Bond 25 Production Diary

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Comments

  • mcdonbbmcdonbb deep in the Heart of Texas
    Posts: 4,119
    bondjames wrote: »
    jake24 wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    I thought he was given his chance (with a plot very much like SF actually). It was called TWINE.

    Words cannot describe my disappointment with that film. Mediocre is a compliment.

    He didn't do himself any favours with his dramatic performance there imho. In a way, it may have necessitated DAD, because EON perhaps realized the limitations of their man and decided to 'ham' it up for the next one.

    I was very disappointed with TWINE too back then and still find it one of the weakest of the franchise.
    But Brosnan's performance had nothing to do, in fact it's the only thing (besides the PTS) that I really find terrific.
    Apted failed miserably with TWINE, he clearly was wrong for Bond. And the script...well...typical P+W level.

    There are certain key moments in that film that I find very troubling. Sadly, they are all somewhat dramatic acting moments from Pierce, and are seared indelibly into my mind whenever I think of this disappointing effort:

    1. infamous sympathetic screen touch:
    The-World-is-not-Enough-0264.jpg

    2. knew where to hurt me:
    The-World-is-not-Enough-0752.jpg

    3. the infamous "huh" moment (you can feel the brain slowly working here):
    The-World-is-not-Enough-0676.jpg

    4. pain face:
    The-World-is-not-Enough-1367.jpg
    No offence, but none of these things you listed here are enough to bring even a mediocre film down to the level of which you described was TWINE.

    None taken, and that's perhaps because I've actually held back in my opinion of this film and the acting by all concerned, especially the lead.

    If I really said what I felt, that's when I would be the one causing offence. I have too much respect for some members here who idolize the man and who inexplicably like this effort.

    I am glad we have DC in the title role now, when it comes to drama he knows how to do it. I've seen a little too much of that lately so I can understand how some feel negatively about that too, but in my mind he is clearly the better actor for dramatic work. Someone mentioned Brosnan as being superior in this regard. I personally disagree.

    I agree too ...but I still enjoyed Brosnan a great deal. He brought back old and brought in new fans to the series.

    TWINE though was very disappointing to me. I think they learned from that and got it right with SF but at the time I expected so much more from Apted.

  • jake24jake24 Sitting at your desk, kissing your lover, eating supper with your familyModerator
    Posts: 9,290
    I'll always have a soft spot for Brosnan. He, like the other actors brought something undeniably unique and fresh to the role.
  • Posts: 119
    There's absolutely nothing wrong with Brosnan. He was my entry point to the franchise from stumbling onto GoldenEye 64 at age 9. As for Craig, I love his films but still not sold on him as Bond. GoldenEye aside, it's the opposite for Brosnan. Loath his films but love him as Bond.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited October 2015 Posts: 23,883
    My comments and views don't pertain to Brosnan. They pertain specifically to Brosnan's dramatic acting in TWINE. I was also commenting in relation to his dramatic acting capabilities in relation/comparison to Daniel Craig while inhabiting the role, character and persona of James Bond.
  • doubleoegodoubleoego #LightWork
    Posts: 11,090

    jake24 wrote: »
    I'll always have a soft spot for Brosnan. He, like the other actors brought something undeniably unique and fresh to the role.

    An example being?
  • WalecsWalecs On Her Majesty's Secret Service
    Posts: 2,132
    km16 wrote: »
    The-World-is-not-Enough-0676.jpg
    I will kill you know.

    The-World-is-not-Enough-1367.jpg

    Die already, so I can kiss you!

    This reminds me of a show my wife watches. He'd be perfect for Once Upon A Time. Hell, he's already choking out Rumpelstiltskin in that one still. He'd fit right in.

    This is unfair for Brosnan. OUAT features some if the worst acting I've ever seen (except for Robert Carlyle, Lana Parilla and Rebecca Mader); comparing people like Jennifer Morrison or Jared Gilmore to Brosnan is an insult.
  • edited October 2015 Posts: 441
    Shardlake wrote: »
    Mark my words whoever comes on board next they won't be signing on to become just a one dimensional play boy, the next actor that signs on will be doing it because of what Daniel Craig as bought to the role. Anyone that thinks different is just too blinded by their either blatant DC hate or those that hide behind it claiming they don't dislike him but their posts are loaded with subtle pot shots at his era.

    That's certainly the dilemma for EON. They will want a decent enough contrast to Craig but not lose an approach that has won them more critical favour.

    When Brosnan first debuted there was a fair bit of dismissal of the seriousness of the Dalton films from some quarters but the subsequent success of CR and SF has shown that the 'Brosnan way' isn't the only route the series can go down in order to survive.
    @bondjames

    I can find you plenty of screen-shots of Craig in his Bond movies that are quite unflattering. That's no achievement.

