Quantum of Solace - The worst Bond flick to date

SaintMark

QoS I hope is the worst EON attempt ever. I hope.

That would mean that nr. 23 would be an improvement.

BAIN123

As I said the issue isn't so much following it but more caring about it. Why should I care about some little man who wants to deprive a country we dont know about in the context of the film of water/oil? I'm sorry but u need more of a hook than that.

Even Flemings novels "spoonfed" their audience to an extent (take the long monologue by Drax in MR).

haserot

but there is a big difference in exposition to further the plot - and beating a dead horse.... Tomorrow Never Dies through Die Another Day (and especially the latter), it felt like they had to constantly remind us what the plot was, on a regular basis...

the plot of the film (cutting off a nation's water supply) is no different in relevance than drugs in LALD - a dumb solar energy device in TMWTGG - the atac in FYEO (which ends up getting destroyed in the end anyway) - Microchips in AVTAK - Opium/Weapons in TLD - Drugs/Stingers in LTK - and Oil in TWINE... i guess because that country is some 'fly spec' that we could care less about - that automatically switches off the part of our brain that triggers compassion for fellow humans - even if it's only a movie...

besides that - the real story of movie was not Water in Bolivia, it was more about Bond himself than it was about a McGuffin' - which was a nice change of pace - as that was the whole point in linking CR and QOS.... it wasn't about building up some uber-maniacal plot to gain world domination - it was about Bond going from 'rookie' to 'pro' - while also setting up a shady organization that Bond can now face for future films - an organization in which QOS firmly established, could care less about world domination - their goal is profits and money... not ruling the world..

BAIN123

The thing is the films you mentioned set up their stories far better. They didn't just run from action scene to action scene in the way that Quantum does (especially in the first half). Heck, as I said before we get 2 big action scenes in the space of just under 10 minutes - before any notion of plot is mentioned.

Also, I wouldn't actually mind seeing a world domination villain again. At least it would establish a wider threat. I know that the film makes Bond go from rookie to pro but the problem is - CR already did that. At the end of Royale Bond is meant to be the character we know, however in Quantum his abilities as an agent are again questionned.

I can understand what the filmmakers were TRYING to do but it just didn't quite work. The film just seemed... messy.

Even Martin Campbell thought the film somewhat lost its way.

barryt007

No,it's not for me .
Sitting pretty at #8 on my list at the moment.
However,saying that,it will never improve on that position but i could see it falling a little as i watch the films just below it .

NicNac

Going back to the young lady who saw it with Vodka_Martini, she gave her reasons as follows

"It just jumps from scene to scene, you dont even know whats going on" Script was weak. "Here's the bad guy, heres the americans blah blah blah"

And as such you can fully understand her reasoning. It is just as she said. It does jump about, the editing causes confusion, so she's justified in her comments.
Equally, some of the examples of worse Bond films given by everyone else are justified, in that the occassional funerial pace of TMWTGG is frustrating, as is the silliness of MR and the flatness of AVTAK.

As ever it's all opinion. And more often than not the fault lies less with the script than with the director.

For me, how can QOS be considered worse than...wait for it, gulp....LTK.

ducks

Pesto

C'mon people, clearly DAD is the worst Bond film ever. It's awful.

QoS is really underrated. I think it's a great film. Certainly far from the worst.

Luds

Quoting Pesto: C'mon people, clearly DAD is the worst Bond film ever. It's awful.

Game, Set, and Match there Bain ;)

BAIN123

Quoting Luds:
Quoting Pesto: C'mon people, clearly DAD is the worst Bond film ever. It's awful.

Game, Set, and Match there Bain ;)

Hehe, I never said I liked DAD. I just said there are some scenes that at least stick out more (in a positive way) compared to Quantum. Atm DAD is #19 on my list while Quantum is 22. Maybe I should change them round but what really urks me is that NONE of the action has any real memorability about it in QoS.

Luds

In all honesty, I've never positioned QOS and CR in any of my rankings. My last Bondathon dates from a few months before CR opened, and I didn't go through another one since. So I'm sure there will be some changes next time I make a good ranking, but as of now I can't honestly say where I rank CR/QOS. I'd estimate low top 10 for CR and possibly around 15 or so for QOS, possibly even top 10, I can't tell.

One thing's for sure, it's that there are numerous Bond flicks that are much much worse than QOS and that we're not only talking about DAD here, TWINE, TSWLM, TND, and possibly a few more are a few lightyears behind.

BAIN123

Quoting Luds: TSWLM,

Pah, as I said before the opening 10 minutes is better than ANYTHING in Quantum. I certainly know what would impress me more if I were a film-maker.

