1980's - The Forgotten Decade

RogueThunderball

I recently watched all the Bond films from the 80's and realized what a great decade it is for Bond. While FYEO and AVTAK aren't favorites of mine, I really enjoyed watching them during my most recent viewings. I think both of those films, while flawed in some ways, are really solid entries. Then there is OP, TLD, and LTK which are all in my top ten and what I would classify as "really good" or "great" entries. So why does this decade seem to not get as much recognition as it deserves? Do you think this era is vastly underrated, as I do?

BAIN123

I've recently found a new appreciation for OP and its probably my favourite 80s Bond film.

Agreed RT. While the 80s weren't perfect they had some strong points. Quality wise they were better than most of the 70s and the 90s.

RogueThunderball

BAIN123 said:
Quality wise they were better than most of the 70s and the 90s.

I am a strong Brosnan supporter and I'll always love his films, but I definitely think the quality is better in the 80's than the 70's for sure.

Getafix

BAIN123 said:
I've recently found a new appreciation for OP and its probably my favourite 80s Bond film.

Agreed RT. While the 80s weren't perfect they had some strong points. Quality wise they were better than most of the 70s and the 90s.

Never thought I'd hear you say that! But I totally agree. FYEO and OP are good solid entries, as are TLD and (to a lesser extent) LTK. The 80s were actually a high point in many ways. There was a formula in place but they knew how to constantly rework it. Plus in Rog and Dalts the series was blessed with two of its finest actors.

Kerim

I would argue that the 80s were the second best decade in the Bond franchise. During the 80s, there were four good to great Bond films and AVTAK.

Baltimore_007

only For Your Eyes Only and The Living Daylights have any right to claim 'classic Bond' in the 1980s, Octopussy does come close but is simply left handicapped by an overuse of ill advised humor and Bond being too old for the part

The 1970s are without question, the best Bond decade for me, if you can omit the poor Diamonds from it, we have four other standout releases, my own favorite Live and Let Die, the energetic Golden Gun, the entertaining The Spy Who Loved Me, and last but not least the thrill ride of Moonraker, it's hands down best decade for Bond

fire_and_ice

Watched OP and FYEO again this week, both movie's have flaws though always find them entertaining. Admittedly i am a big fan of roger moore not exclusively as bond. moore is a very likeable character and that allows me to get by how ludicrous his films are at times.

Arsenal02071

FYEO is one of my top 5 favourites. Greatly underrated in my opinion. On the flip side I don't understand why Octopussy is overrated a bit much in my opinion.

w2bond

I like the 80s too. I'm currently in the middle (literally) of my marathon, but currently most of them are in my top 10, and TLD/LTK are top 5.

The problem is that they are less grand and unique in the scheme of things. For example, however bad TMWTGG may be, people know about the Golden Gun whether they've watched the movie or not. Gilbert's films have the grand sets, the Lotus, Jaws that the public instantly recognises.

licensetoforum

Dalton being unpopular kind of hurt the decade, but for me her perfected it.

sirseanisbond

After Moonraker in 79, the series had to take a break. Things had been too over-hyped once you had Bond in space. As a result, FYEO and Octopussy were natural ways to make Bond less exaggerated, and yet keep him relevant in the ongoing Cold War, which heated up slightly in the early 80’s. By the mid to late 80’s however, it was clear that the Cold War was on the way out, as was Roger, and that lead to AVTAK, which is bar-nun, the worst Bond movie ever made. That movie alone turned people off, I’m sure of it, and the fact that Tim wasn’t very sensational himself, or that his films tried to make do with realistic plots which lacked the Bond sparkle, really made people tune out Bond for a whole decade.

00Beast

Yes, the '80s is definitely under-rated, as is the '90s. The time period of 1981 (FYEO) up until 1999 (TWINE) is my idea of the Golden Bond Era, no doubt about it. FYEO, OP, AVTAK, TLD, LTK, GE, TND, and TWINE are all in my top ten if I remember correctly, so that about sums up my thoughts!

