiring Madeleine's help, have them escape on the chopper while the lair explodes. They should also have put a scene in there making it more clear someone activated a self-destruct on the lair. Cut out all the London business afterwards. I'd have loved if then they did a stinger showing some Spectre henchmen go back into the burning facility to retrieve Blofeld, who survived, and take him away.

    Indeed...Sadly, with every review the missed opportunity in SP shows.

    Very true, but everything in Rome up to but not including the car chase, L’American, the train, and Blofeld’s lair up to but not including the escape keep me coming back.

    Yeah, true....I think that's why the Bond Franchise is unique....even the critically unsuccessful ones still have Something Special.

    Well SP wasn’t a universally acclaimed film, in the US received lot of mixed and bad reviews but in Europe it was received better. Some prominent critics loved it or found it a fine entry. In Italy for example critics generally considered it inferior to SF but still a good ride. Outside this community the most unsuccessful Craig film is QoS, generally speaking.

    Yeah, A Fair Assessment.
  • Last_Rat_StandingLast_Rat_Standing Long Neck Ice Cold Beer Never Broke My Heart
    Posts: 4,382
    It is by far the most bipolar Bond film for me. I love it and the next time I'll hate it. Some moments have a sense of genius and the next is abysmal. I enjoyed it enough in the theater, but I've enjoyed the other ones too DAD- SF when they first came out.
  • thedovethedove hiding in the Greek underworld
    Posts: 4,904
    I always judge a Bond film, or any film that's part of a series, by this simple metric. When the movie is over am I delighted? Am I ready to see it again? Do I want to drive fast on the way home! LOL!

    In recent memory I would say this is my rating on the entertainment value of the films:

    GE YES
    TND YES
    TWINE NO
    DAD YES
    CR YES
    QOS NO
    SF YES
    SP NO

    SP was such a disappointment to me. I was not feeling it when I left the theatre. I remember thinking of the squandered opportunity. Craig's films have been uneven in my book. I was hoping that NTTD would have kept the pattern and made me excited exiting the theatre. Now time will tell.
  • SeanCraigSeanCraig Germany
    edited April 2020 Posts: 732
    SP had a great cast and great talent behind the camera, too. There are some awesome scenes in it: PTS, all Q scenes, Mr.White Sequence, Rome meeting (right until that coocoo moment that makes me cringe), Bond‘s flat and L‘Americain. The rest is more than disappointing.

    Too bad Bautista was wasted on this film - a really cool Oddjob-alike Henchman. Overall the movie is a waste of talent, money and my time watching it (and most likely I will never watch it again besides those scenes mentioned above). To me the low point of the whole film series - all due to the bad writing and imho it‘s director never wanted to really do it anyway. The script and director did not deserve the cast and crew besides their paycheck.
  • edited July 2020 Posts: 4,400
    Sometime's quarantine throws out a gem......and that gem is Roger Deakins, who isn't ideal in the slightest.

    This is a fascinating interview between Sam Mendes and Roger Deakins (what a brilliant combination for a podcast no less!). Mendes is always so very articulate and massively charming. However, the most interesting revelations come from Mendes opening up about SP.

    He openly admits that he went into SP thinking that he had a great story and hook. However, realised late in the process that he didn't have a third act. By which point, it was simply too late. In fact, Mendes says verbatim that he 'failed with Spectre.' He essentially acknowledges that the script wasn't what he thought it was. He's very humble and frank in this regard.

    Mind you, he isn't afraid to pat himself on the back when he wants to. He does go as far as saying that for him American Beauty, Skyfall and 1917 are his strongest films. Mainly, as the final acts are, in his opinion, strong.

    Very good listen! It's made me want to watch 1917 again. Surprised that @MI6 have yet to run an article on this.



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  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,372
    I'd agree with his assessment about his top films - I love American Beauty and thought 1917 was fantastic, and even though SF is one of my least favorites of the series, on a technical level it fires on all cylinders and is a gorgeous looking film.
  • suavejmfsuavejmf Harrogate, North Yorkshire, England
    edited July 2020 Posts: 5,131
    A very, very good film review @Pierce2Daniel! I agree with many of your points.

    A very fair, balanced and interesting review @Pierce2Daniel.

    My main issue with SPECTRE is the anti-Fleming Step Brother angle and the disappointing (bungled) attempt at bringing back the iconic organisation. For me it’s also Craig’s weakest film in terms of script.

    I agree with many of your points. But I believe that the Craig era started off with perfection and diminished with each film. SP being entertaining, but poor compared with CR.

