Where does Bond go after Craig? *Potential SPOILERS*

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  • Posts: 39
    I think it will go in a totally different direction and have more of a modern Roger Moore era 'fun vibe' ala the superhero films of James Gunn/Taika Waititi
  • Posts: 618
    Unfortunately for T Dalton and everyone else involved: the Bond films were not "fresh" in the film market at the time. Secondly, the scripts were lame. With Bond already regarded as not fresh, wan stories and direction made the films even more vulnerable. On the prior occasion on which Bond was not highly regarded was following TMWTGG. It was not funded well. The producers cranked it out quickly following LALD. LALD got more interest due to having a new Bond actor. TSWLM, the follow-up to TMWTGG was a spectacular film, which reminded people why the Bond films had been popular. It came on strong and was FUN. If it copied anything, it copied prior Bond films, NOT whatever trend was popular in pop-films at the time. (Unfortunately, the producers went back to following trends and not setting them with MR, which did great box-office, but was an inferior film.) OP again got Bond up with a FUN, exotic story and film unlike other movies of the day. AVTAK was a let-down, with the star poorly paired, casting-wise, with the leading lady. TLD needed more than just a new Bond actor to make it interesting...and did not quite deliver. T Dalton was not served well by the script in either of his films, very unfortunately. I don't think "a serious Bond" bothered people. It was just that the films were not spectacular, fun or unique films you could see only in a Bond movie. LTK, in particular, was far too similar to a story that was already cliche by then -- cop goes rogue to get the drug lord and this time it's personal...good grief HOW many films were described by that summary ?!!? The teen-jealousy sub-plot certainly did not help. The villains in T Dalton's films were not larger than life, and were rather run of the mill. From what I've read, TD's third Bond film, were it made, may have been rather like TSWLM -- not in terms of a silly factor, but in terms of bringing back a spectacle unseen in other films. Fun and unique to Bond. They just should have gotten to that right off in TD's first film.
  • DenbighDenbigh UK
    edited May 7 Posts: 4,667
    I think they'll keep moving forward. At this point, to go backwards (in time in this instance) would be too big of a jump for a franchise that is already struggling to keep the general audience interest.

    Once No Time to Die is released and the consensus is in on how successful it is critically and financially, they'll keep their ear to the ground, and figure out what's working elsewhere because a lot can change between now and the scriptwriting process for Bond 26, let alone casting, which will in itself shape up what they go for in terms of tone and style...

    ...but I think we can be assured that they'll keep it modern. Whatever the case it'll be a James Bond film, cause no matter what the tone, style or point of reference, it has always remained the franchise we love :)
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 8,787
    Since62 wrote: »
    Unfortunately for T Dalton and everyone else involved: the Bond films were not "fresh" in the film market at the time. Secondly, the scripts were lame. With Bond already regarded as not fresh, wan stories and direction made the films even more vulnerable. On the prior occasion on which Bond was not highly regarded was following TMWTGG. It was not funded well. The producers cranked it out quickly following LALD. LALD got more interest due to having a new Bond actor. TSWLM, the follow-up to TMWTGG was a spectacular film, which reminded people why the Bond films had been popular. It came on strong and was FUN. If it copied anything, it copied prior Bond films, NOT whatever trend was popular in pop-films at the time. (Unfortunately, the producers went back to following trends and not setting them with MR, which did great box-office, but was an inferior film.) OP again got Bond up with a FUN, exotic story and film unlike other movies of the day. AVTAK was a let-down, with the star poorly paired, casting-wise, with the leading lady. TLD needed more than just a new Bond actor to make it interesting...and did not quite deliver. T Dalton was not served well by the script in either of his films, very unfortunately. I don't think "a serious Bond" bothered people. It was just that the films were not spectacular, fun or unique films you could see only in a Bond movie. LTK, in particular, was far too similar to a story that was already cliche by then -- cop goes rogue to get the drug lord and this time it's personal...good grief HOW many films were described by that summary ?!!? The teen-jealousy sub-plot certainly did not help. The villains in T Dalton's films were not larger than life, and were rather run of the mill. From what I've read, TD's third Bond film, were it made, may have been rather like TSWLM -- not in terms of a silly factor, but in terms of bringing back a spectacle unseen in other films. Fun and unique to Bond. They just should have gotten to that right off in TD's first film.

