Where does Bond go after Craig? *Potential SPOILERS*

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  • BondJasonBond006BondJasonBond006 on fb and ajb
    Posts: 9,021
    bondjames wrote: »
    Craig is overrated. Once another actor has taken over that will be seen. (And yes, that is my opinion too).

    That may very well be true. It's normal for the incumbent to receive a higher rating while in the job than once he leaves. It's only once he's gone that we can actually properly look back (with the benefit of hindsight) and properly assess his tenure.

    I'd say that Brosnan was grossly overrated during his tenure (2nd coming of Connery etc. which I found ridiculous then, and which does, with the benefit of hindsight, appear almost a joke now......at least for many).

    So yes, I think that we will look back on DC's run more critically, but that will really depend on what EON does post-DC. If they cast some uncharismatic lightweight who has limited acting capabilities (on account of new studio meddling or in order to satisfy some constituency) then we may in fact all be pleading for DC's return, even in his 50's.

    I look forward to seeing how this plays out....once the switch is made.

    Your logic works, but you forgot something.

    The one before the current Bond always gets the most heat.
    This is Brosnan now.

    In 10 years, when we will have possibly 2 Bond films with the new actor, Brosnan will be viewed upon the same way as Moore, that I'm certain of.
  • MurdockMurdock Mr. 2000
    Posts: 16,093

    I don't believe that. Will the USA from now on only have black presidents?
    Did Star Trek cast only black Captains after Jeremy Sisko?
    Presidents are real people, people who change jobs every 4 to 8 years, no one man is president so his race is hardly relevant. And 2, "Ben" Sisko isn't a recast of a white character. He's an original strong black character. And given Star Trek is set in the future and feature different space ship crews of multiple species, and races this too is Irrelevant.

    James Bond is one man, created by Ian Fleming, given full details and characteristics. Bond was written as a White Man. That's how it should stay. We can't change our race realistically or at the drop of a hat. Neither could or should James Bond. It just wouldn't be logical. Or smart financially.
  • suavejmfsuavejmf Harrogate, North Yorkshire, England
    Posts: 5,131
    Agreed Murdock. I wonder what Cubby would have thought.....The same no doubt.
  • BondJasonBond006BondJasonBond006 on fb and ajb
    Posts: 9,021
    Murdock wrote: »

    I don't believe that. Will the USA from now on only have black presidents?
    Did Star Trek cast only black Captains after Jeremy Sisko?
    Presidents are real people, people who change jobs every 4 to 8 years, no one man is president so his race is hardly relevant. And 2, "Ben" Sisko isn't a recast of a white character. He's an original strong black character. And given Star Trek is set in the future and feature different space ship crews of multiple species, and races this too is Irrelevant.

    James Bond is one man, created by Ian Fleming, given full details and characteristics. Bond was written as a White Man. That's how it should stay. We can't change our race realistically or at the drop of a hat. Neither could or should James Bond. It just wouldn't be logical. Or smart financially.

    I know my examples have flaws.

    But what about Moneypenny?? M??
    Isn't it as "wrong" to cast a black woman for MP or a woman for M?
    I know, they are just side-characters, but just saying.

    I don't trust BB entirely to respect Fleming or her father.
    If she sees fit to cast a black man for Bond she will, it's her decision.

    I'm neutral on this topic of casting a black man for Bond (I'm Swiss. :P )
    I just point out some things to consider.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited September 2015 Posts: 23,883
    bondjames wrote: »
    Craig is overrated. Once another actor has taken over that will be seen. (And yes, that is my opinion too).

    That may very well be true. It's normal for the incumbent to receive a higher rating while in the job than once he leaves. It's only once he's gone that we can actually properly look back (with the benefit of hindsight) and properly assess his tenure.

    I'd say that Brosnan was grossly overrated during his tenure (2nd coming of Connery etc. which I found ridiculous then, and which does, with the benefit of hindsight, appear almost a joke now......at least for many).

    So yes, I think that we will look back on DC's run more critically, but that will really depend on what EON does post-DC. If they cast some uncharismatic lightweight who has limited acting capabilities (on account of new studio meddling or in order to satisfy some constituency) then we may in fact all be pleading for DC's return, even in his 50's.

    I look forward to seeing how this plays out....once the switch is made.

    Your logic works, but you forgot something.

    The one before the current Bond always gets the most heat.
    This is Brosnan now.

    In 10 years, when we will have possibly 2 Bond films with the new actor, Brosnan will be viewed upon the same way as Moore, that I'm certain of.

