Would Goldeneye have been a success with Dalton?

Baltimore_007

I saw the Rocketeer once, and from what I remember Dalton had a very small part in that, hardly saw much of him. I concentrate solely on the fact that he was an ex-James Bond, that's where the interest lies, first and foremost

Hasn't had as much success as Craig or Connery or Moore in the film industry outside of James Bond, but he's still one hell of an individual and my favorite Bond..

BAIN123

thelivingroyale said:
Yeah, but how much attention he's gotten doesn't bother me either. Like I said, I think he was the best Bond and a great actor, so I really don't care how popular he is or how big a star he is (and he was popular when he was Bond).

He is a good actor and I actually feel a bit sorry for him to be honest but, lets face it, he hasn't really "made it" in the way he probably thought he would. Watching him on the Terry Wogan 1989 interview he seemed to be lapping it up. I suspect he thought he'd at least do a few more Bond films and would get more attention than he did.

I can't say for certain whether Dalton was popular or not because obviously I was too young to remember first hand. BUT I have had indications - I remember Haphazard for instance describing himself as being in "the disappointed minority" when he found out Dalts wasn't coming back. There have been others too.

thelivingroyale

He never made it the way some of the other Bonds did, no (he's still more successful than Lazenby though). But at the time, most people I knew liked him, even in the 90s with the gap between films.

wildboonjive

I have to disagree with this. As much as it pains me to admit, he was not very popular at all during this time. People just got used to the idea of him being the current Bond, but he really wasn't loved the way Moore was, or even Brosnan later. The average moviegoer/fan didn't like Dalton at all, and most critics echoed that sentiment. At least here in America that's how it was. I remember it clearly. I was definitely in the minority at the time.

BAIN123

wildboonjive said:
I have to disagree with this. As much as it pains me to admit, he was not very popular at all during this time. People just got used to the idea of him being the current Bond, but he really wasn't loved the way Moore was, or even Brosnan later. The average moviegoer/fan didn't like Dalton at all, and most critics echoed that sentiment. At least here in America that's how it was. I remember it clearly. I was definitely in the minority at the time.

As a Brit who was 4 when LTK was made I can't say whether the same was true here but I definitely get the sense that, even in the UK, he wasn't loved as much as Moore or Brosnan were during their era's. Even in the recent exhibitions I've been to there was a bit more emphasis on the likes of Connery, Moore, Brosnan and Craig.

And I have to admit watching clips of each Bond actor on large TV screens next to eachother (as was the case in the Barbican the other day) Connery, Moore, Brosnan and Craig (possibly even Lazenby) do look a little bit cooler on camera than Dalton does. Dalton looks ok but not as sleek as the others (and that includes Craig). I found my eyes being drawn to them for the most part.

Perhaps I'm being a little shallow but there we are.

I feel bad for Dalton but part of me can kind of see why he's often seen as "underrated" or "under-appreciated".

thelivingroyale

BAIN123 said:
And I have to admit watching clips of each Bond actor on large TV screens next to eachother (as was the case in the Barbican the other day) Connery, Moore, Brosnan and Craig (possibly even Lazenby) do look a little bit cooler on camera than Dalton does. Dalton looks ok but not as sleek as the others (and that includes Craig). I found my eyes being drawn to the others for the most part.

http://specsavers.com/

Seriously though, I think Dalton was cool. He jumped out of planes onto tanker trucks, watched coldly as a guys head explodes, escaped Russian police on a cello, killed a henchman while dangling from the back of a cargo plane, and was the only Bond who went rogue. Sounds cool to me.

It doesn't matter what anyone says, I'll defend Dalton until the day I die :P

BAIN123

thelivingroyale said:

BAIN123 said:
And I have to admit watching clips of each Bond actor on large TV screens next to eachother (as was the case in the Barbican the other day) Connery, Moore, Brosnan and Craig (possibly even Lazenby) do look a little bit cooler on camera than Dalton does. Dalton looks ok but not as sleek as the others (and that includes Craig). I found my eyes being drawn to the others for the most part.

http://specsavers.com/

Seriously though, I think Dalton was cool. He jumped out of planes onto tanker trucks, watched coldly as a guys head explodes, escaped Russian police on a cello, killed a henchman while dangling from the back of a cargo plane, and was the only Bond who went rogue. Sounds cool to me.

