Timothy Dalton or Daniel Craig?

Getafix

thelivingroyale said:

Germanlady said:

thelivingroyale said:

Germanlady said:
Its Easter and so on, but your way of throwing him into our faces gets tiring. I don't see anybody else, not even DC, who is that insisting in not tolerating any other opinion. So - whether this is in earnest or not, please restrain from this atttitude. Its childish and just plein annoying. Thanks and happy Easter.

It's just a bit of fun. There have been people who throw Craig into our faces on other threads. Still, happy Easter.

Excuse me, but I am starting miss the fun factor. I would even start complaining, if it was Craig, whom you handled like that. There is fun and there is fun...

Maybe I've gone a bit OTT with it but this is a Craig vs Dalton thread. And I do tolerate other opinions, I get that you think Craig is better, just like I get that 007RogerMoore and DC think Moore is better. I just think Dalton is better. I'll stop now, but like I said, people have thrown Craig into my face on other threads.

Don't worry Living Royale, germanlady makes a habit of aggressively accusing other people of intolerance or going too far on threads specifically dedicated to discussing daft and amusing subjects like this. As I think I've said before, it's probably best for those who can't deal with a little bit of DC criticism to steer clear of these threads.

Germanlady

Terribly aggressive, indeed. The poor Royale will loose sleep over it... ;)

connerybond

For me:
SC first and always, then: GL, DC, TD, RM, PB...

I would not have put GL after GOD ( a poster collegue's observation about SC), in 1980s, but since then I have watched OHMSS many times, and appreciated how GL who had had no acting experience fitted nicely into Bond role, after GOD left, a very difficult act to follow. TD was a good actor but the Bond role needed some one who was easy going with raised eyebrows at times metaphorically-speaking and TD was not that kind of actor. IMHO, DC has brought back SC's toughness ( I agree with Wilson the co-producer guy), and RM to me was excellent as the Saint in those days- I read Charteris ad Fleming before their novels were filmed, and hence the above ranking..

thelivingroyale

Getafix said:

thelivingroyale said:

Germanlady said:

thelivingroyale said:

Germanlady said:
Its Easter and so on, but your way of throwing him into our faces gets tiring. I don't see anybody else, not even DC, who is that insisting in not tolerating any other opinion. So - whether this is in earnest or not, please restrain from this atttitude. Its childish and just plein annoying. Thanks and happy Easter.

It's just a bit of fun. There have been people who throw Craig into our faces on other threads. Still, happy Easter.

Excuse me, but I am starting miss the fun factor. I would even start complaining, if it was Craig, whom you handled like that. There is fun and there is fun...

Maybe I've gone a bit OTT with it but this is a Craig vs Dalton thread. And I do tolerate other opinions, I get that you think Craig is better, just like I get that 007RogerMoore and DC think Moore is better. I just think Dalton is better. I'll stop now, but like I said, people have thrown Craig into my face on other threads.

Don't worry Living Royale, germanlady makes a habit of aggressively accusing other people of intolerance or going too far on threads specifically dedicated to discussing daft and amusing subjects like this. As I think I've said before, it's probably best for those who can't deal with a little bit of DC criticism to steer clear of these threads.

Exactly. And I think it's unfair how everybody who doesn't like Craig is "being negative" but then when I talk about how good Dalton is I'm "throwing him into everyones faces" To be honest I think she just can't get her head around the fact that Dalton is the better Bond ;)

Germanlady said:
Terribly aggressive, indeed. The poor Royale will loose sleep over it... ;)

I'm sure I will ;)

FromCanadaWithLove

Chuck said:
As much as I like Daniel Craig, I have to give the edge to Dalton. They're close, but I just see Dalton being a bit more in line with Fleming's Bond than I do with Craig. Both are fantastic, though, and perhaps with another film or two I could see Craig claiming the top spot.

Your name is Chuck, and you have Dalton as your photo? Must be a Chuck Season 4 fan? I like you already.

Chuck

FromCanadaWithLove said:

Chuck said:
As much as I like Daniel Craig, I have to give the edge to Dalton. They're close, but I just see Dalton being a bit more in line with Fleming's Bond than I do with Craig. Both are fantastic, though, and perhaps with another film or two I could see Craig claiming the top spot.

Your name is Chuck, and you have Dalton as your photo? Must be a Chuck Season 4 fan? I like you already.

I'm definitely a fan of Season 4, as well as the entire series (save for a few Season 5 episodes ;) ). Been a fan of Dalton even longer, as he's been my favorite Bond dating back to the first time I saw The Living Daylights sometime in the early 1990s, so needless to say I was quite pleased when they announced he was going to guest star on the show. :)

Bounine

My list:
Best Bond: Sean Connery (in Dr No and FRWL as his portrayal of the character is darker. It becomes more light-hearted in the remainder of his Bond films)
2nd: Timothy Dalton
3rd: Daniel Craig (only slightly behind Dalton)
4th: Roger Moore
5th equal: George Lazenby and Pierce Brosnan

If Dr No and FRWL hadn't have been made and the series began with GF where Connery gave exactly the same performance, then I would rank Connery after Daniel Craig. I prefer the darker portrayals of the character that are in line with the literary man.