Plus, Carly Simon, Richard Kiel, Kurt Jurgens and Roger Moore hammer Alicia Keys/Jack White, Anatole Tubman (Elvis), Mathieu Amalric and (even) Daniel Craig (who was the best thing about the film).

Ellipsis

I would put it above anything that Roger Moore did and half of what Brosnan did. The only thing bad with QoS is it's not a stand alone movie, you have to see CR to understand what's going on.

jaguar007

Quoting Luds: TSWLM

I am really surprised at the love MR gets on this site, yet TSWLM gets a fair amount of hate. I just don't get it :-?

Samuel001

Moonraker has some fantastic locations, a much better lead female, a villain 100x times better, who in turn gives some chilling speaches and a great John Barry score as well as Roger Moore on the top of his game. It's also not a direct rip off of You Only Live Twice, like The Spy Who Loved Me is.

jaguar007

Quoting Samuel001: It's also not a direct rip off of You Only Live Twice, like The Spy Who Loved Me is.

you are right, it is a direct rip off of TSWLM.

Samuel001

Except Moonraker is The Spy Who Loved Me done right.

BAIN123

Really? I don't know if Jaws losing any credibility as an assassin and double-take pigeons are "done right".

I also thought Goodhead was a bit wooden aswell tbh.

However I do agree that it does have some great locations, an excellent booming score from JB and a cool baddie.

Nonetheless, TSWLM is a far better film. Both Sir Rog and Lewis Gilbert thought so too ;)

Anyway, this is about Quantum.

Luds

Quoting Samuel001: Except Moonraker is The Spy Who Loved Me done right.

I agree with Sam here. TSWLM was just a blatant and weaker copy of YOLT.
Moonraker was an extravaganza, a big budget popcorn flick with amazing special effects, done right after the Star Wars craze, there couldn't have been a better choice of flick for the time.

sheriouslysean

Newbe to the site, here! In short, as others have indicated, QoS resides in the bottom 5 - and there are some mingers down there! However, I reckon that it would be more watchable if not better if they did an extended edition QoS - and get M to take a contract out on the QoS editor! The locations looked good, and the scenes were mainly well shot, but the pacing of just about all of the action sequences look like they could (and, for story development, should) have been far longer. Okay, the background story line, whilst current, is hard to identify with (a little like the man with the golden gun and the "energy crisis"). With CR having Vesper stealing Bonds heart and soul, our new boggle-eyed villain, token skinhead henchman and the sinister Quantum organisation plan world domination by stealing someone else's h2o. Hardly bone-chilling (unless you are the someone it affects).

Most of the scenes appear to be edited utilising fast cuts on the idea that this will make Bond more current, more Bourne. However it appears that the QoS editor hasn't established objectives, targets, hazards and significance of events prior to the action scenes. Take, for instance the QoS car chase compared with Bourne's Goa bridge scene - on Bourne, we establish the location, that the assassin is on his heels, Bourne's target (the bridge) - and then we proceed with the chase (fast edits to match the chase). QoS, on the other hand, doesn't identify the objective and the stunts (lorry crashing into car, gun shots, etc) are not able to be processed before the next event occurs (traffic forcing Bond into the quarry).

This lack of establishing shots and outlining the purpose of a scene also affect other sequences, such as the opera scene. On paper, the sequence sounds good (John Woo does Bond?!) - a choreographed montage of action to the soundtrack of the opera performed at the arena. However, the sequence is over complicated - a haemorrhage of events - bad guys and opera aficionados coming in, Bond doing surveillance and spooking the bad guys, Mr White reappearing for no other purpose than to highlight that the Quantum organisation have assembled, a fight scene apparently edited to the opera soundtrack (again, neat idea but edited too quickly/clumsily), dead guys, the PM's advisor's body guard fighting Bond, what?! Even M is confused with the aftermath!!

I hope that Bond 23 gets the right balance between drama and action (probably the best attempt to date has been Martin Campbell with Casino Royale) - I'm still slightly apprehensive of a drama director (Mendes) taking on a action film following Forster's attempt on QoS - would love to see a Michael Mann or especially a Christopher Nolan Bond film! I would also hope that we could see an involving car chase sequence (Bond tailing someone then chasing ala Bullitt), the continued lack of props (invisible car anyone!) and defining of Bond as an agent, rather than a guy hell-bent on revenge - we already have Oldboy! I would also hope that the script writers could invent an introduction of a tense scene with a sniper hunting Bond - at the last moment leading to the famous gun barrel view. =D>

hart008

QoS is far compared to CR but i think DAD is worse, you think they will remake Bond like Batman (so back to Dr No Octopussy etc)?

chuck007

QOS is a much better film than any Brosnan's Bond

BAIN123

Quoting chuck007: QOS is a much better film than any Brosnan's Bond

Disagree there. If I'm honest I'd much rather rewatch GE, TND or TWINE anyday (there I said it).

chuck007

Quoting BAIN123: Disagree there. If I'm honest I'd much rather rewatch GE, TND or TWINE anyday (there I said it).