Chuck

I've always enjoyed the Bond films of the 1980s and would say that it might even rank as my favorite decade for the series. The 80s gave me my favorite Bond (Dalton) and features a number of films that I rate very highly (FYEO, OP, TLD, and LTK). I also quite enjoy AVTAK, even if it doesn't quite measure up to the rest of the films released in the decade.

The 80s is the only decade about which I can say that I enjoyed all of the films, while the rest of the decades have at least one film that I don't particularly enjoy.

RogueThunderball

00Beast said:
Yes, the '80s is definitely under-rated, as is the '90s. The time period of 1981 (FYEO) up until 1999 (TWINE) is my idea of the Golden Bond Era, no doubt about it.

We think alike. After the first four Connery films, the 1981-1999 era is the best twenty years of Bond, imo. The quality of films is just outstanding. It is hard for me to nail down but there is just something about these films that resonates with me. I watch the films in this period more often than any other in the series.

actonsteve

00Beast said:
Yes, the '80s is definitely under-rated, as is the '90s. The time period of 1981 (FYEO) up until 1999 (TWINE) is my idea of the Golden Bond Era, no doubt about it. FYEO, OP, AVTAK, TLD, LTK, GE, TND, and TWINE are all in my top ten if I remember correctly, so that about sums up my thoughts!

Please do not lump the nineties trash in with the eighties. The eighties were something special. Cubby was still at the helm and we had some good solid stories with the Cold War in the background giving it spice.

Characterisation came back in the eighties with three dimensional writing for Melina Havelock, Kara Milovy, Franz Sanchez and James Bond. The nineties went back to seventies cartooon characters. With the eighties you had character motivation all the way through, superb stunts that didnt rely on cgi and the rock solid talents of Cubby Broccoli, Richard Maibaum, Peter Lamont and especially John Barry.

The last gasp of greatness until 2006 came along.

haserot

if you put the Bond films of the 70s against the Bond films of the 80s... i think the 80s win out...

Diamonds Are Forever (1971)
Live And Let Die (1973)
The Man With The Golden Gun (1974)
The Spy Who Loved Me (1977)
Moonraker (1979)

For Your Eyes Only (1981)
Octopussy (1983)
A View To A Kill (1985)
The Living Daylights (1987)
Licence To Kill (1989)

i think the 80s has the better ratio of good Bond films to bad.

BAIN123

actonsteve said:

00Beast said:
Yes, the '80s is definitely under-rated, as is the '90s. The time period of 1981 (FYEO) !

Please do not lump the nineties trash in with the eighties.

Dammit @actonsteve :p

While most of the 90s weren't that great we still had some good and (dare I say it inspired) pieces of casting including Robbie Coltrane, Vincent Schiavelli, Sean Bean (I know you don't like him though), Godfried John, Isabella Scoropco (my favourite Bond girl), Famke Janssen, Samantha Bond, Joe Don Baker, Judi Dench as M and Denise Richards.

The 80s had its weaknesses. Good supporting characters played by average actors like Tania Roberts and Carole Boquet (was watching FYEO yesterday - she's pretty wooden). I know people are going to jump on the bandwagon and say Brosnan falls into that same category but he was better than either of those 2 IMO.

TheWizardOfIce

Baltimore_007 said:
the energetic Golden Gun

I dread to think how you define soporific.

The 80s only rivalled by the 60s for me. FYEO, OP and TLD are all verging on classic. LTK is decent and AVTAK is quite as bad as its painted.

As for the 70s DAF and TMWTGG are plain poor. LALD is average. TSWLM and MR are terrific fun and classic Rog, if not classic Bond.

90s are solid more than anything else. GE is approach classic status due quite a lot of iconic moments. TND is by the numbers but very slick and TWINE the same but slightly less slick.

The biggest tragedy is that although we have lost Maibaum we still have MGW who wrote all of the 80s films - so why isnt he writing now instead of letting P&W churn out their putrid garbage?

BAIN123

I watched TND the other week and, while it's very light-weight, I enjoyed it. The action though excessive is fun.