    Dalton himself didn’t capture much imagination though: it was a lukewarm reception to him at best. Both Brosnan and Craig were immediately hailed as the successes of their movies when they appeared after. As you say, a serious Bond didn’t really bother people (TLD was probably lighter than FYEO!): Dalton just didn’t have the star power in the role.
  • Posts: 618
    Agreed, though I still like the idea of an expanded Bond universe. I suppose it would require some delegation, to bring in additional production and producers. It would allow for some variation in direction, style, etc. I think -- even without the pandemic-influenced increase in streaming's place in the market -- that some of it would do better as Long Form programming on a streaming platform. However -- does anyone see Paramount + as something people will sign up for -- when they already have Netflix and Amazon, and perhaps HBO + and Disney + ? Setting aside the question of which Streamer, then, there could be productions of Young Bond (in period), an Incomprehensible jumped-the-shark Christopher Nolan modern-day Bond, Moneypenny stories (I've not read the Moneypenny books but there's three of them), M stories ? Nah -- M in the books was an admiral in the Navy so his experience tended to be military, at a high level, so when he started managing the secret agents he went right to the top, so there would not be any "young M adventures" other than being on ships in the Navy, but someone could develop a few instances of M in the field, perhaps with some tense encounters with his counterparts, during the post-WWII era, although that might be too close to early Bond stories so FORGET M stories. Bond in period -- including the novels post-Fleming which then modern-day but now would be in period (Colonel Sun, Per Fine Ounce) and the ones written recently that are set in the 50s and 60s. Bond in the 50s and 60s -- as well as Young Bond, which goes back to the 30s -- might seem in conflict with a Current-Day Bond, but -- So what ?!!?
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 8,787
    I can actually imagine Nomi being cool enough to actually star in her own thing: but the problem you would have then is that she's a cool 00 operating under M, driving Aston Martins etc. in the world of the Bond movies, so you may as well just have Bond.

    I'm not really sure how you do a Bond spinoff, although I suppose Harris as Moneypenny could potentially have adventures with a different enough flavour to make them interesting and she wouldn't just be a Bond replacement, and I think she's really good, so I would possibly watch that.
  • Posts: 25
    Where do we go next? Well if we are talking as of this writing, and if the gossip is to believed and
    1. Tom Hardy (or someone like him) is cast. Then we will have more Bond as Mr. ex-British special forces. A brute trying to be a gentleman. With stories about him infiltrating various criminal underworld organizations. Drug Cartels, armament king pins. The villain will be more like Largo in Thunderball
    2. If James Norton (or someone like him) is cast, then we will have an Oxbridge grad and civil servant (with a brief stint in the forces). Who will try and infiltrate the corporate world. Big tech, Big pharma, Big Oil and High finance. The villain with be more along the lines of Elliot Carver in TND

    Personally I am going to go with 1. given how much Jason Bourne type action heroes are popular with the general public.
  • DenbighDenbigh UK
    edited May 7 Posts: 4,667
    The problem with spin-offs is that the franchise is set up to support one character. Unlike Marvel, DC, and even Harry Potter, the James Bond franchise isn't really a world to explore with new characters. The buck kind of stops and starts with James Bond himself, so makes it really hard to even imagine what a spin-off could be in the "world" of 007.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 8,787
    Denbigh wrote: »
    The problem with spin-offs is that the franchise is set up to support one character. Unlike Marvel, DC, and even Harry Potter, the James Bond franchise isn't really a world to explore with new characters. The buck kind of stops and starts with James Bond himself, so makes it really hard to even imagine what a spin-off could be in the "world" of 007.

    Yes indeed: it is Bond's world so you would just end up wanting to know what Bond is up to! :D
    But, I dunno: a Moneypenny Netflix series or something like that- a bit more conspiracy/techno thrillerish London-y thing... maybe even with a Q cameo... I could sort of see it working.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Costa Mucho
    Posts: 41,978
    Denbigh wrote: »
    The problem with spin-offs is that the franchise is set up to support one character. Unlike Marvel, DC, and even Harry Potter, the James Bond franchise isn't really a world to explore with new characters. The buck kind of stops and starts with James Bond himself, so makes it really hard to even imagine what a spin-off could be in the "world" of 007.