...or maybe equal with Craig. :)

identigraph

I think the timing has been kinder to Craig, Dalton followed a string of 7 films with one actor who became identified with the role, despite whether you like him or not and TLD came out within the usual timeline, CR came out after a four year gap and had the advantage of a reboot etc, Dalton didn't get this treatment.
Also these days anything with name recognition or any kind of franchise always seem to do good business whereas in the late 80's Bond was maybe seen as a bit old fashioned?

Did Dalton get the same kind of hype as Craig for his debut was Timbo promoted enough?

NicNac

A thread titled 'Daniel Craig or Timothy Dalton' is surely left open to interpretation?

Earlier in the thread I discussed them as cinema stars and was told this thread is about which is the best Bond. Now it seems it's about which one interprets Ian Fleming's book character the best.

Well, Craig is the greater film actor, Craig is the greater Bond, but which one captures Fleming's character best? No idea, it's so long since I read the books! But I do remember that in Casino Royale Bond habitually called Vesper 'darling', a term neither of the above use, and the only Bond actor who did? Sir Rog.

007RogerMoore

Connery said "darling" to Romanova in FRWL.

jayem

I prefer Timothy Dalton where he played a more realistic, more humane side of James Bond but still with class and sophistication in tradition to the previous Bond films. Daniel Craig is a good actor, a great action star but not convincing as Bond. When I watched his last two movies i keep on reminding myself that I'm watching a Bond movie and that Craig is portraying James Bond not as Jason Bourne nor Xander Cage. Definitely he lacks the charisma and elegance of a true James Bond.

BAIN123

NicNac said:
A thread titled 'Daniel Craig or Timothy Dalton' is surely left open to interpretation?

Earlier in the thread I discussed them as cinema stars and was told this thread is about which is the best Bond. Now it seems it's about which one interprets Ian Fleming's book character the best.

Well, Craig is the greater film actor, Craig is the greater Bond, but which one captures Fleming's character best? No idea, it's so long since I read the books! But I do remember that in Casino Royale Bond habitually called Vesper 'darling', a term neither of the above use, and the only Bond actor who did? Sir Rog.

and Broz at the very end of GE ;)

"darling...what could possibly go wrong hey?"

There was also Connery in GF:

"a little lower darling"

NicNac

Yes, I was guessing I must admit... ;)

Pussfella

what a tough one!

but it's pretty clear how much of a debt dan owes tim - see my previous post ref. john glen telling me that "tim dalton was ahead of his time"

i think i and a lot of people love tim dalton because he was the first bond i saw in the cinema - and his reign was so cruelly robbed by court room bs..

what i love about craig is that he's clearly much more into tim dalton's interpretation than he let's on - that bit at the beginning of Casino when he chastises his mi6 colleague for having his finger in his ear - is pure dalton/smithers

thelivingroyale

Dalton is ahead in the poll and all is right with the world again :)

Molly

Come on, DC in CR was "basically" just out of the MI6 training, and cannot be compared with the others, he's like the Alpha, I've liked all of the actors, comparison, unless in the same movie is made by all actors, is subjective. I'm still with Craig ahead of Dalton. The movies have so much more to do with the producers, directors and stories, it's whether we like watching the person and excepting them as that character than anything. Craig is a younger version, which is what they were going for, up against the Bourne movies, etc. I didn't think I would accept him as Bond either, but he proved me wrong. I did and do like him. Still Craig . . . .

casino007

Timothy Dalton most certainly reverted back to Fleming's Bond following the Moore legacy. Don't get me wrong, I really like Roger, I have listened to his audiobook many, many times but he did approach Bond very differently. However, Casino Royale has got to be considered as one of the best. Timothy Dalton was great and I have watched both films many times though he was criticised for his over-serious portrayal and I believe Daniel (albeit a serious portrayal) did in my opinion add something extra though I am bound to be biased as I grew up in the same town as he did.

Molly

Re: casino007
You're allowed, you grew up in the same town . . . most acceptable :)

thelivingroyale

How come every time Dalton is in the lead, afew more people pop up and vote for Craig??? CONSPIRACY!!!

Molly

We just cannot help ourselves . . . :)
Have a great day/evening.

SirHenryLeeChaChing

I have to pop in long enough to say that I cannot decide. I love both of these guys as witnessed below- I will wait for Skyfall and Craig's classic interpretation to decide-

1. Connery
2 (tie) Dalton and Craig
4. Moore
5. Lazenby
6. Brosnan

Molly said:
Come on, DC in CR was "basically" just out of the MI6 training, and cannot be compared with the others, he's like the Alpha, I've liked all of the actors, comparison, unless in the same movie is made by all actors, is subjective. I'm still with Craig ahead of Dalton. The movies have so much more to do with the producers, directors and stories, it's whether we like watching the person and excepting them as that character than anything. Craig is a younger version, which is what they were going for, up against the Bourne movies, etc. I didn't think I would accept him as Bond either, but he proved me wrong. I did and do like him. Still Craig . . . .