The HALO jump is fantastic and often forgotten about when people talk about stunts in Bond.

Oh yeah and KD Lang.

There was SOME good in the 90s.

actonsteve

BAIN123 said:
[q
Dammit @actonsteve :p

While most of the 90s weren't that great we still had some good and (dare I say it inspired) pieces of casting including Robbie Coltrane, Vincent Schiavelli, Sean Bean (I know you don't like him though), Godfried John, Isabella Scoropco (my favourite Bond girl), Famke Janssen, Samantha Bond, Joe Don Baker, Judi Dench as M and Denise Richards.

The 80s had its weaknesses. Good supporting characters played by average actors like Tania Roberts and Carole Boquet (was watching FYEO yesterday - she's pretty wooden). I know people are going to jump on the bandwagon and say Brosnan falls into that same category but he was better than either of those 2 IMO.

I am not talking about actors but the quality of the films themselves.

You say Tanya Roberts I throw in Teri Hatcher. Bouquet was good. There is a shot when her parents are first murdered where there is a close up on her green eyes and she conveys pain, confusion, anger, surprise and shock all in one moment. Thats good acting.

But the nineties Bonds to me were retreads (especially TND) although the same accusatiion could be thrown at AVTAK.

The others had original stories - a circus train with an atom bomb, a chase around the Med after a mcguffin, a diamond/heroin scheme with Afghan rebels, an original revenge plot which hadn't been done before. And they had a rock solid production team behind them who knew how to make exciting tales.

And I agree with you about MGW. Why doesnt he come back?

identigraph

I love the 80's, very underrated in my opinion, FYEO, OP and LTK are all superb in my opinion, TLD and AVTAK are also decent, with Rog and Timbo there is a good mix of the lighter and darker sides of the character.

BAIN123

actonsteve said:

BAIN123 said:
[q
Dammit @actonsteve :p

While most of the 90s weren't that great we still had some good and (dare I say it inspired) pieces of casting including Robbie Coltrane, Vincent Schiavelli, Sean Bean (I know you don't like him though), Godfried John, Isabella Scoropco (my favourite Bond girl), Famke Janssen, Samantha Bond, Joe Don Baker, Judi Dench as M and Denise Richards.

The 80s had its weaknesses. Good supporting characters played by average actors like Tania Roberts and Carole Boquet (was watching FYEO yesterday - she's pretty wooden). I know people are going to jump on the bandwagon and say Brosnan falls into that same category but he was better than either of those 2 IMO.

I am not talking about actors but the quality of the films themselves.

Bouquet was good. There is a shot when her parents are first murdered where there is a close up on her green eyes and she conveys pain, confusion, anger, surprise and shock all in one moment. Thats good acting.

Its her flat voice that bugs me.

"Who are you?"

"They killed my parents"

Jesus. |The Terminator might as well be saying that line.

Roger's really good though.

slyfox

For me, the 80's was the 2nd best decade, after the unbeatable 60's.

Out of the five 80's Bond films, AVTAK would be the only one guaranteed to be very low on my rankings. The rest were great.

Let's hope 'the 10's' bring us a long over-due decade of top-quality Bond films.

NicNac

Each decade has it's own definition. The 60s Bonds had style and elegance, the 70s was all about fun and big scale adventure, the 80s was a mixed bag of styles but at least the films were linked by the big, stunt laiden action sequences. In the 90s and beyond Bond films became more techy, M's comfy leather chairs gone forever.

So the 80s had less of an easily defined quality, and it had competition (Indiana Jones predominantly). The series was starting to run out of steam and lose it's way a little. The 6 year gap that followed was welcome and necessary in more ways than one.

Now we can look back and evaluate it clearly and without distraction. It should have been 5 films of a similar nature and quality simply because they all had the same director. But this was a director without his own style, a workman-like, journeyman director whose naivity and lack of an assured touch showed in his handling of FYEO. He relied on the action sequences, and failed to exploit the script's strong points (the pay off when Bond realises who the villain is, when he meets Colombo is tossed away without any dramatic punch). But it has to be expected for one so inexperienced.