    I have mentioned this before, but want to repeat that I would love a Wint and Kidd tv series, and also a Max the parrot series, possibly as a cartoon.
  • DenbighDenbigh UK
    edited May 9 Posts: 4,667
    mtm wrote: »
    Denbigh wrote: »
    The problem with spin-offs is that the franchise is set up to support one character. Unlike Marvel, DC, and even Harry Potter, the James Bond franchise isn't really a world to explore with new characters. The buck kind of stops and starts with James Bond himself, so makes it really hard to even imagine what a spin-off could be in the "world" of 007.

    Yes indeed: it is Bond's world so you would just end up wanting to know what Bond is up to! :D
    +1

    But if I was to give my own opinion on what they should do (maybe):

    I would honestly tell EON to keep their eye on The Batman. I mean, we'll see what happens when we get closer to its release and after, but there's something about it that's connecting with audiences already. While the controversy of Pattinson's casting is apparent, it's certainly got its teeth rooted in the source material as well including a cast and crew that really speaks to modern audiences. And seeing Reeves' passion, I wouldn't someone like that (not specifically Reeves) giving James Bond a go.
  • Posts: 2,513
    mtm wrote: »
    Why watch some guy on a table with a buzzsaw travelling up between his legs when I could be watching Connery with a laser beam, in a Ken Adam set with John Barry's music playing?
    Fair enough, that's a good point. Hard to argue with that.

  • ImpertinentGoonImpertinentGoon Everybody needs a hobby.
    Posts: 714
    I'll say it again eventhough I know it will never happen and is a bit naff anyway.

    I want a 30-minute, 20+ episodes a season sitcom about the office workers at MI6 who have to make all the unbelievable stuff that happens to their top spy work out somehow.
    Do one season for one film in the franchise. Just imagine Steve in IT and Penny in Public Relations during Skyfall. Or Bruce and Lenny, the lovable North London guards, when Blofeld is brought in after Spectre. "Heard he's that Bond guy's borther." "Foster brother." "What?" "Foster brother. Everybody always says they are brothers, but it was like a two year thing." "How do you know that?" "He told me." "What?!" And so on and so forth.

    I would also love a well produced docu-series - possibly even on YouTube - on the design and technology in Bond
  • edited May 9 Posts: 566
    Denbigh wrote: »
    The problem with spin-offs is that the franchise is set up to support one character. Unlike Marvel, DC, and even Harry Potter, the James Bond franchise isn't really a world to explore with new characters. The buck kind of stops and starts with James Bond himself, so makes it really hard to even imagine what a spin-off could be in the "world" of 007.

    Clearly, the world of James Bond as it exists today cannot be extended with spin-off. However, it doesn't mean it's impossible in the future. The Craig era really had this particularity to really be self-centered without presenting foreign intelligence services, automatically closing the door to any world-building. The previous continuity had this quality of introducing a whole mythology with various characters who, for some, could have been entitled to their own spin-off. I'm thinking in particular about Tiger Tanaka and Francisco Scaramanga (even if for the latter it would have been more of a prequel than anything else).

    Bond 26 would gain I think to come back to this habit of creating a world of espionage, populated by colorful foreign agents and assassins. If that were the case, then consider a spin-off would appear much more natural and simple. Not that it is necessarily something I wish, but there would be something much less artificial. A new version Tanaka, or a similar character, for example, presented at first as an ally of Bond in a future installment could then be the subject of his own movie.
  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe "I need a year off" Craig
    edited May 9 Posts: 7,316
    @CraigMooreOHMSS "I'm not quite sure what it is that you want, then. Unless I'm mistaken (and I apologise if I am); you're against the character fundamentally changing, but also against the character staying the same while changing the world around him, which is something they've been doing for nearly three decades now. Is there a middle ground here that I'm not seeing? What is the alternative to those two that is also not a fundamental change to the series in itself?"