It doesn't matter what anyone says, I'll defend Dalton until the day I die :P

:)) at the link. My eyes aren't the greatest (I had surgery on them when I was young but have managed to escape wearing glasses for the most part) but I can only say what my experiences were :p

That's fair enough. In many ways I like Dalton too and he did do some cool stuff like you said but he just didn't have the "swagger" the others had.

thelivingroyale

I was impressed when I heard he did alot of his own stunts, because his films (well, all the 80s films), had imo, the best stunts of the series.

Anyway, I think he did have swagger and showed it at times, but he preferred to be a harder edged, no sh*t Bond, instead of one who uses his charm all the time. He did something risky and left his mark on the series, so I really admire him for that.

licensetoforum

To me Dalton had charisma but it was more subtle. He was not like the other Bonds who had sly pick up lines, but rather one who let his actions dictate his charm. I think that works better if you are attempting an Ian Flemings Bond approach.

wildboonjive

BAIN123 said:

thelivingroyale said:

BAIN123 said:
And I have to admit watching clips of each Bond actor on large TV screens next to eachother (as was the case in the Barbican the other day) Connery, Moore, Brosnan and Craig (possibly even Lazenby) do look a little bit cooler on camera than Dalton does. Dalton looks ok but not as sleek as the others (and that includes Craig). I found my eyes being drawn to the others for the most part.

http://specsavers.com/

Seriously though, I think Dalton was cool. He jumped out of planes onto tanker trucks, watched coldly as a guys head explodes, escaped Russian police on a cello, killed a henchman while dangling from the back of a cargo plane, and was the only Bond who went rogue. Sounds cool to me.

It doesn't matter what anyone says, I'll defend Dalton until the day I die :P

That's fair enough. In many ways I like Dalton too and he did do some cool stuff like you said but he just didn't have the "swagger" the others had.

I think @BAIN123 is right on the money here. Swagger is the one thing that Dalton didn't have. And don't get me wrong, he is right up there for me with Connery and Craig in terms of favorites. I love Dalton. Even back when he was James Bond. He had class, he moved well. But he didn't have swagger. It's such a simple yet crucial element.

@thelivingroyale, you must remember however that Dalton wasn't the only rogue Bond. Craig was rogue in the last film, as was Brosnan in part of DAD. But he was the first, I'll give you that.

thelivingroyale

wildboonjive said:
@thelivingroyale, you must remember however that Dalton wasn't the only rogue Bond. Craig was rogue in the last film, as was Brosnan in part of DAD. But he was the first, I'll give you that.

Craig wasn't rogue in QOS, I thought he was at first but some people on here corrected me (I couldn't really tell alot of what was going on in QOS at all tbh). Brosnan went rogue in DAD, but it wasn't the same. He was still classic Bond. When Dalton went rogue, he was pissed off Bond, we'd never seen Bond be this emotionally driven before.

licensetoforum said:
To me Dalton had charisma but it was more subtle. He was not like the other Bonds who had sly pick up lines, but rather one who let his actions dictate his charm. I think that works better if you are attempting an Ian Flemings Bond approach.

This.

BAIN123

thelivingroyale said:
I was impressed when I heard he did alot of his own stunts, because his films (well, all the 80s films), had imo, the best stunts of the series.

That was good - I'll give you that. Especially since I've noticed a fair share of stunt doubles for both Moore and Brosnan. Also Dalton wanted to take it back to Fleming and for that he can only deserve credit.

I've used these two examples before on Mi6 but hopefully you'll see what I mean when I refer to Dalton's lack of "swagger":

Which actor moves in a cooler way? ;)

MajorDSmythe

Posting a clip of Sam Bond's Moneypenny really wont help your cause. ;)

thelivingroyale

BAIN123 said:

thelivingroyale said:
I was impressed when I heard he did alot of his own stunts, because his films (well, all the 80s films), had imo, the best stunts of the series.

That was good. Especially since I've noticed a fair share of stunt doubles for both Moore and Brosnan.

I've used these two examples before on Mi6 but hopefully you'll see what I mean when I refer to Dalton's lack of "swagger":

Which actor moves in a cooler way? ;)

Brosnan did have better Moneypenny scenes I'll give you that. Brosnan did have more charm than Dalton, but I think Dalton did have charm, he was just more subtle. Plus, Bliss isn't a very good Moneypenny (by which I mean, she was crap), while Bond was pretty good.

