Were there contemporary Vietnam War references in Diamonds Are Forever (1971)?

Dragonpol

I'm thinking here primarily about the forward and backward rocket-firing helicopters in the Blofeld Oil Rig climax to the film off Baha, California. I see this as a Vietnam War reference (just like similar scenes in the recent Skyfall at Skyfall Lodge) and I was wondering if others here thought or felt the same and if any other parts of Diamonds Are Forever potentially referenced the United States' longest war. Britain of course (wisely) stayed out of the war but as a large part of the film was set in and around the United States it is interesting to note these little references. See the You Tube footage below for the type of thing I am talking about:

Soundofthesinners

I don't think it was specifically a reference to Vietnam, just modern US technology. There were obviously references to the Cold War in general, just not 'Nam itself.

Perilagu_Khan

Soundofthesinners wrote:

I don't think it was specifically a reference to Vietnam, just modern US technology. There were obviously references to the Cold War in general, just not 'Nam itself.

Agreed. I picked up on no Vietnam reverences whatsoever. Bond films tend to be fairly apolitical, and DAF was as apolitical as they come.

Dragonpol

OK. Thanks. It's great to hear the views of other members on the forum sounding board.

TheWizardOfIce

You really are giving the DAF script way too much credit here.

The Huey was a popular helicopter of the time so its hardly a shock to see it feature in the climax.

You might as well ask 'Is Apocalypse Now referencing DAF with its Wagner sequence?'

Dragonpol

TheWizardOfIce wrote:

You really are giving the DAF script way too much credit here.

The Huey was a popular helicopter of the time so its hardly a shock to see it feature in the climax.

You might as well ask 'Is Apocalypse Now referencing DAF with its Wagner sequence?'

Wise words from the Wizard! I'm now ashamed of this thread; I really did think that I was onto something, too. Perhaps this one should have stayed within the hall of smashed mirrors that is my mind...

minorMajor9th

Soundofthesinners wrote:

I don't think it was specifically a reference to Vietnam, just modern US technology. There were obviously references to the Cold War in general, just not 'Nam itself.

Yep. The Little Birds and Hueys are just (then) top of the line military aircraft. Like the aviator sunglasses and the Shaft-esque wacka-wacka guitar and hi-hat funk groove in the title song, they reflect the US zeitgeist of the time, which was echoed by US forces 'Nam and Cambodia.

On a deeper level, the Americanisms were a conscious choice by David Picker and co to recapture the US market after OHMSS.

Dragonpol

minorMajor9th wrote:

Soundofthesinners wrote:

I don't think it was specifically a reference to Vietnam, just modern US technology. There were obviously references to the Cold War in general, just not 'Nam itself.

Yep. The Little Birds and Hueys are just (then) top of the line military aircraft. Like the aviator sunglasses and the Shaft-esque wacka-wacka guitar and hi-hat funk groove in the title song, they reflect the US zeitgeist of the time, which was echoed by US forces 'Nam and Cambodia.

On a deeper level, the Americanisms were a conscious choice by David Picker and co to recapture the US market after OHMSS.

Thank you for your thoughtful and illuminating reply, sir. I was wondering about the makes of helicopter on display as I'm writing a piece on the DAF novel finale currently, tying it in a bit with the oil rig anti-climax of the film version. Should be fun.

00Ed

The previous posters are correct that the choppers in DAF are a display of then-current military technology, not necessarily a deliberate reference to the Vietnam War.

It should be noted, however, that the US Army's emphasis on helicopter mobility in the 1960s and '70s was largely a response to the challenges of combat in Southeast Asia. The Little Birds and Huey Gunships seen in DAF were actually being used in Vietnam at the time that the film was in theaters.

BTW, Vietnam is no longer regarded as America's longest war. The ongoing conflict in Afghanistan has surpassed it.

GeorgeLazenby

No but I've always wondered if they were trying to joke about the idea that the moon landings were staged.

Dragonpol

00Ed wrote:

The previous posters are correct that the choppers in DAF are a display of then-current military technology, not necessarily a deliberate reference to the Vietnam War.

It should be noted, however, that the US Army's emphasis on helicopter mobility in the 1960s and '70s was largely a response to the challenges of combat in Southeast Asia. The Little Birds and Huey Gunships seen in DAF were actually being used in Vietnam at the time that the film was in theaters.