    What I mean is there has always been incremental updates to the stories to make them feel like they take place in the modern world, but if we are reaching the point where the character himself is forced into occupying an antihero role for the rest of time, then perhaps we need to re-evaluate what takes precedence. Bond doesn't represent woke culture, and never has done, but is that necessarily a problem? Can't we just bite the bullet, accept the character the way he is and go along with it. Does bowing to the mob, and including some elements just to score woke points really improve ticket sales on opening weekend? The smart thing to do is to present the woke veneer of modernity that you or I inhabit as the layer of artifice under which the real work is done. We might have overlords and elites dictating our every move, but Bond is still part of the jungle. All he knows is life and death, success or failure. Fleming always used to write as if being a part of the most secret of service and seeing death on a daily basis, you almost become a different species all together, and Bonds hazing ritual into this life took place at the hands of Le Chiffre and that knotted rope. Craig has portrayed the character with a lot of humanity, that's his strong point, but it has meant that the character has almost become too human. I think that a darker take on the character would be well, in which he is not merely floating, flailing on top of a horrible business, but subsumed within it. But but to counterbalance this, the movies should also reintroduce a sense of humour, like a wicked dark cruelty, which we have seen before from Connery and Moore. The films need to move on from the realism they have sought to maintain since Craig arrived. I have no idea why people seem to think that the films must be serious and grounded in order to be a success. We've had decades of films that border on farce at times, didn't seem to matter too much, and being serious and poe-faced for the sake of it can be its own pitfall (see Quantum of Solace). This is very limiting, an in the past years we have seen franchises like Mission Impossible and Kingsman spring up to fill the void that Bond vacated. This is why I think Aidan Turner is perfect for the role, as I feel he could nail both the dark humour and also the introspective side, they it would need for someone to bridge that gap and portray it all convincingly in the same package. If you "Watch And Then There Were None" its a great prototype of how I could see the character in a few years.
  • M_BaljeM_Balje Amsterdam, Netherlands
    Posts: 3,816
    Though, the recent 'The Batman' and 'Dune' trailers feel like they are setting the tone moving forward. I get the impression that Eon will feel more inclined to follow their lead. I think we are already seeing that with Cary Fukunaga's involvement in NTTD. I think they will want to push more into that A24 territory. Make it younger, edgier, and cooler (much like how they did in 2006 when I was 16. Now they need a new era of 16 year-olds on board). I think there is clearly a young audience ready for a new Bond.

    The glamorous, aspirational and exotic tone is very suited to the Instagram crowd. Another generation of Bond fans in the making.

    There should keep good things from DC era. Opening of Spectre is good example.

    Modern The Spy Who Love Me / Live And Let Die with cast of middle east or asian people.

    Another Bond movie take place in VS or go to Ireland, Cypres.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 8,787
    M_Balje wrote: »

    Another Bond movie take place in VS or go to Ireland, Cypres.

    Cyprus is a good thought: interesting political backdrop too.

    Further to Pierce2Daniel's point about the Instagram generation, I wonder if Matera is the sort of destination we can expect to see more of i.e. slightly less well-known but extremely photogenic locations which Bond can sort of 'claim' onscreen.
  • DragonpolDragonpol Writer @ http://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    Posts: 14,958
    mtm wrote: »
    M_Balje wrote: »

    Another Bond movie take place in VS or go to Ireland, Cypres.

    Cyprus is a good thought: interesting political backdrop too.

    Further to Pierce2Daniel's point about the Instagram generation, I wonder if Matera is the sort of destination we can expect to see more of i.e. slightly less well-known but extremely photogenic locations which Bond can sort of 'claim' onscreen.

    In that regard Eon could consider adapting in some way Raymond Benson's second Bond continuation novel The Facts of Death (1998). The novel's plot deals with Cyprus, Turkey and the UK from a geopolitical standpoint.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 8,787
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    M_Balje wrote: »

    Another Bond movie take place in VS or go to Ireland, Cypres.

    Cyprus is a good thought: interesting political backdrop too.

    Further to Pierce2Daniel's point about the Instagram generation, I wonder if Matera is the sort of destination we can expect to see more of i.e. slightly less well-known but extremely photogenic locations which Bond can sort of 'claim' onscreen.

    In that regard Eon could consider adapting in some way Raymond Benson's second Bond continuation novel The Facts of Death (1998). The novel's plot deals with Cyprus, Turkey and the UK from a geopolitical standpoint.

    I probably wouldn't, because it's fairly terrible! :D
  • Posts: 4,430
    Its an interesting topic re the fact that, perhaps without thinking about it, Fleming created his own "Avengers" by having a 007 (thereby implying that there are at least 6 other agents). I fully realise that this forum is packed with those who want to respect tradition, Bond's legacy etc etc. But, as with any argument, tradition alone is a rather weak foundation. There is an MI6 universe. M, Q, Moneypenny etc do not work exclusively with Bond. The majority of their time is spent with other agents assisting with other exciting missions. Spin off adventures enable EON to move with the times in terms of characteres, themes, tone, age, gender etc whilst still having Bond working on his own to please core "traditional" fans. EON have huge potential here IMHO but my gut says that they simply dont have a sense of risk and/or ambition to explore the universe.