    Criag haters would say he always looks unflattering. It's the ill-judged OTT facial expressions we got from Brosnan at conveying drama.
  • BondJasonBond006BondJasonBond006 on fb and ajb
    edited October 2015 Posts: 9,029
    Ha, ha, this is a blast.

    As soon as there is some praise for Brosnan from various members, the usual suspects come out to put anyone down who does so. Hilarious and so predictable.

    =)) so glad there are smilies for those moments.
  • ShardlakeShardlake Leeds, West Yorkshire, England
    Posts: 3,215
    Brosnan might look more like the classical vision of what most think Bond looks like, I'll give his fans that but trying to say he's better at dramatic acting than Craig is just ridiculous, Craig acts Brosnan off the screen in all of his scenes.

    At least most the usual suspects are open about their dislike of PB unlike those who hide behind their clear dislike of Craig BJB006 with their I don't mind him but I'll slag him off at any opportunity I get agenda.

    You are as big a trouble maker as those you level the criticism at.
  • Posts: 119
    Walecs wrote: »
    km16 wrote: »
    The-World-is-not-Enough-0676.jpg
    I will kill you know.

    The-World-is-not-Enough-1367.jpg

    Die already, so I can kiss you!

    This reminds me of a show my wife watches. He'd be perfect for Once Upon A Time. Hell, he's already choking out Rumpelstiltskin in that one still. He'd fit right in.

    This is unfair for Brosnan. OUAT features some if the worst acting I've ever seen (except for Robert Carlyle, Lana Parilla and Rebecca Mader); comparing people like Jennifer Morrison or Jared Gilmore to Brosnan is an insult.

    See my last post. Wasn't a knock at all, just a joke.
  • MurdockMurdock Mr. 2000
    Posts: 15,673
    Craig coming back or leaving turning into yet another Brosnan bash? What a Joke. TWINE was awesome. Not as good as GoldenEye but a great film. None of those pictured moments hurt the film. People claim it's some soap opera but I've seen sappier moments in earlier Bond films. It was Brosnan's OHMSS. It's a fine film. This one picture says everything.
    twine+jfb.jpg
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited October 2015 Posts: 23,883
    Murdock wrote: »
    twine+jfb.jpg

    Different strokes for different folks then. I know you like it @Murdock, but from my perspective, that scene and photo you posted is an example of the overacting I'm referring to that was all over the place in this film.

    Again, different strokes......OHMSS?.....I think not personally. Not even SF, which it is much closer to.
  • SirHilaryBraySirHilaryBray Scotland
    Posts: 2,138
    Shardlake wrote: »
    Brosnan might look more like the classical vision of what most think Bond looks like, I'll give his fans that but trying to say he's better at dramatic acting than Craig is just ridiculous, Craig acts Brosnan off the screen in all of his scenes.

    At least most the usual suspects are open about their dislike of PB unlike those who hide behind their clear dislike of Craig BJB006 with their I don't mind him but I'll slag him off at any opportunity I get agenda.

    You are as big a trouble maker as those you level the criticism at.

    =D> +1
  • MurdockMurdock Mr. 2000
    Posts: 15,673
    Still doesn't change the fact the thread has derailed into another Brosnan Bash. :))
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited October 2015 Posts: 23,883
    Murdock wrote: »
    Still doesn't change the fact the thread has derailed into another Brosnan Bash. :))

    Fair enough. Someone laughably made a comment that Brosnan was a better dramatic actor than Craig, and had not been given an opportunity to showcase such skills. I could have either laughed or tried to correct the record. I did the latter. Perhaps I should have just let it rest.

  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe JK ROFLing
    Posts: 6,846
    The Craig huggers are in full force. Battle stations, people.
  • MurdockMurdock Mr. 2000
    Posts: 15,673
    bondjames wrote: »
    Murdock wrote: »
    Still doesn't change the fact the thread has derailed into another Brosnan Bash. :))

    Fair enough. Someone laughably made a comment that Brosnan was a better dramatic actor than Craig, and had not been given an opportunity to showcase such skills. I could have either laughed or tried to correct the record. I did the latter. Perhaps I should have just let it rest.

    That happens here. I tend to overreact when Brosnan gets criticized sometimes. I don't mind people have those opinions on him but they can grate on me. I enjoy all the Bond actors to varying degrees. They all have done their part well for the time. I for example think Dalton over does it more than Brosnan and I could show photos as well, but like you said, different strokes. Tensions are high because of the upcoming film anticipation, once it's out it will be like a pressurized bottle exploding it's cap off. Craig is the better actor sure, but I get more enjoyment from Brosnan's era as that's what I grew up on. No hard feelings. ;)
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited October 2015 Posts: 23,883
    Murdock wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    Murdock wrote: »
    Still doesn't change the fact the thread has derailed into another Brosnan Bash. :))

    Fair enough. Someone laughably made a comment that Brosnan was a better dramatic actor than Craig, and had not been given an opportunity to showcase such skills. I could have either laughed or tried to correct the record. I did the latter. Perhaps I should have just let it rest.