That is what I have been saying for the past 6 years. Glad you have the intelligence to see that!

NicNac

identigraph said:
I think the timing has been kinder to Craig, Dalton followed a string of 7 films with one actor who became identified with the role, despite whether you like him or not and TLD came out within the usual timeline, CR came out after a four year gap and had the advantage of a reboot etc, Dalton didn't get this treatment.
Also these days anything with name recognition or any kind of franchise always seem to do good business whereas in the late 80's Bond was maybe seen as a bit old fashioned?

Did Dalton get the same kind of hype as Craig for his debut was Timbo promoted enough?

Now I don't agree with this @identigraph. I see it the other way round. After a tired Moore gave up the role the world was desperate and ready for a new Bond. Media attention and the eyes of the world were truly focused. Dalton couldn't lose really.

Craig also came in on the back of a popular osutgoing Bond so no difference other than the fact everyone thought Brosnan had another film in him (Moore clearly didn't).

As for the franchise, Bond had little competition in the mid 80s compared to today so he had more advantage. And he was promoted just as much as Craig but without the world wide web to either help or hinder.

No, the success or otherwise of a new Bond will always come down to the film itself and the popularity of the actor in that film.

identigraph

You may be right NicNac, maybe Dalton just didn't excite people, but I think the amount of competion in the mid 80's is maybe underestimated this was the era of the blockbuster and new franchises were born such as Indiana Jones and Back to the Future as well as more violent action films which may have made Bond look tame (Die Hard, Leathal Weapon etc).

thelivingroyale

I think there was plenty of competition in the 80s. TLD managed to beat Die Hard (released at the same time), and the past 2 Moore films so I think it did well.

LTK didn't do very well because of bad advertising, the new 15 rating, and it was put up against Batman, Lethal Weapon, Indiana Jones, etc.

BAIN123

thelivingroyale said:
I think there was plenty of competition in the 80s. TLD managed to beat Die Hard (released at the same time), and the past 2 Moore films so I think it did well.

LTK didn't do very well because of bad advertising, the new 15 rating, and it was put up against Batman, Lethal Weapon, Indiana Jones, etc.

Die Hard was released a year later in 1988. The films in '87 were Leathel Weapon, Predator, Dirty Dancing and The Untouchables - pretty big movies. According to the US box office TLD did quite well but still came below all of these.

The sad truth is that most American's weren't all that fond of Timothy Dalton.

http://boxofficemojo.com/yearly/chart/?yr=1987&p=.htm

NicNac

No, Dalton wasn't popular in USA, the most important individual market for Bond. I'm always a bit of a Dalton-basher but I loved TLD (still do) and accept that LTK was probably the worst promoted of all Bonds at a time when it needed every ounce of help because of the imergance of other franchises around that time.

thelivingroyale

BAIN123 said:

thelivingroyale said:
I think there was plenty of competition in the 80s. TLD managed to beat Die Hard (released at the same time), and the past 2 Moore films so I think it did well.

LTK didn't do very well because of bad advertising, the new 15 rating, and it was put up against Batman, Lethal Weapon, Indiana Jones, etc.

Die Hard was released a year later in 1988. The films in '87 were Leathel Weapon, Predator, Dirty Dancing and The Untouchables - pretty big movies. According to the US box office TLD did quite well but still came below all of these.

The sad truth is that most American's weren't all that fond of Timothy Dalton.

http://boxofficemojo.com/yearly/chart/?yr=1987&p=.htm

That's right, thanks. But still, even though he wasn't that popular in America, he still had lots of competition, and TLD did well enough. LTK had bad advertising, lots of competition and a higher rating.

identigraph

Timbo's films still made decent money, not as big as most of the previous entries but still profitable, the fact he only made two and the huge gap between LTK and GE due to legal issues, has always given people the impression that Dalton nearly destroyed the series but who knows what would have happen if he had made a third.

BAIN123

identigraph said:
Timbo's films still made decent money, not as big as most of the previous entries but still profitable, the fact he only made two and the huge gap between LTK and GE due to legal issues, has always given people the impression that Dalton nearly destroyed the series but who knows what would have happen if he had made a third.

I still maintain that, had he done it, GE would not have been as successful as it was - despite the long gap. Yeah I'm sure it would have done fairly well but it wouldn't have been the powerhouse it was IMO. Rog, who suffered a similar situation with TMWTGG and TSWLM was already hugely popular with the public in America thanks to The Saint and The Persuaders, hence he didn't need to try as hard to win them over. Thats what a lot of people forget.

identigraph

I know when I was growing up I never heard a good word about Dalton, it seems he was seen as a bit of a disaster by the general public and I was generally dismissive of him myself until I watched LTK properly for the first time.

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