BAIN123

MajorDSmythe said:
Posting a clip of Sam Bond's Moneypenny really wont help your cause. ;)

Why? She is the better MP :p

Baltimore_007

Caroline Bliss wasn't crap, she simply wasn't given enough time to show her potential, the same can be said for George Lazenby

What was it is, ten seconds in License to Kill? - poor girl

BAIN123

thelivingroyale said:

BAIN123 said:

thelivingroyale said:
I was impressed when I heard he did alot of his own stunts, because his films (well, all the 80s films), had imo, the best stunts of the series.

That was good. Especially since I've noticed a fair share of stunt doubles for both Moore and Brosnan.

I've used these two examples before on Mi6 but hopefully you'll see what I mean when I refer to Dalton's lack of "swagger":

Which actor moves in a cooler way? ;)

Brosnan did have better Moneypenny scenes I'll give you that. Brosnan did have more charm than Dalton, but I think Dalton did have charm, he was just more subtle. Plus, Bliss isn't a very good Moneypenny (by which I mean, she was crap), while Bond was pretty good.

Dalton did have charm but I'm not sure if he had quite as MUCH charm as some of the other actors (at least on film).

licensetoforum

It is werid, but Dalton seems extremely charming in real life.

MajorDSmythe

BAIN123 said:

MajorDSmythe said:
Posting a clip of Sam Bond's Moneypenny really wont help your cause. ;)

Why? She is the better MP :p

Better at sitting on M's lap like a good little lapdog, joining in at verbally castrating Bond? Then yes, she was good at that. And don't get me started on that horrid VR scene from DAD.

If anything, I think Bliss was underused.

BAIN123

licensetoforum said:
It is werid, but Dalton seems extremely charming in real life.

That's what's odd. He was quite funny in that interview with Terry Wogan. I've always thought Dalton was hilarious in Hot Fuzz too.

If anything, I think Bliss was underused.

No offence but Bah!! :))

I've shown those clips to both family members and friends and everyone agrees the Brosnan/Bond scenes are more convincing.

wildboonjive

He's probably a very nice man in real life.

I think the point that some of us are making here is that he didn't have magnetism, the way say that someone like Connery did. When approaching the ladies he didn't seem at as much ease as some of the others. And that's what the whole swagger thing is about.

MajorDSmythe

BAIN123 said:

If anything, I think Bliss was underused.

No offence but Bah!! :))

None taken, in fact I know that feeling.

I'm working on something Dalton Bond related at the moment, it still needs tweaking before I can reveal it though.

BAIN123

wildboonjive said:
He's probably a very nice man in real life.

I think the point that some of us are making here is that he didn't have magnetism, the way say that someone like Connery did. When approaching the ladies he didn't seem at as much ease as some of the others. And that's what the whole swagger thing is about.

Thanks @Wildboonjive. That's what I mean.

I'm sure he is a nice man and I think it would be very interesting and insightful to have a chat with him

Baltimore_007

The romance scene with Milovy on the ferris wheel at the Prater fair in Vienna just leaves me cold actually, there's no chemistry and just feels a whole lot of unbelievable, maybe I just didn't like the Milovy character, but did pick up a bit later on once they reached Afghanistan...

BAIN123

Baltimore_007 said:
The romance scene with Milovy on the ferris wheel at the Prater fair in Vienna just leaves me cold actually, there's no chemistry and just feels a whole lot of unbelievable, maybe I just didn't like the Milovy character, but did pick up a bit later on once they reached Afghanistan...

Its strange. That is quite a sweet scene but to me they both look a little bit uncomfortable. Kind of like how I would when I'm about to kiss a girl (not that that happens very much :p ). Connery or Moore wouldn't be like that (heck neither would Brosnan, Laz or Craig) [-(

Kara I can understand but Bond should be confident.

Baltimore_007

as for 'would you like another ride' (with d'Abo) - no thanks..

>:P

BAIN123

Baltimore_007 said:
as for 'would you like another ride' (with d'Abo) - no thanks..

>:P

I wouldn't pass that up :p

thelivingroyale

Kara is my favourite Bond girl. Hot, and can handle herself in action but doesn't get in Bonds way.

BAIN123

thelivingroyale said:
Kara is my favourite Bond girl. Hot, and can handle herself in action but doesn't get in Bonds way.

Kara's great but a tad too "puppy like" for me.

licensetoforum

BAIN123 said:

thelivingroyale said:
Kara is my favourite Bond girl. Hot, and can handle herself in action but doesn't get in Bonds way.

Kara's great but a tad too "puppy like" for me.

Agreed. Pam was a better Bond girl and a perfect fit for Dalton's Bond.

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