    That happens here. I tend to overreact when Brosnan gets criticized sometimes. I don't mind people have those opinions on him but they can grate on me. I enjoy all the Bond actors to varying degrees. They all have done their part well for the time. I for example think Dalton over does it more than Brosnan and I could show photos as well, but like you said, different strokes. Tensions are high because of the upcoming film anticipation, once it's out it will be like a pressurized bottle exploding it's cap off. Craig is the better actor sure, but I get more enjoyment from Brosnan's era as that's what I grew up on. No hard feelings. ;)

    I agree with you on that. I enjoyed 3 of Brosnan's films a lot more than I expected when I did my recent Bondathon. They are all fun......except for...the one in question, for me..

    True, Brosnan does get bashed a lot. I noticed in my Bondathon that Dalton overacts quite a bit in his films too, more so than the others....I did not notice it before until I did the back to back viewings. Brosnan went up in my estimation (although still suffers) and Dalton declined.
  • jake24jake24 Sitting at your desk, kissing your lover, eating supper with your familyModerator
    Posts: 9,290
    Has this thread turned into a thread solely for discussing Craig future?
  • BondJasonBond006BondJasonBond006 on fb and ajb
    Posts: 9,029
    bondjames wrote: »
    Murdock wrote: »
    Still doesn't change the fact the thread has derailed into another Brosnan Bash. :))

    Fair enough. Someone laughably made a comment that Brosnan was a better dramatic actor than Craig, and had not been given an opportunity to showcase such skills. I could have either laughed or tried to correct the record. I did the latter. Perhaps I should have just let it rest.

    I have to correct you on who or what started this "war".

    "Let me guess your favourite Bond is Brosnan and Bond should have dark hair and be tall and speak like Stephen Fry.. a way and bile yer head."

    This was the reply that initially started it by belittling someone who had an opinion that didn't suit that poster. Again from someone who heavily defends Craig and obviously can't stand Brosnan and uses him to insult other people.

    It's always the same. But I admit finding it more amusing than angering these days.
    It does kill the time till that bloody Bond movie finally hits the theatre :))
  • doubleoegodoubleoego #LightWork
    Posts: 11,090
    Shardlake wrote: »
    Brosnan might look more like the classical vision of what most think Bond looks like, I'll give his fans that but trying to say he's better at dramatic acting than Craig is just ridiculous, Craig acts Brosnan off the screen in all of his scenes.

    At least most the usual suspects are open about their dislike of PB unlike those who hide behind their clear dislike of Craig BJB006 with their I don't mind him but I'll slag him off at any opportunity I get agenda.

    You are as big a trouble maker as those you level the criticism at.

    QFT.
  • BondJasonBond006BondJasonBond006 on fb and ajb
    Posts: 9,029
    doubleoego wrote: »
    Shardlake wrote: »
    Brosnan might look more like the classical vision of what most think Bond looks like, I'll give his fans that but trying to say he's better at dramatic acting than Craig is just ridiculous, Craig acts Brosnan off the screen in all of his scenes.

    At least most the usual suspects are open about their dislike of PB unlike those who hide behind their clear dislike of Craig BJB006 with their I don't mind him but I'll slag him off at any opportunity I get agenda.

    You are as big a trouble maker as those you level the criticism at.

    QFT.

    You two should marry and happily live twice :))
  • NicNacNicNac Moderator
    Posts: 6,636
    At the time - the mid 90s there was no viable alternative. He was far and away the best option, the only real choice. We can all look back with the benefit of hindsight and make bold and sweeping statements, but at the time Brosnan ticked every box. He was popular, good looking and (sort of) British. And when he came on board Bond was popular and relevant again.

    Bond had been slowly losing its appeal in the 80s. It needed a real shot in the arm - like him or loathe him Brosnan was the genuine answer. And when the series wavered again when DAD came out Eon had to make another decision. This one also worked, but had they stuck with Brosnan for another film (his 5th), it would have been successful because there was nothing to suggest Brosnan himself was losing his appeal.
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 9,794
    NicNac wrote: »
    At the time - the mid 90s there was no viable alternative. He was far and away the best option, the only real choice. We can all look back with the benefit of hindsight and make bold and sweeping statements, but at the time Brosnan ticked every box. He was popular, good looking and (sort of) British. And when he came on board Bond was popular and relevant again.