TWINE? Brosnan got razzies nomination in this film...so i prefer rewatch QOS anyday than TWINE (there i said it)

JBFan626

I disagree that the script was weak. If anything it was unfinished or unpolished. In fact I would argue it was really the execution that was the problem. The story introduces Quantum as an actual large scale covert operation, a modern geo-political topic is utilized, and we're brought back full circle with the revelation of Vesper's former lover.

In truth, the outline of DAD too had something going for it, but was plagued by Lee Tamahori's XXX style direction. The same goes for Forster's hyper-action fused art direction that delivers an otherwise interesting story into a mess. With Campbell, especially in CR, we had a well executed film derived from an average to good script.

BAIN123

Quoting JBFan626: In truth, the outline of DAD too had something going for it, but was plagued by
Lee Tamahori's XXX style direction. The same goes for Forster's hyper-action
fused art direction that delivers an otherwise interesting story into a mess.
With Campbell, especially in CR, we had a well executed film derived from an
average to good script.

I agree strongly with you :) Although I think that the very fact that the script was under-developed means that it was weak. Apparently it was written and re-written several times - the final product was submitted just b4 the writers strike began.

The thing Royale will always have in its favour was that it was inspired by the original Fleming story. To quote Martin Campbell:

"I felt “Quantum of Solace” completely lost its way. We were lucky on “Casino Royale”, it was the origin story of Bond. Bond had the one and only affair that meant anything to him, and affected him throughout the rest of the series".

The same is true for DAD. That had a promising and...dare I say it...good first half. It was the second that sent it tumbling down - hugely.

NOTE: Campbell seems to have forgotten about Bond's other affair, Tracy!

jaguar007

Between script and finish product, I think TWINE actually had a pretty good story, probably Brosnan's best on paper. However due to casting and direction, it is possibly my least favorite Bond film.

CoH_GHOST_007

Quoting sheriouslysean: would love to see a or a Christopher Nolan Bond film!

So would i, he comes up with great ideas (The Dark Knight/Inception), and is currently my second most inspiring director (just below Ridley Scott), aslong as he keeps the title's where they should be (he has a habit of putting them at the end) and to stay away from hard-cuts (Where he has scenes cut to the smallest he can get, just to get straight on to the next scene, sometimes he evn cuts the end of actors sentances a bit), but i think he'd do well :')

Bondian_avenger

I have been reading everyones comments and to be honest there are some valid ones. However from my point of view the film is definitely too short by about 30 mins as it misses the gritty dialogue that CR had. There was too much action, the car chase was good, I can't stand the boat chase as it is just unnessary, the plane chase was ridiculous, however the foot chase over the roofs was fantastic and showed Daniel Craig at his best.

In terms of the music the title track was rubbish, totally tuneless and didn't lend itself to the film at all, unlike say You Know My Name from CR which figured throughout the film. In terms of the score in places it was good, however in others it felt too clinical and empty, and in general it was not in the same league as David Arnold's CR soundtrack or for that matter his TMND soundtrack (that should have had Surrender as planned as its theme).

Overall the film wasn't the worst and is watchable (the plot was fairly easy to follow) after watching it twice anyway.

As for Bond 23 Sam Mendes hopefully won't make "the same too short" mistake Mark Forster did and at least with him and John Logan on board it should have inteligent undertones.

PS. Christopher Nolan should be the next director, he is a massive bond fan, anybody who has watched Batman Begins can see his Q division slant with Morgan Freeman and Chrisitan Bale. If they are running out of ideas for stories why not use some of the continuation novals as the basis for stories afterall is that what Nolan and Goyer do already on the Batman series and look at how successful that reboot has been.

AlexanderWaverly

The first time I saw QoS, I was tempted to leave the theater. And this was at a free showing. The first section really did seem like Bourne. For me, Bond didn't really seem to be acting like Bond until the opera house sequence, where he came across and clever and thinking things through before he acted. So that saved the film for me (or at least I stopped thinking about leaving).

Re: confusing editing. The first time I saw it, I thought M had been shot in that sequence after the titles. Oops, turns out she wasn't. I ended up seeing the movie a couple of nights later with friends. I watched carefully, it still looked like she got shot, though I knew she wasn't.

For some reason, I've never been motivated to get it on DVD or buy the soundtrack, something I had done for all previous Bonds.

Your mileage may (and likely will) vary.

Kerim

I realize QOS is a letdown from CR, but QOS can't possibly be the worst Bond film to date when it's not even the worst Bond film of its decade.

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