    PS its fascinating all the "fuss" we have had re race, gender and Bond whilst, via Skyfall (9 years ago) , we have seen a black, comparatively young (35) woman working shoulder to shoulder with Bond in the field and this hardly raised an eyebrow. If fans can try to put tradition to one side and just look at what could work re good story telling and established/ liked characters (and actors), a Naomi Harris spin off is just sitting there (or was) waiting to be made.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 8,787
    I think Harris could have done it.

    Films with other 00 agents I don’t really see the point of though: even if they were different to Bond they’d still be doing the same things as him, you’d likely end up with not-quite Bond movies; and then you’ve got Eon making rivals to their own series, which would be mad.
    With Harris as Moneypenny I can imagine something a bit less action-based, probably more thriller-y, maybe even more drama-based.
  • DenbighDenbigh UK
    edited May 10 Posts: 4,667
    I mean at the end of the day, anything's possible, but personally, I struggle to see how the risks could outweigh the wins. To create a spin-off for a franchise that's nearly 60 years old and isn't really a "universe" when most franchises with the ability to create spin-offs are based on source material with extensive universes and many narrative possibilities that are specific to that franchise and each one with enough of its own identity to offer something different each time...

    ...but what would differentiate a spin-off in the world of a modern, realistic spy even if slightly extravagant from just another spy film when the source material the entire franchise is based on is focused on one character?

    Even with characters like M, Q, and Moneypenny - I just can't see how it could work.
  • DragonpolDragonpol Writer @ http://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    edited May 10 Posts: 14,958
    mtm wrote: »
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    M_Balje wrote: »

    Another Bond movie take place in VS or go to Ireland, Cypres.

    Cyprus is a good thought: interesting political backdrop too.

    Further to Pierce2Daniel's point about the Instagram generation, I wonder if Matera is the sort of destination we can expect to see more of i.e. slightly less well-known but extremely photogenic locations which Bond can sort of 'claim' onscreen.

    In that regard Eon could consider adapting in some way Raymond Benson's second Bond continuation novel The Facts of Death (1998). The novel's plot deals with Cyprus, Turkey and the UK from a geopolitical standpoint.

    I probably wouldn't, because it's fairly terrible! :D

    It's been a long time since I last read it but I remember it being a decent enough plot and Bond novel in general. It could still be used as a starting point for a new Bond film plot.
  • Posts: 4,430
    I know its hard to state within the forum but not all movie goers relate directly to Bond's character. As we have seen within other universes, it is possible to have other central characters/heroes who are very different in their own characteristics and, therefore, attract a different fan base and also have different tones. Just the idea of mentioning fanbase, cultural change, demgraphics etc will make some Bond fans "turn off" but one way to ensure that Bond himself can stay the same but MI6 to remain contemporary is to go down the universe route. A georgeous black female double O agent? why not? (other than "it's not Bond")

    Re the risks: to turn that on its head, the risks by not embracing a wider universe with different range of characters is that the franchise refuses to update and stuggles to keep up with it's competitors. Risk can work in both directions.

    Of course, the execution is another issue. Dont get me wrong, it could be a stinker. But so could any movie. But the concept is sound IMHO

    PS re the lack of original material, TBH, I think thats just push back based on tradition. How many movie fans know or care about the original Avengers written material? around the same as that who care about the original Bond books?
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited May 10 Posts: 8,787
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    M_Balje wrote: »

    Another Bond movie take place in VS or go to Ireland, Cypres.

    Cyprus is a good thought: interesting political backdrop too.

    Further to Pierce2Daniel's point about the Instagram generation, I wonder if Matera is the sort of destination we can expect to see more of i.e. slightly less well-known but extremely photogenic locations which Bond can sort of 'claim' onscreen.

    In that regard Eon could consider adapting in some way Raymond Benson's second Bond continuation novel The Facts of Death (1998). The novel's plot deals with Cyprus, Turkey and the UK from a geopolitical standpoint.

    I probably wouldn't, because it's fairly terrible! :D

    It's been a long time since I last read it but I remember it being a decent enough plot and Bond novel in general. It could still be used as a starting point for a new Bond film plot.