    We'll have to agree to disagree on the bold bit.

    Moore definitely brought something new to the table, which is essential in a creative endeavour. So did Connery (as the first) So did Dalton (by going deeply to Fleming). So has Craig (undoubtedly). That is the trick with Bond imho - one must innovate when dealing with the film characterization in order to make one's mark.

    The fact that you compared Brosnan to Moore confirms that his tenure can best be looked upon in that way (to validate and authenticate its output), rather than on its own creative terms. That does not bode well for his legacy.
  • suavejmfsuavejmf Harrogate, North Yorkshire, England
    Posts: 5,131
    Good point. If Bond becomes black combined with Felix and Moneypenny half the cast will be black. Ha ha ha. In my opinion casting a black bond is like casting white actors in the new NWA film.....ie silly.
  • MurdockMurdock Mr. 2000
    Posts: 16,093
    I know my examples have flaws.

    But what about Moneypenny?? M??
    Isn't it as "wrong" to cast a black woman for MP or a woman for M?
    I know, they are just side-characters, but just saying.

    I don't trust BB entirely to respect Fleming or her father.
    If she sees fit to cast a black man for Bond she will, it's her decision.

    I'm neutral on this topic of casting a black man for Bond (I'm Swiss. :P )
    I just point out some things to consider.

    Nobody goes to a James Bond movie to see Moneypenny so her change is pretty minor. M is a different person. "M" is just a title, it can be given to anyone, same with "Q"
  • suavejmfsuavejmf Harrogate, North Yorkshire, England
    Posts: 5,131
    Yep.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited September 2015 Posts: 23,883
    Murdock wrote: »
    I know my examples have flaws.

    But what about Moneypenny?? M??
    Isn't it as "wrong" to cast a black woman for MP or a woman for M?
    I know, they are just side-characters, but just saying.

    I don't trust BB entirely to respect Fleming or her father.
    If she sees fit to cast a black man for Bond she will, it's her decision.

    I'm neutral on this topic of casting a black man for Bond (I'm Swiss. :P )
    I just point out some things to consider.

    Nobody goes to a James Bond movie to see Moneypenny so her change is pretty minor. M is a different person. "M" is just a title, it can be given to anyone, same with "Q"

    It shouldn't matter what his colour is, but it does matter.

    A lot of this is due to the importance of the character in history (and many of our lifetimes) and our desire for familiarity when it comes to our heroes. We idolize them based on our perception of them (height, weight, hair, acting.....since this is a film characterization after all, poise etc.) and in relation to what/who has come before in the role.

    I believe the 'black' argument is the same as the 'short' argument or the 'rugged' vs 'suave' argument. It rubs some people the wrong way, just more so than the other characteristics because it is so much more apparent.

    Bottom line - it's just not sellable globally - at least not for now.
  • bond_azoozbondbond_azoozbond Portland,OR
    Posts: 97
    Well I dont mind to see a black M or a black Q but james bond himself should remain white forever ..
  • suavejmfsuavejmf Harrogate, North Yorkshire, England
    Posts: 5,131
    Yes. Bond still has make money across the box office world.
  • BondJasonBond006BondJasonBond006 on fb and ajb
    edited September 2015 Posts: 9,021
    suavejmf wrote: »
    Good point. If Bond becomes black combined with Felix and Moneypenny half the cast will be black. Ha ha ha. In my opinion casting a black bond is like casting white actors in the new NWA film.....ie silly.

    Yeah, I'm a bit cross with F. Gary Gray actually, that he did not cast Vanilla Ice for the part of Ice Cube, it would be so obviously right and I'm afraid Mr. Gray is a bit racist. <:-P

    (humour end)

    Oh and just to wipe out all possible misunderstandings: Gary Gray so happens to be in my Top 10 list of best directors :) Law Abiding Citizen, Italian Job, The Negotiator and Set It Off are all among my favourite movies.
    And if Compton doesn't get Oscar nominations and wins I will be very MAD
  • BondJasonBond006BondJasonBond006 on fb and ajb
    Posts: 9,021
    Birdleson wrote: »
    It gets to the point where it becomes a different character. Being a white Englishman is intrinsic to the James Bond that I grew up reading and watching in film. You can throw an Aussie in there (though I am not happy with that either), and train him to change his accent, but you aren't going to ask a black actor to put on white face. The character has strayed far enough form his roots over the years. Are we now just going to throw it all out?

    There is no reason why Idris, or whoever else, cannot have a new espionage character written for him.