BTW, Vietnam is no longer regarded as America's longest war. The ongoing conflict in Afghanistan has surpassed it.

Thank you for your contribution, @00Ed. Much appreciated. And yes, that was what I meant in the OP there about the Vietnam War references, although you've worded it much more eloquently that I did! I guess it was just the helicopter technology of the time (the early 1970s) rather than being an overt refverence to the Vietnam War. On it being the longest war the United States was involved in, did you know that the Vietnam War was classed as having started in 1955 nowadays? I think this is the time when the United States became "involved" in whatever way.

Dragonpol

GeorgeLazenby wrote:

No but I've always wondered if they were trying to joke about the idea that the moon landings were staged.

On which, @GeorgeLazenby, see these fascinating You Tube videos:



My own The Bondologist Blog article even gets a mention in the notes below the first video:

http://thebondologistblog.blogspot.co.uk/2012/08/arthur-c-clarkes-mysterious-involement.html

00Ed

Dragonpol wrote:

. On it being the longest war the United States was involved in, did you know that the Vietnam War was classed as having started in 1955 nowadays? I think this is the time when the United States became "involved" in whatever way.

Yeah, it does depend on the starting point. Eisenhower sent the first American military advisers to South Vietnam in the mid-1950s, and Kennedy doubled down on Ike's strategy in the early '60s. The way I've always understood it, however, the length of America's war in Vietnam is usually counted from the initiation of major combat operations by the U.S. Army, which occurred under Johnson in 1965.

TheWizardOfIce

00Ed wrote:

Dragonpol wrote:

. On it being the longest war the United States was involved in, did you know that the Vietnam War was classed as having started in 1955 nowadays? I think this is the time when the United States became "involved" in whatever way.

Yeah, it does depend on the starting point. Eisenhower sent the first American military advisers to South Vietnam in the mid-1950s, and Kennedy doubled down on Ike's strategy in the early '60s. The way I've always understood it, however, the length of America's war in Vietnam is usually counted from the initiation of major combat operations by the U.S. Army, which occurred under Johnson in 1965.

Well isn't the Korean War technically still ongoing? And that started in 1950.

Dragonpol

TheWizardOfIce wrote:

00Ed wrote:

Dragonpol wrote:

. On it being the longest war the United States was involved in, did you know that the Vietnam War was classed as having started in 1955 nowadays? I think this is the time when the United States became "involved" in whatever way.

Yeah, it does depend on the starting point. Eisenhower sent the first American military advisers to South Vietnam in the mid-1950s, and Kennedy doubled down on Ike's strategy in the early '60s. The way I've always understood it, however, the length of America's war in Vietnam is usually counted from the initiation of major combat operations by the U.S. Army, which occurred under Johnson in 1965.

Well isn't the Korean War technically still ongoing? And that started in 1950.

Yes, that's correct as both sides never signed a Peace Treaty to formally end the war, although hostilities ended in 1953.

timmer

The DAF Moon Landing Hoax vid posted above is great fun - tying in Fleming, his books, DAF the film, with moon-landing hoax conspiracy yarns. According to that video Fleming was quite a Master-of-Deception Intelligence operative.
Also MR and DN books were based on Flemings secret knowledge of enemy rocket-science operations. Neato. According to the vid.
What makes the world of James Bond so fascinating - how much is based on real events, real technology etc. Pushing the boundaries of fiction vs reality. Great fodder for the conspiracy buffs.

PrinceKamalKhan

00Ed wrote:

Dragonpol wrote:

. On it being the longest war the United States was involved in, did you know that the Vietnam War was classed as having started in 1955 nowadays? I think this is the time when the United States became "involved" in whatever way.

Yeah, it does depend on the starting point. Eisenhower sent the first American military advisers to South Vietnam in the mid-1950s, and Kennedy doubled down on Ike's strategy in the early '60s. The way I've always understood it, however, the length of America's war in Vietnam is usually counted from the initiation of major combat operations by the U.S. Army, which occurred under Johnson in 1965.

And prior to any of that, the U.S. was sending aid to the French during the Truman Administration.

Perilagu_Khan wrote:

Soundofthesinners wrote:

I don't think it was specifically a reference to Vietnam, just modern US technology. There were obviously references to the Cold War in general, just not 'Nam itself.

Agreed. I picked up on no Vietnam reverences whatsoever. Bond films tend to be fairly apolitical, and DAF was as apolitical as they come.