    Bond had been slowly losing its appeal in the 80s. It needed a real shot in the arm - like him or loathe him Brosnan was the genuine answer. And when the series wavered again when DAD came out Eon had to make another decision. This one also worked, but had they stuck with Brosnan for another film (his 5th), it would have been successful because there was nothing to suggest Brosnan himself was losing his appeal.

    Very true. He's not been Bond (on screen) for 13 years, but he is certainly still held in high esteem by many I know. Everybody likes their Bond different, it's a minority who would pitch him against the Fleming blueprint, while a good portion just see him as the visual embodiment of what Bond 'is'. He is certainly the whipping boy for the intelligentsia, which is a shame as a good portion of cinematic Bond is beautiful nonsense and the Brosnan films execute that well.
  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe JK ROFLing
    Posts: 6,846
    RC7 wrote: »
    NicNac wrote: »
    At the time - the mid 90s there was no viable alternative. He was far and away the best option, the only real choice. We can all look back with the benefit of hindsight and make bold and sweeping statements, but at the time Brosnan ticked every box. He was popular, good looking and (sort of) British. And when he came on board Bond was popular and relevant again.

    Bond had been slowly losing its appeal in the 80s. It needed a real shot in the arm - like him or loathe him Brosnan was the genuine answer. And when the series wavered again when DAD came out Eon had to make another decision. This one also worked, but had they stuck with Brosnan for another film (his 5th), it would have been successful because there was nothing to suggest Brosnan himself was losing his appeal.

    Very true. He's not been Bond (on screen) for 13 years, but he is certainly still held in high esteem by many I know. Everybody likes their Bond different, it's a minority who would pitch him against the Fleming blueprint, while a good portion just see him as the visual embodiment of what Bond 'is'. He is certainly the whipping boy for the intelligentsia, which is a shame as a good portion of cinematic Bond is beautiful nonsense and the Brosnan films execute that well.

    The intelligentsia are a bunch of idiots, pardon my french. Those people's opinion shouldn't impact anyone. They ruined poetry for the masses, be sure they will ruin Bond too.
  • AntiLocqueBrakesAntiLocqueBrakes The edge
    Posts: 489
    jake24 wrote: »
    Has this thread turned into a thread solely for discussing Craig future?

    Whatever this thread is…it's not that?
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited October 2015 Posts: 23,883
    NicNac wrote: »
    At the time - the mid 90s there was no viable alternative. He was far and away the best option, the only real choice. We can all look back with the benefit of hindsight and make bold and sweeping statements, but at the time Brosnan ticked every box. He was popular, good looking and (sort of) British. And when he came on board Bond was popular and relevant again.

    Bond had been slowly losing its appeal in the 80s. It needed a real shot in the arm - like him or loathe him Brosnan was the genuine answer. And when the series wavered again when DAD came out Eon had to make another decision. This one also worked, but had they stuck with Brosnan for another film (his 5th), it would have been successful because there was nothing to suggest Brosnan himself was losing his appeal.

    Brosnan was nothing if not popular. I'm quite certain Dalton in the 90's would have finished the series off (it almost did in the 80's). As we know, the public didn't take to Dalton in the US and that was a big portion of the market.

    Brosnan was imho a compensatory reaction to Dalton's relative unpopularity and was hired to fill the huge void left by Moore's (still felt even in the 90's) departure. I think Craig was a compensatory reaction to Brosnan as well (......but paradoxically, has also been highly popular with the public).

    Brosnan was definitely likeable and unoffensive in the role, although it's always unusual to watch his films now because he always appears less British than the villains (so I sometimes feel like I'm watching a generic American action film when I watch any Brosnan movie outside of GE).

    It was the comment earlier about Brosnan being a superb dramatic actor (or something to that effect) who had not been given a chance to demonstrate his thespian skills that I find absurd however. He was given far more opportunity to do that than Connery/Moore or even Dalton on account of the direction/tangent some of his films took (apparently it's a direction EON wanted to go in because DC's tenure has emphasized this).. It definitely wasn't his strong suit however (far from it) and to suggest otherwise is stretching it from his fanboys imho.

    I don't think anybody is seriously doubting his popularity however. Anyone who does is being unfairly critical.
  • SirHilaryBraySirHilaryBray Scotland
    Posts: 2,138
    The Craig huggers are in full force. Battle stations, people.

    if you not a Dan Fan, your a Fan Dan! =))
  • SirHilaryBraySirHilaryBray Scotland
    Posts: 2,138
    My favourite Brosnan movie was Mrs Doubtfire., that says all it has to about what I though of him as Bond.
  • suavejmfsuavejmf England
    Posts: 3,829
    Bean should have been Bond instead.

    No, Mr Bean. I expect you to die.

    Agreed. Bean would have been good.
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