    I'm still neutral on this topic but you have a point.

    Idris Elba is great, I like him in everything and I understand why he was brought up as a possible Bond.
    But your idea to cast him in another franchise would be great. What about a modern Shaft? Or better create a new Star Trek TV Show and cast him as Captain.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited September 2015 Posts: 23,883
    Birdleson wrote: »
    It gets to the point where it becomes a different character. Being a white Englishman is intrinsic to the James Bond that I grew up reading and watching in film. You can throw an Aussie in there (though I am not happy with that either), and train him to change his accent, but you aren't going to ask a black actor to put on white face. The character has strayed far enough form his roots over the years. Are we now just going to throw it all out?

    There is no reason why Idris, or whoever else, cannot have a new espionage character written for him.

    I'm still neutral on this topic but you have a point.

    Idris Elba is great, I like him in everything and I understand why he was brought up as a possible Bond.
    But your idea to cast him in another franchise would be great. What about a modern Shaft? Or better create a new Star Trek TV Show and cast him as Captain.

    I'm personally opposed to this, because Elba is good enough of an actor to play a more 'mainstream' character and one who is not so defined by his colour/race.

    He is the kind of actor (like Denzel) who can transcend the barriers, and he should be given that chance........just not with Bond, imho.

    A new franchise (like Luther but for the big screen) would be what I'd prefer.
  • Love the Star Trek idea

    ..though he's the bad in next year's film
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    Can people stop conflating the casting of black people as white 'fictional' characters with the casting of white people as 'real' black people. It's tedious and nonsensical. If you think Bond should remain white just say so. Stop wasting everyone's time with this idiocy.
  • Posts: 256
    AlexTrough wrote: »
    I think it is a chance to make bond a big black man. idris elber is my choice because I like to watch luther and the wire. it would be good to make it part of the story like when in you only live twice connery is made like a Chinese man this time craig could play bond in the opening sequence and they make him black to go undercover in a London gang. Idris elber would come into it for the rest of the film. this way it would make sense for his colour to change. it would give humour too because bond could have a scene where he looks in the mirror and says I cant believe I am a black man now

    Only when Shaft is played by a white actor

  • BondJasonBond006BondJasonBond006 on fb and ajb
    Posts: 9,021
    Elba will never happen. TOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOLD

    I wonder how long it takes until this info actually arrives in anyone's faculty of reason.


    Bring on David Oyelowo.... :)) (just kidding)
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    Posts: 4,520
    Relax, everyone. Now can we talk about whether Jesus was black? ;)
  • Mark_HazzardMark_Hazzard Classified
    edited September 2015 Posts: 127
    Let's get back on topic, shall we?

    Now I've read somewhere that the DC era can be regarded as a long 'Bond Begins' series, and is in fact a sort of DK-series. He is slowly transforming from the blunt instrument into the suave, gadget-laden secret agent, see the DB10 with 'tricks'. It seems EON is re-establishing the Bond universe, including SPECTRE.

    It will be interesting to see what they will do with this universe after DC has left. Spielberg had an interesting comment recently that people probably will get fed up with superhero movies by DC and Marvel. So who will EON to follow after those will start to fail?

    What I am definitely convinced of is that EON will continue to hire more A-listers for their movies. It's maybe the most important lessen from the DC-era, perhaps just SF, that bringing in more A-listers will bring in more quality and money for the movies.

    Also in terms of writing, I'd love to see Haggis pen another script. Wasn't he responsible for CR? I've been saying it quite often here on the forum, but I'd really like to see a more espionage-related plot. It's almost Cold War all over again out there in the real world for God's sake! I'll probably voice an unpopular opinion, but I thought that the plots for GE and TND were superior to QoS and SF. Fleming always thought that his novels were supposed to be escapist thrillers. That's what EON should be making.
  • ShardlakeShardlake Leeds, West Yorkshire, England
    edited September 2015 Posts: 4,043
    They should continue to cast no big stars as Bond, Bond makes the actor a star not vice versa.

    The moment they cast a big name people will just look at them and go oh that's Tom Hardy or oh that's Michael Fassbender, DC being low key although known made it easy for people to accept him as the new Bond as there was no one he'd played before he was really associated with. I seriously hope they don't buck the trend.

    The next actor is very unlikely to say you know what I'm interested in playing this more like Roger Moore. Daniel Craig's interpretation has changed the way actors and directors see Bond to think this won't factor into who gets cast next is just being in denial.