Agreed, PK. And that's one of DAF's charms IMHO. The closest the 1971 Bond film came to Vietnam was the offscreen dating relationship of "Tiffany Case" and the National Security Advisor/Secretary of State:



I bet those two had some fascinating conversations.

timmer

What did she see in him?! Aarggh.

Dragonpol

I never knew Henry Kissinger and Jill St. John were an item! What did she see in him? Power. Pure and simple, @timmer. The same thing with Miss Lewinsky and Bill Clinton.

timmer

I think what Jill might have seen in Hank, was his big brain. She is known not only for her curvy figure but also for her very high IQ. Hank might have appealed to her intellectual pretensions.
She's a much more natural fit with Robert Wagner I think.

PrinceKamalKhan

timmer wrote:

I think what Jill might have seen in Hank, was his big brain. She is known not only for her curvy figure but also for her very high IQ. Hank might have appealed to her intellectual pretensions.

Jill is very bright. When Maryam "Kara Milovy" d'Abo interviews her in Bond Girls Are Forever, I think she comes across as the smartest of the Bond girls in that documentary.

timmer wrote:

She's a much more natural fit with Robert Wagner I think.

Agreed.

Perilagu_Khan

Jill and Henry are both Jewish, so there's that tie-in as well.

Dragonpol

Perilagu_Khan wrote:

Jill and Henry are both Jewish, so there's that tie-in as well.

Thisd thread has been chock-full with interesting revelations!

timmer

From wiki:
Jill St. John (born Jill Arlyn Oppenheim on August 19, 1940) is an American actress. She is best known for her role as Tiffany Case, the Bond girl in Diamonds Are Forever (1971).

Love that wiki considers DAF as her "best known" role. These Bond-girl roles do stand the test of time.
Yes, forever immortalized as Tiffany Case. I also very much like her work as Molly, the Riddlers gangster moll (Molly get it ;) ) from the first Batman TV episode 1966. Fine work. Forshadowed her Tiffany Case role. Similar characters.

She was a real golddigger with her first two marriages. Married and divorced two very wealthy heirs.
Looks like she sure knew how to use her feminine wiles, natural smarts and obvious physical attributes to wrap virtually any guy around her finger.


St. John has been married four times:
Neil Dubin (May 12, 1957 - July 3, 1958) (divorced) Dubin was heir to a linen fortune. He was 22 while St. John was only 16 when they eloped in Yuma, Arizona. St. John complained that Dubin harassed and ridiculed her.[2]
Lance Reventlow (March 24, 1960 - October 30, 1963) (divorced) Reventlow was the son of Barbara Hutton, heir to the F. W. Woolworth fortune. Reventlow died in a plane crash in 1972. Despite their divorce and subsequent re-marriages, St. John refers to Reventlow as "my late husband" in interviews.

Perilagu_Khan

Reventelow was also an F1 driver.

Soundofthesinners

It's probably true that Tiffany Case was her most famous role, since I honestly couldn't name a single other role that she's had.

PrinceKamalKhan

Here's Jill on "What's My Line"



They mention how she went with Bob Hope on one of his Christmas USO tours to entertain the troops in Vietnam so I guess you can say that could be another DAF connection.

timmer

Perilagu_Khan wrote:

Reventelow was also an F1 driver.

She sure traveled in fast circles. Brains and beauty. This woman has led a charmed life.


Great video (whats my line). Panelist got it when she was exposed as a red head. That narrowed things down.It would be fun to revive that show. Very watchable.

Dragonpol

timmer wrote:

Perilagu_Khan wrote:

Reventelow was also an F1 driver.

She sure traveled in fast circles. Brains and beauty. This woman has led a charmed life.


Great video (whats my line). Panelist got it when she was exposed as a red head. That narrowed things down.It would be fun to revive that show. Very watchable.

Yes, she is very clever and classy. It's just a real shame that the writers of DAF elected to make her such a bimbo in the third act of the film. It's almost as if someone else entirely finished the film, for heaven's sake!

Perilagu_Khan

timmer wrote:

Perilagu_Khan wrote:

Reventelow was also an F1 driver.

She sure traveled in fast circles. Brains and beauty. This woman has led a charmed life.


Great video (whats my line). Panelist got it when she was exposed as a red head. That narrowed things down.It would be fun to revive that show. Very watchable.

Ho! So to speak. :)