    The best part of SP for me....the Gunbarrel is back where it belongs and it’s a cracker!!

  • echoecho 007 in New York
    edited July 2020 Posts: 5,921
    peter wrote: »
    It's been an incredible experience-- @Shardlake and I have had a blast going through the original script-- seen in the film. We tried to reinterpret. But--

    The film/script for Spectre has no urgency. It floats.

    It was clear that basing it off of what we got was the first mistake. Without urgency and tension, there's no story worth telling.

    So, in this second draft, we took threads from B25 but are creating something wildly different to what we saw back in '15.

    Balls to the walls on this project that Shardlake and I have been embarking on.

    I'm intrigued. :)

    For me SP has myriad problems but chief among them are the shoehorning of the romance-worth-leaving-the-Service-for (again) and of course Brofeld. There are many missteps along the way, such as the endless Spectre meeting which does not even have the iconic Blofeld-kills-a-Spectre-member trope.

    It's as if John Logan never actually watched a classic SPECTRE movie.
  • RichardTheBruceRichardTheBruce I'm motivated by my Duty.
    Posts: 12,914
    In the Spectre meeting Hinx kills Guerra.

    It's not done by remote, still it's the classic SPECTRE ethos to use an overt execution to put their workforce on notice. They must perform and with absolute loyalty.

    To me that was clearly orchestrated by Blofeld.
  • NickTwentyTwoNickTwentyTwo Vancouver, BC, Canada
    Posts: 7,518
    In the Spectre meeting Hinx kills Guerra.

    It's not done by remote, still it's the classic SPECTRE ethos to use an overt execution to put their workforce on notice. They must perform and with absolute loyalty.

    To me that was clearly orchestrated by Blofeld.

    Exactly. It was Blofeld that interrupts the proceedings and has the "challenger" come into the meeting. Hopefully one can see this wasn't random.
  • w2bondw2bond is indeed a very rare breed
    Posts: 2,252
    It's a cool moment, but it gives the impression that Blofeld doesn't care about high ranking or loyal members. Absolute loyalty means nothing. Unless he did something we're not aware of - it would make more sense if they had a moment like the TB meeting scene.

    Perhaps it's a fear thing? Once you're in you are in forever and under his control
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    Posts: 5,921
    In the Spectre meeting Hinx kills Guerra.

    It's not done by remote, still it's the classic SPECTRE ethos to use an overt execution to put their workforce on notice. They must perform and with absolute loyalty.

    To me that was clearly orchestrated by Blofeld.

    Exactly. It was Blofeld that interrupts the proceedings and has the "challenger" come into the meeting. Hopefully one can see this wasn't random.

    It's not as effective when Blofeld himself doesn't push the button. Compare Stromberg (né Blofeld) in TSWLM.
  • RichardTheBruceRichardTheBruce I'm motivated by my Duty.
    Posts: 12,914
    To me it's simply compelling in a different and probably deeper way. The villain's omnipotence (for the moment) is established.

    And separately yes, I took Guerra as at fault for some punishable offense. Public declarations not needed.
  • NickTwentyTwoNickTwentyTwo Vancouver, BC, Canada
    edited July 2020 Posts: 7,518
    echo wrote: »
    In the Spectre meeting Hinx kills Guerra.

    It's not done by remote, still it's the classic SPECTRE ethos to use an overt execution to put their workforce on notice. They must perform and with absolute loyalty.

    To me that was clearly orchestrated by Blofeld.

    Exactly. It was Blofeld that interrupts the proceedings and has the "challenger" come into the meeting. Hopefully one can see this wasn't random.

    It's not as effective when Blofeld himself doesn't push the button. Compare Stromberg (né Blofeld) in TSWLM.

    I see your point. It doesn't convey the same feeling in the scene, I grant you.
  • This has to be Craig's coolest shot as Bond...His posture and chance. His outfit, the location, his look. The cinematography is perfect...It almost looks like a seriously sexy catwalk fashion show. I have so much love for the styling and look that Craig had in SP. The only complaint I would raise is the dodgy jacket he wears in the Austria chase and his hair when he wears the white tuxedo. Both merely nitpicks.

    But dang this shot is so very sexy...

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  • DenbighDenbigh UK
    Posts: 5,834
    I completely agree @Pierce2Daniel.

    Also (besides the blue dress which I'm not a fan of honestly), I love both of Madeleine's main looks in Morocco. The white dress and her other white outfit are great and Seydoux looks absolutely beautiful in both.

    Spectre-0839.jpg
    Spectre-1024.jpg
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