    Just because as fans you might like the not so layered easy going suave spy again, actors when they take on roles want something more interesting and to get their teeth into. I don't see a regression back to Moore or Brosnan Bond anytime soon, the next actor will be more like Craig in their approach and hopefully no big name.
  • BondJasonBond006BondJasonBond006 on fb and ajb
    Posts: 9,021
    But then what does low-key or unknown mean these days.
    In 2005 the social media was only in its baby-steps.

    If they want to avoid any social media overhype (negative or positive) they would have to cast a complete newcomer, which just might be the reasonable thing to do.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    Much as I would like that, I don't think it will happen (i.e. a complete newcomer).

    DC changed the game. Bond is big business now.

    It likely will be someone we've all heard of (although some markets may be more familiar with him than others).
  • ShardlakeShardlake Leeds, West Yorkshire, England
    Posts: 4,043
    I mean no Hardy or Fassbender's I've seen a few here post those 2 as contenders. Both are rather famously associated with other roles.

    The next actor needs to be someone who's not part of another franchise, the idea of Cavill is utterly silly after Superman and now Uncle.

    All likelihood a character actor who's been in TV and some films but nothing where they've become synonymous with a particular role and audiences would be challenged to see them outside of that.

    Dan Stevens or Tom Hughes spring to mind, I imagine the next Bond is on peoples radars and has been talked about, this day and age with the internet all sorts of people become associated with the role however unsuitable.
  • Posts: 1,680
    I firmly believe the next man to play Bond is in his late 20s & probably isnt someone anyone has really heard of.
  • Posts: 8,796
    goes to a light but still serious approach with Tom Hardy of course.
  • BondJasonBond006BondJasonBond006 on fb and ajb
    Posts: 9,021
    Isn't the far more pressing question:

    Where does Craig go after Bond? <:-P
  • Posts: 725
    Shardlake wrote: »
    I mean no Hardy or Fassbender's I've seen a few here post those 2 as contenders. Both are rather famously associated with other roles.

    The next actor needs to be someone who's not part of another franchise, the idea of Cavill is utterly silly after Superman and now Uncle.

    All likelihood a character actor who's been in TV and some films but nothing where they've become synonymous with a particular role and audiences would be challenged to see them outside of that.

    Dan Stevens or Tom Hughes spring to mind, I imagine the next Bond is on peoples radars and has been talked about, this day and age with the internet all sorts of people become associated with the role however unsuitable.

    Agreed. EON struck BO gold with Craig. Why would they change course. I would think they want a Bond actor who will bleed into the Bond character, not an actor whose resume is so strong already that they could dominate Bond's character. I'd add Charlie Hunnan to the mix. I think he adheres to the description above. I also kind of think the fact that he somewhat resembles Craig, although actually more conventionally handsome, would help make the transition more seamless.

    But if Craig does Bond 25, Bond 7 would be 4-5 yrs off. Also SP could not do so well, the budgets could be slashed and the action cut back, EON heads could change, or Nolan could take Bond on. I did find Hardy's current positive remark about considering Bond (given how in demand he is) very interesting. As a Nolan "go to" guy, he has had to discuss Bond with Nolan. I think Nolan would love to put his stamp on Bond, and EON, having tasted a $1b film would drool at the thought.
  • BondJasonBond006BondJasonBond006 on fb and ajb
    Posts: 9,021
    @smitty

    Your thoughts on Nolan and EON (well it's BB) drooling at the thought (of $$$$) are spot-on.

    If they can they'll get Nolan and let him do his thing.

    First they'll stick to Mendes like glue if Spectre is another billion dollar movie (which it will be) but after Bond 25 it will be over with Mendes and Craig and then BB's gonna search for the next best thing that'll guarantee her monetary success.
  • SirHilaryBraySirHilaryBray Scotland
    edited September 2015 Posts: 2,138
    After Dan, Mendes I think It will be Chris Nolan, with Hoyte van Hoytema staying on a cinematographer together after the work they did together on interstellar and although not my first choice I would be accepting of Tom Hardy (having seen him older in Legend) who of course Nolan directed in Inception and The Dark Knight Rises. I am tempting to stick money on it.

    Nolan "I love James Bond and I've talked with the producers over the years, but nothing's ever worked out," .

    "They do a great job - they don't need me right now, and Sam [Mendes] is an extraordinary talent. I will absolutely be first in line to see the next Bond film as I have been for all of them."



    This will of course only be on the proviso that Warner Brothers win the rights at the pending tender with Sony no longer part of the picture.
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