In OP he delivers a rather lovely looking, soft focus Bond film, the most exotic and romantic looking Bond since OHMSS. It's probably what he tried to do with FYEO. He managed to get the dramatic scenes right here, which makes it all the more puzzling that AVTAK looked so flat and uninspired.

TLD held together well and was exciting, romantic and dramatic in equal measures. Then LTK seemed pedestrian in comparison.

So, the 80s will be remembered less because the films didn't find a common style, plus Roger was past his sell by date, and Tim is doomed to be the forgotten Bond (more so than George who will be remembered as the once-only Bond).

BAIN123

I agree with you NN. As much as I enjoy the 80s there's something a little tired about them.

After watching OP recently I realised I enjoy it more to FYEO. The story is more memorable, the action is better and the characters stick out more. Then there's View which, despite some good qualities, feels sleepy.

I like Dalton's films but they also seem a bit...tired sometimes. Maybe its because they still have a lot of the same, familiar faces and...meh...cinematography. With LTK there is a sense that things are coming to an end. Maybe it was the "TV movie" look (GE may be drab but at least it had some slick computer rooms and large sets) and the "Bond's going to get even" story.

However, as I said above, the 80s films still have a more "story-based" approach than the 70s and (most of) the 90s and that can only be a good thing. They just don't have the "umph" and freashness of the 60s (IMO of course).

actonsteve

BAIN123 said:
[
Its her flat voice that bugs me.

"Who are you?"

"They killed my parents"

.

Oh dear deary me.

She's just shot an arrow into her parents murderers - what are you expecting her to do? Break into "I will survive" while dancing a jig?

Lets have some context here.

For some of us the eighties Bonds were given a swift kick up the jacksy by Daltons inclusion who electrified the series. Both TLD and LTK were brave stories which took the series in a different direction. The Bonds became adult again after the cartoonery of the seventies.

Regarding casting, acting, stories, editing, music, tension and characterisation - they are head and tale above the era to follow.

BAIN123

No, don't be silly, I was just expecting her to have a bit more emotion in her voice.

Kill was a brave but flawed attempt to take Bond in a new direction. Sadly it almost ended the series.

I like both of Dalton's films - they are good solid flicks - but I really get the sense that "things were coming to an end" watching them now.

actonsteve

BAIN123 said:
No, don't be silly, I was just expecting her to have a bit more emotion in her voice.

Kill was a brave but flawed attempt to take Bond in a new direction. Sadly it almost ended the series.

I like both of Dalton's films - they are good solid flicks - but I really get the sense that "things were coming to an end" watching them now.

I am not being silly. How do you expect her to act after killing someone?

Watching them now, for me, its a real sense of loss that we didn't have anything like that again until 2006. Nothing quite as adult and edgy. Instead we went backwards into cosy dumb onelinerland.

BAIN123

I'll agree with you from TND onwards but you know my views on GE.

Its not just that occasion in FYEO though, its other times too like when she's talking with Moore later on. To me she sounds like she's reading her lines sometimes
I just found CB very robotic in her manner on occasions. Sorry but thats how I feel and I'm not the only person who thinks that either. Moore was very good though (one of his best performances actually).

WVPoef

Kerim said:
I would argue that the 80s were the second best decade in the Bond franchise. During the 80s, there were four good to great Bond films and AVTAK.

I feel the same way.

actonsteve

BAIN123 said:
I'll agree with you from TND onwards but you know my views on GE.

I I'm not the only person who thinks that either.

Well, thats a convincing argument. Thats won me over

:O

She's traumatised. Bond is dealing with a broken woman here. She even cracks up in Greece. A close loving family is destroyed in an instant. Her only purpose is to go after the people who did it and exact revenge. Bond tells her revenge is not the answer as it will destroy abit of her as well. She realises this at the end.

Only at the very end can she relax. Although the shopping spree in Corfu Town has her enjoying herself.

We hadnt had characterisation and writing like this since Tracy in the sixties. And it followed a pattern in the eighties. Even Stacey Sutton had background and motivation.

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