    I tried reading it again about two years ago and I had to give up, it’s absolutely dreadful stuff- there’s a car chase where it really literally is just Bond pushing buttons. The baddies are a secret society who worship Pythagoras and triangles: there’s really nothing worth keeping there.
  • Posts: 566
    Although I'm not sure whether a Facts of Death adaptation would be particularly interesting, as I've never been sensitive to this plot around Pythagoras, I really like the starting point of the novel with Bond and the current M being invited to Sir Miles Messervy's dinner party. As I said before, I find that the Craig era was really self-contained and never had the desire to build a world around its iteration of Bond; a good way to distance the new Bond from what preceded would be precisely to take the opposite view and introduce the audience to a fully established world of espionage.

    It will of course depend on whether Craig's supporting cast returns in Bond 26, but in the case it doesn't, it might be relevant and original to see Bond interacting with a new M (as in Goldeneye in a way) and while visiting his former superior. This could just be the occasion to bring Ralph Fiennes back as he expressed his desire to continue to be part of the series. Therefore, using Benson's situation, and why not make it the starting point of the story as in Facts of Death, albeit taking another direction, could be a bright idea.
  • DragonpolDragonpol Writer @ http://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    edited May 10 Posts: 14,958
    mtm wrote: »
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    M_Balje wrote: »

    Another Bond movie take place in VS or go to Ireland, Cypres.

    Cyprus is a good thought: interesting political backdrop too.

    Further to Pierce2Daniel's point about the Instagram generation, I wonder if Matera is the sort of destination we can expect to see more of i.e. slightly less well-known but extremely photogenic locations which Bond can sort of 'claim' onscreen.

    In that regard Eon could consider adapting in some way Raymond Benson's second Bond continuation novel The Facts of Death (1998). The novel's plot deals with Cyprus, Turkey and the UK from a geopolitical standpoint.

    I probably wouldn't, because it's fairly terrible! :D

    It's been a long time since I last read it but I remember it being a decent enough plot and Bond novel in general. It could still be used as a starting point for a new Bond film plot.

    I tried reading it again about two years ago and I had to give up, it’s absolutely dreadful stuff- there’s a car chase where it really literally is just Bond pushing buttons. The baddies are a secret society who worship Pythagoras and triangles: there’s really nothing worth keeping there.

    I've not read it since I bought it in 1999 but I remember being impressed with the villain Konstantin Romanos and his organisation Decada which was like a trial run by Benson for the Union which first appeared in his next novel, High Time to Kill (1999). Granted, the Benson novels did tend to ape the sort of gadgets in cars that were featuring in the Brosnan Bond films at the time and in some of the earlier films. The brief from Glidrose was to bring the books in line with the current films with having a female M etc. so Benson was merely following that creative directive through in his Bond novels. In fact the groundwork towards that position had even started with the preceding John Gardner novels as the end of his last book Cold (1996) saw Bond about to go to meet the new female M after the retirement of the ailing Sir Miles Messervy.

    If The Facts of Death were to be used at all (a big "if" I would imagine given the past history of the Bond continuations and Eon) then it would most likely only be adapted in part with original material making up the rest of the script. I don't think a full adaptation of any Bond continuation novel is really on the cards at the minute, especially while Michael G. Wilson is at helm. The Facts of Death (or any other continuation novel for that matter) could also be used, as @Herr_Stockmann suggests above, as a creative springboard should the writers find themselves between a rock and a hard place. In fact, it was just that type of creative bind during the writing of Spectre that led to the decision to adapt the torture scene from Colonel Sun when other original ideas weren't felt to be working in the scene between Blofeld and Bond.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited May 10 Posts: 8,787
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    M_Balje wrote: »

    Another Bond movie take place in VS or go to Ireland, Cypres.

    Cyprus is a good thought: interesting political backdrop too.

    Further to Pierce2Daniel's point about the Instagram generation, I wonder if Matera is the sort of destination we can expect to see more of i.e. slightly less well-known but extremely photogenic locations which Bond can sort of 'claim' onscreen.

    In that regard Eon could consider adapting in some way Raymond Benson's second Bond continuation novel The Facts of Death (1998). The novel's plot deals with Cyprus, Turkey and the UK from a geopolitical standpoint.

    I probably wouldn't, because it's fairly terrible! :D

    It's been a long time since I last read it but I remember it being a decent enough plot and Bond novel in general. It could still be used as a starting point for a new Bond film plot.

    I tried reading it again about two years ago and I had to give up, it’s absolutely dreadful stuff- there’s a car chase where it really literally is just Bond pushing buttons. The baddies are a secret society who worship Pythagoras and triangles: there’s really nothing worth keeping there.

    I've not read it since I bought it in 1999 but I remember being impressed with the villain Konstantin Romanos and his organisation Decada which was like a trial run by Benson for the Union which first appeared in his next novel, High Time to Kill (1999). Granted, the Benson novels did tend to ape the sort of gadgets in cars that were featuring in the Brosnan Bond films at the time and in some of the earlier films. The brief from Glidrose was to bring the books in line with the current films with having a female M etc. so Benson was merely following that creative directive through in his Bond novels.

    Well no; it’s not the presence of gadgets which makes it bad: it’s that it’s extremely badly written. The problem is not that he was following their creative directive, the problem was that he was just a terrible writer.

    Going to the old M’s place for dinner is fine (although not exactly fascinating or hugely exciting), but if that made it into a film we’d just get lots of people complaining about ‘Scooby gangs’ and Bond not being on his own enough etc.
  • DragonpolDragonpol Writer @ http://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    edited May 10 Posts: 14,958
    mtm wrote: »
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    M_Balje wrote: »

    Another Bond movie take place in VS or go to Ireland, Cypres.

    Cyprus is a good thought: interesting political backdrop too.

    Further to Pierce2Daniel's point about the Instagram generation, I wonder if Matera is the sort of destination we can expect to see more of i.e. slightly less well-known but extremely photogenic locations which Bond can sort of 'claim' onscreen.

    In that regard Eon could consider adapting in some way Raymond Benson's second Bond continuation novel The Facts of Death (1998). The novel's plot deals with Cyprus, Turkey and the UK from a geopolitical standpoint.

    I probably wouldn't, because it's fairly terrible! :D

    It's been a long time since I last read it but I remember it being a decent enough plot and Bond novel in general. It could still be used as a starting point for a new Bond film plot.

    I tried reading it again about two years ago and I had to give up, it’s absolutely dreadful stuff- there’s a car chase where it really literally is just Bond pushing buttons. The baddies are a secret society who worship Pythagoras and triangles: there’s really nothing worth keeping there.

    I've not read it since I bought it in 1999 but I remember being impressed with the villain Konstantin Romanos and his organisation Decada which was like a trial run by Benson for the Union which first appeared in his next novel, High Time to Kill (1999). Granted, the Benson novels did tend to ape the sort of gadgets in cars that were featuring in the Brosnan Bond films at the time and in some of the earlier films. The brief from Glidrose was to bring the books in line with the current films with having a female M etc. so Benson was merely following that creative directive through in his Bond novels.

    Well no; it’s not the presence of gadgets which makes it bad: it’s that it’s extremely badly written. The problem is not that he was following their creative directive, the problem was that he was just a terrible writer.

    Going to the old M’s place for dinner is fine (although not exactly fascinating or hugely exciting), but if that made it into a film we’d just get lots of people complaining about ‘Scooby gangs’ and Bond not being on his own enough etc.

    Well, that's fair enough. I know Benson doesn't have a huge amount of fans in the online Bond community but I thought his books were passable for what they were. However, he wasn't really a writer and the Bond novels were his first works of fiction. He has went on to write his own fiction outside of Bond and has much more experience as a writer now. I'm much more a fan of Gardner myself who was a seasoned spy novelist but I don't feel the need to be unkind about Benson either. I know his Bond novels weren't everyone's cup of tea and criticism of him is to be expected. That said, he has his fanbase out there too just like any other Bond continuation author.
  • edited May 11 Posts: 566
    mtm wrote: »
    Going to the old M’s place for dinner is fine (although not exactly fascinating or hugely exciting), but if that made it into a film we’d just get lots of people complaining about ‘Scooby gangs’ and Bond not being on his own enough etc.

    I don't know... People spoke about ‘Scooby gang’ because Q and Moneypenny were on the field and played an active role in solving the mission, rather than being secondary characters confined to a reduced appearance at the MI6 HQ. Begin a story with a sequence taking place at a dinner party attended by both the current and former M, serving as a starting point to the plot by leading Bond on a mission somewhere in a foreign country would be something radically different (as long as neither M takes part in the mission of course). I don't see why people would complain.
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